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[Ops-Ind] Re: Filling out switchlist during operating session.

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  • David Husman
    ... The waybills would be given to the railroad that has possession of the cars or the customer (steel mill) ifthe switching road isn t a common carrier.. ...
    Message 1 of 67 , Jul 4, 2013
      --- In Ry-ops-industrialSIG@yahoogroups.com, Charles Tapper <charlestapper@...> wrote:
      > OK. Would the waybills be forwarded to a receiving terminal and switching road, if not a common carrier, on an inbound load?
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      The waybills would be given to the railroad that has possession of the cars or the customer (steel mill) ifthe switching road isn't a common carrier..

      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      > I would like to simulate the delivery of cars on the steel mill road more carefully than just using 2 or 4 cycle waybills, i.e. I don't want a waybill in a car card assigning an empty to a mill spot. I'd like to try and have that be decided by yardmaster or crew. [If it is too much, I can just resort to multicycle waybills...].
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      Then make the last move going to a holding track. then the waybill to spot the car is applied by the yardmaster and the hold waybill is removed.

      Dave H.
    • Mal
      Whether the waybill is two cycles or four cycles is not related to whether cars are being hand;led by a switching road, interchanged, handled in road trains or
      Message 67 of 67 , Jul 6, 2013
        Whether the waybill is two cycles or four cycles is not related to whether cars are being hand;led by a switching road, interchanged, handled in road trains or whatever. In our model world we can't really use them in detail the way the prototype does, but we can achieve the same result in how a car moves from when it's loaded until it arrives where it is unloaded, and v.v. for empties.

        What counts is that one cycle gets the car from its origin to its destination. (Leaving aside for the moment the empty car distribution thing, which most of us don't do).

        That one side of a piece of card suffices to get the car pulled from an industry, sorted for a road train, taken to the next yard, sorted in the eastbound yard, transferred to the westbound yard, sorted in the westbound yard and taken to Stuart in the local and spotted. IT has served not only as a waybill, bute as part of three switch lists, which may or may not have been written by a yard operator. (Actual example at our club).

        My point is that if each yard has clear instructions as to what to do with a car with a waybill for a given destination, there should be no problem with having that one half of a waybill card getting the car across the railroad.

        I'll repeat the key point. Each yard should have blocking instructions that say what to do with a car given its destination.

        Malcolm Laughlin




        --- In Ry-ops-industrialSIG@yahoogroups.com, Charles Tapper <charlestapper@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks to all of you for the information.  My questions came from a suspicion that at the terminal road level, paperwork would be handled differently than if you are modeling, say, a bridge road. I can see a need for different types of paperwork, and perhaps switch lists. Perhaps I retain the CC pocket to hold various pieces of paper (orders). I can see that besides crew with locomotives, a yardmaster position would be an important addition. Lots to chew on.
        >  
        > The scenario I am working on is basically that of the real Monongahela Connecting, owned by J&L, which had direct connections to B&O, PRR, and P&LE.  Due to space limitations, I do not get to have realistic interchange situations. As long as I have active interchange, trains will have to come onto mill property (from staging) to reach A/D tracks (interchange tracks), including coal and ore trains. On the real Mon Con only trained P&LE crews could use MCRR tracks in one of the yards.  But ya do what ya have to do.
        >  
        > Clearly, if necessary, I could just use CCs and 2 or 4 cycle waybills, if it is too much for crews to digest. Things would work fine, if not realistically.
        >  
        > Charlie Tapper
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Mal <mlaughlinnyc@...>
        > To: Ry-ops-industrialSIG@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 10:57 AM
        > Subject: [Ops-Ind] waybills and switch lists - wa: Filling out switchlist during operating session.
        >
        >  
        >
        > Here's a challenge - model the following processes with only waybills and no switch lists.
        >
        > -----------------------------------------------------
        >
        > In discussing who sees the waybill (real rr, not model) the key is who gets the revenue. Part of that is where does the shipper submit the bill of lading and where is the destination freight bill prepared.
        >
        > Generally that excludes yard crews, industrial switchers in a terminal and all employees of a switching carrier from ever seeing a waybill.
        >
        > The following is based on before computers, through the 60's, beginning to change in the 70's.
        >
        > The waybill is prepared by the origin railroad freight agent at the station where the shipper tenders a bill of lading. Here's an example. A carload of sheet steel is shipped from Republic steel at Buffalo on the EL to the Pullman Company on the CWP&S near Chicago. The routing is WAB/Detroit/GTW. Here's who sees and does not see the waybill. The year is 1970.
        >
        > The transaction is between Bethlehem and the Wabash, so the bill of lading goes to the Wabash station agent at Buffalo, who prepares the waybill. From the station, the waybill, along with other outbound WAB waybills goes to Bison Yard, origin of the WAB train to Detroit. At the yard, waybills are matched with the cars and the pack of waybills is given to the conductor.
        >
        > Meanwhile, a EL switcher has pulled the car from Republic and brought it into Buffalo Jct. yard. The Republic cut is sorted by a yard engine. It moves in a transfer to Bison Yard. It's next handled by the hump crew. Then it is handled by the crew that pulls cars from the bowl and makes up trains. Finally it's in the outbound train. The condcutor of that train has picked up the waybills at the yard office. The car has now been in the hands of six conductors, and only the last has seen a waybill.
        >
        > BTW, the formal interchange from EL to WAB was when the transfer cut arrived at Bison Yard.
        >
        > Documents on which the car has appeared are
        > - list from Republic Steel that may or may not show where cars are going. They will have given Buffalo Jct. some kind of information indicating whether a cars is to wait there for a waybill or to go to another railroad.
        > - switchlist made up by the yardmaster for the track with the cut of cars arriving with the switcher that served Republic.
        > - List of cars in the transfer cut made up by the yard clerk.
        > - hump list made by the Bison Yard clerks aftert ehy match waybills from the agency with cars in the transfer.
        > - Outbound train consist with amybe (depends on railroad) a copy to the conductor.
        >
        > I'll ship the paper handling at Detroit,but note that there will be at least one yard move on each railroad and an interchange move. Teh waybills may move across town by messenger from the WAB yard office to the GTW yard office.
        >
        > Now the series of moves on arrival at the GTW yard in Chicago.
        > - GTW yard engine switches into track with cars for West Pullman.
        > - Transfer move that serves West Pullman makes the interchange. Might not be a GTW crew if GTW uses a joint yard and other railroad's crews make interchange for both..
        > - CWP&S crew spots the car.
        >
        > On arrival of the road train in Chicago, the waybill goes to the GTW station agent who cuts a freight bill that is mailed to Pullman. CWP&S never sees an inbound waybill because it is a switching carrier that does not participate in the line haul revenue.
        >
        > Here's a variant on that. Pullman gives the bills of lading to the CWP&S feight agent who types the waybills. He types the waybills, each on a waybill from for the originating line haul railroad. Now the CWP&S agent is acting as agent on behalf or each road for which he types a waybill. The CWP&S agency is a joint facility in which all the participating railroads pay the expenses in proportion to the number of cars handled. But the CWP&S itself never has official cognizance of those waybills.
        >
        > -----------------------------------
        >
        > There is an important dichotomy in this game of waybills vs. movement. On the one hand is the large city station where there is a central agency near the main yard and cars make one or more moves before they get in a road train whose conductor handles waybills. On the other is the small town station where the single agent gets the bill of lading (maybe walked in by the shipper across the street), types the waybill and hands it to the way freight conductor who pulls. the car.
        >
        > On the inbound at that small town, the road conductor spots the car, gives the waybill to the agent and the agent types and mails the freight bill to the customer.
        >
        > In the real railroad world the vast majority of cars were handled in that large terminal scenario. In the model railroad world, the opposite is true. Most cars are handled using the small station model.
        >
        > Malcolm Laughlin
        >
        > --- In mailto:Ry-ops-industrialSIG%40yahoogroups.com, "David Husman" <dehusman@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In mailto:Ry-ops-industrialSIG%40yahoogroups.com, Charles Tapper <charlestapper@> wrote:
        > > > OK. Would the waybills be forwarded to a receiving terminal and switching road, if not a common carrier, on an inbound load?
        > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        > >
        > > The waybills would be given to the railroad that has possession of the cars or the customer (steel mill) ifthe switching road isn't a common carrier..
        > >
        > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        > > > I would like to simulate the delivery of cars on the steel mill road more carefully than just using 2 or 4 cycle waybills, i.e. I don't want a waybill in a car card assigning an empty to a mill spot. I'd like to try and have that be decided by yardmaster or crew. [If it is too much, I can just resort to multicycle waybills...].
        > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
        > >
        > > Then make the last move going to a holding track. then the waybill to spot the car is applied by the yardmaster and the hold waybill is removed.
        > >
        > > Dave H.
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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