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RE: [SACC-L] FW: Kokopelli "our dancing friend......"

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  • Pamela Ford
    I agree, as well. Pam Ford ... From: Robert Muckle [mailto:bmuckle@capcollege.bc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:12 PM To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 4, 2004
      RE: [SACC-L] FW: Kokopelli "our dancing friend......"

      I agree, as well. 

      Pam Ford

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Robert Muckle [mailto:bmuckle@...]
      Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:12 PM
      To: SACC-L@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [SACC-L] FW: Kokopelli "our dancing friend......"

      I agree. 100%. By today's standards (ie. 2004),tIt is unethical and
      inappropriate to use the Kokopelli images without permission. SACC
      should either get permission or use a new image (which Mel Johnson has
      been working on anyway).

      Bob Muckle

      >>> ann.popplestone@... 3/4/2004 11:49:18 AM >>>
      Thoughts and opinions?
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Jan Tucker [mailto:jtucker@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:40 PM
      To: Popplestone, Ann
      Cc: Wolves5149@...; Aimfl@...; Rabeaul@...; Mark Madrid;
      DNarcomey@...
      Subject: Kokopelli "our dancing friend......"


      Dear Ann Popplestone,
       
      I'm writing to comment to Kokopelli image usage for the SACC [image,
      icon, symbol]. An American Indian activist friend sent this webpage to
      me knowing I'm an Applied Cultural Anthropologists.  I read the
      information from the page linked below which discusses "Kokopelli our
      dancing friend....."  written by Karen Yaeger. I can't tell a date for
      this essay, but I accessed it on 3/3/04 at this WWW address
      http://ccanthro.bizland.com/koko.htm
       
      My concern is the use of the image is problematic ethically.
      Considering
      native people's position on the appropriation of their sacred
      spiritual
      practices (and all that goes with this appropriation, in this case
      imagrey of a diety).  I suggest the SACC examin closer the ethics of
      using this image to represent something other than what it is meant to
      represent). I suggest that applied cultural anthropologists show the
      utmost respect and sensitivity to not using inappropriatly sacred
      images
      or becoming part of "the world of kitsch" the Ms. Yeates discusses in
      the quotes below.  It is ethically wrong to appropriate "Kokopelli our
      dancing friend...." from the Hopi people today who "keep their
      religion
      "separare, apart, or "secret"". I suggest we immediately remove the
      cartoonish dancing image of Kokopelli: "...Kokopelli deserve[s] the
      same
      reverence (and respect) that the symbols of Chrisitianity or Judaism
      receive". So in removing the image we then give in action what we give
      in lip serves in this essay: "reverence", "respect" .
       
      See below for quotes in context.
       
      "Apparently, Kokopelli is just as important to the Hopi today, as he
      was
      in the past, he being the important rain priest, associated with the
      locust and found often together with the snake."
       
      "In one respect, I find it curious that no one else attempted to
      discuss
      Kokopelli; perhaps part of the reason is that this is just another
      example of how something sacred has been appropriated into the world
      of
      kitsch. So, it comes as no surprise that the Hopi, from what I
      understand, prefer to keep their religion as separate, apart, or
      "secret" from the contemporary world. Also, it seems important to me
      to
      realize that figures like Kokopelli deserve the same reverence (and
      respect) that the symbols of Christianity or Judaism receive."
       
      Feel Free to Forward, post, share this message widely.
       
      Jan B. Tucker
      jtucker@...
      Adjucnt Professor
      Applied Cultural Anthropologist
      Saine Leo Univeristy and
      Lake City Community College
      Lake City, FL
       
      Support Group Coordinator
      Bell Support Group AIM, FL
      American Indian Movement of Florida
       
       


      Be sure to check out the SACC web page at www.anthro.cc  (NOTE THE NEW ADDRESS!!) for meeting materials, newsletters, etc.

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    • Chidester, Dianne (Jefferson)
      Just to put a little different slant on this... What about all the Indian-made silver with Kokopelli on it? Can one be a non-practicing Indian and it s
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 4, 2004
        Message

        Just to put a little different slant on this…  What about all the Indian-made silver with Kokopelli on it?  Can one be a “non-practicing Indian” and it’s okay to use this symbol for personal gain?  (BTW, I use the term “Indian” because my students in South Dakota and Russell Means told me it was what they preferred.)

         

        This could get interesting!  -- Dianne

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Popplestone, Ann [mailto:ann.popplestone@...]
        Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 2:49 PM
        To: SACC-L (SACC-L)
        Subject: [SACC-L] FW: Kokopelli "our dancing friend......"

         

        Thoughts and opinions?

         

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Jan Tucker [mailto:jtucker@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:40 PM
        To: Popplestone, Ann
        Cc: Wolves5149@...; Aimfl@...; Rabeaul@...; Mark Madrid; DNarcomey@...
        Subject: Kokopelli "our dancing friend......"

        Dear Ann Popplestone,

         

        I'm writing to comment to Kokopelli image usage for the SACC [image, icon, symbol]. An American Indian activist friend sent this webpage to me knowing I'm an Applied Cultural Anthropologists.  I read the information from the page linked below which discusses "Kokopelli our dancing friend....."  written by Karen Yaeger. I can't tell a date for this essay, but I accessed it on 3/3/04 at this WWW address http://ccanthro.bizland.com/koko.htm 

         

        My concern is the use of the image is problematic ethically. Considering native people's position on the appropriation of their sacred spiritual practices (and all that goes with this appropriation, in this case imagrey of a diety).  I suggest the SACC examin closer the ethics of using this image to represent something other than what it is meant to represent). I suggest that applied cultural anthropologists show the utmost respect and sensitivity to not using inappropriatly sacred images or becoming part of "the world of kitsch" the Ms. Yeates discusses in the quotes below.  It is ethically wrong to appropriate "Kokopelli our dancing friend...." from the Hopi people today who "keep their religion "separare, apart, or "secret"". I suggest we immediately remove the cartoonish dancing image of Kokopelli: "...Kokopelli deserve[s] the same reverence (and respect) that the symbols of Chrisitianity or Judaism receive". So in removing the image we then give in action what we give in lip serves in this essay: "reverence", "respect" . 

         

        See below for quotes in context.

         

        "Apparently, Kokopelli is just as important to the Hopi today, as he was in the past, he being the important rain priest, associated with the locust and found often together with the snake."

         

        "In one respect, I find it curious that no one else attempted to discuss Kokopelli; perhaps part of the reason is that this is just another example of how something sacred has been appropriated into the world of kitsch. So, it comes as no surprise that the Hopi, from what I understand, prefer to keep their religion as separate, apart, or "secret" from the contemporary world. Also, it seems important to me to realize that figures like Kokopelli deserve the same reverence (and respect) that the symbols of Christianity or Judaism receive."

         

        Feel Free to Forward, post, share this message widely.

         

        Jan B. Tucker

        jtucker@...

        Adjucnt Professor

        Applied Cultural Anthropologist

        Saine Leo Univeristy and

        Lake City Community College

        Lake City, FL

         

        Support Group Coordinator

        Bell Support Group AIM, FL

        American Indian Movement of Florida

         

         



        Be sure to check out the SACC web page at www.anthro.cc  (NOTE THE NEW ADDRESS!!) for meeting materials, newsletters, etc.



      • Lloyd Miller
        I think Dianne makes an interesting point. Certainly Kokopelli originates as an Indian symbol, but is it a sacred symbol? Should organizations refrain from
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 5, 2004
          I think Dianne makes an interesting point. Certainly Kokopelli
          originates as an Indian symbol, but is it a sacred symbol? Should
          organizations refrain from using any of the ancient rock drawings in
          the event they might have been sacred? Should this restriction apply
          only to non-Indians? Generally, complaints about employing Indian
          symbols or names are made when they're used in a derogatory way or if
          the intent is to demean.

          SACC has used Kokopelli in some form as an icon since the early 90s.
          I'm surprised that no one has questioned this until now (are we that
          obscure?). Before I ceremoniously destroy my SACC coffee cup, I'd like
          to hear more discussion about 1) whether any use of Kokopelli is
          considered unethical or demeaning; 2) whether Kokopelli is a sacred
          symbol and to whom; 3) what evidence supports this, e.g., is it used in
          sacred ceremonies, does its appearance in non-sacred contexts produce
          strong negative emotions, as do the Christian Cross, the Star of David
          or the American flag; 4) would such negative emotions, if they exist,
          apply equally to "non-practicing Indians" as well as to non-Indians;
          5) who would have standing to grant or deny permission for its use.

          Yes, it is indeed interesting!
          Lloyd



          On Thursday, March 4, 2004, at 04:56 PM, Chidester, Dianne
          ((Jefferson)) wrote:

          > Just to put a little different slant on this…  What about all the
          > Indian-made silver with Kokopelli on it?  Can one be a “non-practicing
          > Indian” and it’s okay to use this symbol for personal gain?  (BTW, I
          > use the term “Indian” because my students inSouth Dakotaand Russell
          > Means told me it was what they preferred.)
          >
          >  
          >
          > This could get interesting!  -- Dianne
          >
          >  
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Popplestone, Ann [mailto:ann.popplestone@...]
          > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 2:49 PM
          > To: SACC-L (SACC-L)
          > Subject: [SACC-L] FW: Kokopelli "our dancing friend......"
          >
          >  
          >
          > Thoughts and opinions?
          >
          >  
          >
          >  
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Jan Tucker [mailto:jtucker@...]
          > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:40 PM
          > To: Popplestone, Ann
          > Cc: Wolves5149@...; Aimfl@...; Rabeaul@...; Mark Madrid;
          > DNarcomey@...
          > Subject: Kokopelli "our dancing friend......"
          >
          > Dear AnnPopplestone,
          >
          >  
          >
          > I'm writing to comment to Kokopelli image usage for the SACC [image,
          > icon, symbol]. An American Indian activist friend sent this webpage to
          > me knowing I'm an Applied Cultural Anthropologists.  I read the
          > information from the page linked below which discusses "Kokopelli our
          > dancing friend....."  written by Karen Yaeger. I can't tell a date for
          > this essay, but I accessed it on 3/3/04 at this WWW address
          > http://ccanthro.bizland.com/koko.htm%c2%a0
          >
          >  
          >
          > My concern is the use of the image is problematic ethically.
          > Considering native people's position on the appropriation of their
          > sacred spiritual practices (and all that goes with this appropriation,
          > in this case imagrey of a diety).  I suggest the SACC examin closer
          > the ethics of using this image to represent something other than what
          > it is meant to represent). I suggest that applied cultural
          > anthropologists show the utmost respect and sensitivity to not using
          > inappropriatly sacred images or becoming part of "the world of kitsch"
          > the Ms. Yeates discusses in the quotes below.  It is ethically wrong
          > to appropriate "Kokopelli our dancing friend...." from the Hopi people
          > today who "keep their religion "separare, apart, or "secret"". I
          > suggest we immediately remove the cartoonish dancing image of
          > Kokopelli: "...Kokopelli deserve[s] the same reverence (and respect)
          > that the symbols of Chrisitianity or Judaism receive". So in removing
          > the image we then give in action what we give in lip serves in this
          > essay: "reverence", "respect" . 
          >
          >  
          >
          > See below for quotes in context.
          >
          >  
          >
          > "Apparently, Kokopelli is just as important to the Hopi today, as he
          > was in the past, he being the important rain priest, associated with
          > the locust and found often together with the snake."
          >
          >  
          >
          > "In one respect, I find it curious that no one else attempted to
          > discuss Kokopelli; perhaps part of the reason is that this is just
          > another example of how something sacred has been appropriated into the
          > world of kitsch. So, it comes as no surprise that the Hopi, from what
          > I understand, prefer to keep their religion as separate, apart, or
          > "secret" from the contemporary world. Also, it seems important to me
          > to realize that figures like Kokopelli deserve the same reverence (and
          > respect) that the symbols of Christianity or Judaism receive."
          >
          >  
          >
          > Feel Free to Forward, post, share this message widely.
          >
          >  
          >
          > Jan B. Tucker
          >
          > jtucker@...
          >
          > Adjucnt Professor
          >
          > Applied Cultural Anthropologist
          >
          > Saine Leo Univeristy and
          >
          > Lake City Community College
          >
          > Lake City, FL
          >
          >  
          >
          > Support Group Coordinator
          >
          > Bell Support Group AIM, FL
          >
          > American Indian Movement of Florida
          >
          >  
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > Be sure to check out the SACC web page at www.anthro.cc  (NOTE THE NEW
          > ADDRESS!!) for meeting materials, newsletters, etc.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Be sure to check out the SACC web page at www.anthro.cc  (NOTE THE NEW
          > ADDRESS!!) for meeting materials, newsletters, etc.
          >
          >
          <image.tiff>
          >
          >
          <image.tiff>
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SACC-L/
          >  
          > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > SACC-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >  
          > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
        • Kaupp Ann
          I asked a researcher at the Smithsonian whose expertise is American Indians and he had this to say: ...not only Indians but also New Agers, Chinese
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 5, 2004
            I asked a researcher at the Smithsonian whose expertise is American Indians
            and he had this to say:

            ...not only Indians but also New Agers, Chinese manufacters, European
            hobbyists, local hyppies, and LA fashio designers are using it [kokopelli]
            in jewelry, charms, pendants, etc....
            My thinking is this; if it is being used, let's say, for an
            anthropological "section" discussing rock art symbolism and a host of
            related/ associated topics, i.e. attributes of SW fertility, etc. etc., it's
            ok, but to just use it becasue it is "in style" or as an eye-catcher, then I
            would agree with whomever raised the issue. In other words, what's the AAA
            rationale for using that "image" as a logo? Someone must have had a reason,
            or reasons, for chosing it, must not just have picked it because it's
            "Indian"; if this were case, I would seriously question the intellectual
            maturity of the [decision].


            >>> lloyd.miller@... 03/05/04 09:35AM >>>
            I think Dianne makes an interesting point. Certainly Kokopelli
            originates as an Indian symbol, but is it a sacred symbol? Should
            organizations refrain from using any of the ancient rock drawings in
            the event they might have been sacred? Should this restriction apply
            only to non-Indians? Generally, complaints about employing Indian
            symbols or names are made when they're used in a derogatory way or if
            the intent is to demean.

            SACC has used Kokopelli in some form as an icon since the early 90s.
            I'm surprised that no one has questioned this until now (are we that
            obscure?). Before I ceremoniously destroy my SACC coffee cup, I'd like
            to hear more discussion about 1) whether any use of Kokopelli is
            considered unethical or demeaning; 2) whether Kokopelli is a sacred
            symbol and to whom; 3) what evidence supports this, e.g., is it used in
            sacred ceremonies, does its appearance in non-sacred contexts produce
            strong negative emotions, as do the Christian Cross, the Star of David
            or the American flag; 4) would such negative emotions, if they exist,
            apply equally to "non-practicing Indians" as well as to non-Indians;
            5) who would have standing to grant or deny permission for its use.

            Yes, it is indeed interesting!
            Lloyd



            On Thursday, March 4, 2004, at 04:56 PM, Chidester, Dianne
            ((Jefferson)) wrote:

            > Just to put a little different slant on this… What about all the
            > Indian-made silver with Kokopelli on it? Can one be a “non-practicing

            > Indian” and it’s okay to use this symbol for personal gain? (BTW, I

            > use the term “Indian” because my students inSouth Dakotaand Russell
            > Means told me it was what they preferred.)
            >
            >
            >
            > This could get interesting! -- Dianne
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Popplestone, Ann [mailto:ann.popplestone@...]
            > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 2:49 PM
            > To: SACC-L (SACC-L)
            > Subject: [SACC-L] FW: Kokopelli "our dancing friend......"
            >
            >
            >
            > Thoughts and opinions?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Jan Tucker [mailto:jtucker@...]
            > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:40 PM
            > To: Popplestone, Ann
            > Cc: Wolves5149@...; Aimfl@...; Rabeaul@...; Mark Madrid;
            > DNarcomey@...
            > Subject: Kokopelli "our dancing friend......"
            >
            > Dear AnnPopplestone,
            >
            >
            >
            > I'm writing to comment to Kokopelli image usage for the SACC [image,
            > icon, symbol]. An American Indian activist friend sent this webpage to
            > me knowing I'm an Applied Cultural Anthropologists. I read the
            > information from the page linked below which discusses "Kokopelli our
            > dancing friend....." written by Karen Yaeger. I can't tell a date for
            > this essay, but I accessed it on 3/3/04 at this WWW address
            > http://ccanthro.bizland.com/koko.htm
            >
            >
            >
            > My concern is the use of the image is problematic ethically.
            > Considering native people's position on the appropriation of their
            > sacred spiritual practices (and all that goes with this appropriation,
            > in this case imagrey of a diety). I suggest the SACC examin closer
            > the ethics of using this image to represent something other than what
            > it is meant to represent). I suggest that applied cultural
            > anthropologists show the utmost respect and sensitivity to not using
            > inappropriatly sacred images or becoming part of "the world of kitsch"
            > the Ms. Yeates discusses in the quotes below. It is ethically wrong
            > to appropriate "Kokopelli our dancing friend...." from the Hopi people
            > today who "keep their religion "separare, apart, or "secret"". I
            > suggest we immediately remove the cartoonish dancing image of
            > Kokopelli: "...Kokopelli deserve[s] the same reverence (and respect)
            > that the symbols of Chrisitianity or Judaism receive". So in removing
            > the image we then give in action what we give in lip serves in this
            > essay: "reverence", "respect" .
            >
            >
            >
            > See below for quotes in context.
            >
            >
            >
            > "Apparently, Kokopelli is just as important to the Hopi today, as he
            > was in the past, he being the important rain priest, associated with
            > the locust and found often together with the snake."
            >
            >
            >
            > "In one respect, I find it curious that no one else attempted to
            > discuss Kokopelli; perhaps part of the reason is that this is just
            > another example of how something sacred has been appropriated into the
            > world of kitsch. So, it comes as no surprise that the Hopi, from what
            > I understand, prefer to keep their religion as separate, apart, or
            > "secret" from the contemporary world. Also, it seems important to me
            > to realize that figures like Kokopelli deserve the same reverence (and
            > respect) that the symbols of Christianity or Judaism receive."
            >
            >
            >
            > Feel Free to Forward, post, share this message widely.
            >
            >
            >
            > Jan B. Tucker
            >
            > jtucker@...
            >
            > Adjucnt Professor
            >
            > Applied Cultural Anthropologist
            >
            > Saine Leo Univeristy and
            >
            > Lake City Community College
            >
            > Lake City, FL
            >
            >
            >
            > Support Group Coordinator
            >
            > Bell Support Group AIM, FL
            >
            > American Indian Movement of Florida
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Be sure to check out the SACC web page at www.anthro.cc (NOTE THE NEW
            > ADDRESS!!) for meeting materials, newsletters, etc.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Be sure to check out the SACC web page at www.anthro.cc (NOTE THE NEW
            > ADDRESS!!) for meeting materials, newsletters, etc.
            >
            >
            <image.tiff>
            >
            >
            <image.tiff>
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SACC-L/
            >
            > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > SACC-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
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