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Re: You ain't no "regular guy"

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  • Ken Bob Saxton
    I can confirm it. I have met Marc at Los Angeles Marathon and Palos Verdes Marathon. He ain t no regular guy. But, I haven t met any regular guys (or gals) who
    Message 1 of 30 , Aug 2, 2005
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      I can confirm it. I have met Marc at Los Angeles Marathon and Palos
      Verdes Marathon. He ain't no regular guy. But, I haven't met any
      regular guys (or gals) who would run a marathon anyway, with or without
      shoes!

      We're all Bozos on this bus!

      Note: if you're uncomfortably irregular, eat more fiber (perferably in
      whole foods) and drink more water.

      Have fun,
      -barefoot ken bob

      --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc M. McLellan"
      <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
      > It's true. Ask anyone.
      >
      > >>> yanni@p... 8/2/2005 10:12:25 AM >>>
      > You don't sound like a regular guy!
    • Ryan - Barefoot in Vancouver
      I measure mine all the time, just for fun. When I m at rest and quiet, it tends to be right around 60 bpm, sometimes a little slower. If I ve been walking and
      Message 2 of 30 , Aug 3, 2005
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        I measure mine all the time, just for fun.
        When I'm at rest and quiet, it tends to be
        right around 60 bpm, sometimes a little slower.
        If I've been walking and moving around, and then
        test it, it tends to be around 72 bpm. I think thats
        acceptable for a 51 yr old guy. I expect it to go
        down some more as I get in better shape.
        I'm only running about 12-15 miles per week right now,
        slowly increasing my distances.

        Ryan
      • Ryan - Barefoot in Vancouver
        What does this mean: When I was in super shape, years ago, I would go out on daily runs of 10-20 miles each. As I started my run, my heart rate and breathing
        Message 3 of 30 , Aug 3, 2005
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          What does this mean: When I was in super shape, years ago,
          I would go out on daily runs of 10-20 miles each. As I started my run,
          my heart rate and breathing would get faster and faster for the first
          2 or 3 miles, then something weird happened. It seemed as if they
          slowed down again, even while I was still running! I had a cadence I
          liked to follow, breathe in for two steps, breathe for two steps. I
          was taking longer, loping strides in those days. I never measured my
          heart rate, but I know it got slower as I settled into my "groove."

          Ryan
        • Kevin Werner
          Do you know for sure that your heart rate is dropping? I only ask because I tend to have the same feelings. It usually takes me about 30 minutes to really hit
          Message 4 of 30 , Aug 4, 2005
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            Do you know for sure that your heart rate is dropping?
            I only ask because I tend to have the same feelings.
            It usually takes me about 30 minutes to really hit my
            stride. However, my heart rate doesn't really change
            as far as I know, but my breathing pattern slows and
            my muscles loosen up considerably helping me to have
            an "easier" stride. I guess I don't pay close enough
            attention to know if it is all mental perception or I
            truly am running easier.

            kddubb

            --- Ryan - Barefoot in Vancouver <ardydub@...>
            wrote:

            > What does this mean: When I was in super shape,
            > years ago,
            > I would go out on daily runs of 10-20 miles each. As
            > I started my run,
            > my heart rate and breathing would get faster and
            > faster for the first
            > 2 or 3 miles, then something weird happened. It
            > seemed as if they
            > slowed down again, even while I was still running! I
            > had a cadence I
            > liked to follow, breathe in for two steps, breathe
            > for two steps. I
            > was taking longer, loping strides in those days. I
            > never measured my
            > heart rate, but I know it got slower as I settled
            > into my "groove."
            >
            > Ryan
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




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          • Ken Bob Saxton
            As I have heard it explained. The body takes about 15-20 minutes (2-3 miles) to shift into running mode. Blood/energy/chi is diverted to the areas needed for
            Message 5 of 30 , Aug 4, 2005
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              As I have heard it explained. The body takes about 15-20 minutes (2-3
              miles) to shift into running mode. Blood/energy/chi is diverted to the
              areas needed for running. When this shift has happened, less energy is
              used for things that don't help run, like digestion, etc..

              The heart rate may or may not slow down, depending on several factors.
              For example, most of us, after getting "warmed up", or, as above
              shifting to running mode, tend to start running a bit faster (a good
              reason to warm up before short races, like 5K or 10K), thus our heart
              rate may stay the same or increase, but not as quickly as before
              warming up. If we hold the same speed as while warming up, it is not
              unreasonable to see the heart rate drop.

              Have fun,
              -barefoot ken bob

              --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan - Barefoot in Vancouver"
              <ardydub@y...> wrote:
              > What does this mean: When I was in super shape, years ago,
              > I would go out on daily runs of 10-20 miles each. As I started my run,
              > my heart rate and breathing would get faster and faster for the first
              > 2 or 3 miles, then something weird happened. It seemed as if they
              > slowed down again, even while I was still running! I had a cadence I
              > liked to follow, breathe in for two steps, breathe for two steps. I
              > was taking longer, loping strides in those days. I never measured my
              > heart rate, but I know it got slower as I settled into my "groove."
              >
              > Ryan
            • Marc McLellan
              This is where you are wrong. My mother, grandmother and grandfather (both sides of family for grand parents) lost most or all of their teeth. I have all of
              Message 6 of 30 , Aug 4, 2005
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                This is where you are wrong.

                My mother, grandmother and grandfather (both sides of family for
                grand parents) lost most or all of their teeth. I have all of mine
                and when I have gone to the dentist they usually comment on how
                perfect are my teeth. When I was a child I did little to care for
                them and as an adult do less. I drink quite a bit of coffee and
                various teas so they yellow a little but a daily manual cleaning
                keeps them fine.

                I am not saying that genetics do not play a role. The role
                is not a major role.

                Marc
                --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Manuzzi"
                <manuzzin@P...> wrote:
                > > Many factors contribute to skin, teeth, feet, disease, absence of
                > > disease.
                >
                > - including genetics.
                >
                > Not bad for a guy that according to you should have complications
                from
                > > a deteriorating liver.
                >
                > - cirrhosis caused by drinking is not genetic.
                >
                > - w/r/t your athletic accomplishments, I thank you for
                > validating my point. Feats of strength such as yours, which I
                admire
                > greatly, are accomplished by a high concentration of fast twitch
                > muscle fiber and, given that fiber type, one would expect nearly
                > opposite aerobic performance. Remember flo-jo the world record
                hold
                > in the womans 100 meter? After the Olympics she stated she was
                going
                > after the world 5000 meter record. I think she got below 19
                minutes,
                > once. Did you know that for the most part world class sprinters
                have
                > >95% fast twitch fibers? Did you know that the most part world
                class
                > marathoners can have >95% slow twitch fibers? Why do you think
                the
                > Soviet block nations (and China today) scour ELEMETARY schools
                > looking for potential athletes, most before they have ever trained
                at
                > all? Lance Armstong - he was winning Triathlons at age 14,
                soundly
                > beating athletes who had trained longer than he was alive. Ever
                hear
                > the bodybuilder phrase, the goast in the machine? It means the
                > genetic limitation on muscle size and definition.
                >
                > - w/r/t genetic changes, 3 generations scores a 0. It takes
                > 1000's or 10's of 1000's of generations for genetics to manifest
                > itself.
                >
                > I am not a genetically gifted runner but after 34 years of
                trying
                > I've beaten many who were more gifted than I. I've also been
                > clobered by those who are gifted AND WORK HARD. The top of any
                sport
                > is dominated by those with genetic gifts AND hard work.
                >
                > Nick
                >
                > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc M. McLellan"
                > <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                > > Many factors contribute to skin, teeth, feet, disease, absence of
                > > disease.
                > >
                > > My grandfather who I've never met died from cirrhosis of the
                liver
                > 10
                > > years before I was born (my grandmother drank excessively all of
                her
                > > life). My father drinks to a stupor every night. I don't even
                > drink. I
                > > made my own choice.
                > >
                > > I am a regular guy. In fact I have met a few of the group
                members. I
                > > have performed a world class feat strength (one-hand dead lift
                of
                > 315
                > > lbs).
                > >
                > > I was a pathetic runner. On the course in my neighborhood (which
                is
                > > about 5.5 miles) my best was about 45 minutes struggling. Now,
                > after a
                > > couple of years my best is under 39 minutes.
                > >
                > > Not bad for a guy that according to you should have
                complications
                > from
                > > a deteriorating liver.
                > >
                > > Does 3 generations of couch potatoes yield a super race of couch
                > > potatoes? Able to sustain long periods without going to the
                > restroom. A
                > > super strong thumb for changing channels or better a mental
                ability
                > > change channels without a remote. How about a built in drink
                holder
                > in
                > > their gut?
                > >
                > > Are couch potatoes destined to breed more couch potatoes?
                > >
                > > Marc
                > >
                > > >>> manuzzin@P... 8/2/2005 8:37:23 AM >>>
                > >
                > > Hmmm, eye color, height, hair color, skin, teeth, facial
                features,
                > > feet, disease, absence of disease; all of these are genetic but
                > > aerobic performace is not...
                > >
                > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc M. McLellan"
                > > <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                > > > I do not believe in genetics. It is easy to give up and
                say "my
                > > geneitcs
                > > > are poor so why try".
                > > >
                > > > Running how you feel can lead to overtraining for most people.
                > > >
                > > > Marc
                > > >
                > > > >>> manuzzin@P... 8/1/2005 9:12:10 AM >>>
                > > >
                > > > resting heart rate - HR right as you wake up in the morning,
                > while
                > > > still in bed. Max heart rate, the maximum that you can
                attain,
                > > > usually determined during a VO2 max test in a lab (or, look at
                > your
                > > > HRM as you sprint to the finish in a 5K..). There is a large
                > > genetic
                > > > component to both though the resting HR is generally most
                > effected
                > > by
                > > > training. What really changes is the amount of O2 you body
                can
                > > > extract/use at any give HR.
                > > > Lactate threshold is the percentage of your V02 max that you
                can
                > > > utilize. This percentage is low for the untrained (50-60%)
                and
                > can
                > > > be extremely high in the genetically gifted (95% in some elite
                > > > marathoners). Being an exercise physiologist and having run
                for
                > 35
                > > > years my advise is the toss the HRM. Run how you feel: easy
                is
                > > > easy, (NOT a specific HR) and hard is hard (if you are going
                all
                > > out
                > > > and your HR is not as high as you think it should be, you'll
                do
                > > > what???)
                > > >
                > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Werner
                > > <djsuviva@y...>
                > > > wrote:
                > > > > People have different opinions about resting and max
                > > > > heart rate and their definitions. I define resting
                > > > > heart rate as your average resting heart rate during
                > > > > regular training without conscious lowering methods
                > > > > such as breathing exercises. I basically take my
                > > > > pulse when I first wake up during normal training
                > > > > weeks and average it over a week or so. Last time I
                > > > > did this it ended up around 55. I'm sure if I really
                > > > > wanted to slow it down I could take a few days off
                > > > > training and it would fall into the 40's fairly
                > > > > quickly. I think the lowest I've recorded is 46 (I
                > > > > don't remember exactly because that's not really what
                > > > > I pay attention to).
                > > > >
                > > > > As for max heart rate, from what I've read it doesn't
                > > > > matter as much for us endurance runners. Lactate
                > > > > threshold matters. My lactate threshold is 167
                > > > > (according to my auto-learn HRM) and it extrapolates
                > > > > my max HR at 185 from that.
                > > > >
                > > > > kddubb
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --- yannipapastavrou <yanni@p...> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > > Not really a barefoot question, but I wondered what
                > > > > > people's resting
                > > > > > heart rate is, if they know it and are not shy to
                > > > > > say.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I'm particularly interested to know for those of you
                > > > > > who do high
                > > > > > weekly mileages and run marathons, but for others
                > > > > > too i'd also be
                > > > > > interested to know.
                > > > > > I haven't measured mine in a while so last night in
                > > > > > a very relaxed
                > > > > > state before sleeping, I measured mine. I was amazed
                > > > > > to see it
                > > > > > fluctuating around the low 40 mark. I remember
                > > > > > measuring it years ago
                > > > > > during an anatomy and physiology lab as a reasonably
                > > > > > fit 22 year old
                > > > > > and it was around 60. I remember the professor at
                > > > > > the time saying it
                > > > > > indicated I was pretty fit. I wonder what he would
                > > > > > say now about the
                > > > > > measured rate I acquired aged 35?
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Yanni
                > > > > > Barefoot runner since December 2004.
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > ____________________________________________________
                > > > > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                > > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > To support this group and
                > > > http://RunningBarefoot.org
                > > > shop
                > > > http://RunningBarefoot.biz
                > > >
                > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > To support this group and
                > > http://RunningBarefoot.org
                > > shop
                > > http://RunningBarefoot.biz
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Marc McLellan
                I always run with a hrm. For me, if I start a run fast my heart rate will climb quickly and stay high even if I slow down. If I start a run slow my heart rate
                Message 7 of 30 , Aug 4, 2005
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                  I always run with a hrm. For me, if I start a run fast my heart rate
                  will climb quickly and stay high even if I slow down. If I start a
                  run slow my heart rate will climb slowly and will stay lower even at
                  faster paces. Sort of like the gas peddle gets stuck.

                  Marc

                  --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Bob Saxton" <ken@r...>
                  wrote:
                  > As I have heard it explained. The body takes about 15-20 minutes
                  (2-3
                  > miles) to shift into running mode. Blood/energy/chi is diverted to
                  the
                  > areas needed for running. When this shift has happened, less
                  energy is
                  > used for things that don't help run, like digestion, etc..
                  >
                  > The heart rate may or may not slow down, depending on several
                  factors.
                  > For example, most of us, after getting "warmed up", or, as above
                  > shifting to running mode, tend to start running a bit faster (a
                  good
                  > reason to warm up before short races, like 5K or 10K), thus our
                  heart
                  > rate may stay the same or increase, but not as quickly as before
                  > warming up. If we hold the same speed as while warming up, it is
                  not
                  > unreasonable to see the heart rate drop.
                  >
                  > Have fun,
                  > -barefoot ken bob
                  >
                  > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan - Barefoot in
                  Vancouver"
                  > <ardydub@y...> wrote:
                  > > What does this mean: When I was in super shape, years ago,
                  > > I would go out on daily runs of 10-20 miles each. As I started
                  my run,
                  > > my heart rate and breathing would get faster and faster for the
                  first
                  > > 2 or 3 miles, then something weird happened. It seemed as if they
                  > > slowed down again, even while I was still running! I had a
                  cadence I
                  > > liked to follow, breathe in for two steps, breathe for two
                  steps. I
                  > > was taking longer, loping strides in those days. I never
                  measured my
                  > > heart rate, but I know it got slower as I settled into
                  my "groove."
                  > >
                  > > Ryan
                • Nick Manuzzi
                  ... I m trying to follow here: Given a family history of bad teeth, and little care as a child or adult, you have perfect teeth. And the explaination for
                  Message 8 of 30 , Aug 4, 2005
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                    > My mother, grandmother and grandfather (both sides of family for
                    > grand parents) lost most or all of their teeth.

                    > When I was a child I did little to care for
                    > them and as an adult do less.


                    I'm trying to follow here:

                    Given a family history of bad teeth, and little care as a child or
                    adult, you have "perfect" teeth. And the explaination for that is???


                    --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc McLellan"
                    <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                    > This is where you are wrong.
                    >
                    > My mother, grandmother and grandfather (both sides of family for
                    > grand parents) lost most or all of their teeth. I have all of mine
                    > and when I have gone to the dentist they usually comment on how
                    > perfect are my teeth. When I was a child I did little to care for
                    > them and as an adult do less. I drink quite a bit of coffee and
                    > various teas so they yellow a little but a daily manual cleaning
                    > keeps them fine.
                    >
                    > I am not saying that genetics do not play a role. The role
                    > is not a major role.
                    >
                    > Marc
                    > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Manuzzi"
                    > <manuzzin@P...> wrote:
                    > > > Many factors contribute to skin, teeth, feet, disease, absence
                    of
                    > > > disease.
                    > >
                    > > - including genetics.
                    > >
                    > > Not bad for a guy that according to you should have complications
                    > from
                    > > > a deteriorating liver.
                    > >
                    > > - cirrhosis caused by drinking is not genetic.
                    > >
                    > > - w/r/t your athletic accomplishments, I thank you for
                    > > validating my point. Feats of strength such as yours, which I
                    > admire
                    > > greatly, are accomplished by a high concentration of fast twitch
                    > > muscle fiber and, given that fiber type, one would expect nearly
                    > > opposite aerobic performance. Remember flo-jo the world record
                    > hold
                    > > in the womans 100 meter? After the Olympics she stated she was
                    > going
                    > > after the world 5000 meter record. I think she got below 19
                    > minutes,
                    > > once. Did you know that for the most part world class sprinters
                    > have
                    > > >95% fast twitch fibers? Did you know that the most part world
                    > class
                    > > marathoners can have >95% slow twitch fibers? Why do you think
                    > the
                    > > Soviet block nations (and China today) scour ELEMETARY schools
                    > > looking for potential athletes, most before they have ever
                    trained
                    > at
                    > > all? Lance Armstong - he was winning Triathlons at age 14,
                    > soundly
                    > > beating athletes who had trained longer than he was alive. Ever
                    > hear
                    > > the bodybuilder phrase, the goast in the machine? It means the
                    > > genetic limitation on muscle size and definition.
                    > >
                    > > - w/r/t genetic changes, 3 generations scores a 0. It takes
                    > > 1000's or 10's of 1000's of generations for genetics to manifest
                    > > itself.
                    > >
                    > > I am not a genetically gifted runner but after 34 years of
                    > trying
                    > > I've beaten many who were more gifted than I. I've also been
                    > > clobered by those who are gifted AND WORK HARD. The top of any
                    > sport
                    > > is dominated by those with genetic gifts AND hard work.
                    > >
                    > > Nick
                    > >
                    > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc M. McLellan"
                    > > <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                    > > > Many factors contribute to skin, teeth, feet, disease, absence
                    of
                    > > > disease.
                    > > >
                    > > > My grandfather who I've never met died from cirrhosis of the
                    > liver
                    > > 10
                    > > > years before I was born (my grandmother drank excessively all
                    of
                    > her
                    > > > life). My father drinks to a stupor every night. I don't even
                    > > drink. I
                    > > > made my own choice.
                    > > >
                    > > > I am a regular guy. In fact I have met a few of the group
                    > members. I
                    > > > have performed a world class feat strength (one-hand dead lift
                    > of
                    > > 315
                    > > > lbs).
                    > > >
                    > > > I was a pathetic runner. On the course in my neighborhood
                    (which
                    > is
                    > > > about 5.5 miles) my best was about 45 minutes struggling. Now,
                    > > after a
                    > > > couple of years my best is under 39 minutes.
                    > > >
                    > > > Not bad for a guy that according to you should have
                    > complications
                    > > from
                    > > > a deteriorating liver.
                    > > >
                    > > > Does 3 generations of couch potatoes yield a super race of couch
                    > > > potatoes? Able to sustain long periods without going to the
                    > > restroom. A
                    > > > super strong thumb for changing channels or better a mental
                    > ability
                    > > > change channels without a remote. How about a built in drink
                    > holder
                    > > in
                    > > > their gut?
                    > > >
                    > > > Are couch potatoes destined to breed more couch potatoes?
                    > > >
                    > > > Marc
                    > > >
                    > > > >>> manuzzin@P... 8/2/2005 8:37:23 AM >>>
                    > > >
                    > > > Hmmm, eye color, height, hair color, skin, teeth, facial
                    > features,
                    > > > feet, disease, absence of disease; all of these are genetic but
                    > > > aerobic performace is not...
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc M. McLellan"
                    > > > <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                    > > > > I do not believe in genetics. It is easy to give up and
                    > say "my
                    > > > geneitcs
                    > > > > are poor so why try".
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Running how you feel can lead to overtraining for most people.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Marc
                    > > > >
                    > > > > >>> manuzzin@P... 8/1/2005 9:12:10 AM >>>
                    > > > >
                    > > > > resting heart rate - HR right as you wake up in the morning,
                    > > while
                    > > > > still in bed. Max heart rate, the maximum that you can
                    > attain,
                    > > > > usually determined during a VO2 max test in a lab (or, look
                    at
                    > > your
                    > > > > HRM as you sprint to the finish in a 5K..). There is a large
                    > > > genetic
                    > > > > component to both though the resting HR is generally most
                    > > effected
                    > > > by
                    > > > > training. What really changes is the amount of O2 you body
                    > can
                    > > > > extract/use at any give HR.
                    > > > > Lactate threshold is the percentage of your V02 max that you
                    > can
                    > > > > utilize. This percentage is low for the untrained (50-60%)
                    > and
                    > > can
                    > > > > be extremely high in the genetically gifted (95% in some
                    elite
                    > > > > marathoners). Being an exercise physiologist and having run
                    > for
                    > > 35
                    > > > > years my advise is the toss the HRM. Run how you feel: easy
                    > is
                    > > > > easy, (NOT a specific HR) and hard is hard (if you are going
                    > all
                    > > > out
                    > > > > and your HR is not as high as you think it should be, you'll
                    > do
                    > > > > what???)
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Werner
                    > > > <djsuviva@y...>
                    > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > > People have different opinions about resting and max
                    > > > > > heart rate and their definitions. I define resting
                    > > > > > heart rate as your average resting heart rate during
                    > > > > > regular training without conscious lowering methods
                    > > > > > such as breathing exercises. I basically take my
                    > > > > > pulse when I first wake up during normal training
                    > > > > > weeks and average it over a week or so. Last time I
                    > > > > > did this it ended up around 55. I'm sure if I really
                    > > > > > wanted to slow it down I could take a few days off
                    > > > > > training and it would fall into the 40's fairly
                    > > > > > quickly. I think the lowest I've recorded is 46 (I
                    > > > > > don't remember exactly because that's not really what
                    > > > > > I pay attention to).
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > As for max heart rate, from what I've read it doesn't
                    > > > > > matter as much for us endurance runners. Lactate
                    > > > > > threshold matters. My lactate threshold is 167
                    > > > > > (according to my auto-learn HRM) and it extrapolates
                    > > > > > my max HR at 185 from that.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > kddubb
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- yannipapastavrou <yanni@p...> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Not really a barefoot question, but I wondered what
                    > > > > > > people's resting
                    > > > > > > heart rate is, if they know it and are not shy to
                    > > > > > > say.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > I'm particularly interested to know for those of you
                    > > > > > > who do high
                    > > > > > > weekly mileages and run marathons, but for others
                    > > > > > > too i'd also be
                    > > > > > > interested to know.
                    > > > > > > I haven't measured mine in a while so last night in
                    > > > > > > a very relaxed
                    > > > > > > state before sleeping, I measured mine. I was amazed
                    > > > > > > to see it
                    > > > > > > fluctuating around the low 40 mark. I remember
                    > > > > > > measuring it years ago
                    > > > > > > during an anatomy and physiology lab as a reasonably
                    > > > > > > fit 22 year old
                    > > > > > > and it was around 60. I remember the professor at
                    > > > > > > the time saying it
                    > > > > > > indicated I was pretty fit. I wonder what he would
                    > > > > > > say now about the
                    > > > > > > measured rate I acquired aged 35?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Yanni
                    > > > > > > Barefoot runner since December 2004.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > ____________________________________________________
                    > > > > > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                    > > > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > To support this group and
                    > > > > http://RunningBarefoot.org
                    > > > > shop
                    > > > > http://RunningBarefoot.biz
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > To support this group and
                    > > > http://RunningBarefoot.org
                    > > > shop
                    > > > http://RunningBarefoot.biz
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Marc McLellan
                    It must be genetics. ... or ... is??? ... mine ... for ... absence ... complications ... twitch ... nearly ... record ... was ... sprinters ... world ... think
                    Message 9 of 30 , Aug 4, 2005
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                      It must be genetics.

                      --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Manuzzi"
                      <manuzzin@P...> wrote:
                      > > My mother, grandmother and grandfather (both sides of family for
                      > > grand parents) lost most or all of their teeth.
                      >
                      > > When I was a child I did little to care for
                      > > them and as an adult do less.
                      >
                      >
                      > I'm trying to follow here:
                      >
                      > Given a family history of bad teeth, and little care as a child
                      or
                      > adult, you have "perfect" teeth. And the explaination for that
                      is???
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc McLellan"
                      > <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                      > > This is where you are wrong.
                      > >
                      > > My mother, grandmother and grandfather (both sides of family for
                      > > grand parents) lost most or all of their teeth. I have all of
                      mine
                      > > and when I have gone to the dentist they usually comment on how
                      > > perfect are my teeth. When I was a child I did little to care
                      for
                      > > them and as an adult do less. I drink quite a bit of coffee and
                      > > various teas so they yellow a little but a daily manual cleaning
                      > > keeps them fine.
                      > >
                      > > I am not saying that genetics do not play a role. The role
                      > > is not a major role.
                      > >
                      > > Marc
                      > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Manuzzi"
                      > > <manuzzin@P...> wrote:
                      > > > > Many factors contribute to skin, teeth, feet, disease,
                      absence
                      > of
                      > > > > disease.
                      > > >
                      > > > - including genetics.
                      > > >
                      > > > Not bad for a guy that according to you should have
                      complications
                      > > from
                      > > > > a deteriorating liver.
                      > > >
                      > > > - cirrhosis caused by drinking is not genetic.
                      > > >
                      > > > - w/r/t your athletic accomplishments, I thank you for
                      > > > validating my point. Feats of strength such as yours, which I
                      > > admire
                      > > > greatly, are accomplished by a high concentration of fast
                      twitch
                      > > > muscle fiber and, given that fiber type, one would expect
                      nearly
                      > > > opposite aerobic performance. Remember flo-jo the world
                      record
                      > > hold
                      > > > in the womans 100 meter? After the Olympics she stated she
                      was
                      > > going
                      > > > after the world 5000 meter record. I think she got below 19
                      > > minutes,
                      > > > once. Did you know that for the most part world class
                      sprinters
                      > > have
                      > > > >95% fast twitch fibers? Did you know that the most part
                      world
                      > > class
                      > > > marathoners can have >95% slow twitch fibers? Why do you
                      think
                      > > the
                      > > > Soviet block nations (and China today) scour ELEMETARY schools
                      > > > looking for potential athletes, most before they have ever
                      > trained
                      > > at
                      > > > all? Lance Armstong - he was winning Triathlons at age 14,
                      > > soundly
                      > > > beating athletes who had trained longer than he was alive.
                      Ever
                      > > hear
                      > > > the bodybuilder phrase, the goast in the machine? It means the
                      > > > genetic limitation on muscle size and definition.
                      > > >
                      > > > - w/r/t genetic changes, 3 generations scores a 0. It
                      takes
                      > > > 1000's or 10's of 1000's of generations for genetics to
                      manifest
                      > > > itself.
                      > > >
                      > > > I am not a genetically gifted runner but after 34 years of
                      > > trying
                      > > > I've beaten many who were more gifted than I. I've also been
                      > > > clobered by those who are gifted AND WORK HARD. The top of
                      any
                      > > sport
                      > > > is dominated by those with genetic gifts AND hard work.
                      > > >
                      > > > Nick
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc M. McLellan"
                      > > > <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                      > > > > Many factors contribute to skin, teeth, feet, disease,
                      absence
                      > of
                      > > > > disease.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > My grandfather who I've never met died from cirrhosis of the
                      > > liver
                      > > > 10
                      > > > > years before I was born (my grandmother drank excessively
                      all
                      > of
                      > > her
                      > > > > life). My father drinks to a stupor every night. I don't
                      even
                      > > > drink. I
                      > > > > made my own choice.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I am a regular guy. In fact I have met a few of the group
                      > > members. I
                      > > > > have performed a world class feat strength (one-hand dead
                      lift
                      > > of
                      > > > 315
                      > > > > lbs).
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I was a pathetic runner. On the course in my neighborhood
                      > (which
                      > > is
                      > > > > about 5.5 miles) my best was about 45 minutes struggling.
                      Now,
                      > > > after a
                      > > > > couple of years my best is under 39 minutes.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Not bad for a guy that according to you should have
                      > > complications
                      > > > from
                      > > > > a deteriorating liver.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Does 3 generations of couch potatoes yield a super race of
                      couch
                      > > > > potatoes? Able to sustain long periods without going to the
                      > > > restroom. A
                      > > > > super strong thumb for changing channels or better a mental
                      > > ability
                      > > > > change channels without a remote. How about a built in drink
                      > > holder
                      > > > in
                      > > > > their gut?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Are couch potatoes destined to breed more couch potatoes?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Marc
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >>> manuzzin@P... 8/2/2005 8:37:23 AM >>>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hmmm, eye color, height, hair color, skin, teeth, facial
                      > > features,
                      > > > > feet, disease, absence of disease; all of these are genetic
                      but
                      > > > > aerobic performace is not...
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc M. McLellan"
                      > > > > <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                      > > > > > I do not believe in genetics. It is easy to give up and
                      > > say "my
                      > > > > geneitcs
                      > > > > > are poor so why try".
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Running how you feel can lead to overtraining for most
                      people.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Marc
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > >>> manuzzin@P... 8/1/2005 9:12:10 AM >>>
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > resting heart rate - HR right as you wake up in the
                      morning,
                      > > > while
                      > > > > > still in bed. Max heart rate, the maximum that you can
                      > > attain,
                      > > > > > usually determined during a VO2 max test in a lab (or,
                      look
                      > at
                      > > > your
                      > > > > > HRM as you sprint to the finish in a 5K..). There is a
                      large
                      > > > > genetic
                      > > > > > component to both though the resting HR is generally most
                      > > > effected
                      > > > > by
                      > > > > > training. What really changes is the amount of O2 you
                      body
                      > > can
                      > > > > > extract/use at any give HR.
                      > > > > > Lactate threshold is the percentage of your V02 max that
                      you
                      > > can
                      > > > > > utilize. This percentage is low for the untrained (50-
                      60%)
                      > > and
                      > > > can
                      > > > > > be extremely high in the genetically gifted (95% in some
                      > elite
                      > > > > > marathoners). Being an exercise physiologist and having
                      run
                      > > for
                      > > > 35
                      > > > > > years my advise is the toss the HRM. Run how you feel:
                      easy
                      > > is
                      > > > > > easy, (NOT a specific HR) and hard is hard (if you are
                      going
                      > > all
                      > > > > out
                      > > > > > and your HR is not as high as you think it should be,
                      you'll
                      > > do
                      > > > > > what???)
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Werner
                      > > > > <djsuviva@y...>
                      > > > > > wrote:
                      > > > > > > People have different opinions about resting and max
                      > > > > > > heart rate and their definitions. I define resting
                      > > > > > > heart rate as your average resting heart rate during
                      > > > > > > regular training without conscious lowering methods
                      > > > > > > such as breathing exercises. I basically take my
                      > > > > > > pulse when I first wake up during normal training
                      > > > > > > weeks and average it over a week or so. Last time I
                      > > > > > > did this it ended up around 55. I'm sure if I really
                      > > > > > > wanted to slow it down I could take a few days off
                      > > > > > > training and it would fall into the 40's fairly
                      > > > > > > quickly. I think the lowest I've recorded is 46 (I
                      > > > > > > don't remember exactly because that's not really what
                      > > > > > > I pay attention to).
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > As for max heart rate, from what I've read it doesn't
                      > > > > > > matter as much for us endurance runners. Lactate
                      > > > > > > threshold matters. My lactate threshold is 167
                      > > > > > > (according to my auto-learn HRM) and it extrapolates
                      > > > > > > my max HR at 185 from that.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > kddubb
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > --- yannipapastavrou <yanni@p...> wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Not really a barefoot question, but I wondered what
                      > > > > > > > people's resting
                      > > > > > > > heart rate is, if they know it and are not shy to
                      > > > > > > > say.
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > I'm particularly interested to know for those of you
                      > > > > > > > who do high
                      > > > > > > > weekly mileages and run marathons, but for others
                      > > > > > > > too i'd also be
                      > > > > > > > interested to know.
                      > > > > > > > I haven't measured mine in a while so last night in
                      > > > > > > > a very relaxed
                      > > > > > > > state before sleeping, I measured mine. I was amazed
                      > > > > > > > to see it
                      > > > > > > > fluctuating around the low 40 mark. I remember
                      > > > > > > > measuring it years ago
                      > > > > > > > during an anatomy and physiology lab as a reasonably
                      > > > > > > > fit 22 year old
                      > > > > > > > and it was around 60. I remember the professor at
                      > > > > > > > the time saying it
                      > > > > > > > indicated I was pretty fit. I wonder what he would
                      > > > > > > > say now about the
                      > > > > > > > measured rate I acquired aged 35?
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Yanni
                      > > > > > > > Barefoot runner since December 2004.
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > ____________________________________________________
                      > > > > > > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
                      > > > > > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > To support this group and
                      > > > > > http://RunningBarefoot.org
                      > > > > > shop
                      > > > > > http://RunningBarefoot.biz
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > To support this group and
                      > > > > http://RunningBarefoot.org
                      > > > > shop
                      > > > > http://RunningBarefoot.biz
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ken Bob Saxton
                      It s probably due to bare feet ... Maybe ... Have fun, -barefoot ken bob ... for
                      Message 10 of 30 , Aug 4, 2005
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                        It's probably due to bare feet ...

                        Maybe ...

                        Have fun,
                        -barefoot ken bob

                        --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc McLellan"
                        <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                        > It must be genetics.
                        >
                        > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Manuzzi"
                        > <manuzzin@P...> wrote:
                        > > > My mother, grandmother and grandfather (both sides of family
                        for
                        > > > grand parents) lost most or all of their teeth.
                        > >
                        > > > When I was a child I did little to care for
                        > > > them and as an adult do less.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I'm trying to follow here:
                        > >
                        > > Given a family history of bad teeth, and little care as a child
                        > or
                        > > adult, you have "perfect" teeth. And the explaination for that
                        > is???
                      • ctbarefooter
                        Like when both parents have brown eyes and their children have blue eyes... ... for ... for ... cleaning ... I ... schools ... the ... of ... the ... drink
                        Message 11 of 30 , Aug 4, 2005
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                          Like when both parents have brown eyes and their children have blue
                          eyes...

                          --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc McLellan"
                          <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                          > It must be genetics.
                          >
                          > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Manuzzi"
                          > <manuzzin@P...> wrote:
                          > > > My mother, grandmother and grandfather (both sides of family
                          for
                          > > > grand parents) lost most or all of their teeth.
                          > >
                          > > > When I was a child I did little to care for
                          > > > them and as an adult do less.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > I'm trying to follow here:
                          > >
                          > > Given a family history of bad teeth, and little care as a child
                          > or
                          > > adult, you have "perfect" teeth. And the explaination for that
                          > is???
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc McLellan"
                          > > <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                          > > > This is where you are wrong.
                          > > >
                          > > > My mother, grandmother and grandfather (both sides of family
                          for
                          > > > grand parents) lost most or all of their teeth. I have all of
                          > mine
                          > > > and when I have gone to the dentist they usually comment on how
                          > > > perfect are my teeth. When I was a child I did little to care
                          > for
                          > > > them and as an adult do less. I drink quite a bit of coffee and
                          > > > various teas so they yellow a little but a daily manual
                          cleaning
                          > > > keeps them fine.
                          > > >
                          > > > I am not saying that genetics do not play a role. The role
                          > > > is not a major role.
                          > > >
                          > > > Marc
                          > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Manuzzi"
                          > > > <manuzzin@P...> wrote:
                          > > > > > Many factors contribute to skin, teeth, feet, disease,
                          > absence
                          > > of
                          > > > > > disease.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > - including genetics.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Not bad for a guy that according to you should have
                          > complications
                          > > > from
                          > > > > > a deteriorating liver.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > - cirrhosis caused by drinking is not genetic.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > - w/r/t your athletic accomplishments, I thank you for
                          > > > > validating my point. Feats of strength such as yours, which
                          I
                          > > > admire
                          > > > > greatly, are accomplished by a high concentration of fast
                          > twitch
                          > > > > muscle fiber and, given that fiber type, one would expect
                          > nearly
                          > > > > opposite aerobic performance. Remember flo-jo the world
                          > record
                          > > > hold
                          > > > > in the womans 100 meter? After the Olympics she stated she
                          > was
                          > > > going
                          > > > > after the world 5000 meter record. I think she got below 19
                          > > > minutes,
                          > > > > once. Did you know that for the most part world class
                          > sprinters
                          > > > have
                          > > > > >95% fast twitch fibers? Did you know that the most part
                          > world
                          > > > class
                          > > > > marathoners can have >95% slow twitch fibers? Why do you
                          > think
                          > > > the
                          > > > > Soviet block nations (and China today) scour ELEMETARY
                          schools
                          > > > > looking for potential athletes, most before they have ever
                          > > trained
                          > > > at
                          > > > > all? Lance Armstong - he was winning Triathlons at age 14,
                          > > > soundly
                          > > > > beating athletes who had trained longer than he was alive.
                          > Ever
                          > > > hear
                          > > > > the bodybuilder phrase, the goast in the machine? It means
                          the
                          > > > > genetic limitation on muscle size and definition.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > - w/r/t genetic changes, 3 generations scores a 0. It
                          > takes
                          > > > > 1000's or 10's of 1000's of generations for genetics to
                          > manifest
                          > > > > itself.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I am not a genetically gifted runner but after 34 years
                          of
                          > > > trying
                          > > > > I've beaten many who were more gifted than I. I've also been
                          > > > > clobered by those who are gifted AND WORK HARD. The top of
                          > any
                          > > > sport
                          > > > > is dominated by those with genetic gifts AND hard work.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Nick
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc M. McLellan"
                          > > > > <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                          > > > > > Many factors contribute to skin, teeth, feet, disease,
                          > absence
                          > > of
                          > > > > > disease.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > My grandfather who I've never met died from cirrhosis of
                          the
                          > > > liver
                          > > > > 10
                          > > > > > years before I was born (my grandmother drank excessively
                          > all
                          > > of
                          > > > her
                          > > > > > life). My father drinks to a stupor every night. I don't
                          > even
                          > > > > drink. I
                          > > > > > made my own choice.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I am a regular guy. In fact I have met a few of the group
                          > > > members. I
                          > > > > > have performed a world class feat strength (one-hand dead
                          > lift
                          > > > of
                          > > > > 315
                          > > > > > lbs).
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I was a pathetic runner. On the course in my neighborhood
                          > > (which
                          > > > is
                          > > > > > about 5.5 miles) my best was about 45 minutes struggling.
                          > Now,
                          > > > > after a
                          > > > > > couple of years my best is under 39 minutes.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Not bad for a guy that according to you should have
                          > > > complications
                          > > > > from
                          > > > > > a deteriorating liver.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Does 3 generations of couch potatoes yield a super race of
                          > couch
                          > > > > > potatoes? Able to sustain long periods without going to the
                          > > > > restroom. A
                          > > > > > super strong thumb for changing channels or better a mental
                          > > > ability
                          > > > > > change channels without a remote. How about a built in
                          drink
                          > > > holder
                          > > > > in
                          > > > > > their gut?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Are couch potatoes destined to breed more couch potatoes?
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Marc
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > >>> manuzzin@P... 8/2/2005 8:37:23 AM >>>
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Hmmm, eye color, height, hair color, skin, teeth, facial
                          > > > features,
                          > > > > > feet, disease, absence of disease; all of these are genetic
                          > but
                          > > > > > aerobic performace is not...
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, "Marc M. McLellan"
                          > > > > > <mmclellan@b...> wrote:
                          > > > > > > I do not believe in genetics. It is easy to give up and
                          > > > say "my
                          > > > > > geneitcs
                          > > > > > > are poor so why try".
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Running how you feel can lead to overtraining for most
                          > people.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Marc
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >>> manuzzin@P... 8/1/2005 9:12:10 AM >>>
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > resting heart rate - HR right as you wake up in the
                          > morning,
                          > > > > while
                          > > > > > > still in bed. Max heart rate, the maximum that you can
                          > > > attain,
                          > > > > > > usually determined during a VO2 max test in a lab (or,
                          > look
                          > > at
                          > > > > your
                          > > > > > > HRM as you sprint to the finish in a 5K..). There is a
                          > large
                          > > > > > genetic
                          > > > > > > component to both though the resting HR is generally most
                          > > > > effected
                          > > > > > by
                          > > > > > > training. What really changes is the amount of O2 you
                          > body
                          > > > can
                          > > > > > > extract/use at any give HR.
                          > > > > > > Lactate threshold is the percentage of your V02 max that
                          > you
                          > > > can
                          > > > > > > utilize. This percentage is low for the untrained (50-
                          > 60%)
                          > > > and
                          > > > > can
                          > > > > > > be extremely high in the genetically gifted (95% in some
                          > > elite
                          > > > > > > marathoners). Being an exercise physiologist and having
                          > run
                          > > > for
                          > > > > 35
                          > > > > > > years my advise is the toss the HRM. Run how you feel:
                          > easy
                          > > > is
                          > > > > > > easy, (NOT a specific HR) and hard is hard (if you are
                          > going
                          > > > all
                          > > > > > out
                          > > > > > > and your HR is not as high as you think it should be,
                          > you'll
                          > > > do
                          > > > > > > what???)
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > --- In RunningBarefoot@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Werner
                          > > > > > <djsuviva@y...>
                          > > > > > > wrote:
                          > > > > > > > People have different opinions about resting and max
                          > > > > > > > heart rate and their definitions. I define resting
                          > > > > > > > heart rate as your average resting heart rate during
                          > > > > > > > regular training without conscious lowering methods
                          > > > > > > > such as breathing exercises. I basically take my
                          > > > > > > > pulse when I first wake up during normal training
                          > > > > > > > weeks and average it over a week or so. Last time I
                          > > > > > > > did this it ended up around 55. I'm sure if I really
                          > > > > > > > wanted to slow it down I could take a few days off
                          > > > > > > > training and it would fall into the 40's fairly
                          > > > > > > > quickly. I think the lowest I've recorded is 46 (I
                          > > > > > > > don't remember exactly because that's not really what
                          > > > > > > > I pay attention to).
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > As for max heart rate, from what I've read it doesn't
                          > > > > > > > matter as much for us endurance runners. Lactate
                          > > > > > > > threshold matters. My lactate threshold is 167
                          > > > > > > > (according to my auto-learn HRM) and it extrapolates
                          > > > > > > > my max HR at 185 from that.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > kddubb
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > --- yannipapastavrou <yanni@p...> wrote:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Not really a barefoot question, but I wondered what
                          > > > > > > > > people's resting
                          > > > > > > > > heart rate is, if they know it and are not shy to
                          > > > > > > > > say.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > I'm particularly interested to know for those of you
                          > > > > > > > > who do high
                          > > > > > > > > weekly mileages and run marathons, but for others
                          > > > > > > > > too i'd also be
                          > > > > > > > > interested to know.
                          > > > > > > > > I haven't measured mine in a while so last night in
                          > > > > > > > > a very relaxed
                          > > > > > > > > state before sleeping, I measured mine. I was amazed
                          > > > > > > > > to see it
                          > > > > > > > > fluctuating around the low 40 mark. I remember
                          > > > > > > > > measuring it years ago
                          > > > > > > > > during an anatomy and physiology lab as a reasonably
                          > > > > > > > > fit 22 year old
                          > > > > > > > > and it was around 60. I remember the professor at
                          > > > > > > > > the time saying it
                          > > > > > > > > indicated I was pretty fit. I wonder what he would
                          > > > > > > > > say now about the
                          > > > > > > > > measured rate I acquired aged 35?
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Yanni
                          > > > > > > > > Barefoot runner since December 2004.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
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