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Rome In The First Century On PBS

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  • Lady Marian
    Hey All: Has anybody else seen the recent PBS airing of Rome In the First Century ? If so, what did you think? I d love to hear others opinions! :) So
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 26, 2001
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      Hey All:
      Has anybody else seen the recent PBS airing of "Rome In the First Century"? If so, what did you think? I'd love to hear others' opinions! :)
      So far, I've only seen Part I, but I thought the producers/writers did a good job (and Sigourney Weaver was the narrarator). Does anybody have any book suggestions about this period on Roman history, both fiction and non-fiction?
      Thanks much,
      Denise
      Boris Raymond <braymond@...> wrote: Why not have for a change, a discussion on some aspect of "The Fall of
      Rome" circa A.D. 440 to 476?
      Boris Raymond [braymond@...]

      On 26 Jul 2001 Roman_History_Books@yahoogroups.com wrote:

      >
      > There are 2 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1. Book Chats - August Recess / Suggestions
      > From: IrenesBooks@...
      > 2. Re: Book Chats - August Recess / Suggestions
      > From: valentina casa <thelma_72@...>
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 1
      > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:27:46 EDT
      > From: IrenesBooks@...
      > Subject: Book Chats - August Recess / Suggestions
      >
      > Hi All!
      >
      > July chats were a dud, and I have decided to call a recess for August: I'll
      > be away myself for at least two weeks.
      >
      > We'll start again in September, hopefully with "I, Claudius" if everyone
      > agrees.
      >
      > Meanwhile, I've direct e-mailed our "regulars" already for input, and now
      > looking for yours too. Any suggestions/questions on the chats?
      >
      > You can put them either here or e-mail me directly at IrenesBooks@....
      >
      > Looking forward to hearing from you,
      >
      > Irene
      > http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/
      > Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
      > http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start
      > Forum Book Discussions
      > http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist2/start
      >
      >
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      > ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 2
      > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:47:24 +0200 (CEST)
      > From: valentina casa <thelma_72@...>
      > Subject: Re: Book Chats - August Recess / Suggestions
      >
      > Have a good holidays.
      > Valentina Casa
      > --- IrenesBooks@... ha scritto:
      > <HR>
      > <html><body>
      > <tt>
      > Hi All!<BR>
      > <BR>
      > July chats were a dud, and I have decided to call a
      > recess for August: I'll <BR>
      > be away myself for at least two weeks.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > We'll start again in September, hopefully with
      > "I, Claudius" if everyone <BR>
      > agrees.<BR>
      > <BR>
      > Meanwhile, I've direct e-mailed our
      > "regulars" already for input, and now <BR>
      > looking for yours too.  Any suggestions/questions
      > on the chats?<BR>
      > <BR>
      > You can put them either here or e-mail me directly at
      > IrenesBooks@....<BR>
      > <BR>
      > Looking forward to hearing from you,<BR>
      > <BR>
      > Irene<BR>
      > <a
      > href="http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/">http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/</a><BR>
      > Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum<BR>
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      > Forum Book Discussions<BR>
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    • IrenesBooks@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/26/01 4:13:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... For a poll and earlier opinions go here:
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 26, 2001
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        In a message dated 7/26/01 4:13:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
        marianofsherwood95@... writes:

        > Has anybody else seen the recent PBS airing of "Rome In the First Century"?

        > If so, what did you think? I'd love to hear others' opinions! :)

        For a poll and earlier opinions go here:
        http://forums.about.com/ab-ancienthist/messages?msg=2161.1

        As you see, I (aka RomaHOST) was greatly outvoted <grin>

        I saw Part Two last night, and didn't like it either. You wouldn't know from
        the show that there was a "Year of the Four Emperors", nor that Titus Flavius
        existed.

        And to all: Please give your opinion here on Yahoo too....

        For books, here is my reading list:
        http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/booklist1a.htm

        Irene
        http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/
        Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
        http://forums.about.com/ab-ancienthist/start
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        http://forums.about.com/ab-ancienthist2/start
      • Jay Latona
        Hi All, I hurried home last night to catch the show on PBS. I didn t know it would be 2 hours. The video portions of the show did not support the audio very
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 26, 2001
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          Hi All,

          I hurried home last night to catch the show on PBS.
          I didn't know it would be 2 hours.
          The video portions of the show did not support the audio very well.
          They did an interesting seque from Claudius to Nero to Vespasian.
          And they did try to put things into historical perspective, such as
          Nero's wanting to distract the public from his reign of terror by
          persecuting the Christians.
          And Saul's life was blended in very well into what else Rome was doing
          at the time.
          And I was amused by one of the historians saying that "ROme's dirty little
          secret" was that generals with the requisite might can be candidates
          for the next emperor position opening up. Now that's a big secret, except
          Marius, Sulla, and Caesar all did it in the last century.

          So all in all, they did a good job giving you a flavor of life in the
          first century under Roman rule..
          It was very ambitious and I feel that the tapes for
          $30 is a good buy for someone wanting to get a sense of what was
          going on in the known world after Augustus took over in 31 B.C.

          I really feel that all ancient history lovers should be thankful that
          "Gladiator" made such a big splash in Western society. That movie will spawn
          a lot of Roman history movie-making.

          I was so motivated after seeing "Gladiator" that I joined the book chat
          on Augustus and then got this great idea to go to Rome and investigate
          the ruins there once again (after 11 years).
          So I went to Rome; took tours of the Forum ruins; and even found the
          place where old Julius was assassinated (in Pompei's curio).
          And I have the photos and videos to prove it.

          So there's my take on the impact of "Roman Empire in the First Century".
          That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

          Jay

          --- IrenesBooks@... wrote:
          > In a message dated 7/26/01 4:13:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
          > marianofsherwood95@... writes:
          >
          > > Has anybody else seen the recent PBS airing of "Rome In the First Century"?
          >
          >
          > > If so, what did you think? I'd love to hear others' opinions! :)
          >
          > For a poll and earlier opinions go here:
          > http://forums.about.com/ab-ancienthist/messages?msg=2161.1
          >
          > As you see, I (aka RomaHOST) was greatly outvoted <grin>
          >
          > I saw Part Two last night, and didn't like it either. You wouldn't know from
          > the show that there was a "Year of the Four Emperors", nor that Titus Flavius
          >
          > existed.
          >
          > And to all: Please give your opinion here on Yahoo too....
          >
          > For books, here is my reading list:
          > http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/booklist1a.htm
          >
          > Irene
          > http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/
          > Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
          > http://forums.about.com/ab-ancienthist/start
          > Forum Book Discussions
          > http://forums.about.com/ab-ancienthist2/start
          >


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        • Judy Geary
          I m always glad to see history popularized even if it s superficial. For Rome in the first century, Lindsey Davis is a fun read. (I note, but tolerate minor
          Message 4 of 21 , Jul 26, 2001
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            I'm always glad to see history "popularized" even if it's superficial. For Rome in the first century, Lindsey Davis is a fun read. (I note, but tolerate minor anachronisms.)

            JG

            Lady Marian wrote:

            > Hey All:
            > Has anybody else seen the recent PBS airing of "Rome In the First Century"? If so, what did you think? I'd love to hear others' opinions! :)
            > So far, I've only seen Part I, but I thought the producers/writers did a good job (and Sigourney Weaver was the narrarator). Does anybody have any book suggestions about this period on Roman history, both fiction and non-fiction?
            > Thanks much,
            > Denise
            > Boris Raymond <braymond@...> wrote: Why not have for a change, a discussion on some aspect of "The Fall of
            > Rome" circa A.D. 440 to 476?
            > Boris Raymond [braymond@...]
            >
            > On 26 Jul 2001 Roman_History_Books@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > There are 2 messages in this issue.
            > >
            > > Topics in this digest:
            > >
            > > 1. Book Chats - August Recess / Suggestions
            > > From: IrenesBooks@...
            > > 2. Re: Book Chats - August Recess / Suggestions
            > > From: valentina casa <thelma_72@...>
            > >
            > >
            > > ________________________________________________________________________
            > > ________________________________________________________________________
            > >
            > > Message: 1
            > > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:27:46 EDT
            > > From: IrenesBooks@...
            > > Subject: Book Chats - August Recess / Suggestions
            > >
            > > Hi All!
            > >
            > > July chats were a dud, and I have decided to call a recess for August: I'll
            > > be away myself for at least two weeks.
            > >
            > > We'll start again in September, hopefully with "I, Claudius" if everyone
            > > agrees.
            > >
            > > Meanwhile, I've direct e-mailed our "regulars" already for input, and now
            > > looking for yours too. Any suggestions/questions on the chats?
            > >
            > > You can put them either here or e-mail me directly at IrenesBooks@....
            > >
            > > Looking forward to hearing from you,
            > >
            > > Irene
            > > http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/
            > > Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
            > > http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start
            > > Forum Book Discussions
            > > http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist2/start
            > >
            > >
            > > ________________________________________________________________________
            > > ________________________________________________________________________
            > >
            > > Message: 2
            > > Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 19:47:24 +0200 (CEST)
            > > From: valentina casa <thelma_72@...>
            > > Subject: Re: Book Chats - August Recess / Suggestions
            > >
            > > Have a good holidays.
            > > Valentina Casa
            > > --- IrenesBooks@... ha scritto:
            > > <HR>
            > > <html><body>
            > > <tt>
            > > Hi All!<BR>
            > > <BR>
            > > July chats were a dud, and I have decided to call a
            > > recess for August: I'll <BR>
            > > be away myself for at least two weeks.<BR>
            > > <BR>
            > > We'll start again in September, hopefully with
            > > "I, Claudius" if everyone <BR>
            > > agrees.<BR>
            > > <BR>
            > > Meanwhile, I've direct e-mailed our
            > > "regulars" already for input, and now <BR>
            > > looking for yours too.  Any suggestions/questions
            > > on the chats?<BR>
            > > <BR>
            > > You can put them either here or e-mail me directly at
            > > IrenesBooks@....<BR>
            > > <BR>
            > > Looking forward to hearing from you,<BR>
            > > <BR>
            > > Irene<BR>
            > > <a
            > > href="http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/">http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/</a><BR>
            > > Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum<BR>
            > > <a
            > > href="http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start">http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist/start</a><BR>
            > > Forum Book Discussions<BR>
            > > <a
            > > href="http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist2/start">http://www.delphi.com/ab-ancienthist2/start</a><BR>
            > > </tt>
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          • IrenesBooks@aol.com
            Here is the PBS website: http://www.pbs.org/empires/romans/empire/index.html Irene http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/ Co-host, Ancient/Classical
            Message 5 of 21 , Jul 26, 2001
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            • Lady Marian
              Thanks, Irene, for the PBS link! Did you watch Part I & II of Rome in the First Century ? If so, what did you think? Denise
              Message 6 of 21 , Jul 27, 2001
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                Thanks, Irene, for the PBS link! Did you watch Part I
                & II of "Rome in the First Century"? If so, what did
                you think?

                Denise



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              • Lady Marian
                Hi Judy: So you thought Rome in the First Century was superficial? If so, why? Just curious ....! :) Fair Winds & Blessings, Denise ===== Blessings & Fair
                Message 7 of 21 , Jul 27, 2001
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                  Hi Judy:

                  So you thought "Rome in the First Century" was
                  superficial? If so, why? Just curious ....! :)

                  Fair Winds & Blessings,

                  Denise



                  =====

                  Blessings & Fair Winds,

                  Denise


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                • Lady Marian
                  Thanks, Jay, for sharing your opinion on Rome in the First Century! Neat observations! So -- would you care to perhaps share your photos of your recent
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jul 27, 2001
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                    Thanks, Jay, for sharing your opinion on "Rome in the
                    First Century!" Neat observations! So -- would you
                    care to perhaps share your photos of your recent trip
                    to Rome with us listmates?

                    I've seen "Gladiator" (so far) six times, and have
                    loved it each time. And have gleaned new
                    info/insights from each viewing, too. Even wrote and
                    published a short essay on the film's impact on my
                    life. And you're right -- this movie will, no doubt,
                    spawn other Roman-era type films that once were so
                    popular in the 1950's and 1960's. Only question is:
                    will these newer films be as high of quality as
                    "Gladiator"? One can fervently hope so! (And I do
                    hope none will be parodies of toga parties!)

                    Denise


                    =====

                    Blessings & Fair Winds,

                    Denise


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                  • Jay Latona
                    Hi Denise. I am just now organizing my photos and notes for a website. I wanted to accomplish a few things during my impromptu European jaunt: 1. find out
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jul 27, 2001
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                      Hi Denise.
                      I am just now organizing my photos and notes for a website.
                      I wanted to accomplish a few things during my impromptu European
                      jaunt:
                      1. find out about cheap fares to Europe
                      2. go through the Forum ruins in Rome again.
                      3. explore Sicily and visit Greek/Roman ruins there
                      4. and look into my roots on Sicily (somewhere above Agrigento)

                      I will let you know the URL once I establish the site.
                      Thanks for your interest.

                      Regarding "Gladiator":
                      1. The acting, costumes, battle scenes, special effects were all
                      terrific.
                      2. the sense of place and time in Rome was excellent and a credit to
                      Ridley Scott the director.
                      3. the contrived story involving the Emperor Commodus was tedious
                      and not true to history.

                      Here's hoping there are producers who have the courage to gather up
                      more hundreds of millions of dollars to create more "swords and sandals"
                      epics for our viewing pleasure.

                      Jay

                      --- Lady Marian <marianofsherwood95@...> wrote:
                      > Thanks, Jay, for sharing your opinion on "Rome in the
                      > First Century!" Neat observations! So -- would you
                      > care to perhaps share your photos of your recent trip
                      > to Rome with us listmates?
                      >
                      > I've seen "Gladiator" (so far) six times, and have
                      > loved it each time. And have gleaned new
                      > info/insights from each viewing, too. Even wrote and
                      > published a short essay on the film's impact on my
                      > life. And you're right -- this movie will, no doubt,
                      > spawn other Roman-era type films that once were so
                      > popular in the 1950's and 1960's. Only question is:
                      > will these newer films be as high of quality as
                      > "Gladiator"? One can fervently hope so! (And I do
                      > hope none will be parodies of toga parties!)
                      >
                      > Denise
                      >
                      >
                      > =====
                      >
                      > Blessings & Fair Winds,
                      >
                      > Denise
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
                      > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
                      >


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                    • IrenesBooks@aol.com
                      In a message dated 7/27/01 3:08:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Not much! Rather uncritical use of available sources. Too many images, repeat images,
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jul 27, 2001
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                        In a message dated 7/27/01 3:08:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                        marianofsherwood95@... writes:

                        > If so, what did
                        > you think?

                        Not much! Rather uncritical use of available sources. Too many images,
                        repeat images, background sound.

                        Irene
                        http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/
                        Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
                        http://forums.about.com/ab-ancienthist/start
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                      • Todd Sigler
                        Hi Irene (and group)- I enjoyed the special for what it was, which was a cliff notes version of history. But you are right, the repeated images (the one of a
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jul 27, 2001
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                          Hi Irene (and group)-
                          I enjoyed the special for what it was, which was a
                          cliff notes version of history. But you are right,
                          the repeated images (the one of a window's image on a
                          wall, presumably in the Senate seemed to be repeated
                          every 5 minutes or so) were annoying and distracting.

                          Todd
                          --- IrenesBooks@... wrote:
                          > In a message dated 7/27/01 3:08:24 PM Eastern
                          > Daylight Time,
                          > marianofsherwood95@... writes:
                          >
                          > > If so, what did
                          > > you think?
                          >
                          > Not much! Rather uncritical use of available
                          > sources. Too many images,
                          > repeat images, background sound.
                          >
                          > Irene
                          > http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/
                          > Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
                          > http://forums.about.com/ab-ancienthist/start
                          > Forum Book Discussions
                          > http://forums.about.com/ab-ancienthist2/start
                          >


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                        • IrenesBooks@aol.com
                          There were a lot of image repeats which I think were for budgetary reasons, such as the same houses/buildings/reenactment figures shown all over again. I have
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jul 27, 2001
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                            There were a lot of image repeats which I think were for budgetary reasons,
                            such as the same houses/buildings/reenactment figures shown all over again. I
                            have no quarrel with that, I objected to the _number_ of images. It was
                            really more the repeat waves, the water and the flames that seemed so
                            unnecessary.

                            The only image repeat that I thought was really weird was the collapsing
                            toga: It was used for both the assassination of Caesar and the discovery of
                            Claudius behind the curtain... very unimaginative, IMO.

                            The relentless background music is personal gripe of mine for all
                            documentaries in recent years: I'm wearing a hearing aid (not deaf enough for
                            CC though) and spoken word with music in the background is rather hard to
                            follow. They even used it with the talking heads. I think documentary
                            producers really have boxed themselves in with that technique. I propose an
                            Emmy for the first one who manages to get out of that box <grin>

                            Irene
                          • David Wend
                            I have not yet viewed much of Rome In The First Century but it cannot help being superficial. I saw a portion where Pliny the Younger was being discussed
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jul 27, 2001
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                              I have not yet viewed much of "Rome In The First Century" but it cannot help
                              being superficial. I saw a portion where Pliny the Younger was being discussed
                              with his role of serving the tyrant Domitian and living to hate it. I find
                              Pliny an interesting person but he certainly did enjoy advancement under
                              Domitian even though he knew several members of the "Stoic Opposition."
                              Domitian could have refused Pliny advancement on this basis. In fact, he
                              allowed honors to several people with connections to this group. It is not
                              often mentioned that Domitian was somewhat conciliatory to the opposition.

                              So, I find programs like this one interesting but no substitute for reading.

                              Judy Geary wrote:

                              > Hi Denise,
                              >
                              > Actually I was responding to another's comment. My feeling is that 4 fours
                              > to cover essentially 150 years (Part one started with Augustus), must be
                              > superficial.
                              >
                              > Gotta go. Watching a special on gladiators.
                              >
                              > Judy
                              >
                              > Lady Marian wrote:
                              >
                              > > Hi Judy:
                              > >
                              > > So you thought "Rome in the First Century" was
                              > > superficial? If so, why? Just curious ....! :)
                              > >
                              > > Fair Winds & Blessings,
                              > >
                              > > Denise
                              > >
                              > > =====
                              > >
                              > > Blessings & Fair Winds,
                              > >
                              > > Denise
                              > >
                              > > __________________________________________________
                              > > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
                              > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            • Judy Geary
                              Hi Denise, Actually I was responding to another s comment. My feeling is that 4 fours to cover essentially 150 years (Part one started with Augustus), must be
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jul 27, 2001
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                                Hi Denise,

                                Actually I was responding to another's comment. My feeling is that 4 fours
                                to cover essentially 150 years (Part one started with Augustus), must be
                                superficial.

                                Gotta go. Watching a special on gladiators.

                                Judy

                                Lady Marian wrote:

                                > Hi Judy:
                                >
                                > So you thought "Rome in the First Century" was
                                > superficial? If so, why? Just curious ....! :)
                                >
                                > Fair Winds & Blessings,
                                >
                                > Denise
                                >
                                > =====
                                >
                                > Blessings & Fair Winds,
                                >
                                > Denise
                                >
                                > __________________________________________________
                                > Do You Yahoo!?
                                > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
                                > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • IrenesBooks@aol.com
                                Pliny seems to have had a rather uninterrupted career. Here is a timeline: http://www.umich.edu/~classics/latin/231/231pliny.html Irene Irene
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jul 27, 2001
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                                  Pliny seems to have had a rather uninterrupted career. Here is a timeline:

                                  http://www.umich.edu/~classics/latin/231/231pliny.html

                                  Irene

                                  Irene
                                  http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/
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                                • Lady Marian
                                  Hi All: Thanks for answering my questions about Rome in the First Century on PBS (I ll be watching Part II this evening; I had it taped earlier in the week).
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jul 28, 2001
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                                    Hi All:
                                    Thanks for answering my questions about "Rome in the First Century" on PBS (I'll be watching Part II this evening; I had it taped earlier in the week). Do any of you folks on this list have good book suggestions on the life of Pliny The Elder/Pliny the Younger/Domition/Vespasian!
                                    Thanks!




                                    Blessings & Fair Winds,

                                    Denise



                                    ---------------------------------
                                    Do You Yahoo!?
                                    Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
                                    http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Jimmyjb
                                    ... I don t know about the others but imho Barbara Levick s _Vespasian_ was published by Routledge (in the UK) about three years ago and is still in print. It
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jul 28, 2001
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                                      Lady Marian wrote:

                                      > ... Do any of you folks on this list have good book suggestions on the life of Pliny The Elder/Pliny the Younger/Domition/Vespasian! Thanks!

                                      I don't know about the others but imho Barbara Levick's _Vespasian_ was published by Routledge (in the UK) about three years ago and is still in print. It is probably the only book on Vespasian in print, but very worth while as are all of Dr. Levick's biographies of the early
                                      emperors. I believe she has an older work on Claudius, also quite good. Bernard Henderson's treatment of Vespasian in his Five Roman Emperors (based heavily on Plutarch) is also pretty informative, but is long out of print (1927 with a 1970 reprint) and is made obsolete by Levick's
                                      research.
                                      ----------
                                      BTW, I promised Irene a tidbit on Cleopatra and Herod -- possibly of interest to the current book discussion, or the one that has been postponed. Just a bit of irony. Here goes.

                                      Julius Caesar and Antony's Cleopatra tried to persuade Marcus to free up some of the lands of Rome's Judaean client Herod the Great to add to her Greater Eastern Empire (or whatever that co-dominion was to be known) but Antony stood by his backer to the north, even though Herod's
                                      loyalties had proven fickle, switching allegiances according to the way the power struggle was going...he later switched over to Octavian. Julius had to "disengage" from Cleopatra much as Antony also threw her over.

                                      Herod's granddaughter, Queen Berenice (who allegedly had an incestuous relationship with her brother Herod Agrippa II) acted as a Judaean Cleopatra: she was a scheming "eastern princess" who had snared a Roman ruler...in this case Titus. The Senate and People forced Titus to renounce
                                      his conniving mistress, much as his predecessors had to drop Cleopatra under popular pressure.

                                      I always like to find these parallels in ancient history. Who knows, perhaps Berenice was emulating
                                      the Egyptian princess in her way. Berenice was allowed to remain in Rome, where she wielded some influence through her brother Agrippa II. The latter had sided with Rome in the Great Judaean Revolt and was in some favor with the Flavian house. Titus' short life did not permit us to
                                      know whether he might have resumed his attachment to Berenice. It says much for Berenice's charms that she was in her forties (and Titus in his twenties) when she was his mistress.

                                      Jim Bloom
                                    • IrenesBooks@aol.com
                                      [Thank you, Jim, for Herod] Yes, Barbara Levick s Vespasian (and her Claudius ) is excellent, as is Pat Southern s Domitian, Tragic Tyrant . Since each
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jul 28, 2001
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                                        [Thank you, Jim, for Herod]

                                        Yes, Barbara Levick's "Vespasian" (and her "Claudius") is excellent, as is
                                        Pat Southern's "Domitian, Tragic Tyrant".

                                        Since each book heavily relies on annalistic data and other ancient records,
                                        one can find information on the Plinys too in there.

                                        Then there is Julian Bennett's "Trajan, Optimus Princeps", which also deals
                                        with Pliny the Younger.

                                        You find all these on my reading list:
                                        http://romanhistorybooksandmore.freeservers.com/booklist1a.htm

                                        Irene
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                                        Co-host, Ancient/Classical History Forum
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