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Interesting news item today

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  • Lynch, Brian M
    The discussion continues! http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/02/06/kenya.fossildebate.ap/index.h tml Brian [Non-text portions of this message have been
    Message 1 of 24 , Feb 7, 2007
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      The "discussion" continues!



      http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/02/06/kenya.fossildebate.ap/index.h
      tml





      Brian











      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • bdlqvcc
      The link below that I just sent should all be one line, right through the html. Otherwise you ll ge an error page on CNN. ...
      Message 2 of 24 , Feb 7, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        The link below that I just sent should all be one line, right
        through the "html." Otherwise you'll ge an error page on CNN.



        --- In SACC-L@yahoogroups.com, "Lynch, Brian M" <blynch@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > The "discussion" continues!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/02/06/kenya.fossildebate.ap/inde
        x.html
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Brian
        >
      • Deborah Shepherd
        It s sad to have to worry about the safety of some of our most important fossils while in their own homeland of Kenya. One hopes that the museum has
        Message 3 of 24 , Feb 7, 2007
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          It's sad to have to worry about the safety of some of our most important
          fossils while in their own homeland of Kenya. One hopes that the museum
          has exceptional security.

          Could it be that many evangelicals the world wide would be happier if
          we just said that modern humans are "ascended" from apes rather than
          descended? Sometimes I wonder how much of the objection is truly
          theological and how much is pure basic insult to their self-esteem. I
          also wonder if many of them have thought hard about the difference.

          Deborah

          Deborah J. Shepherd, Ph.D.
          Anthropology and Sociology
          Anoka-Ramsey Community College
          Coon Rapids Campus
          email: deborah.shepherd@...
          http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/
          new phone number: 763-433-1195


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Wenzel, Jason
          I am interested in attending this year s annual meeting (it will be my first). I would really like to see some sort of workshop or focus group addressing
          Message 4 of 24 , Feb 7, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            I am interested in attending this year's annual meeting (it will be my first).

            I would really like to see some sort of workshop or focus group addressing fundamentalism/religion/evolution in the classroom.

            Jason

            Valencia & Brevard Community Colleges
            Florida

            ________________________________

            From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Deborah Shepherd
            Sent: Wed 2/7/2007 2:17 PM
            To: blynch@...; SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today



            It's sad to have to worry about the safety of some of our most important
            fossils while in their own homeland of Kenya. One hopes that the museum
            has exceptional security.

            Could it be that many evangelicals the world wide would be happier if
            we just said that modern humans are "ascended" from apes rather than
            descended? Sometimes I wonder how much of the objection is truly
            theological and how much is pure basic insult to their self-esteem. I
            also wonder if many of them have thought hard about the difference.

            Deborah

            Deborah J. Shepherd, Ph.D.
            Anthropology and Sociology
            Anoka-Ramsey Community College
            Coon Rapids Campus
            email: deborah.shepherd@... <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>
            http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/ <http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/>
            new phone number: 763-433-1195

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mark Lewine
            Looking forward to meeting you at the conference, Jason, let me or Rob Edwards know if you have any questions that might help. Mark Lewine, VP Membership
            Message 5 of 24 , Feb 7, 2007
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              Looking forward to meeting you at the conference, Jason, let me or Rob Edwards know if you have any questions that might help. Mark Lewine, VP Membership redwards@...
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Wenzel, Jason
              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 4:56 PM
              Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today


              I am interested in attending this year's annual meeting (it will be my first).

              I would really like to see some sort of workshop or focus group addressing fundamentalism/religion/evolution in the classroom.

              Jason

              Valencia & Brevard Community Colleges
              Florida

              ________________________________

              From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Deborah Shepherd
              Sent: Wed 2/7/2007 2:17 PM
              To: blynch@...; SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today

              It's sad to have to worry about the safety of some of our most important
              fossils while in their own homeland of Kenya. One hopes that the museum
              has exceptional security.

              Could it be that many evangelicals the world wide would be happier if
              we just said that modern humans are "ascended" from apes rather than
              descended? Sometimes I wonder how much of the objection is truly
              theological and how much is pure basic insult to their self-esteem. I
              also wonder if many of them have thought hard about the difference.

              Deborah

              Deborah J. Shepherd, Ph.D.
              Anthropology and Sociology
              Anoka-Ramsey Community College
              Coon Rapids Campus
              email: deborah.shepherd@... <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>
              http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/ <http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/>
              new phone number: 763-433-1195

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Deborah Shepherd
              This is an interesting idea, Jason. We re a small group, so maybe a panel discussion with audience input could work. You ll have a better idea when you get
              Message 6 of 24 , Feb 7, 2007
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                This is an interesting idea, Jason. We're a small group, so maybe a
                panel discussion with audience input could work. You'll have a better
                idea when you get there. I bet that you could get an impromptu
                discussion going this year, but something more formal could also be put
                into the schedule for next year. Just some thoughts of mine. This
                meeting will only be my second(!)

                See you there,
                Deborah

                Deborah J. Shepherd, Ph.D.
                Anthropology and Sociology
                Anoka-Ramsey Community College
                Coon Rapids Campus
                email: deborah.shepherd@...
                http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/
                new phone number: 763-433-1195
                >>> wenzelj@... 02/07/07 3:56 PM >>>
                I am interested in attending this year's annual meeting (it will be my
                first).

                I would really like to see some sort of workshop or focus group
                addressing fundamentalism/religion/evolution in the classroom.

                Jason

                Valencia & Brevard Community Colleges
                Florida

                ________________________________

                From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Deborah Shepherd
                Sent: Wed 2/7/2007 2:17 PM
                To: blynch@...; SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today



                It's sad to have to worry about the safety of some of our most important
                fossils while in their own homeland of Kenya. One hopes that the museum
                has exceptional security.

                Could it be that many evangelicals the world wide would be happier if
                we just said that modern humans are "ascended" from apes rather than
                descended? Sometimes I wonder how much of the objection is truly
                theological and how much is pure basic insult to their self-esteem. I
                also wonder if many of them have thought hard about the difference.

                Deborah

                Deborah J. Shepherd, Ph.D.
                Anthropology and Sociology
                Anoka-Ramsey Community College
                Coon Rapids Campus
                email: deborah.shepherd@...
                <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>
                http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/
                <http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/>
                new phone number: 763-433-1195

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • rls@linkline.com
                Since I m still putting the program together for this year, I could try to work this in. Jason -- are you volunteering to chair the session? :) --Becky ...
                Message 7 of 24 , Feb 7, 2007
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                  Since I'm still putting the program together for this year, I could try to
                  work this in.

                  Jason -- are you volunteering to chair the session? :)

                  --Becky




                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  Deborah Shepherd
                  Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 8:40 PM
                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today



                  This is an interesting idea, Jason. We're a small group, so maybe a
                  panel discussion with audience input could work. You'll have a better
                  idea when you get there. I bet that you could get an impromptu
                  discussion going this year, but something more formal could also be put
                  into the schedule for next year. Just some thoughts of mine. This
                  meeting will only be my second(!)

                  See you there,
                  Deborah

                  Deborah J. Shepherd, Ph.D.
                  Anthropology and Sociology
                  Anoka-Ramsey Community College
                  Coon Rapids Campus
                  email: deborah.shepherd@ <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>
                  anokaramsey.edu
                  http://webs. <http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/>
                  anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/
                  new phone number: 763-433-1195
                  >>> wenzelj@brevardcc. <mailto:wenzelj%40brevardcc.edu> edu 02/07/07 3:56 PM
                  >>>
                  I am interested in attending this year's annual meeting (it will be my
                  first).

                  I would really like to see some sort of workshop or focus group
                  addressing fundamentalism/religion/evolution in the classroom.

                  Jason

                  Valencia & Brevard Community Colleges
                  Florida

                  ________________________________

                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> com on behalf of
                  Deborah Shepherd
                  Sent: Wed 2/7/2007 2:17 PM
                  To: blynch@qvcc. <mailto:blynch%40qvcc.commnet.edu> commnet.edu;
                  SACC-L@yahoogroups. <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> com
                  Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today

                  It's sad to have to worry about the safety of some of our most important
                  fossils while in their own homeland of Kenya. One hopes that the museum
                  has exceptional security.

                  Could it be that many evangelicals the world wide would be happier if
                  we just said that modern humans are "ascended" from apes rather than
                  descended? Sometimes I wonder how much of the objection is truly
                  theological and how much is pure basic insult to their self-esteem. I
                  also wonder if many of them have thought hard about the difference.

                  Deborah

                  Deborah J. Shepherd, Ph.D.
                  Anthropology and Sociology
                  Anoka-Ramsey Community College
                  Coon Rapids Campus
                  email: deborah.shepherd@ <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>
                  anokaramsey.edu
                  <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu>
                  http://webs. <http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/>
                  anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/
                  <http://webs. <http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/>
                  anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/>
                  new phone number: 763-433-1195

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • frank lagana
                  ... From: Deborah Shepherd To: ; Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:17
                  Message 8 of 24 , Feb 8, 2007
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                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Deborah Shepherd" <deborah.shepherd@...>
                    To: <blynch@...>; <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:17 PM
                    Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today


                    > Could it be that many evangelicals the world wide would be happier if
                    > we just said that modern humans are "ascended" from apes rather than
                    > descended? Sometimes I wonder how much of the objection is truly
                    > theological and how much is pure basic insult to their self-esteem. I
                    > also wonder if many of them have thought hard about the difference.
                    >
                    >
                    Perhaps it's the grimness of a cold February, or maybe I've just been at
                    this for too long, but I wonder if anyone would like to share some thoughts
                    on how to deal with the topic of evolution in introductory courses. For
                    example, how do we deal with a student (actually more than just one today
                    but one woman in particular) who insisted (very belligerently) that fossils
                    are fakes. As she put it, "I'm a Christian so I have to believe they're
                    fakes". After 33 years of listening to nonsense like this, I'm finding it
                    increasingly difficult to maintain the proper academic demeanor. Of course,
                    the rest of the class was looking up at me waiting to see how I'd handle the
                    situation (it's the first week of the semester so they're still checking me
                    out). I'm sure that those of you who teach in other parts of the country
                    also are faced with this type of thing on a regular basis.
                    After several minutes of politely listening to this particular student, and
                    trying my best to remain reasonably calm in my answers to her, I finally
                    abruptly ended the
                    discussion, with the suggestion that it was obvious that nothing I could
                    possibly say would ever have any effect on her.
                    Anyone have any thoughts about ways to deal with all of this in a better way
                    than I think I did tonight?

                    Frank Lagana
                    Dept of Social Sciences
                    Queensborough Community College
                  • Katrina Worley
                    ... I ve had similar situations in my classes. I teach Intro to Physical and the associated lab class in central California. We have a large population of
                    Message 9 of 24 , Feb 8, 2007
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                      On Feb 8, 2007, at 8:15 PM, frank lagana wrote:

                      > Perhaps it's the grimness of a cold February, or maybe I've just
                      > been at
                      > this for too long, but I wonder if anyone would like to share some
                      > thoughts
                      > on how to deal with the topic of evolution in introductory courses.
                      > For
                      > example, how do we deal with a student (actually more than just one
                      > today
                      > but one woman in particular) who insisted (very belligerently) that
                      > fossils
                      > are fakes. As she put it, "I'm a Christian so I have to believe
                      > they're
                      > fakes". After 33 years of listening to nonsense like this, I'm
                      > finding it
                      > increasingly difficult to maintain the proper academic demeanor. Of
                      > course,
                      > the rest of the class was looking up at me waiting to see how I'd
                      > handle the
                      > situation (it's the first week of the semester so they're still
                      > checking me
                      > out). I'm sure that those of you who teach in other parts of the
                      > country
                      > also are faced with this type of thing on a regular basis.
                      > After several minutes of politely listening to this particular
                      > student, and
                      > trying my best to remain reasonably calm in my answers to her, I
                      > finally
                      > abruptly ended the
                      > discussion, with the suggestion that it was obvious that nothing I
                      > could
                      > possibly say would ever have any effect on her.
                      > Anyone have any thoughts about ways to deal with all of this in a
                      > better way
                      > than I think I did tonight?

                      I've had similar situations in my classes. I teach Intro to Physical
                      and the associated lab class in central California. We have a large
                      population of conservative Christians in our area. My way of
                      handling situations like this is to head it off at the pass. On the
                      first day of class while we're going over the syllabus I remind the
                      students that they signed up for the class after having read the
                      course description. They did so knowing that the course dealt with
                      human evolution. I then inform the student that I don't care what
                      they believe (and I don't- it's not my concern). In order to pass my
                      course, however, they do have to understand what *science* has to say
                      about evolution. In the same way that I don't care what they
                      believe, I don't want to know what their minister, pastor or priest
                      says about evolution. This is not a course on "religious views of
                      evolution". This is a science class. They have to understand the
                      science in order to pass the course. What they believe is their
                      issue. I think this approach alleviates their fear that I'm trying to
                      convert them. I'm telling them up front that I don't care if they
                      retain their beliefs, while letting them know in advance that they
                      may not use those beliefs to disrupt my classroom.

                      Several years ago I had one student who began every response to every
                      question with the phrase "according to scientists...", or "scientists
                      think..." At the end of the semester, however, we were talking
                      during the open lab session before the final. I had out the range of
                      hominids, and a chimp and a modern human skull as comparisons (a
                      student asked about whether A. afarensis was all that different from
                      a chimp). Someone lined the hominids up chronologically and then
                      bracketed them with the chimp and modern human. My creationist
                      student looked at the sequence and said... "the Bible tells us that
                      God used a rib from Adam to make Eve. Maybe God used an animal like
                      a chimp to make us." Not perfect, but at least she was open to the
                      idea.

                      Katrina

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Mark Lewine
                      I think that we have a unique opportunity to engage clergy as well as students in science education with the Race Project moving around the country for the
                      Message 10 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
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                        I think that we have a unique opportunity to engage clergy as well as students in 'science education' with the Race Project moving around the country for the next several years. For example, most of my students with 'creationist' issues mystifying their ability to think in my courses are African-American and Latino with trust in ignorant clergy. When the Race Project comes to Cleveland, I am planning to invite groups of these clergy to view and discuss the exhibit information on the human genome and its significance as an 'anti-racist' educational source. This should begin to change their perspective on science and evolution. This is only one example of techniques we can discuss at our meeting for dealing with the problem that most of us face in teaching human origins.
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Katrina Worley
                        To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 12:35 AM
                        Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today


                        On Feb 8, 2007, at 8:15 PM, frank lagana wrote:

                        > Perhaps it's the grimness of a cold February, or maybe I've just
                        > been at
                        > this for too long, but I wonder if anyone would like to share some
                        > thoughts
                        > on how to deal with the topic of evolution in introductory courses.
                        > For
                        > example, how do we deal with a student (actually more than just one
                        > today
                        > but one woman in particular) who insisted (very belligerently) that
                        > fossils
                        > are fakes. As she put it, "I'm a Christian so I have to believe
                        > they're
                        > fakes". After 33 years of listening to nonsense like this, I'm
                        > finding it
                        > increasingly difficult to maintain the proper academic demeanor. Of
                        > course,
                        > the rest of the class was looking up at me waiting to see how I'd
                        > handle the
                        > situation (it's the first week of the semester so they're still
                        > checking me
                        > out). I'm sure that those of you who teach in other parts of the
                        > country
                        > also are faced with this type of thing on a regular basis.
                        > After several minutes of politely listening to this particular
                        > student, and
                        > trying my best to remain reasonably calm in my answers to her, I
                        > finally
                        > abruptly ended the
                        > discussion, with the suggestion that it was obvious that nothing I
                        > could
                        > possibly say would ever have any effect on her.
                        > Anyone have any thoughts about ways to deal with all of this in a
                        > better way
                        > than I think I did tonight?

                        I've had similar situations in my classes. I teach Intro to Physical
                        and the associated lab class in central California. We have a large
                        population of conservative Christians in our area. My way of
                        handling situations like this is to head it off at the pass. On the
                        first day of class while we're going over the syllabus I remind the
                        students that they signed up for the class after having read the
                        course description. They did so knowing that the course dealt with
                        human evolution. I then inform the student that I don't care what
                        they believe (and I don't- it's not my concern). In order to pass my
                        course, however, they do have to understand what *science* has to say
                        about evolution. In the same way that I don't care what they
                        believe, I don't want to know what their minister, pastor or priest
                        says about evolution. This is not a course on "religious views of
                        evolution". This is a science class. They have to understand the
                        science in order to pass the course. What they believe is their
                        issue. I think this approach alleviates their fear that I'm trying to
                        convert them. I'm telling them up front that I don't care if they
                        retain their beliefs, while letting them know in advance that they
                        may not use those beliefs to disrupt my classroom.

                        Several years ago I had one student who began every response to every
                        question with the phrase "according to scientists...", or "scientists
                        think..." At the end of the semester, however, we were talking
                        during the open lab session before the final. I had out the range of
                        hominids, and a chimp and a modern human skull as comparisons (a
                        student asked about whether A. afarensis was all that different from
                        a chimp). Someone lined the hominids up chronologically and then
                        bracketed them with the chimp and modern human. My creationist
                        student looked at the sequence and said... "the Bible tells us that
                        God used a rib from Adam to make Eve. Maybe God used an animal like
                        a chimp to make us." Not perfect, but at least she was open to the
                        idea.

                        Katrina

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • anthropmor@AOL.COM
                        In a message dated 2/8/2007 10:26:29 P.M. Central Standard Time, frankL@worldnet.att.net writes: As she put it, I m a Christian so I have to believe they re
                        Message 11 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
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                          In a message dated 2/8/2007 10:26:29 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                          frankL@... writes:

                          As she put it, "I'm a Christian so I have to believe they're
                          fakes". After 33 years of listening to nonsense like this, I'm finding it
                          increasingly difficult to maintain


                          I know this situation well- when the fossils are attacked, I ask them to
                          explain living forms.

                          My favorite tactic, however, is to ask them if they have seen an electron.
                          Then I explain that this class is just like physics- I don't care if they
                          believe in electrons in their hearts - here is the info we have amassed, and
                          that is what the class is about.
                          Also, being a christian in general, does not require them not to believe
                          in evolution.
                          Mike Pavlik


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • anthropmor@AOL.COM
                          In a message dated 2/8/2007 11:42:13 P.M. Central Standard Time, worleyk@gmail.com writes: They did so knowing that the course dealt with human evolution. I
                          Message 12 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            In a message dated 2/8/2007 11:42:13 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                            worleyk@... writes:

                            They did so knowing that the course dealt with
                            human evolution. I then inform the student that I don't care what
                            they believe (and I don't- it's not my concern). In order to pass my
                            course, however, they do have to understand what *science* has to say
                            about evolution. In the same way that I don't care what they
                            believe, I don't want to know what their minister, pastor or priest
                            says about evolution


                            Wow- great way to beat me to the punch!
                            Nicely written!
                            Mike Pavlik


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Dorothy Davis DDBRUNER
                            Frank, I teach in the Bible Belt and I handle the issue this way. When I am teaching our 4 fields course (in the cultural section, which I do first) I
                            Message 13 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Frank,
                              I teach in the Bible Belt and I handle the issue this way.
                              When I am teaching our 4 fields course (in the cultural section, which I
                              do first) I introduce the concept of three kinds of knowledge: Common
                              sense knowledge, religious knowledge- based on faith- and scientific
                              knowledge. I give examples and then proceed to explain the scientific
                              method. There are usually no problems with this. When we get to evolution
                              and someone begins to challenge it for religious reasons , I just point
                              out that they are using religious knowledge and not scientific knowledge,
                              and then I explain why. That seems to satisfy them (since they think that
                              religious trumps scientific knowledge anyways).


                              But then you may try the approach of one of my colleagues. She goes into
                              class the first day with a big Intro to Physical text, holds it up and
                              drops it on the floor several times.....a good start for explaining the
                              scientific method and testibility and verifiability.

                              Dorothy Davis
                              Anthropology Department
                              UNCG
                              Tel- 256-1099



                              "frank lagana" <frankL@...>
                              Sent by: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                              02/08/2007 11:15 PM
                              Please respond to
                              SACC-L@yahoogroups.com


                              To
                              <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                              cc

                              Subject
                              Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today







                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Deborah Shepherd" <deborah.shepherd@...>
                              To: <blynch@...>; <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:17 PM
                              Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today

                              > Could it be that many evangelicals the world wide would be happier if
                              > we just said that modern humans are "ascended" from apes rather than
                              > descended? Sometimes I wonder how much of the objection is truly
                              > theological and how much is pure basic insult to their self-esteem. I
                              > also wonder if many of them have thought hard about the difference.
                              >
                              >
                              Perhaps it's the grimness of a cold February, or maybe I've just been at
                              this for too long, but I wonder if anyone would like to share some
                              thoughts
                              on how to deal with the topic of evolution in introductory courses. For
                              example, how do we deal with a student (actually more than just one today
                              but one woman in particular) who insisted (very belligerently) that
                              fossils
                              are fakes. As she put it, "I'm a Christian so I have to believe they're
                              fakes". After 33 years of listening to nonsense like this, I'm finding it
                              increasingly difficult to maintain the proper academic demeanor. Of
                              course,
                              the rest of the class was looking up at me waiting to see how I'd handle
                              the
                              situation (it's the first week of the semester so they're still checking
                              me
                              out). I'm sure that those of you who teach in other parts of the country
                              also are faced with this type of thing on a regular basis.
                              After several minutes of politely listening to this particular student,
                              and
                              trying my best to remain reasonably calm in my answers to her, I finally
                              abruptly ended the
                              discussion, with the suggestion that it was obvious that nothing I could
                              possibly say would ever have any effect on her.
                              Anyone have any thoughts about ways to deal with all of this in a better
                              way
                              than I think I did tonight?

                              Frank Lagana
                              Dept of Social Sciences
                              Queensborough Community College




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Philip Stein
                              We have relatively few problems in this area. I think it is in large part because we ve renamed the course Human Biological Evolution. So students know
                              Message 14 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                We have relatively few problems in this area. I think it is in large part because we've renamed the course "Human Biological Evolution." So students know exactly what the course is about, rather than signing up for Physical Anthropolgy (What the hell is that!) and then discovering on the first day that it's a course in human evolution. (We know that students do not read the catalog; they select courses based on course title or from a laundry list of courses that satisfy a particular gen ed requirement. Luckily, our field begins with an A!)

                                I do teach Intelligent Design, both the controvery and the concept. Of course, like all ideas, I critique the concept and, I must confess, ID doesn't come out looking all that well. I emphasize that the problem is that ID is simply not science. But I respect their belief systems, at least publically. I just make it clear that since our course fulfills a natural science gen ed requirement, we must deal with science. The nature of the supernatural is appropriate for our Anthropology of Religion, Magic, and Witchcraft course.

                                Phil


                                anthropmor@... wrote:

                                In a message dated 2/8/2007 11:42:13 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                                worleyk@... writes:

                                They did so knowing that the course dealt with
                                human evolution. I then inform the student that I don't care what
                                they believe (and I don't- it's not my concern). In order to pass my
                                course, however, they do have to understand what *science* has to say
                                about evolution. In the same way that I don't care what they
                                believe, I don't want to know what their minister, pastor or priest
                                says about evolution


                                Wow- great way to beat me to the punch!
                                Nicely written!
                                Mike Pavlik


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                Be sure to check out the SACC web page at www.anthro.cc (NOTE THE NEW ADDRESS!!) for meeting materials, newsletters, etc.
                                Yahoo! Groups Links






                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Dianne Chidester
                                I use the charts from this article, even in my sociology classes. Many of my students don t understand the differences between science and religion. I use
                                Message 15 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I use the charts from this article, even in my sociology classes. Many
                                  of my students don't understand the differences between science and
                                  religion. I use the flow chart to demonstrate the scientific method and
                                  use recent news to show how it works. (I've been using the example of
                                  Celebrex and Vioxx as how the systems works. We keep doing experiments
                                  and when we realize there are problems, we revise or throw out and start
                                  over. This example works well because I can talk about how bias, in
                                  this case money, can corrupt the scientific method if we're not ethical
                                  scientists.)



                                  Then I go on to the characteristics of science, pseudoscience, and
                                  religion. Some students will try to argue with me trying to "prove
                                  God." Then I ask them, "If you have faith, why do you need proof?
                                  Isn't faith about not needing proof?"



                                  Science vs. religion: teach the difference, resolve the conflict -
                                  Special Issue: Science and Religion: Conflict or Conciliation?

                                  Skeptical Inquirer <http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843> ,
                                  July-August, 1999
                                  <http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_23> by Zoran
                                  Pazameta
                                  <http://www.findarticles.com/p/search?tb=art&qt=%22Zoran+Pazameta%22>





                                  I'm trying to find the entire article online, but haven't been able to.
                                  I'll keep trying to find the charts he uses. If I can't find them, I'll
                                  type them and send them out if folks are interested.



                                  Cheers!

                                  Dianne





                                  ________________________________

                                  From: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SACC-L@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                  Of Dorothy Davis DDBRUNER
                                  Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 9:57 AM
                                  To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today



                                  Frank,
                                  I teach in the Bible Belt and I handle the issue this way.
                                  When I am teaching our 4 fields course (in the cultural section, which I

                                  do first) I introduce the concept of three kinds of knowledge: Common
                                  sense knowledge, religious knowledge- based on faith- and scientific
                                  knowledge. I give examples and then proceed to explain the scientific
                                  method. There are usually no problems with this. When we get to
                                  evolution
                                  and someone begins to challenge it for religious reasons , I just point
                                  out that they are using religious knowledge and not scientific
                                  knowledge,
                                  and then I explain why. That seems to satisfy them (since they think
                                  that
                                  religious trumps scientific knowledge anyways).


                                  But then you may try the approach of one of my colleagues. She goes into

                                  class the first day with a big Intro to Physical text, holds it up and
                                  drops it on the floor several times.....a good start for explaining the
                                  scientific method and testibility and verifiability.

                                  Dorothy Davis
                                  Anthropology Department
                                  UNCG
                                  Tel- 256-1099

                                  "frank lagana" <frankL@...
                                  <mailto:frankL%40worldnet.att.net> >
                                  Sent by: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  02/08/2007 11:15 PM
                                  Please respond to
                                  SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com>

                                  To
                                  <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> >
                                  cc

                                  Subject
                                  Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Deborah Shepherd" <deborah.shepherd@...
                                  <mailto:deborah.shepherd%40anokaramsey.edu> >
                                  To: <blynch@... <mailto:blynch%40qvcc.commnet.edu> >;
                                  <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com <mailto:SACC-L%40yahoogroups.com> >
                                  Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:17 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today

                                  > Could it be that many evangelicals the world wide would be happier if
                                  > we just said that modern humans are "ascended" from apes rather than
                                  > descended? Sometimes I wonder how much of the objection is truly
                                  > theological and how much is pure basic insult to their self-esteem. I
                                  > also wonder if many of them have thought hard about the difference.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  Perhaps it's the grimness of a cold February, or maybe I've just been at
                                  this for too long, but I wonder if anyone would like to share some
                                  thoughts
                                  on how to deal with the topic of evolution in introductory courses. For
                                  example, how do we deal with a student (actually more than just one
                                  today
                                  but one woman in particular) who insisted (very belligerently) that
                                  fossils
                                  are fakes. As she put it, "I'm a Christian so I have to believe they're
                                  fakes". After 33 years of listening to nonsense like this, I'm finding
                                  it
                                  increasingly difficult to maintain the proper academic demeanor. Of
                                  course,
                                  the rest of the class was looking up at me waiting to see how I'd handle

                                  the
                                  situation (it's the first week of the semester so they're still checking

                                  me
                                  out). I'm sure that those of you who teach in other parts of the country
                                  also are faced with this type of thing on a regular basis.
                                  After several minutes of politely listening to this particular student,
                                  and
                                  trying my best to remain reasonably calm in my answers to her, I finally

                                  abruptly ended the
                                  discussion, with the suggestion that it was obvious that nothing I could
                                  possibly say would ever have any effect on her.
                                  Anyone have any thoughts about ways to deal with all of this in a better

                                  way
                                  than I think I did tonight?

                                  Frank Lagana
                                  Dept of Social Sciences
                                  Queensborough Community College

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                  This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. This mail message has been scanned for virus and malware and is free of such to the best of this sending sites ability and knowledge.


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Lloyd Miller
                                  Regarding Frank s student who said, I m a Christian so I have to believe they re fakes, it might be helpful to show students that the majority of mainstream
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
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                                    Regarding Frank's student who said, "I'm a Christian so I have to
                                    believe they're fakes," it might be helpful to show students that the
                                    majority of mainstream Christian denominations do not reject science
                                    and evolution. In his article on Intelligent Design (SACC Notes,
                                    Vol. 11, No. 2, spring 2005), Len Lieberman gives examples and
                                    provides some sources for this. I also mention it briefly in my
                                    primer on evolution and ID (SACC Notes, Vol. 12, No. 2, spring 2006).
                                    Lloyd



                                    On Feb 9, 2007, at 9:06 AM, Philip Stein wrote:

                                    > We have relatively few problems in this area. I think it is in
                                    > large part because we've renamed the course "Human Biological
                                    > Evolution." So students know exactly what the course is about,
                                    > rather than signing up for Physical Anthropolgy (What the hell is
                                    > that!) and then discovering on the first day that it's a course in
                                    > human evolution. (We know that students do not read the catalog;
                                    > they select courses based on course title or from a laundry list of
                                    > courses that satisfy a particular gen ed requirement. Luckily, our
                                    > field begins with an A!)
                                    >
                                    > I do teach Intelligent Design, both the controvery and the concept.
                                    > Of course, like all ideas, I critique the concept and, I must
                                    > confess, ID doesn't come out looking all that well. I emphasize
                                    > that the problem is that ID is simply not science. But I respect
                                    > their belief systems, at least publically. I just make it clear
                                    > that since our course fulfills a natural science gen ed
                                    > requirement, we must deal with science. The nature of the
                                    > supernatural is appropriate for our Anthropology of Religion,
                                    > Magic, and Witchcraft course.
                                    >
                                    > Phil
                                    >
                                    > anthropmor@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > In a message dated 2/8/2007 11:42:13 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                                    > worleyk@... writes:
                                    >
                                    > They did so knowing that the course dealt with
                                    > human evolution. I then inform the student that I don't care what
                                    > they believe (and I don't- it's not my concern). In order to pass my
                                    > course, however, they do have to understand what *science* has to say
                                    > about evolution. In the same way that I don't care what they
                                    > believe, I don't want to know what their minister, pastor or priest
                                    > says about evolution
                                    >
                                    > Wow- great way to beat me to the punch!
                                    > Nicely written!
                                    > Mike Pavlik
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    > Be sure to check out the SACC web page at www.anthro.cc (NOTE THE
                                    > NEW ADDRESS!!) for meeting materials, newsletters, etc.
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Dianne Chidester
                                    One of my favorite editorial cartoons by Nick Anderson. I hope the address works! http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/store/add.php?iid=11168 In the interest of
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
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                                      One of my favorite editorial cartoons by Nick Anderson. I hope the
                                      address works!





                                      http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/store/add.php?iid=11168



                                      "In the interest of teaching 'both sides,' I thought I'd give equal time
                                      to the theory of evolution..."



                                      Cheers!

                                      Dianne


                                      This electronic mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. This mail message has been scanned for virus and malware and is free of such to the best of this sending sites ability and knowledge.


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • bdlqvcc
                                      To paraphrase (I think it was) Frank, an anthro class is not a theology class; it is about science. Granted. But then, a student who says I m a Christian. I
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
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                                        To paraphrase (I think it was) Frank, an anthro class is not a
                                        theology class; it is about science. Granted.

                                        But then, a student who says "I'm a Christian. I can't believe in
                                        the science of evolution. I have to believe in the Biblical
                                        account," is either not accepting the fundamental premise that
                                        you/we have set in such a class--"we do science here"--or hasn't
                                        really thought about it yet and all its implications (such as "why
                                        am I in this class then, if I don't accept its basic foundation?")

                                        Mike, then, makes another point: "being a christian in general, does
                                        not require them not to believe in evolution." The
                                        objective "social fact" is that there are people all over the place
                                        who consider themeselves "good Christians," who also understand and
                                        accept the science of evolution. You could, of course, point this
                                        out to such a student who otherwise makes the matter of fact
                                        statement "I'm a Christian. I can't believe in evolution..." At
                                        least initially this may do no more for such a student than to
                                        confirm that there are lots of "lost Christians" out there!

                                        But then, as a cultural anthropologist, I often think of it this
                                        way: My task in such a class is to invite people into what for many
                                        might be a foreign "culture" (scientific anthropology). They are
                                        going to be invited and asked to explore, observe, and learn to
                                        understand this foreign culture, not to necessarily give up their
                                        own culture, but to be able, at least, to return to that culture
                                        with a better understanding of this one (the discipline of
                                        anthropology). It is what anthropology itself is about, and I have
                                        often thought about how my classes should model the discipline's
                                        approach.

                                        When we get in to this discussion it always makes me think of
                                        an "over the cubicle walls" discussion between two mentors of mine
                                        in grad school; one was a fairly liberal, Irish, Catholic priest and
                                        the other was Hindu. Both taught "theology." One day after about
                                        10 minutes of Santosh talking about some aspect of comparative
                                        religion and social justice, Fr. Paul commented over the
                                        wall, "Well, Toshi, for someone who believes none of this is real,
                                        you have an awful lot to say about it!" They both let out a roar of
                                        laughter (as did those of us in surrounding cubicles) and their rich
                                        theological discussion continued. He still spoke from his religious
                                        perspective, but with all the critical and scholarly acumen he was
                                        so well known for, and she from her equally respected background as
                                        a Hindu scholar.

                                        At the intro level it is sometimes difficult to imagine students
                                        somehow reaching this eventual level of skill, ability,
                                        understanding, and mutual respect (and many may not). But for me it
                                        is at least an important model that I keep in mind when I try to
                                        imagine what I am attempting to share (and why) with students.

                                        Brian


                                        --- In SACC-L@yahoogroups.com, anthropmor@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > In a message dated 2/8/2007 10:26:29 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                                        > frankL@... writes:
                                        >
                                        > As she put it, "I'm a Christian so I have to believe they're
                                        > fakes". After 33 years of listening to nonsense like this, I'm
                                        finding it
                                        > increasingly difficult to maintain
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I know this situation well- when the fossils are attacked, I ask
                                        them to
                                        > explain living forms.
                                        >
                                        > My favorite tactic, however, is to ask them if they have seen
                                        an electron.
                                        > Then I explain that this class is just like physics- I don't
                                        care if they
                                        > believe in electrons in their hearts - here is the info we have
                                        amassed, and
                                        > that is what the class is about.
                                        > Also, being a christian in general, does not require them not
                                        to believe
                                        > in evolution.
                                        > Mike Pavlik
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • Tbbyrnehom@aol.com
                                        Hello SACCERS, I invite you to look at a nice web site for an application of technology and education for Anthropology. _http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/_
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
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                                          Hello SACCERS, I invite you to look at a nice web site for an application
                                          of technology and education for Anthropology.
                                          _http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/_ (http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/) clik on Journey of Mankind,
                                          from Oppenheimer's book on DNA showing the migration patterns around the world
                                          with a nice timeline.
                                          We have come a long way from the old overhead projector. And regarding
                                          teaching evolution to Biblical fundamentalist....I asked students if they can
                                          know something without believing it to be "TRUE". They always said yes. I told
                                          them I was teaching evolution as information and not testing them on what
                                          ever they believed. Bill Byrne, Happily retired.


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Deborah Shepherd
                                          My sympathies. I ve been there. Believers can have their beliefs, but by being belligerent in her argument, she was being disrespectful of you and the
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            My sympathies. I've been there. "Believers" can have their beliefs, but by being belligerent in her argument, she was being disrespectful of you and the class--which is a point you shouldn't forget. I'll let any student have their say just once and to the point, if that makes them feel better. I try to focus on:
                                            1. No one is required to take my class.
                                            2. I teach science, not religion.
                                            3. If her statement has to begin, "I believe," then it isn't science.
                                            4. The other students have registered for (and paid for) a class in anthropology, so it is time to talk about anthropology.
                                            5. All students in the class need to respect that your job (for which you are paid) is to teach them anthropology.

                                            I have found that if I am firm, the other students, if they say anything, express relief (privately) that I finished that particularly discussion quickly. But there are always the worst-case scenarios.

                                            Maybe your next lecture could start immediately with a review of scientific method: data, observations, and testable hypotheses. Or maybe you've done that already! Or you could have them all write an impromptu essay about why they are in the class and what they hope to learn. You may find the results encouraging, or amusing, if nothing else.

                                            I keep telling myself, if I make just one of the "I'm religious" students think twice about evolution vs. their biblical certainties, then I've had success.

                                            Deborah

                                            >>> frankL@... 2/8/2007 10:15 PM >>>


                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Deborah Shepherd" <deborah.shepherd@...>
                                            To: <blynch@...>; <SACC-L@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:17 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today

                                            > Could it be that many evangelicals the world wide would be happier if
                                            > we just said that modern humans are "ascended" from apes rather than
                                            > descended? Sometimes I wonder how much of the objection is truly
                                            > theological and how much is pure basic insult to their self-esteem. I
                                            > also wonder if many of them have thought hard about the difference.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            Perhaps it's the grimness of a cold February, or maybe I've just been at
                                            this for too long, but I wonder if anyone would like to share some thoughts
                                            on how to deal with the topic of evolution in introductory courses. For
                                            example, how do we deal with a student (actually more than just one today
                                            but one woman in particular) who insisted (very belligerently) that fossils
                                            are fakes. As she put it, "I'm a Christian so I have to believe they're
                                            fakes". After 33 years of listening to nonsense like this, I'm finding it
                                            increasingly difficult to maintain the proper academic demeanor. Of course,
                                            the rest of the class was looking up at me waiting to see how I'd handle the
                                            situation (it's the first week of the semester so they're still checking me
                                            out). I'm sure that those of you who teach in other parts of the country
                                            also are faced with this type of thing on a regular basis.
                                            After several minutes of politely listening to this particular student, and
                                            trying my best to remain reasonably calm in my answers to her, I finally
                                            abruptly ended the
                                            discussion, with the suggestion that it was obvious that nothing I could
                                            possibly say would ever have any effect on her.
                                            Anyone have any thoughts about ways to deal with all of this in a better way
                                            than I think I did tonight?

                                            Frank Lagana
                                            Dept of Social Sciences
                                            Queensborough Community College





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Deborah Shepherd
                                            That s a great idea! Deborah J. Shepherd, Ph.D. Anthropology and Sociology Anoka-Ramsey Community College Coon Rapids Campus email:
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              That's a great idea!

                                              Deborah J. Shepherd, Ph.D.
                                              Anthropology and Sociology
                                              Anoka-Ramsey Community College
                                              Coon Rapids Campus
                                              email: deborah.shepherd@...
                                              http://webs.anokaramsey.edu/shepherd/
                                              new phone number: 763-433-1195

                                              >>> mlewine@... 2/9/2007 5:54 AM >>>

                                              I think that we have a unique opportunity to engage clergy as well as students in 'science education' with the Race Project moving around the country for the next several years. For example, most of my students with 'creationist' issues mystifying their ability to think in my courses are African-American and Latino with trust in ignorant clergy. When the Race Project comes to Cleveland, I am planning to invite groups of these clergy to view and discuss the exhibit information on the human genome and its significance as an 'anti-racist' educational source. This should begin to change their perspective on science and evolution. This is only one example of techniques we can discuss at our meeting for dealing with the problem that most of us face in teaching human origins.
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Katrina Worley
                                              To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 12:35 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [SACC-L] Interesting news item today

                                              On Feb 8, 2007, at 8:15 PM, frank lagana wrote:

                                              > Perhaps it's the grimness of a cold February, or maybe I've just
                                              > been at
                                              > this for too long, but I wonder if anyone would like to share some
                                              > thoughts
                                              > on how to deal with the topic of evolution in introductory courses.
                                              > For
                                              > example, how do we deal with a student (actually more than just one
                                              > today
                                              > but one woman in particular) who insisted (very belligerently) that
                                              > fossils
                                              > are fakes. As she put it, "I'm a Christian so I have to believe
                                              > they're
                                              > fakes". After 33 years of listening to nonsense like this, I'm
                                              > finding it
                                              > increasingly difficult to maintain the proper academic demeanor. Of
                                              > course,
                                              > the rest of the class was looking up at me waiting to see how I'd
                                              > handle the
                                              > situation (it's the first week of the semester so they're still
                                              > checking me
                                              > out). I'm sure that those of you who teach in other parts of the
                                              > country
                                              > also are faced with this type of thing on a regular basis.
                                              > After several minutes of politely listening to this particular
                                              > student, and
                                              > trying my best to remain reasonably calm in my answers to her, I
                                              > finally
                                              > abruptly ended the
                                              > discussion, with the suggestion that it was obvious that nothing I
                                              > could
                                              > possibly say would ever have any effect on her.
                                              > Anyone have any thoughts about ways to deal with all of this in a
                                              > better way
                                              > than I think I did tonight?

                                              I've had similar situations in my classes. I teach Intro to Physical
                                              and the associated lab class in central California. We have a large
                                              population of conservative Christians in our area. My way of
                                              handling situations like this is to head it off at the pass. On the
                                              first day of class while we're going over the syllabus I remind the
                                              students that they signed up for the class after having read the
                                              course description. They did so knowing that the course dealt with
                                              human evolution. I then inform the student that I don't care what
                                              they believe (and I don't- it's not my concern). In order to pass my
                                              course, however, they do have to understand what *science* has to say
                                              about evolution. In the same way that I don't care what they
                                              believe, I don't want to know what their minister, pastor or priest
                                              says about evolution. This is not a course on "religious views of
                                              evolution". This is a science class. They have to understand the
                                              science in order to pass the course. What they believe is their
                                              issue. I think this approach alleviates their fear that I'm trying to
                                              convert them. I'm telling them up front that I don't care if they
                                              retain their beliefs, while letting them know in advance that they
                                              may not use those beliefs to disrupt my classroom.

                                              Several years ago I had one student who began every response to every
                                              question with the phrase "according to scientists...", or "scientists
                                              think..." At the end of the semester, however, we were talking
                                              during the open lab session before the final. I had out the range of
                                              hominids, and a chimp and a modern human skull as comparisons (a
                                              student asked about whether A. afarensis was all that different from
                                              a chimp). Someone lined the hominids up chronologically and then
                                              bracketed them with the chimp and modern human. My creationist
                                              student looked at the sequence and said... "the Bible tells us that
                                              God used a rib from Adam to make Eve. Maybe God used an animal like
                                              a chimp to make us." Not perfect, but at least she was open to the
                                              idea.

                                              Katrina

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Deborah Shepherd
                                              Lloyd, For those of us who don t have SACC notes going back that far, do you have a Word or other digital copy that you can send us privately by request (or
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Feb 9, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Lloyd,
                                                For those of us who don't have SACC notes going back that far, do you have a Word or other digital copy that you can send us privately by request (or however you want to do it)? Or if Len doesn't mind, this might be a great article to publish on our web site.

                                                Deborah

                                                >>> lloyd.miller@... 2/9/2007 9:33 AM >>>

                                                Regarding Frank's student who said, "I'm a Christian so I have to
                                                believe they're fakes," it might be helpful to show students that the
                                                majority of mainstream Christian denominations do not reject science
                                                and evolution. In his article on Intelligent Design (SACC Notes,
                                                Vol. 11, No. 2, spring 2005), Len Lieberman gives examples and
                                                provides some sources for this. I also mention it briefly in my
                                                primer on evolution and ID (SACC Notes, Vol. 12, No. 2, spring 2006).
                                                Lloyd

                                                On Feb 9, 2007, at 9:06 AM, Philip Stein wrote:

                                                > We have relatively few problems in this area. I think it is in
                                                > large part because we've renamed the course "Human Biological
                                                > Evolution." So students know exactly what the course is about,
                                                > rather than signing up for Physical Anthropolgy (What the hell is
                                                > that!) and then discovering on the first day that it's a course in
                                                > human evolution. (We know that students do not read the catalog;
                                                > they select courses based on course title or from a laundry list of
                                                > courses that satisfy a particular gen ed requirement. Luckily, our
                                                > field begins with an A!)
                                                >
                                                > I do teach Intelligent Design, both the controvery and the concept.
                                                > Of course, like all ideas, I critique the concept and, I must
                                                > confess, ID doesn't come out looking all that well. I emphasize
                                                > that the problem is that ID is simply not science. But I respect
                                                > their belief systems, at least publically. I just make it clear
                                                > that since our course fulfills a natural science gen ed
                                                > requirement, we must deal with science. The nature of the
                                                > supernatural is appropriate for our Anthropology of Religion,
                                                > Magic, and Witchcraft course.
                                                >
                                                > Phil
                                                >
                                                > anthropmor@... wrote:
                                                >
                                                > In a message dated 2/8/2007 11:42:13 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                                                > worleyk@... writes:
                                                >
                                                > They did so knowing that the course dealt with
                                                > human evolution. I then inform the student that I don't care what
                                                > they believe (and I don't- it's not my concern). In order to pass my
                                                > course, however, they do have to understand what *science* has to say
                                                > about evolution. In the same way that I don't care what they
                                                > believe, I don't want to know what their minister, pastor or priest
                                                > says about evolution
                                                >
                                                > Wow- great way to beat me to the punch!
                                                > Nicely written!
                                                > Mike Pavlik
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                > Be sure to check out the SACC web page at www.anthro.cc (NOTE THE
                                                > NEW ADDRESS!!) for meeting materials, newsletters, etc.
                                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >

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                                              • Lloyd Miller
                                                Yes, Deborah, I have it on a Word document. I ll send it to you separately and to anyone else who writes for it (and hasn t maintained their SACC Notes issues
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Feb 11, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Yes, Deborah, I have it on a Word document. I'll send it to you
                                                  separately and to anyone else who writes for it (and hasn't
                                                  maintained their SACC Notes issues in gold-embossed, leather-bound
                                                  volumes.).
                                                  Lloyd



                                                  On Feb 9, 2007, at 1:59 PM, Deborah Shepherd wrote:

                                                  > Lloyd,
                                                  > For those of us who don't have SACC notes going back that far, do
                                                  > you have a Word or other digital copy that you can send us
                                                  > privately by request (or however you want to do it)? Or if Len
                                                  > doesn't mind, this might be a great article to publish on our web
                                                  > site.
                                                  >
                                                  > Deborah
                                                  >
                                                  > >>> lloyd.miller@... 2/9/2007 9:33 AM >>>
                                                  >
                                                  > Regarding Frank's student who said, "I'm a Christian so I have to
                                                  > believe they're fakes," it might be helpful to show students that the
                                                  > majority of mainstream Christian denominations do not reject science
                                                  > and evolution. In his article on Intelligent Design (SACC Notes,
                                                  > Vol. 11, No. 2, spring 2005), Len Lieberman gives examples and
                                                  > provides some sources for this. I also mention it briefly in my
                                                  > primer on evolution and ID (SACC Notes, Vol. 12, No. 2, spring 2006).
                                                  > Lloyd



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