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footprints

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  • Bob Muckle
    Last week there was news of some 1.5 million year old H. erectus or H. ergaste r footprints being discovered in Kenya. The original story apparently is in
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 3, 2009
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      Last week there was news of some 1.5 million year old 'H. erectus' or 'H. ergaste'r footprints being discovered in Kenya. The original story apparently is in 'Science' but I haven't seen that yet. It hasn't arrived at my college and we don't get on-line access.

      I have a few questions. First, the article I read in the popular press says these are the oldest humanlike footprints. Did I miss something? What about the Australopithecus prints at Laetoli?

      Second, the article suggests that bipedalism may have been used to 'run the animals in the heat', effectively causing them to collapse from exhaustion. It doesn't say, but I'm assuming the thinking is that since bipedalism allows greater endurance, that humans could outlast their prey in the heat. I've never heard this thinking before. Does anyone know of any ethnographies that describe this kind of hunting....running animals in the heat?

      If there isn't any ethnographic comparables, how could you test the hypothesis that they were running the anmals to exhaustion?

      Bob
    • Popplestone, Ann
      They are assuming that the long toes on the Laetoli footprints make them not human-like. The toes aren t that long. The Laetoli prints are very human-like
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 3, 2009
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        They are assuming that the "long toes" on the Laetoli footprints make
        them not human-like. The toes aren't that long. The Laetoli prints are
        very human-like (just small).



        One human couldn't run much of anything to exhaustion. Several humans,
        chasing in turn, have been described as using this technique in a number
        of places. Actually, several experiments in Africa where an
        investigator sneaked up on a zebra or wildebeest and grabbed it by the
        tail indicated that a sneaky hominid could probably have speared a large
        mammal fairly frequently.



        From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Bob Muckle
        Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:53 PM
        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SACC-L] footprints



        Last week there was news of some 1.5 million year old 'H. erectus' or
        'H. ergaste'r footprints being discovered in Kenya. The original story
        apparently is in 'Science' but I haven't seen that yet. It hasn't
        arrived at my college and we don't get on-line access.

        I have a few questions. First, the article I read in the popular press
        says these are the oldest humanlike footprints. Did I miss something?
        What about the Australopithecus prints at Laetoli?

        Second, the article suggests that bipedalism may have been used to 'run
        the animals in the heat', effectively causing them to collapse from
        exhaustion. It doesn't say, but I'm assuming the thinking is that since
        bipedalism allows greater endurance, that humans could outlast their
        prey in the heat. I've never heard this thinking before. Does anyone
        know of any ethnographies that describe this kind of hunting....running
        animals in the heat?

        If there isn't any ethnographic comparables, how could you test the
        hypothesis that they were running the anmals to exhaustion?

        Bob





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Andrew J Petto
        Actually, both the shape of the modern foot and the length of the toes appear to have been significantly affected by the habit of wearing shoes. I have a slide
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 3, 2009
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          Actually, both the shape of the modern foot and the length of the toes appear to have been significantly affected by the habit of wearing shoes. I have a slide comparing modern shoe-wearing feet and those that do not.

          Anj

          ------------
          Andrew J Petto, PhD
          Senior Lecturer
          Department of Biological Sciences
          University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
          PO Box 413
          Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
          414-229-6784
          FAX: 414-229-3926
          http://www.uwm.edu/~ajpetto

          *************
          Now Available!!! Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism.
          http://www.uwm.edu/~ajpetto/scc2.htm
          *************

          "There is no word in the language that I revere more than teacher. None. My heart sings when a kid refers to me as his teacher and it always has."

          -- Pat Conroy
          The Prince of Tides

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Ann Popplestone" <ann.popplestone@...>
          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 8:34:29 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
          Subject: RE: [SACC-L] footprints






          They are assuming that the "long toes" on the Laetoli footprints make
          them not human-like. The toes aren't that long. The Laetoli prints are
          very human-like (just small).

          One human couldn't run much of anything to exhaustion. Several humans,
          chasing in turn, have been described as using this technique in a number
          of places. Actually, several experiments in Africa where an
          investigator sneaked up on a zebra or wildebeest and grabbed it by the
          tail indicated that a sneaky hominid could probably have speared a large
          mammal fairly frequently.

          From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
          Of Bob Muckle
          Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:53 PM
          To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [SACC-L] footprints

          Last week there was news of some 1.5 million year old 'H. erectus' or
          'H. ergaste'r footprints being discovered in Kenya. The original story
          apparently is in 'Science' but I haven't seen that yet. It hasn't
          arrived at my college and we don't get on-line access.

          I have a few questions. First, the article I read in the popular press
          says these are the oldest humanlike footprints. Did I miss something?
          What about the Australopithecus prints at Laetoli?

          Second, the article suggests that bipedalism may have been used to 'run
          the animals in the heat', effectively causing them to collapse from
          exhaustion. It doesn't say, but I'm assuming the thinking is that since
          bipedalism allows greater endurance, that humans could outlast their
          prey in the heat. I've never heard this thinking before. Does anyone
          know of any ethnographies that describe this kind of hunting....running
          animals in the heat?

          If there isn't any ethnographic comparables, how could you test the
          hypothesis that they were running the anmals to exhaustion?

          Bob

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • anthropmor@AOL.COM
          Bob- as far as endurance, yes, bipedality is pretty efficient, but I am guessing that the reporter did not understand how that works- persistance hunting, like
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 3, 2009
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            Bob- as far as endurance, yes, bipedality is pretty efficient, but I am guessing that the reporter did not understand how that works- persistance hunting, like wolves, rather than sheer chasing in the heat, in which any quadruped would quickly leave us running by ourselves.
            ? I will send you a copy of the Science digest story.
            Mike Pavlik


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Bob Muckle <bmuckle@...>
            To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 5:53 pm
            Subject: [SACC-L] footprints






            Last week there was news of some 1.5 million year old 'H. erectus' or 'H. ergaste'r footprints being discovered in Kenya. The original story apparently is in 'Science' but I haven't seen that yet. It hasn't arrived at my college and we don't get on-line access.

            I have a few questions. First, the article I read in the popular press says these are the oldest humanlike footprints. Did I miss something? What about the Australopithecus prints at Laetoli?

            Second, the article suggests that bipedalism may have been used to 'run the animals in the heat', effectively causing them to collapse from exhaustion. It doesn't say, but I'm assuming the thinking is that since bipedalism allows greater endurance, that humans could outlast their prey in the heat. I've never heard this thinking before. Does anyone know of any ethnographies that describe this kind of hunting....running animals in the heat?

            If there isn't any ethnographic comparables, how could you test the hypothesis that they were running the anmals to exhaustion?

            Bob








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Renee Garcia
            Hello All, I recall hearing the report on NPR world news and thought that the morphologic traits discussed were rather generic. The primary difference between
            Message 5 of 5 , Mar 3, 2009
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              Hello All,

              I recall hearing the report on NPR world news and thought that the morphologic traits discussed were rather generic. The primary difference between these and the Laetoli series is the divergence of the hallux, which does not appear here in the Kenyan sample.

              I disagree that the morphology of the modern human foot has changed shaped due to modern shoes. Apart from the bony irritations that develop from wearing constricting shoes, the phalanges and digits as well as the tarsal bones are not drastically different from those we can see in the archaeological record of just a hundred years ago or so among Native Americans and others who did not wear shoes. Further, modern shoes may change the skeletal morphology of an individual, again small, tight shoes, but I would say that it would be Lamarckian evolution that would produce this kind of change on a population. I am dubious that this is the case.

              Always interested in a good discussion on skeletal morphology.

              Renee Garcia
              Saddleback College


              [http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45516000/jpg/_45516169_bennett1hr.jpg%5d[http://www.forbiddenhistory.info/files/laetoli.jpg%5d




              ________________________________
              From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew J Petto [ajpetto@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:21 PM
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SACC-L] footprints


              Actually, both the shape of the modern foot and the length of the toes appear to have been significantly affected by the habit of wearing shoes. I have a slide comparing modern shoe-wearing feet and those that do not.

              Anj

              ------------
              Andrew J Petto, PhD
              Senior Lecturer
              Department of Biological Sciences
              University of Wisconsin -- Milwaukee
              PO Box 413
              Milwaukee WI 53201-0413
              414-229-6784
              FAX: 414-229-3926
              http://www.uwm.edu/~ajpetto

              *************
              Now Available!!! Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism.
              http://www.uwm.edu/~ajpetto/scc2.htm
              *************

              "There is no word in the language that I revere more than teacher. None. My heart sings when a kid refers to me as his teacher and it always has."

              -- Pat Conroy
              The Prince of Tides

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Ann Popplestone" <ann.popplestone@...<mailto:ann.popplestone%40tri-c.edu>>
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 8:34:29 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
              Subject: RE: [SACC-L] footprints

              They are assuming that the "long toes" on the Laetoli footprints make
              them not human-like. The toes aren't that long. The Laetoli prints are
              very human-like (just small).

              One human couldn't run much of anything to exhaustion. Several humans,
              chasing in turn, have been described as using this technique in a number
              of places. Actually, several experiments in Africa where an
              investigator sneaked up on a zebra or wildebeest and grabbed it by the
              tail indicated that a sneaky hominid could probably have speared a large
              mammal fairly frequently.

              From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
              Of Bob Muckle
              Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:53 PM
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com<mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: [SACC-L] footprints

              Last week there was news of some 1.5 million year old 'H. erectus' or
              'H. ergaste'r footprints being discovered in Kenya. The original story
              apparently is in 'Science' but I haven't seen that yet. It hasn't
              arrived at my college and we don't get on-line access.

              I have a few questions. First, the article I read in the popular press
              says these are the oldest humanlike footprints. Did I miss something?
              What about the Australopithecus prints at Laetoli?

              Second, the article suggests that bipedalism may have been used to 'run
              the animals in the heat', effectively causing them to collapse from
              exhaustion. It doesn't say, but I'm assuming the thinking is that since
              bipedalism allows greater endurance, that humans could outlast their
              prey in the heat. I've never heard this thinking before. Does anyone
              know of any ethnographies that describe this kind of hunting....running
              animals in the heat?

              If there isn't any ethnographic comparables, how could you test the
              hypothesis that they were running the anmals to exhaustion?

              Bob

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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