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Re: [SACC-L] FW: [aaaSectionPresidents] Query re AAA 2010

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  • Chuck Ellenbaum
    Phil I agree with you. I have been a union president of an Illinois Federation of Teachers local and an Illinois Education Association local. I strongly
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 29, 2008
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      Phil

      I agree with you. I have been a union president of an Illinois Federation of Teachers local and an Illinois Education Association local. I strongly believe in fighting for issues of social justice. Unions are important but are not an end in themselves. They are a means to an end. They can become as bad as what they fight against.

      I do remember the meeting I had planned for Chicago with visits to museums and blues venues, among other things. Nonetheless the AAA said "No" because of University of Illinois's mascot. Wee couldn't meet in Chicago, but there was no direct pressure on University of Illinois or the Anthropology Department there. They had more power to change the situation than Chicago workers and merchants. It is interesting how they make an exception for themselves. "Do as I say and not as I do" tends to be a defining characteristic of a hypocrite.

      Chuck ><>
      "When beholding the beauty of the ocean skin, one forgets the tiger heart that pants beneath it." Herman Melville


      On Tuesday, July 29, 2008, at 10:00AM, "Philip Stein" <stein39@...> wrote:
      >I cannot express my feelings as I read the following from below:
      >
      > "...we need to be realistic that an insistence on utilizing unionized hotels, no matter what, would eliminate many cities, especially in the South, from consideration for future meetings. Unions are important, but until we live in a better world, we need to continue doing the best we can."
      >
      > I am a liberal and very proud of it, but I have always questioned the decision of the AAA to shoot itself and us in the foot and prevent us from meeting in particular places because of political criteria. Of course, a decision by the AAA to hold or not hold a meeting at a particular place may have some minor influence on the local governments, but what about the impact of a small group like SACC being prevented from meeting in particular locations. Chuck, remember Chicago! Now the AAA is making an exception for itself.
      >
      > Phil
      >
      >
      >"Kaupp, Ann" <kauppa@...> wrote:
      > FYI. I had sent out an email giving SACC members an opportunity to
      >comment on the AAA's decision to meet in New Orleans. NAPA's response
      >seems to express what many feel about meeting in New Orleans. Pres.
      >Setha Low reminded that decisions where to hold the AAA meetings are
      >made years in advance and that a new Committee on Labor Relations soon
      >will be formed. Ann
      >
      >________________________________
      >
      >From: aaasectionpresidents-bounces@...
      >[mailto:aaasectionpresidents-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Dennis
      >Wiedman
      >Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 11:07 AM
      >To: aaasectionpresidents@...
      >Subject: Re: [aaaSectionPresidents] Query re AAA 2010
      >
      >NAPA Position on Non-Union Hotel in New Orleans
      >
      >Developed at the request of Section Assembly Convener
      >
      >Submitted by Dennis Wiedman, NAPA President, July 28, 2008
      >
      >NAPA agrees to meet in New Orleans but under protest because the AAA
      >Executive Board did not follow appropriate procedure established in the
      >aftermath of the San Francisco debacle. The AAA Executive Board at that
      >time established a Labor Relations Commission (LRC) to advise on labor
      >relations issues. The current EB voted to meet in New Orleans without
      >consulting with the LRC. If this consultation procedure would have been
      >followed then this call for Section positions may not have been
      >necessary and the AAA would be in a stronger position to respond to
      >criticisms.
      >
      >NAPA concurs with the decision of the EB regarding the location of this
      >meeting because the benefits of making a tangible statement of support
      >for New Orleans outweighs the lack of sufficient unionized hotels to
      >house our annual conference.
      >
      >We need to recognize that there will be some unhappiness generated about
      >this decision, but we need to be realistic that an insistence on
      >utilizing unionized hotels, no matter what, would eliminate many cities,
      >especially in the South, from consideration for future meetings. Unions
      >are important, but until we live in a better world, we need to continue
      >doing the best we can.
      >
      >It is in the best interests of NAPA and AAA membership to support this
      >decision of the EB. There is a difference between crossing a picket line
      >and utilizing a hotel that is not unionized. If there is a hotel strike
      >in New Orleans at the time of the meeting, once again many of us would
      >not be willing to cross the picket line.
      >
      >NAPA will be planning session and events that focus of these issues and
      >concerns.
      >
      >Dennis Wiedman, Ph.D.
      >Associate Professor
      >Undergraduate Studies Director
      >Department of Sociology and Anthropology
      >11200 SW 8th Street, DM 336B
      >Florida International University
      >Miami, Florida 33199
      >Office Phone: 305-348-2262
      >
      >Web Page: www.fiu.edu/~wiedmand
      >
      >President of NAPA: National Association for the Practice of
      >Anthropology.
      >A Section of the American Anthropological Association.
      >
      >
      >---- Original message ----
      >
      >Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:44:06 -0400
      >From: Florence Babb <fbabb@...>
      >Subject: [aaaSectionPresidents] Query re AAA 2010
      >To: aaasectionpresidents@...
      >
      >>Dear SA members:
      >>
      >>As you may recall, on June 2 the AAA membership received an email
      >letter
      >>from Setha Low, Alan Goodman, and Dan Segal explaining the decision
      >>taken a year ago by the EB to hold the AAA 2010 meeting in New Orleans.
      >
      >> I won't repeat the content here, but will attach a copy of the letter
      >>they sent.
      >>
      >>The letter was motivated by some AAA members who approached Setha and
      >>others on the EB about why the AAA would be meeting in a location
      >>lacking unionized facilities. Their letter pointed out that the AAA
      >>membership in 2005 voted that they "strongly preferred" (but did not
      >>insist on) meeting in unionized facilities. This position was endorsed
      >>by the Section Assembly. Therefore, the decision to meet in New Orleans
      >
      >>was taken in compliance with AAA policy guidelines. The letter goes on
      >>to discuss the complex rationale for choosing New Orleans as a venue
      >>taking into account labor and other issues, notably the desire to
      >>support the city and its residents following Katrina.
      >>
      >>Nonetheless, there are some AAA members who are dissatisfied with the
      >>decision and so I felt, in consultation with the SA Working Group, that
      >
      >>it would be worth raising the matter on the SA listserv. I will share
      >>briefly with you the gist of some of the SAWG's productive thinking,
      >>with an invitation to you to consult with your section membership and
      >>get back to the SA with any ideas you would like to share. We hope that
      >
      >>this will lead in some positive directions well in advance of the 2010
      >>meetings, avoiding last-minute debates over the decision taken.
      >>
      >>In general, the SA Working Group is inclined to think that the best
      >>approach may be to use the meeting venue in New Orleans to address
      >>issues relating to labor, gay rights, and post-Katrina racial
      >>justice--and to invite local activists and community members to
      >>participate. This is a strategy supported by members of EB as well.
      >>There may be others who will say that an alternative should have been
      >>found to meeting in in a venue lacking in union facilities, though we
      >>are aware of the many difficult factors in choosing meeting venues for
      >>an organize the size of AAA. We have heard that at least a couple of
      >>sections are now planning to hold their events in New Orleans at venues
      >
      >>away from the non-union conference hotel. That is certainly one viable
      >>strategy to handle what one member of the SAWG aptly called a "thorny
      >>convergence of historical and contextual factors."
      >>
      >>Other sections are creatively discussing plans to organize panels at
      >the
      >>2010 meeting on the convergence and divergence of different social
      >>justice movements (relevant to New Orleans as conference site). Some of
      >
      >>us would advocate for the AAA conference that year to have an overall
      >>theme that would address all these concerns.
      >>
      >>As SA begins to play a more significant role in governance, members are
      >
      >>encouraged to use this listserv as a space for constructive discussion.
      >
      >>With that in mind, we invite you to share any thoughts you and your
      >>sections may have, particularly those that go "outside the box" to
      >>generate ideas that we may be put into practice.
      >>
      >>Please consider the conversation open and let us hear from you.
      >>All best wishes,
      >>
      >>Florence Babb
      >>SA Convenor
      >>________________ >AAA-New Orleans 2010.doc (57k bytes)
      >>________________ >_______________________________________________
      >>AAASectionPresidents mailing list >AAASectionPresidents@...
      >>https://my.binhost.com/lists/listinfo/aaasectionpresidents
      >
      >----------
      >
      >_______________________________________________
      >AAASectionPresidents mailing list
      >AAASectionPresidents@...
      >https://my.binhost.com/lists/listinfo/aaasectionpresidents
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • Lloyd Miller
      I wholeheartedly agree with Phil! Lloyd lloyd.miller@mchsi.com ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 29, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        I wholeheartedly agree with Phil!
        Lloyd
        lloyd.miller@...




        On Jul 29, 2008, at 10:00 AM, Philip Stein wrote:

        > I cannot express my feelings as I read the following from below:
        >
        > "...we need to be realistic that an insistence on utilizing
        > unionized hotels, no matter what, would eliminate many cities,
        > especially in the South, from consideration for future meetings.
        > Unions are important, but until we live in a better world, we need
        > to continue doing the best we can."
        >
        > I am a liberal and very proud of it, but I have always questioned
        > the decision of the AAA to shoot itself and us in the foot and
        > prevent us from meeting in particular places because of political
        > criteria. Of course, a decision by the AAA to hold or not hold a
        > meeting at a particular place may have some minor influence on the
        > local governments, but what about the impact of a small group like
        > SACC being prevented from meeting in particular locations. Chuck,
        > remember Chicago! Now the AAA is making an exception for itself.
        >
        > Phil
        >
        >
        > "Kaupp, Ann" <kauppa@...> wrote:
        > FYI. I had sent out an email giving SACC members an opportunity to
        > comment on the AAA's decision to meet in New Orleans. NAPA's response
        > seems to express what many feel about meeting in New Orleans. Pres.
        > Setha Low reminded that decisions where to hold the AAA meetings are
        > made years in advance and that a new Committee on Labor Relations soon
        > will be formed. Ann
        >
        > ________________________________
        >
        > From: aaasectionpresidents-bounces@...
        > [mailto:aaasectionpresidents-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Dennis
        > Wiedman
        > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 11:07 AM
        > To: aaasectionpresidents@...
        > Subject: Re: [aaaSectionPresidents] Query re AAA 2010
        >
        > NAPA Position on Non-Union Hotel in New Orleans
        >
        > Developed at the request of Section Assembly Convener
        >
        > Submitted by Dennis Wiedman, NAPA President, July 28, 2008
        >
        > NAPA agrees to meet in New Orleans but under protest because the AAA
        > Executive Board did not follow appropriate procedure established in
        > the
        > aftermath of the San Francisco debacle. The AAA Executive Board at
        > that
        > time established a Labor Relations Commission (LRC) to advise on labor
        > relations issues. The current EB voted to meet in New Orleans without
        > consulting with the LRC. If this consultation procedure would have
        > been
        > followed then this call for Section positions may not have been
        > necessary and the AAA would be in a stronger position to respond to
        > criticisms.
        >
        > NAPA concurs with the decision of the EB regarding the location of
        > this
        > meeting because the benefits of making a tangible statement of support
        > for New Orleans outweighs the lack of sufficient unionized hotels to
        > house our annual conference.
        >
        > We need to recognize that there will be some unhappiness generated
        > about
        > this decision, but we need to be realistic that an insistence on
        > utilizing unionized hotels, no matter what, would eliminate many
        > cities,
        > especially in the South, from consideration for future meetings.
        > Unions
        > are important, but until we live in a better world, we need to
        > continue
        > doing the best we can.
        >
        > It is in the best interests of NAPA and AAA membership to support this
        > decision of the EB. There is a difference between crossing a picket
        > line
        > and utilizing a hotel that is not unionized. If there is a hotel
        > strike
        > in New Orleans at the time of the meeting, once again many of us would
        > not be willing to cross the picket line.
        >
        > NAPA will be planning session and events that focus of these issues
        > and
        > concerns.
        >
        > Dennis Wiedman, Ph.D.
        > Associate Professor
        > Undergraduate Studies Director
        > Department of Sociology and Anthropology
        > 11200 SW 8th Street, DM 336B
        > Florida International University
        > Miami, Florida 33199
        > Office Phone: 305-348-2262
        >
        > Web Page: www.fiu.edu/~wiedmand
        >
        > President of NAPA: National Association for the Practice of
        > Anthropology.
        > A Section of the American Anthropological Association.
        >
        >
        > ---- Original message ----
        >
        > Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:44:06 -0400
        > From: Florence Babb <fbabb@...>
        > Subject: [aaaSectionPresidents] Query re AAA 2010
        > To: aaasectionpresidents@...
        >
        > >Dear SA members:
        > >
        > >As you may recall, on June 2 the AAA membership received an email
        > letter
        > >from Setha Low, Alan Goodman, and Dan Segal explaining the decision
        > >taken a year ago by the EB to hold the AAA 2010 meeting in New
        > Orleans.
        >
        > > I won't repeat the content here, but will attach a copy of the
        > letter
        > >they sent.
        > >
        > >The letter was motivated by some AAA members who approached Setha and
        > >others on the EB about why the AAA would be meeting in a location
        > >lacking unionized facilities. Their letter pointed out that the AAA
        > >membership in 2005 voted that they "strongly preferred" (but did not
        > >insist on) meeting in unionized facilities. This position was
        > endorsed
        > >by the Section Assembly. Therefore, the decision to meet in New
        > Orleans
        >
        > >was taken in compliance with AAA policy guidelines. The letter
        > goes on
        > >to discuss the complex rationale for choosing New Orleans as a venue
        > >taking into account labor and other issues, notably the desire to
        > >support the city and its residents following Katrina.
        > >
        > >Nonetheless, there are some AAA members who are dissatisfied with the
        > >decision and so I felt, in consultation with the SA Working Group,
        > that
        >
        > >it would be worth raising the matter on the SA listserv. I will share
        > >briefly with you the gist of some of the SAWG's productive thinking,
        > >with an invitation to you to consult with your section membership and
        > >get back to the SA with any ideas you would like to share. We hope
        > that
        >
        > >this will lead in some positive directions well in advance of the
        > 2010
        > >meetings, avoiding last-minute debates over the decision taken.
        > >
        > >In general, the SA Working Group is inclined to think that the best
        > >approach may be to use the meeting venue in New Orleans to address
        > >issues relating to labor, gay rights, and post-Katrina racial
        > >justice--and to invite local activists and community members to
        > >participate. This is a strategy supported by members of EB as well.
        > >There may be others who will say that an alternative should have been
        > >found to meeting in in a venue lacking in union facilities, though we
        > >are aware of the many difficult factors in choosing meeting venues
        > for
        > >an organize the size of AAA. We have heard that at least a couple of
        > >sections are now planning to hold their events in New Orleans at
        > venues
        >
        > >away from the non-union conference hotel. That is certainly one
        > viable
        > >strategy to handle what one member of the SAWG aptly called a "thorny
        > >convergence of historical and contextual factors."
        > >
        > >Other sections are creatively discussing plans to organize panels at
        > the
        > >2010 meeting on the convergence and divergence of different social
        > >justice movements (relevant to New Orleans as conference site).
        > Some of
        >
        > >us would advocate for the AAA conference that year to have an overall
        > >theme that would address all these concerns.
        > >
        > >As SA begins to play a more significant role in governance,
        > members are
        >
        > >encouraged to use this listserv as a space for constructive
        > discussion.
        >
        > >With that in mind, we invite you to share any thoughts you and your
        > >sections may have, particularly those that go "outside the box" to
        > >generate ideas that we may be put into practice.
        > >
        > >Please consider the conversation open and let us hear from you.
        > >All best wishes,
        > >
        > >Florence Babb
        > >SA Convenor
        > >________________ >AAA-New Orleans 2010.doc (57k bytes)
        > >________________ >_______________________________________________
        > >AAASectionPresidents mailing list >AAASectionPresidents@...
        > >https://my.binhost.com/lists/listinfo/aaasectionpresidents
        >
        > ----------
        >
        > _______________________________________________
        > AAASectionPresidents mailing list
        > AAASectionPresidents@...
        > https://my.binhost.com/lists/listinfo/aaasectionpresidents
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lloyd Miller
        Gosh, I agree wholeheartedly with Mel too! Lloyd lloyd.miller@mchsi.com ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 29, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Gosh, I agree wholeheartedly with Mel too!
          Lloyd
          lloyd.miller@...




          On Jul 29, 2008, at 10:50 AM, Melvin Johnson wrote:

          > I sent the following to Phil Stein from my hotmail account. Thought
          > I would share
          > with the rest of you. Mel
          >
          > I would have to concur with Phil on this. Only probably in a more
          > forceful fashion.
          > I have lived in a "Right to Work" state nearly all of my life, and
          > for those few years
          > that I lived in states that allowed "closed shops" I have witnessed
          > the full range of
          > negativity associated with unionization. I agree there is a time
          > and a place for
          > recognition of unions in labor relations. I also agree with those
          > situations when
          > employees fully recognize the need to remain free of unions.
          > Unionization does not
          > automatically insure high standards of living, fair wages, or even
          > living wages. Lack
          > of unionization does not authomatically mean lower wages, standards
          > of safety, or
          > lower quality. I agree that often the AAA has commited much damage
          > to itself by
          > establishing policies which are not flexible enough to allow
          > variation. Yet we are an
          > organization of tremendous variation. I support the rights of those
          > of different
          > lifestyles, work affliliations, etc. I find it extremely amuzing
          > that in its quest to
          > support and recognize difference, the AAA has become very narrow
          > and at times
          > bigoted. It is probably well that I am resigning as an officer, I
          > am finding most of
          > this stuff particularly annoying and in direction conflict with my
          > own set of values
          > and standards. Maybe I am just too liberal and open.
          >
          > Mel Johnson
          >
          > Treasurer
          >
          > "Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death." --
          > Mame Dennis
          >
          > ---------- Original Message -----------
          > From: Philip Stein <stein39@...>
          > To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com, Ann Kaupp <kauppa@...>, Becky Stein-
          > Frankle
          > <rls@...>, Deborah Shepherd
          > <deborah.shepherd@...>, Laura
          > Gonzalez <lagonzal@...>, Laura Gonzalez <LTGonzalez@...>,
          > Lloyd Miller
          > <lloyd.miller@...>, Maren Wilson <marenjanette@...>, Mary
          > Kay Gilliland
          > <mkgilliland@...>, Melvin Johnson <majohns1@...>,
          > Patricia Hamlen
          > <hamlen@...>, Patricia Hamlen <phamlen@...>,
          > Rebecca Stein-
          > Frankle <steinrl@...>, Rob Edwards <redwards@...>
          > Sent: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:00:40 -0700 (PDT)
          > Subject: Re: [SACC-L] FW: [aaaSectionPresidents] Query re AAA 2010
          >
          > > I cannot express my feelings as I read the following from below:
          > >
          > > "...we need to be realistic that an insistence on utilizing
          > unionized hotels,
          > > no matter what, would eliminate many cities, especially in the
          > South, from
          > > consideration for future meetings. Unions are important, but
          > until we live in
          > > a better world, we need to continue doing the best we can."
          > >
          > > I am a liberal and very proud of it, but I have always questioned
          > the
          > > decision of the AAA to shoot itself and us in the foot and
          > prevent us from
          > > meeting in particular places because of political criteria. Of
          > course, a
          > > decision by the AAA to hold or not hold a meeting at a particular
          > place may
          > > have some minor influence on the local governments, but what
          > about the impact
          > > of a small group like SACC being prevented from meeting in
          > particular
          > > locations. Chuck, remember Chicago! Now the AAA is making an
          > exception for itself.
          > >
          > > Phil
          > >
          > > "
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lynch, Brian M
          . There seems to be a
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 30, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            .

            <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=126016/grpspId=1705079605/msgId=4563/stime=1217383866/nc1=3848583/nc2=5349282/nc3=4763761> There seems to be a certain degree to which the power of a union to protect and fight for the rights of workers as a whole relies on individuals looking past their individual or sub-group interests in order that those with the larger power over them (management) do not simply divide and conquer. At the same time, unions can stretch this expectation quite far, where the very individuals they are meant to protect become collateral damage of sorts, for the good of the larger order. In all of this, principled advocacy for justice and fairness takes second or third place to political strategy and the bottom line.

            I recenlty saw a glaring example of this, where a person who worked for years for a trade union, as a non-union office worker in support of the union's functions, was treated to the same management tactics (put on part time so that health benefits and other related concerns would no longer be in consideration). All for the good of the bottom line-- no sense of operating out of the very 'justice' principles that supposedly fuel the very idea of unions. Management of the union operated, well, as management rather than as principled advocates of justice.

            The AAA handled the SF/Atlanta situation in a lousy way-- and I registered my opinion about this when it happened. "Justice" was talked about, largely to rationalize a final decision, but this was no march to the frontlines for solidarity. I think that this current situation is another example, where people are being led by confusion and conflicting assumptions; AAA 'constituents' (i.e. members) are treated to another round of somewhat paternalistic, confused 'management' of our affairs. And certainly we are not being asked in any substantive way to weigh in on serious, collaborative considerations of justice.

            Brian








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