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Re: [Romanshield] Digest Number 41

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  • Rich
    Could also be a crystal as the top of the standard. Antefix of legio xx often show this behind the boar totem, and archaeologists found several with a standard
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 2, 2010
      Could also be a crystal as the top of the standard. Antefix of legio xx often show this behind the boar totem, and archaeologists found several with a standard on the palatine a few years ago that the think were part of maxentius' imperial standard, maybe. 

      Sent via my iPhone.

      On Feb 2, 2010, at 3:43 AM, Romanshield@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      Messages In This Digest (1 Message)



      Re: symbolism of Hagal/double Trident in Roman shields

      Posted by: "Erich Torn" sapientia88@...   sapientia88

      Mon Feb 1, 2010 9:27 am (PST)

      > I enlarged the image of the eagle side of the coin until it began
      > to degrade. What it looks like to me is more like an ankh with
      > a single thinner line crossing at the intersection.

      It is certainly not an ankh - see links below

      > Hard to know what it might have meant to the people to whom
      > the coin was "new".

      Yes, this is an important question - if it meant "God" or "Eternal Time" or
      both - "The God-Eternal Time" then we are on a right track
      The original meaning of this pre-Christian symbol is still disputed, but the
      version existing is:

      quoting Frank C. Higgins "Ancient Freemasonry" (1919):

      "A still more wonderful symbol of these old cosmic speculations is found in
      the famous monogram X P, “chi rho,” which is the origin of the name of the
      modern city near which the pyramid stands – Cairo. [Corrupted by the Arabs
      to “El Kahiryeh”] This monogram, although placed on the labarum, or
      standard, of Constantine the Great, in accordance with a vision, appears on
      Egyptian coins of the Ptolemies and on Indian coins several hundred years
      B.C. It is the old Sanskrit word “Rch,” meaning “light,” and the Egyptian
      derivative meaning “Ch R” or Horus, the animating spirit of the earth,
      “Horus of the Pole” and “Horus of the Two Horizons”, so he is called".

      quote [http://www.perillos .com/socang_ 6.html] :

      "Higgins’ statement that the word Chi-Rho derives from the ancient Egyptian
      “Ch R” for Horus, is significant and supports the belief that Jesus “the
      Christ” was based on the pagan Horus “the KRST” – the son and reincarnation
      of Osiris the ‘resurrection god’.

      ...The epithets given to Horus – “of the Pole” – “of the Two Horizons” as
      mentioned in the quote by Higgins, shows a connection between the
      shamanic/pagan ‘resurrection god’ (e.g., Osiris, Horus,) and the earth’s
      axis, as well as the rising and setting positions of the sun as it moves
      back and forth between its extreme solstice points on the horizon".

      Regarding the coins:

      The Catholic Encyclopedia reports [
      http://www.newadven t.org/cathen/ 10488a.htm] that the Greek letters XP
      combined in a monogram occur on pre-Christian coins (e. g. the Attic
      tetradrachma and some coins of the Ptolemies).

      These examples are:

      Ptolemy I coin --
      http://www.icollect or.com/ANCIENT- COINS-Greek- Kingdom-of- Egypt-Ptolemy- I-c-304-283- BC-AE-26mm- laureate- head-o_i8680427
      all Ptolemy III coins listed here --
      http://www.megagem. com/ancient/ ptolemy_chirho. html
      Ptolemy III coins no. AE 23.1, AE Hemidrachm, Svoronos 964.1-8, Svoronos
      964, Svoronos 965.1-4, Svoronos 965, Sear #7817 listed here --
      http://www.wildwind s.com/coins/ greece/egypt/ ptolemy_III/ t.html
      Ptolemy V coin AE 24 here --
      http://www.wildwind s.com/coins/ greece/egypt/ ptolemy_V/ t.html

      You may find the resolution better on some of these images

      > I can say with reasonable certainty that the Late Roman/early
      > Church people used Chi-Rho to represent Christ

      Most probably yes - they took the symbol of God which existed before which
      fitted very well with their belief of God (J.C. or X P) and simply used it
      afterwards implying their meaning of J.C. as savior
      Now the original meaning and origin of this symbol is lost among Christians
      However those who first decided to incorporate it into a new emerging
      religion most probably were very well aware of its original meaning - can't
      prove that, of course

      Regarding late Romans - if [majority of] legionaries were Christianized by
      the time they started to use Chi-Ro on their shields so they also might have
      not been aware of its origin

      > Holding your first two fingers slightly separated and vertically, does
      > that mean "V" as Churchill meant, V for Victory, or as the deaf hand
      > spelling means just the letter V, or does it mean "peace" as the hippies
      > in the 60s used it, or both? ...generally speaking, it can mean any of
      > those things, depending on context today.

      The example with letter "V" is not exactly appropriate since it is not
      religious/occult/ esoteric symbol and hence does not have such significance
      Context defines the meaning - yes, but occult/esoteric symbols are much more
      stable and long-lasting; less dependent on context (if disregarding
      profanation, or out-of-usual (esoteric) -contexts usage)

      Vindex est Venturus!
      ToDR 115 yf, ONA
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