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Re: [RoyalGuildofDefense] nominations for Patron and Patroness of the Guild

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  • Tim Converse
    I would like to speak about each of these nominations as I believe I am in a very good position to do so. First to Baron Erich and Baroness Lisel. I have
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 16, 2008
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      I would like to speak about each of these nominations as I believe I am
      in a very good position to do so.

      First to Baron Erich and Baroness Lisel. I have served as the Rapier
      Champion to Darkwood for the past two years. I held the office longer
      then the usual year because of a number of different factors, including
      the growth of Caer Darth Rapier Event. They have, through this entire
      time, been extremely supportive of everything I have done and encouraged
      my efforts to grow rapier in the Barony and The Principality of The
      Mists. When His Excellency Leon von Schrecken won Coronet and asked me
      to be his rapier champion I asked for their permission. Not only did
      they give it but they encouraged it to help the continued growth of
      rapier in The Mists.

      The Barony of Darkwood also has what it calls "The Company of Rangers."
      Baroness Lisel specifically asked me to complete the requirements to
      join this company so that I would be the first rapier fighter to join
      the Rangers and be able to foster more rapier fighters into the
      community (I was made a Ranger this past weekend). Last years
      Whiteshield event saw the rapier fighters included for the first time as
      a part of Invocation as the insistence of both the Baron and Baroness
      and at this years Whiteshield event they insisted that the final round
      of both the heavy fighters and the rapier fighters be fought one after
      the other on the same field so that they and the entire populace could
      watch both.

      Baroness Ghislaine is my apprentice. As part of the efforts put out by
      myself and Seaghdha Cameron, she supported the growth of a new rapier
      community in her Barony of Vinhold. She arranged to drive her new
      fighters from Vallejo to Fremont every other Tuesday to come to a
      fighter practice half way in between Vinhold and Darkwood so that we
      could train them up. She has donated money to her rapier fighters to
      help them purchase gear and she has helped them by becoming an
      authorized Combat Marshal. She regularly heralds for the rapier fields
      and has even helped some of the rapier fighters register names and devices.

      I heartily support all three for such a recognition.

      Master Juan Santiago, OL
      Provost of The Guild of Defense
      Rapier Champion of The Barony of Darkwood

      Ximon el Martillo de Cordoba wrote:
      > To Our Esteemed Lady Guildmistress and to the memebers of the Guild,
      >
      > I wanted to open a discussion on the guild possibly recognizing 3
      > people who I feel should be given thanks for the support of both
      > rapier in the West and to members of the guild. I only remeber one
      > time in my experience that we as a guild have given such a
      > recognition to a person for thier suppport of rapier and the Guild,
      > which was Anna Serre.
      >
      >
      > This past weekend I attended an event that was put on by the Barony
      > of Darkwood [ http://baronyofdarkwood.org/ ] which is an annual
      > event. Their current Baron and Baroness, Erich der Helmschmied and
      > Liesl Helmschmiedin have for several years been staunch supporters of
      > rapier. It is my impression that they do hold their rapier champion
      > to a high standard and not just "have an office" to wear the schwag.
      > They do expect quality things from that person.
      >
      > Also Baroness of Vinhold [http://vinhold.org/%5d, Madame Ghislaine
      > d'Auxerre has supported rapier in her barony, even recently taking
      > classes with her fighters to better understand rapier.
      >
      > both of these groups, specifically their barons and baronesses,I feel
      > have contributed even indirectly to the growth of rapier and
      > fostering of the guild in this kingdom.
      >
      > With all that said, and with the final decision to Our Lady
      > Guildmistress, what criteria should we consider in recognizing a
      > Patron/Patroness of the Guild?
      >
      > And what suggested means can we use to recognize them?
      >
      >
      > Ximon
      > Journeyman
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Ximon el Martillo de Cordoba
      ... Guild. ... gift ... from the ... Guild. ... (once a ... Principality ... two ... to ... that ... support ... during ... announcement ... ======= Sorcha,
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 16, 2008
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        --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, "Beth Berry (Sorcha
        Careman)" <sorcha@...> wrote:
        >
        > There have actually been two recognitions for Patronage of the
        Guild.
        > Anne Serre was the first, and Elizabeth de Gresse in Oertha was the
        > second for her constant support and making of items for the Royal
        gift
        > bags given in the North. Both recipients received a Certificate
        from the
        > Lady Guildmistress in recognition of becoming Patronesses of the
        Guild.
        >
        > In Oertha, we regularly give gift baskets to the local Royalty
        (once a
        > year for each of the 3 Baronies and twice a year for at the
        Principality
        > level for each of the reigns). Elizabeth Katherine DeGrasse has
        > regularly supplied hand made items for these baskets over the last
        two
        > years. I can always rely on a supply of items from her. There are
        > Lucet strings for tokens, Inkle woven bands, Card woven bands just
        to
        > name a few.
        >
        > If asking for time in court for something like this, keep in mind
        that
        > the courts are the business of that Royal Head and not that of the
        > Guild. This is a recognition and thank you from the Guild for
        support
        > to the Guild. Other options are to request the help of a herald
        during
        > down time at an event to gather folks and then to have the
        announcement
        > made.
        >
        > Sorcha Careman
        > LGM


        =======

        Sorcha,

        Thank you for speaking about Elizabeth Katherine DeGrasse.

        As to the other issue about possibly making a presentation in court,
        I for one, would not mind if that was something that the guild could
        do publicly, but not necessarily in court. I am of the mind that the
        guild could gather at an event that those recognized would be at and
        present it there maybe inving them to a meeting specifically for them.

        Ximon
        Journeyman
      • Edgar Branscum
        Greetings, First off, before I say anything that might be taken wrong, let me just say that these two individuals sound perfectly deserving of recognition and
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 16, 2008
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          Greetings,

          First off, before I say anything that might be taken wrong, let me just say that these two individuals sound perfectly deserving of recognition and highly deserving of honor for their general support of rapier.  It sounds as if they have gone well beyond the normal bounds of being even enthusiastic supporters.

          I would just like to ask a question to clarify a point. 
          Are we giving the patron/patroness recognition for rapier support in general or for support of the Guild in particular?
          If this patron/patroness recognition is for support of the Guild have they done things for the Guild?  What is it that they have done that the Guild specifically can honor them for....if this recognition is for the Guild but they are not doing things for the Guild specifically, then by all means lets see that they are recognized  but with a more  appropriate recognition.  However, if the patron/patroness recognition is for the support of the rapier community more generally, it sounds as if these two are prime examples of who we should be recognizing.

          Again, I mean absolutely no disrespect here, I am merely asking in order to clarify the requisites that we will be basing future recognitions on.

          Alaryn Aecenstaeff
          Provost, WKGoD


          Ximon el Martillo de Cordoba <xochimil@...> wrote:
          --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, "Beth Berry (Sorcha
          Careman)" wrote:
          >
          > There have actually been two recognitions for Patronage of the
          Guild.
          > Anne Serre was the first, and Elizabeth de Gresse in Oertha was the
          > second for her constant support and making of items for the Royal
          gift
          > bags given in the North. Both recipients received a Certificate
          from the
          > Lady Guildmistress in recognition of becoming Patronesses of the
          Guild.
          >
          > In Oertha, we regularly give gift baskets to the local Royalty
          (once a
          > year for each of the 3 Baronies and twice a year for at the
          Principality
          > level for each of the reigns). Elizabeth Katherine DeGrasse has
          > regularly supplied hand made items for these baskets over the last
          two
          > years. I can always rely on a supply of items from her. There are
          > Lucet strings for tokens, Inkle woven bands, Card woven bands just
          to
          > name a few.
          >
          > If asking for time in court for something like this, keep in mind
          that
          > the courts are the business of that Royal Head and not that of the
          > Guild. This is a recognition and thank you from the Guild for
          support
          > to the Guild. Other options are to request the help of a herald
          during
          > down time at an event to gather folks and then to have the
          announcement
          > made.
          >
          > Sorcha Careman
          > LGM


          =======

          Sorcha,

          Thank you for speaking about Elizabeth Katherine DeGrasse.

          As to the other issue about possibly making a presentation in court,
          I for one, would not mind if that was something that the guild could
          do publicly, but not necessarily in court. I am of the mind that the
          guild could gather at an event that those recognized would be at and
          present it there maybe inving them to a meeting specifically for them.

          Ximon
          Journeyman



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        • Tim Converse
          Alaryn, A good question. Again, since I m pretty close to the three people being mentioned let me see if I can bring some additional light to the party here.
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 17, 2008
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            Alaryn,

            A good question. Again, since I'm pretty close to the three people
            being mentioned let me see if I can bring some additional light to the
            party here.

            First with regards to Baroness Ghislaine. As my apprentice she is very
            aware of my participation in the Guild. She has been supporting her
            fighters and encouraging them towards an appreciation of the historical
            aspects of rapier fighting, not just being rapier fighters in the SCA.
            She was the one who provided them with transportation and a hotel room
            to be able to attend the recent Capo Ferro seminar we hosted. I can say
            with a good deal of certainty that her support is Guild oriented in that
            respect and the fighters in her Barony are already asking me for
            assessments with regards to whether or not they are ready to play their
            first prizes.

            With regards to Baron Eric and Baroness Lisel, their support I believe
            is more general in nature. They are very much more focused on the
            continued growth of the over all rapier community, but they are aware of
            the Guild and recognize it as one of the means by which the rapier
            community at large can continue to grow. It is clear to me that they
            support rapier as a whole, as they recognize that Darkwood has a great
            deal of influence not just in the Mists, but throughout the central
            Kingdom. With that in mind I recognize that they might not be as
            solidly recognizable as supporters of the Guild, but I think I can still
            speak in good conscience when I say that I think such a recognition
            would not be beyond the realm of possibility. They are, of course, *MY*
            Baron and Baroness (*grin*) so I suppose it could be argued that I have
            a bit of a soft spot for them, but then that is true of all three of
            these people anyway.

            So for what it's worth, I do think they are all three still worth
            considering, but I do recognize the question and appreciate your asking it.

            Thanks!

            Santiago

            Edgar Branscum wrote:
            > Greetings,
            >
            > First off, before I say anything that might be taken wrong, let me
            > just say that these two individuals sound perfectly deserving of
            > recognition and highly deserving of honor for their general support of
            > rapier. It sounds as if they have gone well beyond the normal bounds
            > of being even enthusiastic supporters.
            >
            > I would just like to ask a question to clarify a point.
            > Are we giving the patron/patroness recognition for rapier support in
            > general or for support of the Guild in particular?
            > If this patron/patroness recognition is for support of the Guild have
            > they done things for the Guild? What is it that they have done that
            > the Guild specifically can honor them for....if this recognition is
            > for the Guild but they are not doing things for the Guild
            > specifically, then by all means lets see that they are recognized but
            > with a more appropriate recognition. However, if the
            > patron/patroness recognition is for the support of the rapier
            > community more generally, it sounds as if these two are prime examples
            > of who we should be recognizing.
            >
            > Again, I mean absolutely no disrespect here, I am merely asking in
            > order to clarify the requisites that we will be basing future
            > recognitions on.
            >
            > Alaryn Aecenstaeff
            > Provost, WKGoD
            >
            >
            > */Ximon el Martillo de Cordoba <xochimil@...>/* wrote:
            >
            > --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, "Beth Berry (Sorcha
            > Careman)" wrote:
            > >
            > > There have actually been two recognitions for Patronage of the
            > Guild.
            > > Anne Serre was the first, and Elizabeth de Gresse in Oertha was the
            > > second for her constant support and making of items for the Royal
            > gift
            > > bags given in the North. Both recipients received a Certificate
            > from the
            > > Lady Guildmistress in recognition of becoming Patronesses of the
            > Guild.
            > >
            > > In Oertha, we regularly give gift baskets to the local Royalty
            > (once a
            > > year for each of the 3 Baronies and twice a year for at the
            > Principality
            > > level for each of the reigns). Elizabeth Katherine DeGrasse has
            > > regularly supplied hand made items for these baskets over the last
            > two
            > > years. I can always rely on a supply of items from her. There are
            > > Lucet strings for tokens, Inkle woven bands, Card woven bands just
            > to
            > > name a few.
            > >
            > > If asking for time in court for something like this, keep in mind
            > that
            > > the courts are the business of that Royal Head and not that of the
            > > Guild. This is a recognition and thank you from the Guild for
            > support
            > > to the Guild. Other options are to request the help of a herald
            > during
            > > down time at an event to gather folks and then to have the
            > announcement
            > > made.
            > >
            > > Sorcha Careman
            > > LGM
            >
            >
            > =======
            >
            > Sorcha,
            >
            > Thank you for speaking about Elizabeth Katherine DeGrasse.
            >
            > As to the other issue about possibly making a presentation in court,
            > I for one, would not mind if that was something that the guild could
            > do publicly, but not necessarily in court. I am of the mind that the
            > guild could gather at an event that those recognized would be at and
            > present it there maybe inving them to a meeting specifically for them.
            >
            > Ximon
            > Journeyman
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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          • Edgar Branscum
            Greetings Santiago, Thank you for the reply and the further information. It sounds to me like Baroness Ghislaine is more than qualified to be put forth as a
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 17, 2008
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              Greetings Santiago,

              Thank you for the reply and the further information.   It sounds to me like Baroness Ghislaine is more than qualified to be put forth as a potential Patroness of the Guild.  Anyone who would put up the transportation and lodgings for people to attend a seminar on period historical fencing, and who has continued to work towards pushing the pursuit of education about historical fencing has done the Guild a great service.  I have no doubt that she will continue to do so in the future and deserves to be recognized.
              Also, I do understand having a potential soft spot for your own Baron and Baroness, and not knowing them myself will bow to yours and others more personal knowledge of them and not object if the group decides  that general support of the rapier community falls within the purview of recognition of a Patron/Patroness of the Guild. 
              Any others have opinions on the question?  Just what are we looking for in making the recommendations for Patron/Patroness of the Guild?

              In Service to Her Majesty,
              Alaryn Aecenstaeff,
              Provost, WKGoD

              Tim Converse <santiago@...> wrote:
              Alaryn,

              A good question. Again, since I'm pretty close to the three people
              being mentioned let me see if I can bring some additional light to the
              party here.

              First with regards to Baroness Ghislaine. As my apprentice she is very
              aware of my participation in the Guild. She has been supporting her
              fighters and encouraging them towards an appreciation of the historical
              aspects of rapier fighting, not just being rapier fighters in the SCA.
              She was the one who provided them with transportation and a hotel room
              to be able to attend the recent Capo Ferro seminar we hosted. I can say
              with a good deal of certainty that her support is Guild oriented in that
              respect and the fighters in her Barony are already asking me for
              assessments with regards to whether or not they are ready to play their
              first prizes.

              With regards to Baron Eric and Baroness Lisel, their support I believe
              is more general in nature. They are very much more focused on the
              continued growth of the over all rapier community, but they are aware of
              the Guild and recognize it as one of the means by which the rapier
              community at large can continue to grow. It is clear to me that they
              support rapier as a whole, as they recognize that Darkwood has a great
              deal of influence not just in the Mists, but throughout the central
              Kingdom. With that in mind I recognize that they might not be as
              solidly recognizable as supporters of the Guild, but I think I can still
              speak in good conscience when I say that I think such a recognition
              would not be beyond the realm of possibility. They are, of course, *MY*
              Baron and Baroness (*grin*) so I suppose it could be argued that I have
              a bit of a soft spot for them, but then that is true of all three of
              these people anyway.

              So for what it's worth, I do think they are all three still worth
              considering, but I do recognize the question and appreciate your asking it.

              Thanks!

              Santiago


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            • Staffan Arffuidsson
              I agree with the nominations. Staffan
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 18, 2008
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                I agree with the nominations.

                Staffan
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