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Beginnings of Rome - Livy

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  • IrenesBooks@aol.com
    Hello, all! Of the responses I had for starting out with Livy vs. going directly to Hannibal, there was only one vote for Hannibal. So, Livy it is! Books I
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 20, 2000
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      Hello, all!

      Of the responses I had for starting out with Livy vs. going directly to
      Hannibal, there was only one vote for Hannibal.

      So, Livy it is! Books I through V, from the founding of Rome through the
      Gallic occupation in 386 BCE.

      We will start the discussion on Wednesday, February 16, 2000. I assume that
      we probably need at least three chats for this.

      As to getting Livy, you either can use the online version:
      http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new?id=Liv1His&tag=public&images=i
      mages/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&part=0. I will post all 5
      links on the website soon.

      Or get the book. I bought the Penguin Classics Paperback Edition, "The Early
      History of Rome", ISBN 0140441042.

      Related background readings will be put on the website soon too. I'll let
      you know when it's ready.

      I'm really looking forward to this!

      Irene
    • Jimmyjb
      Irene, Regarding your collateral readings, I wonder if you or the list would be interested in my suggestions on background reading for Hannibal. I know that
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 21, 2000
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        Irene,

        Regarding your collateral readings, I wonder if you or the list would be
        interested in my
        suggestions on background reading for Hannibal. I know that the group opted for
        Livy over
        Hannibal ( I assume you mean a study of Hannibal per se rather than the sources).
        However, in
        completing my review of George P. Baker's _Hannibal_ (1929, reissued in pbk in
        1999) for the H-War newslist, I was able to compile and evaluate a comprehensive
        list of Hannibal studies, popular, academic and military- professional. Please let
        me know if you or anyone on the list would like my in-put.

        Best regards,
        Jim Bloom
      • IrenesBooks@aol.com
        Jim, your list of Hannibal studies would be wonderful! The group did not really opt for Livy over Hannibal, but Livy first, thereafter the Hannibal novels. We
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 21, 2000
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          Jim, your list of Hannibal studies would be wonderful!

          The group did not really opt for Livy over Hannibal, but Livy first,
          thereafter the Hannibal novels. We often, though not really by design,
          alternate between fiction and non-fiction.

          I will put your list on the website, giving you due credit.

          Thanks!

          Irene
        • Jimmyjb
          Irene (and group) Here are some modern studies on Hannibal. I have make brief annotations. De Beer, Gavin. Alps and Elephants: Hannibal s March. NY:
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 22, 2000
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            Irene (and group)

            Here are some modern studies on Hannibal. I have make brief annotations.

            De Beer, Gavin. Alps and Elephants: Hannibal's March. NY: Dutton, 1956
            and Hannibal: Challenging Rome's Supremacy. NY: Viking, 1969,
            Both are out of print but are easy reading, if a bit too flamboyant in
            places. DeBeer is respected by scholars in general, though he writes for a
            popular audience. Lots of illustrations.

            Lamb, Harold. Hannibal: One Man Against Rome. Garden City, NY: Doubleday,
            1958
            Lamb is a well-known popularizer who also tries to get his details right.
            This is likewise out of print. Lamb is usually a "first book" (or only book)
            for folks who want a nice basic introduction to
            historical "greats".

            Proctor, Dennis. Hannibal's March in History. Oxford: Clarendon, 1971.
            Back and forth on the noted (or notorious) conjecture about what Alpine pass
            Hannibal used
            and why. Or, as some might say, who cares.

            Lazenby, J.F. Hannibal�s War, Wiltshire:Aris & Phillips, 1978, reprinted
            with new preface, Norman, Oklahoma: University of Oklahoma Press, 1998.
            Outstanding military account, well written. Scholarly without being
            stuffy. If you like
            well-informed accounts of battles, strategy, tactics, logistics and all like
            that there, this is the book to read. Available through Amazon, B&N in a
            reasonable paperback edition.

            Peddie, John. Hannibal�s War; Gloucestire: Sutton Publishing Limited, 1997.
            A bit pricey (about $35) but also a very well done military account with
            good illustrations and
            written in a lively, conversational style.


            Lancel, Serge: Hannibal ; Malden: Blackwell Publishers Inc., 1998 is
            translated from the 1995 French original and furnishes a needed Carthaginian
            perspective, all of our extant primary sources reflecting Romano-centric
            biases.

            Cornell,T., Rankov, B. and Sabin. P. The Second Punic War: A Reappraisal,
            Bulletin of the Institute of Classical Studies, Supplement 67 (London,
            1996).
            Scholarly debate over various aspects --- mostly on the military side. Well
            done. A bit hard to
            come by though available. Has to be special ordered, though I believe Amazon
            and B&N can
            get it for you. Reflects latest scholarship.

            There are several books focusing on the Punic Wars which that similarly
            present a good military critique of Hannibal, prominent among which are
            Field Marshall Nigel Bagnall�s The Punic Wars (1990) and Brian Caven�s
            similarly titled 1980 work, both emphasizing the battles and strategies.

            Bradford, Ernle D. Hannibal. NY: McGraw-Hill, 1981, Cottrell, Leonard.
            Hannibal, Enemy of Rome. NY: Holt, 1961, John, Prevas: Hannibal Crosses
            The Alps. ; Rockville Center,N.Y.: Sarpedon, 1998.. These are in the
            "popular" vein. Bradford and Cottrell focus on the military aspect but are a
            bit too "colorful" for my taste, i.e., make unsupported, and undocumented,
            assertions. Cottrell and Prevas are still available, Cottrell in pb. Prevas'
            book is broader than its
            title indicates, giving a concise background of the entire war.

            Baker, George P. Hannibal. Cooper Square Press, NY, 1999 (reprint of the
            1929 edition).
            Good solid narrative, firmly rooted in Polybius and Livy. Footnoted where
            necessary but not
            to excess. Engages the ancient sources in debate where he disagrees. He is a
            popularizer, but
            knows his stuff. Some of the political science philosophizing about forms of
            government,
            and ethnic style is a bit dated, reflecting 1920s racial stereotyping, but
            this doesn't predominate.
            Very good review of the campaign up through Zama and the after-effects. At
            $16.95 a good
            buy.

            Between Cottrell and Baker, I'd go for the latter.
            For military history buffs, Lazenby, or Peddie. Lancel is also good on the
            military bit and
            really knows the Carthaginian side. Latter will be in paperback soon, or may
            be already.

            Hope this helps.

            Jim Bloom
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