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Re: Track vs rules

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  • Dwight
    Yard Limits can have adverse effects on your mainline traffic when it comes to operational speeds, such as the need to slow the trains down. On the Norfolk
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 5, 2013
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      Yard Limits can have adverse effects on your mainline traffic when it comes to operational speeds, such as the need to slow the trains down. On the Norfolk Southern, Yard Limits are very limited and I do not see it very often. Most of the time, tracks going into a yard off the mainline or to an industrial spur are covered under rules "other than main track". This usually as a speed assigned to them such as yard tracks trains run at Restricted Speed not to exceed 15 mph. This only means that all trains must be able to stop within one half the range of vision of an obstruction or improperly lined switch or derail. This allows mainline traffic to operate at maximum speed while trains in the yard or industry track are at Restricted Speeds.

      Your mainline decision is based on your traffic needs. If you have a lot of traffic, 40 or 50 trains per day, you might have two main tracks. If traffic is less, then you can have a mainline with a siding to meet trains. Sidings are usually slowed down to no more than 40 mph or less in the siding. In some situations, trains have a speed restriction on the switch say of no more than 25 mph.

      Hope this information helps also.

      Dwight

      --- In Ry-ops-industrialSIG@yahoogroups.com, J C L Hoefnagel <j.c.l.-hoefnagel@...> wrote:
      >
      > Howdy,
      > In discussions I always do read about the "operating rules", but I'm sure the function of the track, given by the RR is basical. If there is no track, there are no operation rules.
      > So if I own a real railroad (or a modelrailroad), as an owner I give the tracks a function, and the dispatcher has IMHO to work with those givens.
      > I'm aware that some lines are built as mainline and they lost that function and became secundairy lines or branches......... then the rules used on that line will----probably-----change.
      > If this is true, the rules indeed come after the track-function.
      > James Hoefnagel ---- Hagen ---- Germany
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    • whk58@pacbell.net
      It is so hard to get this point across. People have a mind set that somehow yard limits has something to do with the set up of a yard. Yard limits only
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 6, 2013
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        It is so hard to get this point across. People have a mind set that somehow "yard limits" has something to do with the set up of a yard.
        "Yard limits" only controls the action of trains on the main track. How you run your train the moment you are off the main is controlled by another set of rules. "Yard limits" only transfers those rules to the main track within the area designated. With or without "yard limits" those rules apply to everything that is not controlled by the dispatcher, sidings, ladder tracks, industrial switching districts, whatever.

        You can have a perfectly fine yard with a main running through it and no "yard limits" at all. You would just need permission from the dispatcher in one form or another to use the main. I suppose that, conversely, you could have "yard limits" with no yard. It is a management decision related to the flow of traffic not a statement of physical geography.

        Bill Kaufman


        --- In Ry-ops-industrialSIG@yahoogroups.com, "David Husman" <dehusman@...> wrote:
        >
        > Only one track will be "yard limits" and that is the main track.
        >
      • J C L Hoefnagel
        Bill and all, Thanks for your message, I do know that other folks often think that yard limits have something to do with a yard , but not me. I just try to
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 6, 2013
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          Bill and all,
          Thanks for your message, I do know that other folks often think that "yard limits" have something to do with a "yard", but not me.
          I just try to understand who decides.
          James Hoefnagel ---- Hagen ---- Germany
          To: Ry-ops-industrialSIG@yahoogroups.com
          From: whk58@...
          Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2013 15:31:38 +0000
          Subject: Re: [Ops-Ind] Track vs rules


























          It is so hard to get this point across. People have a mind set that somehow "yard limits" has something to do with the set up of a yard.

          "Yard limits" only controls the action of trains on the main track. How you run your train the moment you are off the main is controlled by another set of rules. "Yard limits" only transfers those rules to the main track within the area designated. With or without "yard limits" those rules apply to everything that is not controlled by the dispatcher, sidings, ladder tracks, industrial switching districts, whatever.



          You can have a perfectly fine yard with a main running through it and no "yard limits" at all. You would just need permission from the dispatcher in one form or another to use the main. I suppose that, conversely, you could have "yard limits" with no yard. It is a management decision related to the flow of traffic not a statement of physical geography.



          Bill Kaufman



          --- In Ry-ops-industrialSIG@yahoogroups.com, "David Husman" <dehusman@...> wrote:

          >

          > Only one track will be "yard limits" and that is the main track.

          >



















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • J C L Hoefnagel
          Dave, You said: Whether or not the main track is in yard limits is a management decision. Once that decision is made, the operation is governed by yard
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 6, 2013
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            Dave,
            You said:<quote> Whether or not the main track is in yard limits is a management decision. Once that decision is made, the operation is governed by yard limit rules.</quote>
            That is the answer I was searching for. Same goes for the answer about removing switches etc.
            Management: We might argue about "management operations", and we may end up with a different meaning of the word "operations". Having been a manager for 37 years I always had the idea I was "operating" the company :) But maybe there is a better word for it :)
            James Hoefnagel ---- Hagen ---- Germany


            To: Ry-ops-industrialSIG@yahoogroups.com
            From: dehusman@...
            Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 20:02:04 +0000
            Subject: Re: [Ops-Ind] Track vs rules






























            --- In Ry-ops-industrialSIG@yahoogroups.com, J C L Hoefnagel <j.c.l.-hoefnagel@...> wrote:

            > Because a local is serving the spurs and has to be able to run around his train, the whole set of tracks will be "Yard Limits". Is that a rule decission or a managment decission?

            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



            Only one track will be "yard limits" and that is the main track.



            Whether or not the main track is in yard limits is a management decision. Once that decision is made, the operation is governed by yard limit rules.



            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

            > If the spurs are no longer used and the switches are removed, then there is no reason for the YL anymore, who decides that?

            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



            Managment decides when switches are removed. Whether or not the main track is in yard limits is a management decision. Just because the switches are retired doesn't mean that yard limits will be removed. Yard limits is a method of granting authority on the main track. While it facilitates switching, it is not dependent on there being switching or switches.



            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

            > I see a difference between two operations of a RR, the managment operation and the operation by the rules.

            >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



            They are, but I don't consider the management decisions as "operation".



            Checkers and chess are both played on the same board, but deciding which game you are going to play using which game pieces (the management decision) is not "playing a game" (operation). Picking which game you are going to play using which game pieces are decisions you make that set up the game. Once you have chosen the game, a specific set of rules apply. Different games have different aspects. You choose the game to fit the circumstances. Just two people? Maybe chess or checkers. Don't want a lot of complicated strategy? Choose checkers. Only have 3 people? Don't pick Bridge or doubles tennis. Have 5 people? Don't pick Bridge or doubles tennis. Children? Pick Go Fish. Competitive types? Choose poker.



            The management decisions are merely setting the boundaries in which operations occur. I don't see the management decisions as operation itself.



            Dave H.



















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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