Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [SACC-L] not complicated

Expand Messages
  • anthropmor@AOL.COM
    there is another qoute, from Douglas Adams, which I like- any technology that comes along before you are 5 years old is simple and basic- anything that comes
    Message 1 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
      there is another qoute, from Douglas Adams, which I like- any
      technology that comes along before you are 5 years old is simple and
      basic- anything that comes long when you are between the age of 15 and
      25 is cutting edge and excellent- and you can probably have a career in
      it. Any technology that comes along after you're 35 is unnatural and
      inconvenient.

      Mike Pavlik
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Lynch, Brian M <blynch@...>
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:31 pm
      Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated






      I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's "innovation"
      (becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his quotes
      around the idea of innovation and change. One was:

      "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read.
      It will be the person who does not know how to learn." (unfortunately
      the sources were not provided)

      Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-Brown,,,,

      -----Original Message-----
      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of anthropmor@...
      Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated


      argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better
      tool for communciation than SACC-L.

      For short form only.
      Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
      Mike Pavlik

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated

      It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's life
      more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
      Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation than
      SACC-L.

      Bob

      >>> "kent morris" <km52@...> 10/08/09 2:37 PM >>>
      or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler instead
      of
      more complicated...
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...>
      To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
      Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi

      > From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
      >
      > @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
      > http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
      masters)
      >
      > Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
      Twitter-speak,
      > now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
      > Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
      Ardipithecus, and
      > apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
      >
      > Bob
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Find out more at our web page
      :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
      > Groups Links
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • kent morris
      regardless if one can learn it or not, one has to perceive that the new technology will make a net positive, meaningful contribution to one s life; otherwise,
      Message 2 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
        regardless if one can learn it or not, one has to perceive that the new
        technology will make a net positive, meaningful contribution to one's life;
        otherwise, what's the point? Then, it can only complicate things...
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
        To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:11 PM
        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated


        > Not sure what "simplicity" one might be looking for, but it seems that
        > Tapscott was on to something in his "Growing up Digital" when he talked
        > about the different approach to change reflected in younger and older
        > learners. The younger, he suggests, tend to "adopt" new
        > technologies--exploring and experimenting with them (like when we
        > play!--and again, here, is a natural link to Pappert's work as well); the
        > older learners tend to adapt new technologies-- thinking of them through
        > the tools and uses with which they are already familiar. (Many examples
        > might come to mind where older tech "newbies" humorously attempt to get
        > technologies to do things they think are familiar, like using the mouse as
        > a foot pedal,like on a sewing machine, or using the cd drive as a cup
        > holder etc.)
        >
        > Rather than idealizing the "digital generation" (or overly caricaturing
        > the "older generation") the "adapt" "adopt" comparison itself is pretty
        > useful it seems. Especially when (it seems too) that change is now a
        > given.
        >
        > Put in other terms, Open Office might not be any simpler than Office 2003
        > (Office Vista might not be any simpler than Office 2003) etc. but what is
        > key is the ability not to necessarily know one or the other inside and
        > out, but knowing how to learn it, how to learn how to learn it, how to
        > learn the resources that can help one learn it etc.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of kent morris
        > Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 7:46 PM
        > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
        >
        > so simplicity is all just relative to future innovation...
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
        > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:31 PM
        > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
        >
        >
        >>I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's "innovation"
        >>(becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his quotes
        >>around the idea of innovation and change. One was:
        >>
        >> "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read. It
        >> will be the person who does not know how to learn." (unfortunately the
        >> sources were not provided)
        >>
        >> Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-Brown,,,,
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of anthropmor@...
        >> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
        >> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better
        >> tool for communciation than SACC-L.
        >>
        >> For short form only.
        >> Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
        >> Mike Pavlik
        >>
        >>
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
        >> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        >> Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
        >> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's life
        >> more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
        >> Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation than
        >> SACC-L.
        >>
        >> Bob
        >>
        >>>>> "kent morris" <km52@...> 10/08/09 2:37 PM >>>
        >> or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler instead
        >> of
        >> more complicated...
        >> ----- Original Message -----
        >> From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...>
        >> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
        >> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
        >> Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi
        >>
        >>> From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
        >>>
        >>> @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
        >>> http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
        >> masters)
        >>>
        >>> Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
        >> Twitter-speak,
        >>> now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
        >>> Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
        >> Ardipithecus, and
        >>> apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
        >>>
        >>> Bob
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> ------------------------------------
        >>>
        >>> Find out more at our web page
        >> :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
        >>> Groups Links
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> ------------------------------------
        >>
        >> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
        >> Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
        > Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • kent morris
        there are gobs of examples of people from all walks and stations in life--even in the face of social pressure--who could not perceive the positive contribution
        Message 3 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
          there are gobs of examples of people from all walks and stations in
          life--even in the face of social pressure--who could not perceive the
          positive contribution a given technology would make in their lives and/or in
          the world, even though they could easily learn it...
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "kent morris" <km52@...>
          To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:48 AM
          Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated


          > regardless if one can learn it or not, one has to perceive that the new
          > technology will make a net positive, meaningful contribution to one's
          > life;
          > otherwise, what's the point? Then, it can only complicate things...
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
          > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:11 PM
          > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
          >
          >
          >> Not sure what "simplicity" one might be looking for, but it seems that
          >> Tapscott was on to something in his "Growing up Digital" when he talked
          >> about the different approach to change reflected in younger and older
          >> learners. The younger, he suggests, tend to "adopt" new
          >> technologies--exploring and experimenting with them (like when we
          >> play!--and again, here, is a natural link to Pappert's work as well); the
          >> older learners tend to adapt new technologies-- thinking of them through
          >> the tools and uses with which they are already familiar. (Many examples
          >> might come to mind where older tech "newbies" humorously attempt to get
          >> technologies to do things they think are familiar, like using the mouse
          >> as
          >> a foot pedal,like on a sewing machine, or using the cd drive as a cup
          >> holder etc.)
          >>
          >> Rather than idealizing the "digital generation" (or overly caricaturing
          >> the "older generation") the "adapt" "adopt" comparison itself is pretty
          >> useful it seems. Especially when (it seems too) that change is now a
          >> given.
          >>
          >> Put in other terms, Open Office might not be any simpler than Office 2003
          >> (Office Vista might not be any simpler than Office 2003) etc. but what
          >> is
          >> key is the ability not to necessarily know one or the other inside and
          >> out, but knowing how to learn it, how to learn how to learn it, how to
          >> learn the resources that can help one learn it etc.
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> -----Original Message-----
          >> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of kent morris
          >> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 7:46 PM
          >> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
          >> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
          >>
          >> so simplicity is all just relative to future innovation...
          >> ----- Original Message -----
          >> From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
          >> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
          >> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:31 PM
          >> Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
          >>
          >>
          >>>I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's "innovation"
          >>>(becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his quotes
          >>>around the idea of innovation and change. One was:
          >>>
          >>> "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read. It
          >>> will be the person who does not know how to learn." (unfortunately the
          >>> sources were not provided)
          >>>
          >>> Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-Brown,,,,
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> -----Original Message-----
          >>> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of anthropmor@...
          >>> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
          >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
          >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better
          >>> tool for communciation than SACC-L.
          >>>
          >>> For short form only.
          >>> Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
          >>> Mike Pavlik
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> -----Original Message-----
          >>> From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
          >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
          >>> Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
          >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's life
          >>> more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
          >>> Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation than
          >>> SACC-L.
          >>>
          >>> Bob
          >>>
          >>>>>> "kent morris" <km52@...> 10/08/09 2:37 PM >>>
          >>> or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler instead
          >>> of
          >>> more complicated...
          >>> ----- Original Message -----
          >>> From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...>
          >>> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
          >>> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
          >>> Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi
          >>>
          >>>> From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
          >>>>
          >>>> @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
          >>>> http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
          >>> masters)
          >>>>
          >>>> Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
          >>> Twitter-speak,
          >>>> now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
          >>>> Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
          >>> Ardipithecus, and
          >>>> apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
          >>>>
          >>>> Bob
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>> ------------------------------------
          >>>>
          >>>> Find out more at our web page
          >>> :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
          >>>> Groups Links
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> ------------------------------------
          >>>
          >>> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
          >>> Groups Links
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
          >> Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
          > Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Lloyd Miller
          OMG, a crack in the facade? I read this morning that Miley Cyrus has quit Twitter, leaving 1.1 million fans with their panties in a bundle! However, those of
          Message 4 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
            OMG, a crack in the facade? I read this morning that Miley Cyrus has
            quit Twitter, leaving 1.1 million fans with their panties in a
            bundle! However, those of you for whom this is important may join a
            newly organized "mileycomeback" movement on the Twitter site.
            However, if Miley's no longer there, I'm discouraged from joining...
            Lloyd



            On Oct 9, 2009, at 9:06 AM, kent morris wrote:

            > there are gobs of examples of people from all walks and stations in
            > life--even in the face of social pressure--who could not perceive the
            > positive contribution a given technology would make in their lives
            > and/or in
            > the world, even though they could easily learn it...
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "kent morris" <km52@...>
            > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:48 AM
            > Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
            >
            > > regardless if one can learn it or not, one has to perceive that
            > the new
            > > technology will make a net positive, meaningful contribution to
            > one's
            > > life;
            > > otherwise, what's the point? Then, it can only complicate things...
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
            > > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:11 PM
            > > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
            > >
            > >
            > >> Not sure what "simplicity" one might be looking for, but it seems
            > that
            > >> Tapscott was on to something in his "Growing up Digital" when he
            > talked
            > >> about the different approach to change reflected in younger and
            > older
            > >> learners. The younger, he suggests, tend to "adopt" new
            > >> technologies--exploring and experimenting with them (like when we
            > >> play!--and again, here, is a natural link to Pappert's work as
            > well); the
            > >> older learners tend to adapt new technologies-- thinking of them
            > through
            > >> the tools and uses with which they are already familiar. (Many
            > examples
            > >> might come to mind where older tech "newbies" humorously attempt
            > to get
            > >> technologies to do things they think are familiar, like using the
            > mouse
            > >> as
            > >> a foot pedal,like on a sewing machine, or using the cd drive as a
            > cup
            > >> holder etc.)
            > >>
            > >> Rather than idealizing the "digital generation" (or overly
            > caricaturing
            > >> the "older generation") the "adapt" "adopt" comparison itself is
            > pretty
            > >> useful it seems. Especially when (it seems too) that change is
            > now a
            > >> given.
            > >>
            > >> Put in other terms, Open Office might not be any simpler than
            > Office 2003
            > >> (Office Vista might not be any simpler than Office 2003) etc. but
            > what
            > >> is
            > >> key is the ability not to necessarily know one or the other
            > inside and
            > >> out, but knowing how to learn it, how to learn how to learn it,
            > how to
            > >> learn the resources that can help one learn it etc.
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> -----Original Message-----
            > >> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of kent morris
            > >> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 7:46 PM
            > >> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            > >> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
            > >>
            > >> so simplicity is all just relative to future innovation...
            > >> ----- Original Message -----
            > >> From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
            > >> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
            > >> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:31 PM
            > >> Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>>I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's
            > "innovation"
            > >>>(becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his
            > quotes
            > >>>around the idea of innovation and change. One was:
            > >>>
            > >>> "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot
            > read. It
            > >>> will be the person who does not know how to
            > learn." (unfortunately the
            > >>> sources were not provided)
            > >>>
            > >>> Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-
            > Brown,,,,
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>> -----Original Message-----
            > >>> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of anthropmor@...
            > >>> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
            > >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            > >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>> argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a
            > better
            > >>> tool for communciation than SACC-L.
            > >>>
            > >>> For short form only.
            > >>> Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
            > >>> Mike Pavlik
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>> -----Original Message-----
            > >>> From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
            > >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            > >>> Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
            > >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>> It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's
            > life
            > >>> more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
            > >>> Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation
            > than
            > >>> SACC-L.
            > >>>
            > >>> Bob
            > >>>
            > >>>>>> "kent morris" <km52@...> 10/08/09 2:37 PM >>>
            > >>> or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler
            > instead
            > >>> of
            > >>> more complicated...
            > >>> ----- Original Message -----
            > >>> From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...>
            > >>> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
            > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
            > >>> Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi
            > >>>
            > >>>> From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
            > >>>>
            > >>>> @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
            > >>>> http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
            > >>> masters)
            > >>>>
            > >>>> Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
            > >>> Twitter-speak,
            > >>>> now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
            > >>>> Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
            > >>> Ardipithecus, and
            > >>>> apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
            > >>>>
            > >>>> Bob
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>> ------------------------------------
            > >>>>
            > >>>> Find out more at our web page
            > >>> :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
            > >>>> Groups Links
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>> ------------------------------------
            > >>>
            > >>> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
            > >>> Groups Links
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> ------------------------------------
            > >>
            > >> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
            > >> Groups Links
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
            > > Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • tadmci
            I find this thread really interesting - partly because I ve given up promoting the use of facebook and twitter among my colleagues. I see the advantages - and
            Message 5 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
              I find this thread really interesting - partly because I've given up promoting the use of facebook and twitter among my colleagues. I see the advantages - and so do many of my 'online colleagues' like you - but I sense that people are getting sick of my trying to encourage these technologies. I think it was the comment "Oh, you mean I'd have to go to another website [to use twitter]" that brought this home.

              Let me add to the discussion. A recent CBC.ca editorial argued that we need to get computers out of the classroom because student learning is suffering from their use. While I'm not sure I agree with that point, there are other really interesting ideas raised in the piece.

              (You can access the article here: http://ow.ly/sYEC - In case that doesn't work, I'll retweet the link with a SACC_L hashtag.)

              The editorial argues that students aren't learning 'proper' research skills because an over reliance on computers. Sure, that's possible. Depends on what you're researching, I suppose.

              But, the secondary discussions are more interesting to me. The editorial argues that young people aren't "more technologically savvy" and that older users know how to use technology "in the real world."

              The author writes:

              "My generation needs to stop paying lip service to the idea that young people today are inherently more technologically savvy. Perhaps that was the case 20 years ago but the gap, if it still exists, is closing rapidly.

              Sure, when it comes to downloading music or playing video games, my students can beat me hands down. So what?

              The only useful skill I see coming from that is possibly a higher degree of manual dexterity around the keyboard and not much else.

              But will a teen enthusiastically take up a new form of computer hardware or software unless it either entertains them or in some way simplifies their work process?"

              I think some of this follows what Brian Lynch has noted below. And, it reminds me that people learn what they need to learn, or want to learn - computer skills included. I suspect those young tech savvy people who don't know how to research online can and will learn to do so when they see the need for it, whether in a class or in the business world. Likewise, if I wanted to download music, or play a multiplayer online game, I presume I could figure out how to do it.

              Tad





              --- In SACC-L@yahoogroups.com, "kent morris" <km52@...> wrote:
              >
              > there are gobs of examples of people from all walks and stations in
              > life--even in the face of social pressure--who could not perceive the
              > positive contribution a given technology would make in their lives and/or in
              > the world, even though they could easily learn it...
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "kent morris" <km52@...>
              > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:48 AM
              > Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
              >
              >
              > > regardless if one can learn it or not, one has to perceive that the new
              > > technology will make a net positive, meaningful contribution to one's
              > > life;
              > > otherwise, what's the point? Then, it can only complicate things...
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
              > > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:11 PM
              > > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
              > >
              > >
              > >> Not sure what "simplicity" one might be looking for, but it seems that
              > >> Tapscott was on to something in his "Growing up Digital" when he talked
              > >> about the different approach to change reflected in younger and older
              > >> learners. The younger, he suggests, tend to "adopt" new
              > >> technologies--exploring and experimenting with them (like when we
              > >> play!--and again, here, is a natural link to Pappert's work as well); the
              > >> older learners tend to adapt new technologies-- thinking of them through
              > >> the tools and uses with which they are already familiar. (Many examples
              > >> might come to mind where older tech "newbies" humorously attempt to get
              > >> technologies to do things they think are familiar, like using the mouse
              > >> as
              > >> a foot pedal,like on a sewing machine, or using the cd drive as a cup
              > >> holder etc.)
              > >>
              > >> Rather than idealizing the "digital generation" (or overly caricaturing
              > >> the "older generation") the "adapt" "adopt" comparison itself is pretty
              > >> useful it seems. Especially when (it seems too) that change is now a
              > >> given.
              > >>
              > >> Put in other terms, Open Office might not be any simpler than Office 2003
              > >> (Office Vista might not be any simpler than Office 2003) etc. but what
              > >> is
              > >> key is the ability not to necessarily know one or the other inside and
              > >> out, but knowing how to learn it, how to learn how to learn it, how to
              > >> learn the resources that can help one learn it etc.
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> -----Original Message-----
              > >> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of kent morris
              > >> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 7:46 PM
              > >> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              > >> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
              > >>
              > >> so simplicity is all just relative to future innovation...
              > >> ----- Original Message -----
              > >> From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
              > >> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
              > >> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:31 PM
              > >> Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>>I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's "innovation"
              > >>>(becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his quotes
              > >>>around the idea of innovation and change. One was:
              > >>>
              > >>> "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read. It
              > >>> will be the person who does not know how to learn." (unfortunately the
              > >>> sources were not provided)
              > >>>
              > >>> Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-Brown,,,,
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> -----Original Message-----
              > >>> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of anthropmor@...
              > >>> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
              > >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              > >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better
              > >>> tool for communciation than SACC-L.
              > >>>
              > >>> For short form only.
              > >>> Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
              > >>> Mike Pavlik
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> -----Original Message-----
              > >>> From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
              > >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              > >>> Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
              > >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's life
              > >>> more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
              > >>> Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation than
              > >>> SACC-L.
              > >>>
              > >>> Bob
              > >>>
              > >>>>>> "kent morris" <km52@...> 10/08/09 2:37 PM >>>
              > >>> or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler instead
              > >>> of
              > >>> more complicated...
              > >>> ----- Original Message -----
              > >>> From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...>
              > >>> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
              > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
              > >>> Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi
              > >>>
              > >>>> From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
              > >>>>
              > >>>> @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
              > >>>> http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
              > >>> masters)
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
              > >>> Twitter-speak,
              > >>>> now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
              > >>>> Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
              > >>> Ardipithecus, and
              > >>>> apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Bob
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>> ------------------------------------
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Find out more at our web page
              > >>> :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
              > >>>> Groups Links
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> ------------------------------------
              > >>>
              > >>> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
              > >>> Groups Links
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> ------------------------------------
              > >>
              > >> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
              > >> Groups Links
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
              > > Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Lynch, Brian M
              Thanks! I wondered when he said that, so I looked it up and found a page from 1999! http://www.douglasadams.com/dna/19990901-00-a.html I have a hunch that the
              Message 6 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
                Thanks!

                I wondered when he said that, so I looked it up and found a page from 1999!

                http://www.douglasadams.com/dna/19990901-00-a.html

                I have a hunch that the time spans have shrunk in the mean time!

                Brian




                -----Original Message-----
                From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of anthropmor@...
                Sent: Fri 10/9/2009 9:13 AM
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated


                there is another qoute, from Douglas Adams, which I like- any
                technology that comes along before you are 5 years old is simple and
                basic- anything that comes long when you are between the age of 15 and
                25 is cutting edge and excellent- and you can probably have a career in
                it. Any technology that comes along after you're 35 is unnatural and
                inconvenient.

                Mike Pavlik
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Lynch, Brian M <blynch@...>
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:31 pm
                Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated






                I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's "innovation"
                (becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his quotes
                around the idea of innovation and change. One was:

                "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read.
                It will be the person who does not know how to learn." (unfortunately
                the sources were not provided)

                Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-Brown,,,,

                -----Original Message-----
                From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of anthropmor@...
                Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated


                argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better
                tool for communciation than SACC-L.

                For short form only.
                Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
                Mike Pavlik

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
                To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
                Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated

                It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's life
                more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
                Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation than
                SACC-L.

                Bob

                >>> "kent morris" <km52@...> 10/08/09 2:37 PM >>>
                or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler instead
                of
                more complicated...
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...>
                To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
                Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi

                > From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
                >
                > @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
                > http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
                masters)
                >
                > Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
                Twitter-speak,
                > now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
                > Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
                Ardipithecus, and
                > apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
                >
                > Bob
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Find out more at our web page
                :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                > Groups Links
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lynch, Brian M
                Sometimes we end up learning things before we figure out their net positive, meaningful contribution to one s life. (I m sure when I played with building
                Message 7 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
                  Sometimes we end up learning things before we figure out their "net positive, meaningful contribution to one's life." (I'm sure when I played with building blocks and leggos, I played first, then figured out their net-positive, meaningful contribution to life" afterward. :) )

                  And in the current environment, many new developments (like Twitter) are like things that grow in their utility as we become more adept at using them-- their extended and potential functions may seem totally unobvious to us up from, making them seem maybe very trivial if not pointless-- with suspect net-positive value). Certainly not every bit of technology is going to be of great value, and it is likely that many of us will learn lots of dross that will be quickly forgotten, before we settle in things that have some deeper value.

                  But again, in all of this, the things that seem to be most lasting today--of lasting value-- are not the bits and tools themselves, but our skill and ability to learn and/or navigate through them, not to fetishize them but to learn to relate to them in a fluid and dynamic mode of change. I keep thinking here, again, of the skateboarder, whose skill isn't just in balancing on a board on a steady surface, but especially in scanning the landscape and imagining new uses for old familiar surfaces (or new uses for new surfaces)... new surfaces that are discontinuous, changing, and demanding of almost 3 dimensional adaptive skill.

                  Brian


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of kent morris
                  Sent: Fri 10/9/2009 9:48 AM
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated

                  regardless if one can learn it or not, one has to perceive that the new
                  technology will make a net positive, meaningful contribution to one's life;
                  otherwise, what's the point? Then, it can only complicate things...
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
                  To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:11 PM
                  Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated


                  > Not sure what "simplicity" one might be looking for, but it seems that
                  > Tapscott was on to something in his "Growing up Digital" when he talked
                  > about the different approach to change reflected in younger and older
                  > learners. The younger, he suggests, tend to "adopt" new
                  > technologies--exploring and experimenting with them (like when we
                  > play!--and again, here, is a natural link to Pappert's work as well); the
                  > older learners tend to adapt new technologies-- thinking of them through
                  > the tools and uses with which they are already familiar. (Many examples
                  > might come to mind where older tech "newbies" humorously attempt to get
                  > technologies to do things they think are familiar, like using the mouse as
                  > a foot pedal,like on a sewing machine, or using the cd drive as a cup
                  > holder etc.)
                  >
                  > Rather than idealizing the "digital generation" (or overly caricaturing
                  > the "older generation") the "adapt" "adopt" comparison itself is pretty
                  > useful it seems. Especially when (it seems too) that change is now a
                  > given.
                  >
                  > Put in other terms, Open Office might not be any simpler than Office 2003
                  > (Office Vista might not be any simpler than Office 2003) etc. but what is
                  > key is the ability not to necessarily know one or the other inside and
                  > out, but knowing how to learn it, how to learn how to learn it, how to
                  > learn the resources that can help one learn it etc.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of kent morris
                  > Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 7:46 PM
                  > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                  >
                  > so simplicity is all just relative to future innovation...
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
                  > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:31 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
                  >
                  >
                  >>I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's "innovation"
                  >>(becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his quotes
                  >>around the idea of innovation and change. One was:
                  >>
                  >> "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read. It
                  >> will be the person who does not know how to learn." (unfortunately the
                  >> sources were not provided)
                  >>
                  >> Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-Brown,,,,
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -----Original Message-----
                  >> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of anthropmor@...
                  >> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
                  >> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  >> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better
                  >> tool for communciation than SACC-L.
                  >>
                  >> For short form only.
                  >> Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
                  >> Mike Pavlik
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> -----Original Message-----
                  >> From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
                  >> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  >> Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
                  >> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's life
                  >> more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
                  >> Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation than
                  >> SACC-L.
                  >>
                  >> Bob
                  >>
                  >>>>> "kent morris" <km52@...> 10/08/09 2:37 PM >>>
                  >> or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler instead
                  >> of
                  >> more complicated...
                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                  >> From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...>
                  >> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                  >> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
                  >> Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi
                  >>
                  >>> From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
                  >>>
                  >>> @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
                  >>> http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
                  >> masters)
                  >>>
                  >>> Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
                  >> Twitter-speak,
                  >>> now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
                  >>> Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
                  >> Ardipithecus, and
                  >>> apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
                  >>>
                  >>> Bob
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> ------------------------------------
                  >>>
                  >>> Find out more at our web page
                  >> :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                  >>> Groups Links
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------------------
                  >>
                  >> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                  >> Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                  > Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Lynch, Brian M
                  Sure. Not every technological development is going to have positive potential-- for individuals, or at times for the majority of us. Whether this is as a
                  Message 8 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
                    Sure. Not every technological development is going to have positive potential-- for individuals, or at times for the majority of us. Whether this is as a result of the specific developments themselves, or of people's imaginations... is another set of questions.

                    Not sure what you are getting at though...




                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of kent morris
                    Sent: Fri 10/9/2009 10:06 AM
                    To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated

                    there are gobs of examples of people from all walks and stations in
                    life--even in the face of social pressure--who could not perceive the
                    positive contribution a given technology would make in their lives and/or in
                    the world, even though they could easily learn it...
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "kent morris" <km52@...>
                    To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:48 AM
                    Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated


                    > regardless if one can learn it or not, one has to perceive that the new
                    > technology will make a net positive, meaningful contribution to one's
                    > life;
                    > otherwise, what's the point? Then, it can only complicate things...
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
                    > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:11 PM
                    > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
                    >
                    >
                    >> Not sure what "simplicity" one might be looking for, but it seems that
                    >> Tapscott was on to something in his "Growing up Digital" when he talked
                    >> about the different approach to change reflected in younger and older
                    >> learners. The younger, he suggests, tend to "adopt" new
                    >> technologies--exploring and experimenting with them (like when we
                    >> play!--and again, here, is a natural link to Pappert's work as well); the
                    >> older learners tend to adapt new technologies-- thinking of them through
                    >> the tools and uses with which they are already familiar. (Many examples
                    >> might come to mind where older tech "newbies" humorously attempt to get
                    >> technologies to do things they think are familiar, like using the mouse
                    >> as
                    >> a foot pedal,like on a sewing machine, or using the cd drive as a cup
                    >> holder etc.)
                    >>
                    >> Rather than idealizing the "digital generation" (or overly caricaturing
                    >> the "older generation") the "adapt" "adopt" comparison itself is pretty
                    >> useful it seems. Especially when (it seems too) that change is now a
                    >> given.
                    >>
                    >> Put in other terms, Open Office might not be any simpler than Office 2003
                    >> (Office Vista might not be any simpler than Office 2003) etc. but what
                    >> is
                    >> key is the ability not to necessarily know one or the other inside and
                    >> out, but knowing how to learn it, how to learn how to learn it, how to
                    >> learn the resources that can help one learn it etc.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> -----Original Message-----
                    >> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of kent morris
                    >> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 7:46 PM
                    >> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                    >>
                    >> so simplicity is all just relative to future innovation...
                    >> ----- Original Message -----
                    >> From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
                    >> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                    >> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:31 PM
                    >> Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>>I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's "innovation"
                    >>>(becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his quotes
                    >>>around the idea of innovation and change. One was:
                    >>>
                    >>> "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read. It
                    >>> will be the person who does not know how to learn." (unfortunately the
                    >>> sources were not provided)
                    >>>
                    >>> Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-Brown,,,,
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> -----Original Message-----
                    >>> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of anthropmor@...
                    >>> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
                    >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                    >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better
                    >>> tool for communciation than SACC-L.
                    >>>
                    >>> For short form only.
                    >>> Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
                    >>> Mike Pavlik
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> -----Original Message-----
                    >>> From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
                    >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                    >>> Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
                    >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's life
                    >>> more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
                    >>> Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation than
                    >>> SACC-L.
                    >>>
                    >>> Bob
                    >>>
                    >>>>>> "kent morris" <km52@...> 10/08/09 2:37 PM >>>
                    >>> or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler instead
                    >>> of
                    >>> more complicated...
                    >>> ----- Original Message -----
                    >>> From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...>
                    >>> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                    >>> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
                    >>> Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi
                    >>>
                    >>>> From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
                    >>>>
                    >>>> @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
                    >>>> http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
                    >>> masters)
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
                    >>> Twitter-speak,
                    >>>> now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
                    >>>> Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
                    >>> Ardipithecus, and
                    >>>> apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Bob
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>> ------------------------------------
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Find out more at our web page
                    >>> :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                    >>>> Groups Links
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> ------------------------------------
                    >>>
                    >>> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                    >>> Groups Links
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> ------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                    >> Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                    > Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Lynch, Brian M
                    LLoyd, I don t know how I missed this! Thanks for the alert! Brian :) ... From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lloyd Miller Sent: Fri 10/9/2009 1:17 PM
                    Message 9 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
                      LLoyd, I don't know how I missed this! Thanks for the alert!


                      Brian :)

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Lloyd Miller
                      Sent: Fri 10/9/2009 1:17 PM
                      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated

                      OMG, a crack in the facade? I read this morning that Miley Cyrus has
                      quit Twitter, leaving 1.1 million fans with their panties in a
                      bundle! However, those of you for whom this is important may join a
                      newly organized "mileycomeback" movement on the Twitter site.
                      However, if Miley's no longer there, I'm discouraged from joining...
                      Lloyd



                      On Oct 9, 2009, at 9:06 AM, kent morris wrote:

                      > there are gobs of examples of people from all walks and stations in
                      > life--even in the face of social pressure--who could not perceive the
                      > positive contribution a given technology would make in their lives
                      > and/or in
                      > the world, even though they could easily learn it...
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "kent morris" <km52@...>
                      > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:48 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                      >
                      > > regardless if one can learn it or not, one has to perceive that
                      > the new
                      > > technology will make a net positive, meaningful contribution to
                      > one's
                      > > life;
                      > > otherwise, what's the point? Then, it can only complicate things...
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
                      > > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                      > > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:11 PM
                      > > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >> Not sure what "simplicity" one might be looking for, but it seems
                      > that
                      > >> Tapscott was on to something in his "Growing up Digital" when he
                      > talked
                      > >> about the different approach to change reflected in younger and
                      > older
                      > >> learners. The younger, he suggests, tend to "adopt" new
                      > >> technologies--exploring and experimenting with them (like when we
                      > >> play!--and again, here, is a natural link to Pappert's work as
                      > well); the
                      > >> older learners tend to adapt new technologies-- thinking of them
                      > through
                      > >> the tools and uses with which they are already familiar. (Many
                      > examples
                      > >> might come to mind where older tech "newbies" humorously attempt
                      > to get
                      > >> technologies to do things they think are familiar, like using the
                      > mouse
                      > >> as
                      > >> a foot pedal,like on a sewing machine, or using the cd drive as a
                      > cup
                      > >> holder etc.)
                      > >>
                      > >> Rather than idealizing the "digital generation" (or overly
                      > caricaturing
                      > >> the "older generation") the "adapt" "adopt" comparison itself is
                      > pretty
                      > >> useful it seems. Especially when (it seems too) that change is
                      > now a
                      > >> given.
                      > >>
                      > >> Put in other terms, Open Office might not be any simpler than
                      > Office 2003
                      > >> (Office Vista might not be any simpler than Office 2003) etc. but
                      > what
                      > >> is
                      > >> key is the ability not to necessarily know one or the other
                      > inside and
                      > >> out, but knowing how to learn it, how to learn how to learn it,
                      > how to
                      > >> learn the resources that can help one learn it etc.
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> -----Original Message-----
                      > >> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of kent morris
                      > >> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 7:46 PM
                      > >> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                      > >> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                      > >>
                      > >> so simplicity is all just relative to future innovation...
                      > >> ----- Original Message -----
                      > >> From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
                      > >> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                      > >> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:31 PM
                      > >> Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>>I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's
                      > "innovation"
                      > >>>(becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his
                      > quotes
                      > >>>around the idea of innovation and change. One was:
                      > >>>
                      > >>> "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot
                      > read. It
                      > >>> will be the person who does not know how to
                      > learn." (unfortunately the
                      > >>> sources were not provided)
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-
                      > Brown,,,,
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>> -----Original Message-----
                      > >>> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of anthropmor@...
                      > >>> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
                      > >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                      > >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>> argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a
                      > better
                      > >>> tool for communciation than SACC-L.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> For short form only.
                      > >>> Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
                      > >>> Mike Pavlik
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>> -----Original Message-----
                      > >>> From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
                      > >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                      > >>> Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
                      > >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>> It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's
                      > life
                      > >>> more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
                      > >>> Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation
                      > than
                      > >>> SACC-L.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Bob
                      > >>>
                      > >>>>>> "kent morris" <km52@...> 10/08/09 2:37 PM >>>
                      > >>> or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler
                      > instead
                      > >>> of
                      > >>> more complicated...
                      > >>> ----- Original Message -----
                      > >>> From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...>
                      > >>> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                      > >>> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
                      > >>> Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi
                      > >>>
                      > >>>> From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>> @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
                      > >>>> http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
                      > >>> masters)
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>> Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
                      > >>> Twitter-speak,
                      > >>>> now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
                      > >>>> Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
                      > >>> Ardipithecus, and
                      > >>>> apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>> Bob
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>> ------------------------------------
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>> Find out more at our web page
                      > >>> :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                      > >>>> Groups Links
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>> ------------------------------------
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                      > >>> Groups Links
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> ------------------------------------
                      > >>
                      > >> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                      > >> Groups Links
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                      > > Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • kent morris
                      that was the idea I was trying to get across when I originally responded or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler instead of more
                      Message 10 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
                        that was the idea I was trying to get across when I originally responded "or
                        you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler instead of more
                        complicated" to Bob's comment which sounded to me like a mild complaint
                        about all the new technology he now had to learn...
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
                        To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 12:09 PM
                        Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated


                        >
                        > Sure. Not every technological development is going to have positive
                        > potential-- for individuals, or at times for the majority of us. Whether
                        > this is as a result of the specific developments themselves, or of
                        > people's imaginations... is another set of questions.
                        >
                        > Not sure what you are getting at though...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of kent morris
                        > Sent: Fri 10/9/2009 10:06 AM
                        > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                        >
                        > there are gobs of examples of people from all walks and stations in
                        > life--even in the face of social pressure--who could not perceive the
                        > positive contribution a given technology would make in their lives and/or
                        > in
                        > the world, even though they could easily learn it...
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: "kent morris" <km52@...>
                        > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:48 AM
                        > Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                        >
                        >
                        >> regardless if one can learn it or not, one has to perceive that the new
                        >> technology will make a net positive, meaningful contribution to one's
                        >> life;
                        >> otherwise, what's the point? Then, it can only complicate things...
                        >> ----- Original Message -----
                        >> From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
                        >> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                        >> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:11 PM
                        >> Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>> Not sure what "simplicity" one might be looking for, but it seems that
                        >>> Tapscott was on to something in his "Growing up Digital" when he talked
                        >>> about the different approach to change reflected in younger and older
                        >>> learners. The younger, he suggests, tend to "adopt" new
                        >>> technologies--exploring and experimenting with them (like when we
                        >>> play!--and again, here, is a natural link to Pappert's work as well);
                        >>> the
                        >>> older learners tend to adapt new technologies-- thinking of them through
                        >>> the tools and uses with which they are already familiar. (Many examples
                        >>> might come to mind where older tech "newbies" humorously attempt to get
                        >>> technologies to do things they think are familiar, like using the mouse
                        >>> as
                        >>> a foot pedal,like on a sewing machine, or using the cd drive as a cup
                        >>> holder etc.)
                        >>>
                        >>> Rather than idealizing the "digital generation" (or overly caricaturing
                        >>> the "older generation") the "adapt" "adopt" comparison itself is pretty
                        >>> useful it seems. Especially when (it seems too) that change is now a
                        >>> given.
                        >>>
                        >>> Put in other terms, Open Office might not be any simpler than Office
                        >>> 2003
                        >>> (Office Vista might not be any simpler than Office 2003) etc. but what
                        >>> is
                        >>> key is the ability not to necessarily know one or the other inside and
                        >>> out, but knowing how to learn it, how to learn how to learn it, how to
                        >>> learn the resources that can help one learn it etc.
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> -----Original Message-----
                        >>> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of kent morris
                        >>> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 7:46 PM
                        >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                        >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                        >>>
                        >>> so simplicity is all just relative to future innovation...
                        >>> ----- Original Message -----
                        >>> From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
                        >>> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                        >>> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:31 PM
                        >>> Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's "innovation"
                        >>>>(becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his quotes
                        >>>>around the idea of innovation and change. One was:
                        >>>>
                        >>>> "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read.
                        >>>> It
                        >>>> will be the person who does not know how to learn." (unfortunately the
                        >>>> sources were not provided)
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-Brown,,,,
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> -----Original Message-----
                        >>>> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of anthropmor@...
                        >>>> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
                        >>>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better
                        >>>> tool for communciation than SACC-L.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> For short form only.
                        >>>> Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
                        >>>> Mike Pavlik
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> -----Original Message-----
                        >>>> From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
                        >>>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>> Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
                        >>>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's life
                        >>>> more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
                        >>>> Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation than
                        >>>> SACC-L.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Bob
                        >>>>
                        >>>>>>> "kent morris" <km52@...> 10/08/09 2:37 PM >>>
                        >>>> or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler instead
                        >>>> of
                        >>>> more complicated...
                        >>>> ----- Original Message -----
                        >>>> From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...>
                        >>>> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                        >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
                        >>>> Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi
                        >>>>
                        >>>>> From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
                        >>>>> http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
                        >>>> masters)
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
                        >>>> Twitter-speak,
                        >>>>> now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
                        >>>>> Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
                        >>>> Ardipithecus, and
                        >>>>> apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> Bob
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> ------------------------------------
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>> Find out more at our web page
                        >>>> :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                        >>>>> Groups Links
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> ------------------------------------
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                        >>>> Groups Links
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>> ------------------------------------
                        >>>
                        >>> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                        >>> Groups Links
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> ------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                        >> Groups Links
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                        > Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Deborah Shepherd
                        Yesterday, I saw a short video (copyright 2004) on the Zapotec. Part of the content concerned bringing computers and a computer instructor to a village where
                        Message 11 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
                          Yesterday, I saw a short video (copyright 2004) on the Zapotec. Part of the content concerned bringing computers and a computer instructor to a village where weaving for the global market is a big part of the economy. Point was made that the villagers realize they need to keep their designs current to interest new customers. The young children were taught to use Paint on the computers, and they began creating pictures which their parents wove into rugs! The children (as young as 6) claimed that drawing on the computer was easier than by hand because they could change the colors and the design easily without start over on a new piece of paper. Having used Paint myself and been very frustrated by how clumsy it is to control with a mouse, I found the idea of it being "easier" than using one's hands really amazing, but the children's pictures made impressive rugs.

                          The video is "Being Zapotec" from www.nationalfilmnetwork.com

                          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lynch, Brian M
                          Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 1:54 PM
                          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated



                          Thanks!

                          I wondered when he said that, so I looked it up and found a page from 1999!

                          http://www.douglasadams.com/dna/19990901-00-a.html

                          I have a hunch that the time spans have shrunk in the mean time!

                          Brian

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of anthropmor@...<mailto:anthropmor%40AOL.COM>
                          Sent: Fri 10/9/2009 9:13 AM
                          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated


                          there is another qoute, from Douglas Adams, which I like- any
                          technology that comes along before you are 5 years old is simple and
                          basic- anything that comes long when you are between the age of 15 and
                          25 is cutting edge and excellent- and you can probably have a career in
                          it. Any technology that comes along after you're 35 is unnatural and
                          inconvenient.

                          Mike Pavlik
                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Lynch, Brian M <blynch@...<mailto:blynch%40qvcc.commnet.edu>>
                          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:31 pm
                          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated

                          I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's "innovation"
                          (becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his quotes
                          around the idea of innovation and change. One was:

                          "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read.
                          It will be the person who does not know how to learn." (unfortunately
                          the sources were not provided)

                          Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-Brown,,,,

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of anthropmor@...<mailto:anthropmor%40AOL.COM>
                          Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
                          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                          Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated

                          argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better
                          tool for communciation than SACC-L.

                          For short form only.
                          Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
                          Mike Pavlik

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...<mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>>
                          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
                          Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated

                          It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's life
                          more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
                          Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation than
                          SACC-L.

                          Bob

                          >>> "kent morris" <km52@...<mailto:km52%40att.net>> 10/08/09 2:37 PM >>>
                          or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler instead
                          of
                          more complicated...
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...<mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>>
                          To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
                          Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
                          Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi

                          > From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
                          >
                          > @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
                          > http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
                          masters)
                          >
                          > Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
                          Twitter-speak,
                          > now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
                          > Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
                          Ardipithecus, and
                          > apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
                          >
                          > Bob
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Find out more at our web page
                          :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                          > Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • kent morris
                          so is this the art of the future or just a different medium of art? ... From: Deborah Shepherd To:
                          Message 12 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
                            so is this the "art" of the future or just a different medium of art?
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Deborah Shepherd" <deborah.shepherd@...>
                            To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 1:52 PM
                            Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated


                            > Yesterday, I saw a short video (copyright 2004) on the Zapotec. Part of
                            > the content concerned bringing computers and a computer instructor to a
                            > village where weaving for the global market is a big part of the economy.
                            > Point was made that the villagers realize they need to keep their designs
                            > current to interest new customers. The young children were taught to use
                            > Paint on the computers, and they began creating pictures which their
                            > parents wove into rugs! The children (as young as 6) claimed that drawing
                            > on the computer was easier than by hand because they could change the
                            > colors and the design easily without start over on a new piece of paper.
                            > Having used Paint myself and been very frustrated by how clumsy it is to
                            > control with a mouse, I found the idea of it being "easier" than using
                            > one's hands really amazing, but the children's pictures made impressive
                            > rugs.
                            >
                            > The video is "Being Zapotec" from www.nationalfilmnetwork.com
                            >
                            > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                            > Lynch, Brian M
                            > Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 1:54 PM
                            > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Thanks!
                            >
                            > I wondered when he said that, so I looked it up and found a page from
                            > 1999!
                            >
                            > http://www.douglasadams.com/dna/19990901-00-a.html
                            >
                            > I have a hunch that the time spans have shrunk in the mean time!
                            >
                            > Brian
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of
                            > anthropmor@...<mailto:anthropmor%40AOL.COM>
                            > Sent: Fri 10/9/2009 9:13 AM
                            > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                            >
                            >
                            > there is another qoute, from Douglas Adams, which I like- any
                            > technology that comes along before you are 5 years old is simple and
                            > basic- anything that comes long when you are between the age of 15 and
                            > 25 is cutting edge and excellent- and you can probably have a career in
                            > it. Any technology that comes along after you're 35 is unnatural and
                            > inconvenient.
                            >
                            > Mike Pavlik
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Lynch, Brian M
                            > <blynch@...<mailto:blynch%40qvcc.commnet.edu>>
                            > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:31 pm
                            > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
                            >
                            > I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's "innovation"
                            > (becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his quotes
                            > around the idea of innovation and change. One was:
                            >
                            > "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read.
                            > It will be the person who does not know how to learn." (unfortunately
                            > the sources were not provided)
                            >
                            > Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-Brown,,,,
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of
                            > anthropmor@...<mailto:anthropmor%40AOL.COM>
                            > Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
                            > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                            >
                            > argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better
                            > tool for communciation than SACC-L.
                            >
                            > For short form only.
                            > Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
                            > Mike Pavlik
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...<mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>>
                            > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
                            > Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                            >
                            > It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's life
                            > more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
                            > Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation than
                            > SACC-L.
                            >
                            > Bob
                            >
                            >>>> "kent morris" <km52@...<mailto:km52%40att.net>> 10/08/09 2:37 PM
                            >>>> >>>
                            > or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler instead
                            > of
                            > more complicated...
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...<mailto:bmuckle%40capilanou.ca>>
                            > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>>
                            > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
                            > Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi
                            >
                            >> From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
                            >>
                            >> @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
                            >> http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
                            > masters)
                            >>
                            >> Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
                            > Twitter-speak,
                            >> now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
                            >> Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
                            > Ardipithecus, and
                            >> apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
                            >>
                            >> Bob
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ------------------------------------
                            >>
                            >> Find out more at our web page
                            > :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                            >> Groups Links
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                            > Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • kent morris
                            I agree that we sometimes give students too much credit...On a similar note, I had an interesting conversation with one of my students (in his late teens or
                            Message 13 of 24 , Oct 9, 2009
                              I agree that we sometimes give students too much credit...On a similar note,
                              I had an interesting conversation with one of my students (in his late teens
                              or early twenties) today who is a writer/poet by vocation, and he deplores
                              the excessive use of technology and thinks it will be our undoing...He said
                              that he was sucked into facebook by peer pressure but that he's trying
                              eliminate it from his life because he feels face-to-face contact is much
                              more gratifying and makes him value his relationships more...
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "tadmci" <tadm@...>
                              To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:28 AM
                              Subject: [SACC-L] Re: not complicated


                              >I find this thread really interesting - partly because I've given up
                              >promoting the use of facebook and twitter among my colleagues. I see the
                              >advantages - and so do many of my 'online colleagues' like you - but I
                              >sense that people are getting sick of my trying to encourage these
                              >technologies. I think it was the comment "Oh, you mean I'd have to go to
                              >another website [to use twitter]" that brought this home.
                              >
                              > Let me add to the discussion. A recent CBC.ca editorial argued that we
                              > need to get computers out of the classroom because student learning is
                              > suffering from their use. While I'm not sure I agree with that point,
                              > there are other really interesting ideas raised in the piece.
                              >
                              > (You can access the article here: http://ow.ly/sYEC - In case that doesn't
                              > work, I'll retweet the link with a SACC_L hashtag.)
                              >
                              > The editorial argues that students aren't learning 'proper' research
                              > skills because an over reliance on computers. Sure, that's possible.
                              > Depends on what you're researching, I suppose.
                              >
                              > But, the secondary discussions are more interesting to me. The editorial
                              > argues that young people aren't "more technologically savvy" and that
                              > older users know how to use technology "in the real world."
                              >
                              > The author writes:
                              >
                              > "My generation needs to stop paying lip service to the idea that young
                              > people today are inherently more technologically savvy. Perhaps that was
                              > the case 20 years ago but the gap, if it still exists, is closing rapidly.
                              >
                              > Sure, when it comes to downloading music or playing video games, my
                              > students can beat me hands down. So what?
                              >
                              > The only useful skill I see coming from that is possibly a higher degree
                              > of manual dexterity around the keyboard and not much else.
                              >
                              > But will a teen enthusiastically take up a new form of computer hardware
                              > or software unless it either entertains them or in some way simplifies
                              > their work process?"
                              >
                              > I think some of this follows what Brian Lynch has noted below. And, it
                              > reminds me that people learn what they need to learn, or want to learn -
                              > computer skills included. I suspect those young tech savvy people who
                              > don't know how to research online can and will learn to do so when they
                              > see the need for it, whether in a class or in the business world.
                              > Likewise, if I wanted to download music, or play a multiplayer online
                              > game, I presume I could figure out how to do it.
                              >
                              > Tad
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In SACC-L@yahoogroups.com, "kent morris" <km52@...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> there are gobs of examples of people from all walks and stations in
                              >> life--even in the face of social pressure--who could not perceive the
                              >> positive contribution a given technology would make in their lives and/or
                              >> in
                              >> the world, even though they could easily learn it...
                              >> ----- Original Message -----
                              >> From: "kent morris" <km52@...>
                              >> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                              >> Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 6:48 AM
                              >> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> > regardless if one can learn it or not, one has to perceive that the new
                              >> > technology will make a net positive, meaningful contribution to one's
                              >> > life;
                              >> > otherwise, what's the point? Then, it can only complicate things...
                              >> > ----- Original Message -----
                              >> > From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
                              >> > To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                              >> > Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 5:11 PM
                              >> > Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >> Not sure what "simplicity" one might be looking for, but it seems that
                              >> >> Tapscott was on to something in his "Growing up Digital" when he
                              >> >> talked
                              >> >> about the different approach to change reflected in younger and older
                              >> >> learners. The younger, he suggests, tend to "adopt" new
                              >> >> technologies--exploring and experimenting with them (like when we
                              >> >> play!--and again, here, is a natural link to Pappert's work as well);
                              >> >> the
                              >> >> older learners tend to adapt new technologies-- thinking of them
                              >> >> through
                              >> >> the tools and uses with which they are already familiar. (Many
                              >> >> examples
                              >> >> might come to mind where older tech "newbies" humorously attempt to
                              >> >> get
                              >> >> technologies to do things they think are familiar, like using the
                              >> >> mouse
                              >> >> as
                              >> >> a foot pedal,like on a sewing machine, or using the cd drive as a cup
                              >> >> holder etc.)
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Rather than idealizing the "digital generation" (or overly
                              >> >> caricaturing
                              >> >> the "older generation") the "adapt" "adopt" comparison itself is
                              >> >> pretty
                              >> >> useful it seems. Especially when (it seems too) that change is now a
                              >> >> given.
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Put in other terms, Open Office might not be any simpler than Office
                              >> >> 2003
                              >> >> (Office Vista might not be any simpler than Office 2003) etc. but
                              >> >> what
                              >> >> is
                              >> >> key is the ability not to necessarily know one or the other inside and
                              >> >> out, but knowing how to learn it, how to learn how to learn it, how to
                              >> >> learn the resources that can help one learn it etc.
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >> -----Original Message-----
                              >> >> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of kent morris
                              >> >> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 7:46 PM
                              >> >> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                              >> >> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                              >> >>
                              >> >> so simplicity is all just relative to future innovation...
                              >> >> ----- Original Message -----
                              >> >> From: "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...>
                              >> >> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                              >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 4:31 PM
                              >> >> Subject: RE: [SACC-L] not complicated
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >>>I was looking for a quote from Alvin Toffler about today's
                              >> >>>"innovation"
                              >> >>>(becoming tomorrow's burden) and I ran across quite a few of his
                              >> >>>quotes
                              >> >>>around the idea of innovation and change. One was:
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>> "The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read.
                              >> >>> It
                              >> >>> will be the person who does not know how to learn." (unfortunately
                              >> >>> the
                              >> >>> sources were not provided)
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>> Got to go back and re-reread Toffler, Tapscott, and Seeley-Brown,,,,
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>> -----Original Message-----
                              >> >>> From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of anthropmor@...
                              >> >>> Sent: Thu 10/8/2009 6:00 PM
                              >> >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                              >> >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>> argument could be made that Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better
                              >> >>> tool for communciation than SACC-L.
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>> For short form only.
                              >> >>> Mostly, it is just a matter of preference.
                              >> >>> Mike Pavlik
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>> -----Original Message-----
                              >> >>> From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
                              >> >>> To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                              >> >>> Sent: Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57 pm
                              >> >>> Subject: Re: [SACC-L] not complicated
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>> It is a faulty assumption that Twitter and Facebook make one's life
                              >> >>> more complicated. In fact, I think an argument could be made that
                              >> >>> Twitter and/or Facebook would be a better tool for communciation than
                              >> >>> SACC-L.
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>> Bob
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>>>> "kent morris" <km52@...> 10/08/09 2:37 PM >>>
                              >> >>> or you can just say to hell with it and make your life simpler
                              >> >>> instead
                              >> >>> of
                              >> >>> more complicated...
                              >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
                              >> >>> From: "Bob Muckle" <bmuckle@...>
                              >> >>> To: <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                              >> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2009 2:26 PM
                              >> >>> Subject: [SACC-L] more on Ardi
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>> From the Twitter site of science-writer Carl Zimmer
                              >> >>>>
                              >> >>>> @carlzimmer Ardipithecus has a Facebook page, of course.
                              >> >>>> http://is.gd/45BIs (The folks at Science magazine are the puppet
                              >> >>> masters)
                              >> >>>>
                              >> >>>> Just when I start getting comfortable with the ridiculous
                              >> >>> Twitter-speak,
                              >> >>>> now that I have joined Facebook, I am going to have to learn
                              >> >>>> Facebook-speak. I have already asked to be a "friend" of
                              >> >>> Ardipithecus, and
                              >> >>>> apparently I am a "fan" of SACC, whatever that means.
                              >> >>>>
                              >> >>>> Bob
                              >> >>>>
                              >> >>>>
                              >> >>>> ------------------------------------
                              >> >>>>
                              >> >>>> Find out more at our web page
                              >> >>> :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                              >> >>>> Groups Links
                              >> >>>>
                              >> >>>>
                              >> >>>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>> ------------------------------------
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>> Find out more at our web page
                              >> >>> :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                              >> >>> Groups Links
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>>
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >> ------------------------------------
                              >> >>
                              >> >> Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                              >> >> Groups Links
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >>
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> > ------------------------------------
                              >> >
                              >> > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                              >> > Groups Links
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >> >
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Find out more at our web page :http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/sacc/Yahoo!
                              > Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.