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Re: New poll for RomanByzantineAltHist

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  • st_prez
    I m new here, but I can t vote for any of them. You ve missed mine, which is the death of John V in the plague and the retirement of John VI to a monastery in
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 10, 2004
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      I'm new here, but I can't vote for any of them. You've missed mine, which is the death of John V in the plague and the retirement of
      John VI to a monastery in favour of Stephen I Doutzianos. This puts the vestiges of the Empire together with the tentative beginnings
      of Serbia in the Balkans -- thus uniting the defensible parts of the Oikumene and keeping the Turks on the other side of the straits.
      Give Stephen I another 8-10 years to consolidate. Even after the brief reign of his son Stephen II Orosius, things have recovered
      enough for Lazarus I Turcoctonus to crush an Ottoman army at Mavrornithou, pushing the frontier back into Bithynia. This, in turn,
      gives the Empire enough breathing space to take advantage of Tamerlane's invasion at the end of the century, making an alliance to
      push the Ottomans out of most of Asia Minor. When Timur dies, Byzantium is the major beneficiary.

      (I take it on from here to WWI, with the British invasion at Gallipolis, and the revolution of 1918. Byzantium would have been Hitler's
      particular bete noir, as completely non-racial state, so many of those tank battles would have been fought out in the flat parts of
      Romania and the Hungarian puszta, since Muscovy would in any case have been part of the Axis because Novgorod would have been
      on the Allied side. The Cold War starts as a three-sided one, among Byzantium, the US and Novgorod. As of last year, the Ottoman
      caliph Saddam, a US client based in Samarra, is threatening Byzantine client states Armenia and Eretz Israel with missile attacks . .
      .)

      --- In RomanByzantineAltHist@yahoogroups.com, RomanByzantineAltHist@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      >
      > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
      > RomanByzantineAltHist group:
      >
      > If you could go back in time to any
      > turning point in History that proved
      > to be negative for Byzantium and alter
      > it in favor of the Byzantines, which
      > point would you select?
      >
      > o the 500's when the Byzantines tried to reconquer Western Europe
      > o When the Muslims came storming out of Arabia in the 600's
      > o The Battle of Manzikert in 1071 AD
      > o The fourth "Crusade" in 1203-1204 AD
      > o the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 AD
      >
      >
      > To vote, please visit the following web page:
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RomanByzantineAltHist/surveys?id=11131198
      >
      > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
      > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
      > web site listed above.
      >
      > Thanks!
    • Sebastian Brier
      Hi St._Prez, I like that angle for althist. Sorry I haven t been active on here for a while; it ll probably be a while too before I can spend time on history.
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 11, 2004
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        Hi St._Prez,
         
        I like that angle for althist.
         
        Sorry I haven't been active on here for a while; it'll probably be a while too before I can spend time on history.  Got tons of stuff going on!
         
        I'll get back to writing my AH books sometime though.  Until then...
         
        Sebastian Brier
        www.ACFC-KS.org
        www.MillionDadsMarch.org

        st_prez <st_prez@...> wrote:
        I'm new here, but I can't vote for any of them.  You've missed mine, which is the death of John V in the plague and the retirement of
        John VI to a monastery in favour of Stephen I Doutzianos.  This puts the vestiges of the Empire together with the tentative beginnings
        of Serbia in the Balkans -- thus uniting the defensible parts of the Oikumene and keeping the Turks on the other side of the straits. 
        Give Stephen I another 8-10 years to consolidate.  Even after the brief reign of his son Stephen II Orosius, things have recovered
        enough for Lazarus I Turcoctonus to crush an Ottoman army at Mavrornithou, pushing the frontier back into Bithynia.  This, in turn,
        gives the Empire enough breathing space to take advantage of Tamerlane's invasion at the end of the century, making an alliance to
        push the Ottomans out of most of Asia Minor.  When Timur dies, Byzantium is the major beneficiary.

        (I take it on from here to WWI, with the British invasion at Gallipolis, and the revolution of 1918.  Byzantium would have been Hitler's
        particular bete noir, as completely non-racial state, so many of those tank battles would have been fought out in the flat parts of
        Romania and the Hungarian puszta, since Muscovy would in any case have been part of the Axis because Novgorod would have been
        on the Allied side.  The Cold War starts as a three-sided one, among Byzantium, the US and Novgorod.  As of last year, the Ottoman
        caliph Saddam, a US client based in Samarra, is threatening Byzantine client states Armenia and Eretz Israel with missile attacks . .
        .)



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      • st_prez
        SB: Glad you liked it. That Timur-i-Leng thing was just like an earthquake or a power surge -- no way to predict it, but it was the last time the Ottomans
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 11, 2004
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          SB:

          Glad you liked it. That Timur-i-Leng thing was just like an earthquake or a power surge -- no way to predict it, but it was the last time
          the Ottomans were vulnerable. I started wondering what it would have taken for the Empire to take advantage of it.

          Other great moments on this time line include the day during the Napoleonic Wars where the Byzantine fleet sails into the harbour of
          Venice, and -- after half a day of truly flatulent oratory destined to be memorized by school children in the Empire for the rest of the
          19th Century -- announce that they are _not_ going to sack and burn the city. (Some relics and ikons somehow go missing from San
          Marco, but hey, where were they before 1204?)

          --- In RomanByzantineAltHist@yahoogroups.com, Sebastian Brier <sebastianbrier@y...> wrote:
          > Hi St._Prez,
          >
          > I like that angle for althist.
          >
          > Sorry I haven't been active on here for a while; it'll probably be a while too before I can spend time on history. Got tons of stuff going
          on!
          >
          > I'll get back to writing my AH books sometime though. Until then...
          >
          > Sebastian Brier
          > www.ACFC-KS.org
          > www.MillionDadsMarch.org
          >
          > st_prez <st_prez@y...> wrote:
          > I'm new here, but I can't vote for any of them. You've missed mine, which is the death of John V in the plague and the retirement of
          > John VI to a monastery in favour of Stephen I Doutzianos. This puts the vestiges of the Empire together with the tentative
          beginnings
          > of Serbia in the Balkans -- thus uniting the defensible parts of the Oikumene and keeping the Turks on the other side of the straits.
          > Give Stephen I another 8-10 years to consolidate. Even after the brief reign of his son Stephen II Orosius, things have recovered
          > enough for Lazarus I Turcoctonus to crush an Ottoman army at Mavrornithou, pushing the frontier back into Bithynia. This, in turn,
          > gives the Empire enough breathing space to take advantage of Tamerlane's invasion at the end of the century, making an alliance to
          > push the Ottomans out of most of Asia Minor. When Timur dies, Byzantium is the major beneficiary.
          >
          > (I take it on from here to WWI, with the British invasion at Gallipolis, and the revolution of 1918. Byzantium would have been Hitler's
          > particular bete noir, as completely non-racial state, so many of those tank battles would have been fought out in the flat parts of
          > Romania and the Hungarian puszta, since Muscovy would in any case have been part of the Axis because Novgorod would have
          been
          > on the Allied side. The Cold War starts as a three-sided one, among Byzantium, the US and Novgorod. As of last year, the
          Ottoman
          > caliph Saddam, a US client based in Samarra, is threatening Byzantine client states Armenia and Eretz Israel with missile attacks .
          .
          > .)
          >
          >
          > Sebastian Brier
          >
          > Million Dads March.org
          > FIRMncp.com
          > www.TulsaFathers.org
          > www.MensNewsDaily.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
        • st_prez
          Another possibility is killing off Justinian in the first plague, and replacing him with someone who would make a deal with Totila to end the Italian wars.
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 13, 2004
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            Another possibility is killing off Justinian in the first plague, and replacing him with someone who would make a deal with Totila to end
            the Italian wars. The Byzantines (mostly) did not get the idea that a happy ally is worth more to the empire than a resentful subject. I
            haven't done much with this, mostly because it requires ripping up a lot more historical territory than the Stephen Dushan alternative.
            Turtledove's Byzantium with St. Mouamet, the Patron of Change, is very interesting, but it requires a lot of rethinking to project it into
            the 20th century or beyond.

            --- In RomanByzantineAltHist@yahoogroups.com, "st_prez" <st_prez@y...> wrote:
            > SB:
            >
            > Glad you liked it. That Timur-i-Leng thing was just like an earthquake or a power surge -- no way to predict it, but it was the last
            time
            > the Ottomans were vulnerable. I started wondering what it would have taken for the Empire to take advantage of it.
            >
            > Other great moments on this time line include the day during the Napoleonic Wars where the Byzantine fleet sails into the harbour
            of
            > Venice, and -- after half a day of truly flatulent oratory destined to be memorized by school children in the Empire for the rest of the
            > 19th Century -- announce that they are _not_ going to sack and burn the city. (Some relics and ikons somehow go missing from
            San
            > Marco, but hey, where were they before 1204?)
            >
            > --- In RomanByzantineAltHist@yahoogroups.com, Sebastian Brier <sebastianbrier@y...> wrote:
            > > Hi St._Prez,
            > >
            > > I like that angle for althist.
            > >
            > > Sorry I haven't been active on here for a while; it'll probably be a while too before I can spend time on history. Got tons of stuff
            going
            > on!
            > >
            > > I'll get back to writing my AH books sometime though. Until then...
            > >
            > > Sebastian Brier
            > > www.ACFC-KS.org
            > > www.MillionDadsMarch.org
            > >
            > > st_prez <st_prez@y...> wrote:
            > > I'm new here, but I can't vote for any of them. You've missed mine, which is the death of John V in the plague and the retirement
            of
            > > John VI to a monastery in favour of Stephen I Doutzianos. This puts the vestiges of the Empire together with the tentative
            > beginnings
            > > of Serbia in the Balkans -- thus uniting the defensible parts of the Oikumene and keeping the Turks on the other side of the
            straits.
            > > Give Stephen I another 8-10 years to consolidate. Even after the brief reign of his son Stephen II Orosius, things have recovered
            > > enough for Lazarus I Turcoctonus to crush an Ottoman army at Mavrornithou, pushing the frontier back into Bithynia. This, in
            turn,
            > > gives the Empire enough breathing space to take advantage of Tamerlane's invasion at the end of the century, making an alliance
            to
            > > push the Ottomans out of most of Asia Minor. When Timur dies, Byzantium is the major beneficiary.
            > >
            > > (I take it on from here to WWI, with the British invasion at Gallipolis, and the revolution of 1918. Byzantium would have been
            Hitler's
            > > particular bete noir, as completely non-racial state, so many of those tank battles would have been fought out in the flat parts of
            > > Romania and the Hungarian puszta, since Muscovy would in any case have been part of the Axis because Novgorod would have
            > been
            > > on the Allied side. The Cold War starts as a three-sided one, among Byzantium, the US and Novgorod. As of last year, the
            > Ottoman
            > > caliph Saddam, a US client based in Samarra, is threatening Byzantine client states Armenia and Eretz Israel with missile
            attacks .
            > .
            > > .)
            > >
            > >
            > > Sebastian Brier
            > >
            > > Million Dads March.org
            > > FIRMncp.com
            > > www.TulsaFathers.org
            > > www.MensNewsDaily.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Do you Yahoo!?
            > > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
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