Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Eric Space, Prize Pomp, and Leadership--Long reply

Expand Messages
  • Brigit
    Elsa and all ... opportunity ... elsewhere ... I ve been talking to some heavies recently about the whole list field issue--several of them have stated to me
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 2, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Elsa and all

      --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, "Else Hunrvogt"
      <nancyreimers@j...> wrote:
      > Rapier has fought too hard to get a place on the eric to give it up
      > when there are other options. Not all Kingdoms give that
      opportunity
      > to their rapier fighters. The eric is so central to West Kingdom
      > society. Rapier gets a lot of exposure on the eric. Going
      elsewhere
      > to fight prizes and the like will make things less prominent, not
      > more so.

      I've been talking to some heavies recently about the whole list field
      issue--several of them have stated to me that they think that we
      deserve space on the list field and that it's just going to be a
      matter of pressing polietly for it and "training" autocrats, etc. on
      the idea. They have suggested that space CAN be made for a fifth
      field (Crowns usually have four) that can run concurrently with heavy
      tournaments.

      In most instances, if a "T" shaped eric were set up (The rapier list
      field wouldn't have to be very large) like we had here in the Mists
      at Fall Coronet, fencers would be just as visible at heavies since
      they are IMMEDIATELY adjacent to the heavy list field--and it would
      actually create more space for those who insist on being on the
      eric. The suggestion was made that Herald's Point and the
      Chiurgeon's pavillion could be in the corners where the rapier eric
      meets the heavy eric and could therefore be readily available to meet
      the needs of both.

      We had a walkway between the fencing eric and heavy eric at Mists
      Fall Coronet and that worked great. It also allows fencers to fight
      throughout the day at Crowns and Coronets in full view of the
      populace. THis would also give us room to fight prizes and run
      classes in full view of the populace as well. If a "T" configuration
      is not to everyone's liking, or space does not allow such a wide list
      area, why not give us room at one end of the eric like they had for
      fencing at Estrella? The entire width of the list field was given
      over to fencing. We don't presently require a huge area and if we
      had one entire end, this would suffice.

      We will be using this "T" configuration again at Spring Mists Coronet
      if any of you care to see how it works. This, btw Thomas, is at the
      request of our Prince.

      I believe that either one of these ideas are a compromise that
      everyone can live with, it's just a matter of seeing that it CAN work
      and getting everyone responsible for how the list field is set up
      behind the idea. I don't think we need to stand around picking our
      noses at Crowns and Coronets.


      I agree that our current level of prizes is not "user friendly" and I
      like the Oreathan suggestions. Prizes were historically not a "test"
      but an acknowledgement of ability. Right now we run them as a test,
      which I think is discouraging to advancement. Our provosts and GMs
      need to be looking for people to advance and actively pushing them to
      advance--based on what they are already doing and skill level they
      already show. Let's stop making people FEAR their prize fight as if
      it were a final in college.

      > Make sure there is a gradually increase in skill level, endurance,
      > and spiff for each level's test. To follow Simon's suggestion,
      maybe
      > run the free scholars through journeyman or provost's at a guild
      > event. Reserve the Guildmaster's for Crowns/Coronations.

      Ah, but we don't HAVE seperate Guild events--and will we ever?
      Perhaps lesser prizes could be fought at smaller events such as White
      Sheild or A&S--but I don't think it is realistic at this time to even
      think we will be having seperate Guild events.


      >

      > Else replied:
      > I think the Guild would be very lucky to get Sorcha as Lord
      > Guildmaster. From what I have heard, she has largely been filling
      > that role at in Oertha. She has a really good perspective on what
      > the guild should be, as evidenced by the guide lines from Oertha.

      I think that we should consider a Deputy Lord Guild Minister position
      for Sorcha, with all due respect--as she would be largely unavailable
      to the majority of the fencing population given her state of
      residence. We need leadership HERE very badly in the central West.
      Having our LGM in Alaska would be very much like not having one at
      all.

      > From my perspective on the outside, leadership seems to be an area
      > where the guild is lacking. The guild needs a head, so that the
      head can guide the
      > actions of the energetic middle.

      Damn straight we do and I think it is time that the rest of us rise
      up and DEMAND that a Lord Guild Master be appointed. We are in
      violation of our Charter without one. If we can't get our GMs to
      agree on someone to lead from the GM level, then by god, we need to
      change that part of the charter and allow members at lower ranks to
      be appointed. Profiecancy in fencing does not mean ability to lead.
      We need a Guild Minister who will LEAD--I could care less if they are
      a Master fencer--I want a Master LEADER! Let's change the title to
      Guild Minister of Defense and drop the Lord Guild Master.
      >
      > I don't know if the lack of a Lord Guildmaster is a function of the
      > black scarves being burnt out, a function of it not being
      > specifically requested, or a function of the lack of a consensus
      > (Does no one want the job? Does no one think the job needs doing?

      It is, quite frankly, a function of personalities. I am not afraid
      to say it. If neither GM wants the other to lead, why should they
      promote the idea of appointing a LGM? This is another reason to
      amend the charter to allow those of lower rank to fill the position.
      Until this is done--we are looking at a stalemate, folks. We can
      talk all we want--Doug will not agree to have Mike lead and visa
      versa--and frankly--neither has shown the initiative we need to pull
      the GUild out of the doldrums it is in. As Elsa stated--we need a
      Guild Minister who doesn't just respond to requests but who actively
      LEADS!!!


      > does everyone want the job?). As stated in the past, Michael and
      > Coronado have been very responsive to specific petition. Maybe if
      > the guildmembers petition the Circle of Black Scarces to name a
      Lord
      > Guildmaster, with a time limit (by Beltane?), something will
      > happen.

      We've repeatedly asked for this. Nada. It's been two years since
      Brookes left the position. Going on three. So much for
      responsiveness.


      Brigit--your not so friendly anymore after waiting for two
      years "Revolution NOW!" voice
    • Staffan Arffuidson
      ... wrote: Elsa and all *****I ve been talking to some heavies recently about the whole list field issue--several of them have stated to
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 2, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, "Brigit"
        <brigitgoddess1@y...> wrote:

        Elsa and all

        *****I've been talking to some heavies recently about the whole list
        field issue--several of them have stated to me that they think that we
        deserve space on the list field and that it's just going to be a
        matter of pressing polietly for it and "training" autocrats, etc. on
        the idea. They have suggested that space CAN be made for a fifth
        field (Crowns usually have four) that can run concurrently with heavy
        tournaments.*****

        I agree that we (anyone who fences) need to maintain our foothold on
        the eric. We have been honored with it. I am at a loss on how we can
        do rapier combat as much as we used to, but we can try different
        things as we go. We'll get it right, soon.


        *****I agree that our current level of prizes is not "user friendly"
        and I like the Oreathan suggestions. Prizes were historically not a
        "test" but an acknowledgement of ability. Right now we run them as a
        test, which I think is discouraging to advancement. Our provosts and
        GMs need to be looking for people to advance and actively pushing them
        to advance--based on what they are already doing and skill level they
        already show. Let's stop making people FEAR their prize fight as if
        it were a final in college.*****

        I did not realize anyone saw their Prize as if they were taking a
        final. If we follow the Oerthan Guidelines, then we can hold the
        lower prizes at a practice. We would just need to advertise them well
        enough in advance so everyone who would like to attend can. What
        suggestions do people have on how to run a Prize better? How do our
        Oerthan Siblings run one?

        Also, Prize lenghts are currently being determined by the GuildMasters
        and Courtiers who run them. It is something we can suggest, however,
        I'd prefer to let them run Prizes how the GMoF/CttCotW as a whole have
        discussed.

        *****Ah, but we don't HAVE seperate Guild events--and will we ever?
        Perhaps lesser prizes could be fought at smaller events such as White
        Sheild or A&S--but I don't think it is realistic at this time to even
        think we will be having seperate Guild events.*****

        I agree, we should not have a seperate Guild event. That would just
        push fencing further away from the West Kingdom participation that we
        are maintaining. As for smaller events, I'd stay away from doing
        those as "Guild Only" events. I want as many fencers to show up and
        enjoy themselves. As for Else's comment about not bringing armor to
        an event that would have Guild activities, well I would not like being
        in the Guild if we can not have something for everyone.


        *****I think that we should consider a Deputy Lord Guild Minister
        position for Sorcha, with all due respect--as she would be largely
        unavailable to the majority of the fencing population given her state
        of residence. We need leadership HERE very badly in the central West.
        Having our LGM in Alaska would be very much like not having one at
        all.*****

        I disagree with you Brigit. The Lord GuildMaster should not need to
        be here. They would need to be capable of maintaining the Guild
        organization by making decisions that will help us flourish. They
        need to be informed on what people are doing within the Guild and how
        to better promote it. Now, the Guildmasters that you choose to learn
        from should be (relatively) close, so you can work with them, when
        necessary.


        *****Damn straight we do and I think it is time that the rest of us
        rise up and DEMAND that a Lord Guild Master be appointed. We are in
        violation of our Charter without one. If we can't get our GMs to
        agree on someone to lead from the GM level, then by god, we need to
        change that part of the charter and allow members at lower ranks to be
        appointed. Profiecancy in fencing does not mean ability to lead. We
        need a Guild Minister who will LEAD--I could care less if they are a
        Master fencer--I want a Master LEADER! Let's change the title to
        Guild Minister of Defense and drop the Lord Guild Master.*****

        We do need a leader. Yes, we are in violation of the charter because
        we do not have one. I have a suggestion, instead of removing the
        Grant of Arms award (Guild Master), I would like to suggest that we
        incorporate a Provost post. A position that covers the smaller
        details, like rosters and the overall promotion of the Guild. There
        is such a position in the Academie d'Espee and Lochac Royal Guild of
        Defence.


        *****It is, quite frankly, a function of personalities. I am not
        afraid to say it. If neither GM wants the other to lead, why should
        they promote the idea of appointing a LGM? This is another reason to
        amend the charter to allow those of lower rank to fill the position.
        Until this is done--we are looking at a stalemate, folks. We can
        talk all we want--Doug will not agree to have Mike lead and visa
        versa--and frankly--neither has shown the initiative we need to pull
        the GUild out of the doldrums it is in. As Elsa stated--we need a
        Guild Minister who doesn't just respond to requests but who actively
        LEADS!!!

        does everyone want the job?). As stated in the past, Michael and
        Coronado have been very responsive to specific petition. Maybe if
        the guildmembers petition the Circle of Black Scarces to name a Lord
        Guildmaster, with a time limit (by Beltane?), something will happen.

        We've repeatedly asked for this. Nada. It's been two years since
        Brookes left the position. Going on three. So much for
        responsiveness.*****

        I agree with Brigit here. We who are not apart of the GMoF circle do
        not see if there is anyone discussing, well, anything. It is not
        unlike other kingdoms where someone has been made a White Scarf and
        then disappears for a while. We are down to 4 GMoF/CttCotW that are
        still in kingdom (and active) from the 13 that have been awarded. I
        am not understanding why we can not have a leader.

        Staffan
      • crimsonkyl
        It was made known to me that my journeyman prize was a test and that I waas not up to snuff in certain areas of it. -Crimson ... list ... that we ... on ...
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 2, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          It was made known to me that my journeyman prize was a test and that
          I waas not up to snuff in certain areas of it.

          -Crimson

          --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, "Staffan Arffuidson"
          <arffuidson@y...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, "Brigit"
          > <brigitgoddess1@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Elsa and all
          >
          > *****I've been talking to some heavies recently about the whole
          list
          > field issue--several of them have stated to me that they think
          that we
          > deserve space on the list field and that it's just going to be a
          > matter of pressing polietly for it and "training" autocrats, etc.
          on
          > the idea. They have suggested that space CAN be made for a fifth
          > field (Crowns usually have four) that can run concurrently with
          heavy
          > tournaments.*****
          >
          > I agree that we (anyone who fences) need to maintain our foothold
          on
          > the eric. We have been honored with it. I am at a loss on how we
          can
          > do rapier combat as much as we used to, but we can try different
          > things as we go. We'll get it right, soon.
          >
          >
          > *****I agree that our current level of prizes is not "user
          friendly"
          > and I like the Oreathan suggestions. Prizes were historically not
          a
          > "test" but an acknowledgement of ability. Right now we run them
          as a
          > test, which I think is discouraging to advancement. Our provosts
          and
          > GMs need to be looking for people to advance and actively pushing
          them
          > to advance--based on what they are already doing and skill level
          they
          > already show. Let's stop making people FEAR their prize fight as
          if
          > it were a final in college.*****
          >
          > I did not realize anyone saw their Prize as if they were taking a
          > final. If we follow the Oerthan Guidelines, then we can hold the
          > lower prizes at a practice. We would just need to advertise them
          well
          > enough in advance so everyone who would like to attend can. What
          > suggestions do people have on how to run a Prize better? How do
          our
          > Oerthan Siblings run one?
          >
          > Also, Prize lenghts are currently being determined by the
          GuildMasters
          > and Courtiers who run them. It is something we can suggest,
          however,
          > I'd prefer to let them run Prizes how the GMoF/CttCotW as a whole
          have
          > discussed.
          >
          > *****Ah, but we don't HAVE seperate Guild events--and will we
          ever?
          > Perhaps lesser prizes could be fought at smaller events such as
          White
          > Sheild or A&S--but I don't think it is realistic at this time to
          even
          > think we will be having seperate Guild events.*****
          >
          > I agree, we should not have a seperate Guild event. That would
          just
          > push fencing further away from the West Kingdom participation that
          we
          > are maintaining. As for smaller events, I'd stay away from doing
          > those as "Guild Only" events. I want as many fencers to show up
          and
          > enjoy themselves. As for Else's comment about not bringing armor
          to
          > an event that would have Guild activities, well I would not like
          being
          > in the Guild if we can not have something for everyone.
          >
          >
          > *****I think that we should consider a Deputy Lord Guild Minister
          > position for Sorcha, with all due respect--as she would be largely
          > unavailable to the majority of the fencing population given her
          state
          > of residence. We need leadership HERE very badly in the central
          West.
          > Having our LGM in Alaska would be very much like not having one at
          > all.*****
          >
          > I disagree with you Brigit. The Lord GuildMaster should not need
          to
          > be here. They would need to be capable of maintaining the Guild
          > organization by making decisions that will help us flourish. They
          > need to be informed on what people are doing within the Guild and
          how
          > to better promote it. Now, the Guildmasters that you choose to
          learn
          > from should be (relatively) close, so you can work with them, when
          > necessary.
          >
          >
          > *****Damn straight we do and I think it is time that the rest of us
          > rise up and DEMAND that a Lord Guild Master be appointed. We are
          in
          > violation of our Charter without one. If we can't get our GMs to
          > agree on someone to lead from the GM level, then by god, we need to
          > change that part of the charter and allow members at lower ranks
          to be
          > appointed. Profiecancy in fencing does not mean ability to lead.
          We
          > need a Guild Minister who will LEAD--I could care less if they are
          a
          > Master fencer--I want a Master LEADER! Let's change the title to
          > Guild Minister of Defense and drop the Lord Guild Master.*****
          >
          > We do need a leader. Yes, we are in violation of the charter
          because
          > we do not have one. I have a suggestion, instead of removing the
          > Grant of Arms award (Guild Master), I would like to suggest that we
          > incorporate a Provost post. A position that covers the smaller
          > details, like rosters and the overall promotion of the Guild.
          There
          > is such a position in the Academie d'Espee and Lochac Royal Guild
          of
          > Defence.
          >
          >
          > *****It is, quite frankly, a function of personalities. I am not
          > afraid to say it. If neither GM wants the other to lead, why should
          > they promote the idea of appointing a LGM? This is another reason
          to
          > amend the charter to allow those of lower rank to fill the
          position.
          > Until this is done--we are looking at a stalemate, folks. We can
          > talk all we want--Doug will not agree to have Mike lead and visa
          > versa--and frankly--neither has shown the initiative we need to
          pull
          > the GUild out of the doldrums it is in. As Elsa stated--we need a
          > Guild Minister who doesn't just respond to requests but who
          actively
          > LEADS!!!
          >
          > does everyone want the job?). As stated in the past, Michael and
          > Coronado have been very responsive to specific petition. Maybe if
          > the guildmembers petition the Circle of Black Scarces to name a
          Lord
          > Guildmaster, with a time limit (by Beltane?), something will
          happen.
          >
          > We've repeatedly asked for this. Nada. It's been two years since
          > Brookes left the position. Going on three. So much for
          > responsiveness.*****
          >
          > I agree with Brigit here. We who are not apart of the GMoF circle
          do
          > not see if there is anyone discussing, well, anything. It is not
          > unlike other kingdoms where someone has been made a White Scarf and
          > then disappears for a while. We are down to 4 GMoF/CttCotW that
          are
          > still in kingdom (and active) from the 13 that have been awarded.
          I
          > am not understanding why we can not have a leader.
          >
          > Staffan
        • Else Hunrvogt
          ... As for Else s comment about not bringing armor to ... being ... Staffan, Let me clarify my comment. It s not that I wouldn t attend an event that has
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 3, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, "Staffan Arffuidson"
            <arffuidson@y...> wrote:
            >
            As for Else's comment about not bringing armor to
            > an event that would have Guild activities, well I would not like
            being
            > in the Guild if we can not have something for everyone.

            Staffan,

            Let me clarify my comment. It's not that I wouldn't attend an event
            that has guild activities. It's that I probably wouldn't plan on
            bringing armor if all the rapier fighting time was devoted to an
            activity in which I do not/ can not participate. I can find lots of
            stuff to do at the event.

            I have no problems with prizes being fought only by guild members.
            With the prize as test model, it makes a lot of sense. You need to
            have the "examiners" in the test be familiar with the requirements at
            that level. I am the first to admit I have no idea what skills the
            WKGoD is looking for when advancing people in rank.

            Else
          • annaserre
            Not only that but he found about 40 fights, non-stop. Only the last 15 were for the actual prize because all the rest were with those with lower rank. An 1
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 4, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Not only that but he found about 40 fights, non-stop. Only the last
              15 were for the actual "prize" because all the rest were with those
              with lower rank. An 1 1/2 hour prize is a test, not an
              acknowledgement of knowledge or skill.

              Anna

              --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, "crimsonkyl"
              <crimsonkil@l...> wrote:
              >
              > It was made known to me that my journeyman prize was a test and
              that
              > I waas not up to snuff in certain areas of it.
              >
              > -Crimson
              >
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.