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Re: Polls

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  • crimsonkyl
    David, I have been reminded on more than one occasion that we are NOT a polling order; more precisely, the powers that be don t care if we want more
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 18, 2005
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      David,
      I have been reminded on more than one occasion that we are NOT
      a polling order; more precisely, the powers that be don't care if we
      want more guildmasters, or want to change the charter.
      That being said, who would everyone WANT for a guildmaster or
      LGM? I would put forward Simon de Cordoba, Staffan Arffuidson, and
      Else Hungrofft <sp?>. They do most of the work, show up the most
      and have the most positive influence on fencing.
      Is there a concensus among us fencers as to who we think should
      be guild masters?

      -Crimson


      --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, "David Falcon"
      <dkball@h...> wrote:
      >
      > We have, so far, just under half the members voting in the polls,
      and
      > the results are almost unanimous that:
      >
      > Fencing should be done on both the main field as well as on a
      > separate field as deemed appropriate.
      >
      > Fencing is as valid as ANY other SCA activity. Tournaments,
      Training,
      > and pick-up bouts should be allowed at any time except during
      finals
      > at crown and during court.
      >
      > Fencing should not be restricted to the Main List fields
      >
      > Fencing should not be prohibited at Crown events.
      >
      > Not unanimous, but worth note:
      > There is little support for a permanent 5th field
      >
      > There is little support for focusing on Sundays at Crown events.
      >
      > Also:
      > There appears to be a majority feeling that a prize should be the
      > deciding factor in promotions, though with a significant number
      > dissenting.
      >
      > Perhaps most importantly:
      > The poll comes out unanimous, with all in favor of appointing a
      new
      > Lord Guildmaster as soon as possible.
      >
      > All voting said that we need new Guildmasters appointed ASAP, and
      > that they believe there are currently qualified candidates to fill
      > the slots.
      >
      > The polls are still open if you have yet to have your voice
      counted.
    • haenterprises
      ... Crimson, By the rules of the Guild, none of the people you mention could be made a Guildmaster. Staffan and Simon are both journeymen, and even if they
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 18, 2005
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        crimsonkyl wrote:

        >
        > David,
        > I have been reminded on more than one occasion that we are NOT
        > a polling order; more precisely, the powers that be don't care if we
        > want more guildmasters, or want to change the charter.
        > That being said, who would everyone WANT for a guildmaster or
        > LGM? I would put forward Simon de Cordoba, Staffan Arffuidson, and
        > Else Hungrofft <sp?>. They do most of the work, show up the most
        > and have the most positive influence on fencing.
        > Is there a concensus among us fencers as to who we think should
        > be guild masters?
        >
        > -Crimson

        Crimson,

        By the rules of the Guild, none of the people you mention could be
        made a Guildmaster.
        Staffan and Simon' are both journeymen, and even if they played their
        prize at Crown, it would be an absolute minimum of 6 months before they
        could even be considered for guildmaster status. Else is not even a
        member of the Guild, so even if she changed that decision, it would be a
        minimum of 15 months before she could be considered. And since there is
        neither a LGM nor a duly appointed representative, by it's own charter,
        the Guild can not consider elevating anyone to guildmaster status. None
        of the other possible canidates (provosts)listed on the Guild website is
        likely to be a better option, due to location, activity level, or (it
        does have to be stated) approval by the Crown, etc.

        The structure of the Guild charter prevents the very people whose
        leadership is needed from being in the position to lead. Catch 22.


        alail/scott
      • violacarara
        we have long over looked many who have strived to support this art we love.... Let us not forget Nytshaed......he has contributed much to this kingdom, the
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 20, 2005
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          we have long over looked many who have strived to support this art
          we love....
          Let us not forget Nytshaed......he has contributed much to this
          kingdom, the guild and rapier as a whole

          Viola

          --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, haenterprises
          <haenterprises@m...> wrote:
          > crimsonkyl wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > David,
          > > I have been reminded on more than one occasion that we are
          NOT
          > > a polling order; more precisely, the powers that be don't care
          if we
          > > want more guildmasters, or want to change the charter.
          > > That being said, who would everyone WANT for a guildmaster
          or
          > > LGM? I would put forward Simon de Cordoba, Staffan Arffuidson,
          and
          > > Else Hungrofft <sp?>. They do most of the work, show up the most
          > > and have the most positive influence on fencing.
          > > Is there a concensus among us fencers as to who we think
          should
          > > be guild masters?
          > >
          > > -Crimson
          >
          > Crimson,
          >
          > By the rules of the Guild, none of the people you mention could
          be
          > made a Guildmaster.
          > Staffan and Simon' are both journeymen, and even if they played
          their
          > prize at Crown, it would be an absolute minimum of 6 months before
          they
          > could even be considered for guildmaster status. Else is not even
          a
          > member of the Guild, so even if she changed that decision, it
          would be a
          > minimum of 15 months before she could be considered. And since
          there is
          > neither a LGM nor a duly appointed representative, by it's own
          charter,
          > the Guild can not consider elevating anyone to guildmaster
          status. None
          > of the other possible canidates (provosts)listed on the Guild
          website is
          > likely to be a better option, due to location, activity level, or
          (it
          > does have to be stated) approval by the Crown, etc.
          >
          > The structure of the Guild charter prevents the very people
          whose
          > leadership is needed from being in the position to lead. Catch 22.
          >
          >
          > alail/scott
        • violacarara
          ... I do not understand this comment......the poll results I saw this morning were 36.36% Prize should be decideing factor....45.45% should be SHOW only Viola
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 20, 2005
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            --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, "David Falcon"
            <dkball@h...> wrote:
            > Also:
            > There appears to be a majority feeling that a prize should be the
            > deciding factor in promotions, though with a significant number
            > dissenting.
            >
            I do not understand this comment......the poll results I saw this
            morning were 36.36% Prize should be decideing factor....45.45%
            should be SHOW only

            Viola
          • Nytshaed(Douglas Leonard)
            Gotta second that Boggle? from Viola David. I see only a total 12 and 17 votes in the two polls you site as being most important. In the poll about putting
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 21, 2005
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              Gotta second that "Boggle?" from Viola David.

              I see only a total 12 and 17 votes in the two polls
              you site as being most important.
              In the poll about putting on a good show vs testing
              and possibly failing folks at public prizes there were
              3 options with 2 votes, 4 votes and 6 votes...and the
              50% majority opined that it should be a show rather
              than a Trial...

              The big poll that 76 people voted in had a maximum
              of 12(15.79%) folks agreeing on any of the choices. I
              cannot see anything remotely resembling a majority,
              much less the Unanimity you stated.

              I have seen a lot of calls for action and
              fundamental changes to the Guild and its charter and I
              think polls are a useful tool that should be taken
              with a massive dose of other input. I would caution
              everyone - not just David - that making sweeping
              statements based on them can lead to "quick-fix"
              decisions that often cause more harm than good.

              Nytshaed

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            • Else Hunrvogt
              ... In regards to polls and surveys, I had an epidemiology professor in Grad School who always said All Indians walk single file. At least the one I saw did
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 21, 2005
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                --- In RoyalGuildofDefense@yahoogroups.com, "Nytshaed\(Douglas
                Leonard\)" <nytshaed1967@y...> wrote:
                > Gotta second that "Boggle?" from Viola David.
                > The big poll that 76 people voted in had a maximum
                > of 12(15.79%) folks agreeing on any of the choices. I
                > cannot see anything remotely resembling a majority,
                > much less the Unanimity you stated.

                In regards to polls and surveys, I had an epidemiology professor in
                Grad School who always said "All Indians walk single file. At least
                the one I saw did"

                I'll speak to the first poll, since I didn't vote in the Second or
                third and thus can't see the results.

                76 probably isn't a fair denominator since there are only 22 people
                subscribed to this group. As I interpret this poll, there are two
                possible denominators. The first would be 18 since (from adding up
                the responses to the first 4 questions) that seems to be the number
                of unique individuals responding to the poll. The second would be 22
                since that is the number of individuals eligible to answer based on
                being a member of this yahoo group. BTW in surveys a 81% response
                rate is phenomenal. Under those two cases the results would be
                (hopefully the formatting will hold):

                Question # Yes % Yes/18 % Yes/ 22

                only on main 2 11% 9%
                permanent field 3 17% 14%
                usually separate 1 6% 5%
                both 12 67% 55%

                No Crown fight 0 0% 0%
                Sundays 2 11% 9%

                tourneys any 10 56% 45%
                No finals 11 61% 50%
                No court 10 56% 45%

                Training any 10 56% 45%
                No finals 8 44% 36%
                No court 7 39% 32%


                Either way, this group seems to be fairly closely divided on the
                issues in question, with the possible exception of fighting on the
                main eric and else where as is appropriate.

                Else
              • David Falcon
                ... A good question with a simple answer. The purpose of my post was to get more people to vote. Thus it did, and so the number changed between the time I
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 22, 2005
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                  > I do not understand this comment......the poll results I saw this
                  > morning were 36.36% Prize should be decideing factor....45.45%
                  > should be SHOW only
                  >
                  > Viola

                  A good question with a simple answer. The purpose of my post was to
                  get more people to vote. Thus it did, and so the number changed
                  between the time I posted and the time you looked. That's a good
                  thing. As I see it now that the poll is closed, it is a dead heat
                  between those that want the prize to be a deciding factor and those
                  who do not (with only 2 who want the prize to be the deciding factor
                  also wanting a delay of announcement).
                  It is still the overwhelming view of those polled that we need a Lord
                  Guildmaster and that we have fully qualified candidates who should be
                  advanced quickly for the good of the Guild. Will it happen? I don't
                  know, but it does provide a few interesting talking points for a
                  Guild meeting.
                  And, of course Else, being all educated like she is, got it spot
                  on in understanding that 76 votes out of 20 is not likely to happen
                  (well, maybe in Chicago... ;-). The Polls on Yahoogroups are limited,
                  and a bit of thoughtful analysis is required.

                  David
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