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Re: Battery Tender

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  • chrismsnt@mindspring.com
    Tyler, Thanks for your marketing plug.. now onto the question which was posed... :-) I already HAVE the Battery Tender... can it be utilized on our RoboMower s
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 10, 2004
      Tyler,

      Thanks for your marketing plug.. now onto the question which was
      posed... :-)

      I already HAVE the Battery Tender... can it be utilized on our
      RoboMower's battery with the given specs?

      Chris

      --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, tysamigo@a... wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Chris,
      >
      > You can obtain an official Friendly Robotics Charger (brand new
      with
      > warranty) for half that price, for about $24.50 or the new models
      for $30 to $35.
      > We have all these in stock, along with other auth. service
      centers.
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      >
      > Best Regards,
      >
      > Tyler Ramage
      > Public Affairs
      > Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
      > Robo Direct Inc.
      > P: 502.742.ROBO
      > F: 502.968.9109
      > tyler@r...
      > _www.robodirect.com_ (http://www.robodirect.com)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 12/5/2004 6:42:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      > chrismsnt@m... writes:
      >
      >
      > I have this model:
      >
      > http://batterytender.com/product_info.php?products_id=2
      >
      > Do you think this can be put on our batteries? I used to use it
      for
      > me car. I'm not the least knowledgeable on volts and what not.
      So, I
      > don't know if this would work on the Robo battery. Thoughts?
      >
      > Chris
      > chrismsnt@m...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Best Regards,
      >
      > Tyler Ramage
      > Public Affairs
      > Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
      > Robo Direct Inc.
      > P: 502.742.ROBO
      > F: 502.968.9109
      > tyler@r...
      > www.robodirect.com
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • imowpete
      What is this $24 Friendly Robotics Charger and how is that different than the fast charger? I m only aware of the standard AC/DC transformer (which certainly
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 11, 2004
        What is this $24 Friendly Robotics Charger and how is that different
        than the fast charger? I'm only aware of the standard AC/DC
        transformer (which certainly isnt not a charger) and the very
        expensive standalone fast charger which costs more than $100.

        Anyway Chris since the RM battery is actually two separate 12V SLA
        batteries you would need two of these Battery Tenders or you would
        have to keep alternating which battery it was attached to.

        There is nothing special about the batteries that are used in the
        Robomowers - they are std off the shelf SLA batteries that can be
        acquired from a variety of sources so it follows that std off the
        shelf chargers designed to work with SLA batteries would work fine
        with them.

        --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, chrismsnt@m... wrote:
        >
        >
        > Tyler,
        >
        > Thanks for your marketing plug.. now onto the question which was
        > posed... :-)
        >
        > I already HAVE the Battery Tender... can it be utilized on our
        > RoboMower's battery with the given specs?
        >
        > Chris
        >
        > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, tysamigo@a... wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Chris,
        > >
        > > You can obtain an official Friendly Robotics Charger
        > > (brand new with warranty) for half that price, for about
        > > $24.50 or the new models for $30 to $35.
        > > We have all these in stock, along with other auth. service
        > > centers.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > In a message dated 12/5/2004 6:42:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
        > > chrismsnt@m... writes:
        > >
        > >
        > > I have this model:
        > >
        > > http://batterytender.com/product_info.php?products_id=2
        > >
        > > Do you think this can be put on our batteries? I used to use it
        > for
        > > me car. I'm not the least knowledgeable on volts and what not.
        > So, I
        > > don't know if this would work on the Robo battery. Thoughts?
        > >
        > > Chris
        > > chrismsnt@m...
      • tysamigo@aol.com
        Mr/Ms./Mrs. _Yahoo@321550.com_ (mailto:Yahoo@321550.com) , There are 3. The standard Power Supply is $24.50-$35. The Rapid Charger (external charging) for
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 11, 2004
          Mr/Ms./Mrs. _Yahoo@..._ (mailto:Yahoo@...) ,

          There are 3.

          The standard Power Supply is $24.50-$35.

          The Rapid Charger (external charging) for 2000-2004 is $99.95

          The Rapid Charger (new 2005 model, also external charging) for 2005 is
          $149.95.

          Thanks
          Tyler


          In a message dated 12/11/2004 4:18:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
          yahoo@... writes:

          What is this $24 Friendly Robotics Charger and how is that different
          than the fast charger? I'm only aware of the standard AC/DC
          transformer (which certainly isnt not a charger) and the very
          expensive standalone fast charger which costs more than $100.

          Anyway Chris since the RM battery is actually two separate 12V SLA
          batteries you would need two of these Battery Tenders or you would
          have to keep alternating which battery it was attached to.

          There is nothing special about the batteries that are used in the
          Robomowers - they are std off the shelf SLA batteries that can be
          acquired from a variety of sources so it follows that std off the
          shelf chargers designed to work with SLA batteries would work fine
          with them.





          Best Regards,

          Tyler Ramage
          Public Affairs
          Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
          Robo Direct Inc.
          P: 502.742.ROBO
          F: 502.968.9109
          tyler@...
          www.robodirect.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • tysamigo@aol.com
          Chris, It was not meant to be a marketing plug. I don t care where you get your charger, but if you can get an official and factory warrantied charger
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 12, 2004
            Chris,

            It was not meant to be a marketing plug. I don't care where you get your
            charger, but if you can get an "official" and "factory warrantied" charger that
            is meant for the product for LESS money than something that is not, then why
            would you buy anything else?

            At any rate, this will work but you will have to disconnected the cells from
            each other and charge them separately. The current should be higher than
            1.5A but it will work if you charge the cells separately...another yet
            disadvantage to this type of charging.

            Thanks
            Tyler




            In a message dated 12/11/2004 10:10:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,
            chrismsnt@... writes:

            Tyler,

            Thanks for your marketing plug.. now onto the question which was
            posed... :-)

            I already HAVE the Battery Tender... can it be utilized on our
            RoboMower's battery with the given specs?

            Chris




            Best Regards,

            Tyler Ramage
            Public Affairs
            Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
            Robo Direct Inc.
            P: 502.742.ROBO
            F: 502.968.9109
            tyler@...
            www.robodirect.com


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • beekilher
            Chris your voltage of charger and battery need to match. If you want an alternative to FR chargers do a GOOGLE search of 2409SR my search showed the Soneil
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 13, 2004
              Chris your voltage of charger and battery need to match. If you want
              an alternative to FR chargers do a GOOGLE search of "2409SR"
              my search showed the Soneil spec sheets (nice specs) plus 2-3 other
              sites that sell chargers. Call the seller for best amp rate to fit
              your needs. RM batteries are 24.0v (2-12v) 17ah 4amp max discharge
              rate at least mine dose. You will have to charge your battery
              directly and not though you're RM. Check Mobility chair and
              scooter forms to see what chargers they like. The one form I saw
              liked Soneil chargers. Soneil's home page:
              http://soneil.com/24v_chargers.htm
              --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, chrismsnt@m... wrote:
              >
              >
              > I have this model:
              >
              > http://batterytender.com/product_info.php?products_id=2
              >
              > Do you think this can be put on our batteries? I used to use it for
              > me car. I'm not the least knowledgeable on volts and what not. So,
              I
              > don't know if this would work on the Robo battery. Thoughts?
              >
              > Chris
              > chrismsnt@m...
            • imowpete
              That s twice you ve called the FR power supply a charger. It isnt a charger. As you previously indicated the FR chargers start at $100. You are comparing
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 13, 2004
                That's twice you've called the FR power supply a charger. It isnt a
                charger. As you previously indicated the FR chargers start at $100.
                You are comparing apples to oranges.

                --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, tysamigo@a... wrote:
                >
                > Chris,
                >
                > It was not meant to be a marketing plug. I don't care where
                > you get your charger, but if you can get an "official"
                > and "factory warrantied" charger that is meant for the
                > product for LESS money than something that is not, then why
                > would you buy anything else?

                AND

                >There are 3.
                >
                >The standard Power Supply is $24.50-$35.
                >
                >The Rapid Charger (external charging) for 2000-2004 is $99.95
                >
                >The Rapid Charger (new 2005 model, also external charging)
                >for 2005 is $149.95.
              • tysamigo@aol.com
                _Yahoo@321550.com_ (mailto:Yahoo@321550.com) , If you want to be technical on issues, the standard charger is a Power Supply and not a charger. The
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 13, 2004
                  _Yahoo@..._ (mailto:Yahoo@...) ,

                  If you want to be technical on issues, the "standard charger" is a Power Supply and not a charger. The "external chargers" are chargers. There is your clarification. From here on out I will attempt to call the charger a charger and call the power supply a power supply. I don't wish, however, to get caught up and point out people's mistakes by calling things by a "dubbed name".

                  Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

                  Thanks
                  Tyler

                  In a message dated 12/13/2004 2:32:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                  yahoo@... writes:


                  That's twice you've called the FR power supply a charger. It isnt a
                  charger. As you previously indicated the FR chargers start at $100.
                  You are comparing apples to oranges.




                  Best Regards,

                  Tyler Ramage
                  Public Affairs
                  Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
                  Robo Direct Inc.
                  P: 502.742.ROBO
                  F: 502.968.9109
                  tyler@...
                  www.robodirect.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • imowpete
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RoboMower/message/4906 TYLER: Yes, the batteries are standard. Yes chargers have been around for a long time however Robomower
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 13, 2004
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RoboMower/message/4906

                    "TYLER:
                    Yes, the batteries are standard. Yes chargers have been around for a
                    long time however Robomower does NOT use a charger. It uses a power
                    supply, a HUGE difference. "Chargers" have been known to damage
                    Robomowers, however if the proper Power Supply is used (and it does
                    NOT have to be an FR brand) then it can be done properly with no
                    damage."

                    Back in October you went out of your way to stress the difference
                    between a power supply and a charger. Yet now you seem to using the
                    two terms interchangably rather loosely and seem bothered that I am
                    pointing out that you are using them incorrectly.

                    What is even stranger to me is that the device that Chris posted the
                    link to that started this discussion is clearly a true charger and
                    your reply suggested that instead he consider the inexpensive FR
                    charger (which we have since determined is really a power supply) and
                    not at all comparable.


                    --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, tysamigo@a... wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _Yahoo@3..._ (mailto:Yahoo@3...) ,
                    >
                    > If you want to be technical on issues, the "standard charger" is a
                    Power Supply and not a charger. The "external chargers" are
                    chargers. There is your clarification. From here on out I will
                    attempt to call the charger a charger and call the power supply a
                    power supply. I don't wish, however, to get caught up and point out
                    people's mistakes by calling things by a "dubbed name".
                    >
                    > Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
                    >
                    > Thanks
                    > Tyler
                    >
                    > In a message dated 12/13/2004 2:32:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                    > yahoo@3... writes:
                    >
                    >
                    > That's twice you've called the FR power supply a charger. It isnt
                    a
                    > charger. As you previously indicated the FR chargers start at
                    $100.
                    > You are comparing apples to oranges.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Best Regards,
                    >
                    > Tyler Ramage
                    > Public Affairs
                    > Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
                    > Robo Direct Inc.
                    > P: 502.742.ROBO
                    > F: 502.968.9109
                    > tyler@r...
                    > www.robodirect.com
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Chris Weaver
                    Is this a charger I can use to keep a second battery charged or is this just the power supply for the internal charger? ... with ... for $30 to $35. ...
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 13, 2004
                      Is this a charger I can use to keep a second battery charged or is
                      this just the power supply for the internal charger?

                      --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, tysamigo@a... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Chris,
                      >
                      > You can obtain an official Friendly Robotics Charger (brand new
                      with
                      > warranty) for half that price, for about $24.50 or the new models
                      for $30 to $35.
                      > We have all these in stock, along with other auth. service
                      centers.
                      >
                      > Thanks
                      >
                      >
                      > Best Regards,
                      >
                      > Tyler Ramage
                      > Public Affairs
                      > Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
                      > Robo Direct Inc.
                      > P: 502.742.ROBO
                      > F: 502.968.9109
                      > tyler@r...
                      > _www.robodirect.com_ (http://www.robodirect.com)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > In a message dated 12/5/2004 6:42:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                      > chrismsnt@m... writes:
                      >
                      >
                      > I have this model:
                      >
                      > http://batterytender.com/product_info.php?products_id=2
                      >
                      > Do you think this can be put on our batteries? I used to use it
                      for
                      > me car. I'm not the least knowledgeable on volts and what not.
                      So, I
                      > don't know if this would work on the Robo battery. Thoughts?
                      >
                      > Chris
                      > chrismsnt@m...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Best Regards,
                      >
                      > Tyler Ramage
                      > Public Affairs
                      > Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
                      > Robo Direct Inc.
                      > P: 502.742.ROBO
                      > F: 502.968.9109
                      > tyler@r...
                      > www.robodirect.com
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • tysamigo@aol.com
                      Are you speaking of the battery tender or the official FR power supply? Tyler In a message dated 12/14/2004 9:47:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 14, 2004
                        Are you speaking of the battery tender or the official FR power supply?

                        Tyler


                        In a message dated 12/14/2004 9:47:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                        cweaver@... writes:

                        Is this a charger I can use to keep a second battery charged or is
                        this just the power supply for the internal charger?





                        Best Regards,

                        Tyler Ramage
                        Public Affairs
                        Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
                        Robo Direct Inc.
                        P: 502.742.ROBO
                        F: 502.968.9109
                        tyler@...
                        www.robodirect.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • tysamigo@aol.com
                        I explained all of this some time in Oct (date really unknown) between chargers and power supplies . The battery tender is a charger. For the most part,
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 14, 2004
                          I explained all of this some time in Oct (date really unknown) between
                          "chargers" and "power supplies".

                          The battery tender is a charger. For the most part, anything that charges
                          the batteries separately from the mower is a charger. For the most part,
                          anything that charges the batteries in the mower is a power supply.

                          If I made a "word mistake" then I apologize for any inconvenience.

                          Best Regards,

                          Tyler Ramage
                          Public Affairs
                          Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
                          Robo Direct Inc.
                          P: 502.742.ROBO
                          F: 502.968.9109
                          tyler@...
                          www.robodirect.com


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Chris Weaver
                          ... supply? ... How are you confused? I posted your quote in my question. Here it is ... with ... for $30 to $35. ... centers. From the other discussion in
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 14, 2004
                            I asked:
                            > In a message dated 12/14/2004 9:47:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                            > cweaver@y... writes:
                            >
                            > Is this a charger I can use to keep a second battery charged or is
                            > this just the power supply for the internal charger?

                            You replied:
                            --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, tysamigo@a... wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Are you speaking of the battery tender or the official FR power
                            supply?
                            >
                            > Tyler

                            How are you confused? I posted your quote in my question. Here it is
                            again, I am asking about the product you referred to here:

                            --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, tysamigo@a... wrote:
                            > Chris,
                            >
                            > You can obtain an official Friendly Robotics Charger (brand new
                            with
                            > warranty) for half that price, for about $24.50 or the new models
                            for $30 to $35.
                            > We have all these in stock, along with other auth. service
                            centers.

                            From the other discussion in this thread it seems that you are
                            saying this is just a power supply for the robot so it can use its
                            internal charger to recharge the battery.

                            I don't know why you are so defensive with the other guy. He was
                            asking about something he could use on the battery, not the mower.
                            You responded with a cheaper solution which, as I think I understand
                            now, isn't even functionally compatible with the product in his
                            question.

                            I will try my question once more in a manner that should be able to
                            stand alone with no other references:

                            Is there an official Friendly Robotics Charger (brand new with
                            warranty) for about $24.50 or the new models for $30 to $35 that I
                            can use to keep a second battery charged while the primary battery
                            is either being used or charged in the RM itself?
                            Or,
                            Is the official Friendly Robotics Charger (brand new with
                            warranty) for about $24.50 or the new models for $30 to $35 simply a
                            replacement for the power supply that came with the mower? If so
                            then I don't understand why anyone would need to purchase one unless
                            the original failed.

                            Thanks for explaining.
                          • tysamigo@aol.com
                            Cweaver (spelling?), You posted this: From the other discussion in this thread it seems that you are saying this is just a power supply for the robot so it
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 14, 2004
                              Cweaver (spelling?),

                              You posted this:

                              "From the other discussion in this thread it seems that you are
                              saying this is just a power supply for the robot so it can use its
                              internal charger to recharge the battery."

                              NO, I am not saying that at all. Again, what I am saying is that THIS
                              SPECIFIC device (The Battery Tender) that was the original topic IS NOT A POWER
                              SUPPLY, it is a CHARGER.

                              You could compare this product to the EXTERNAL RAPID CHARGER (either FR
                              version) in a sense HOWEVER it does not have the same output characteristics AND
                              it is not designed to charge 2 12V batteries in series. This Batter Tender
                              is basically an external charger that can be used IF the battery cells are
                              charged separately. I hope this is making sense. If not you are welcome to
                              phone me (toll free if necessary) and I can explain in great technical detail if
                              needed.

                              The Battery Tender will charge the RM batteries ONLY IF the batteries are
                              not connected in series inside the power pack. You must disconnect the
                              battery cells from each other and charge EACH CELL SEPARATELY. Even then by doing
                              this you may not obtain optimal performance from the battery due to the lower
                              current output rating from The Battery Tender, just make note of this.

                              Now to answer your question. You said:



                              QUESTION:
                              "Is there an official Friendly Robotics Charger (brand new with
                              warranty) for about $24.50 or the new models for $30 to $35 that I
                              can use to keep a second battery charged while the primary battery
                              is either being used or charged in the RM itself?"

                              ANSWER:
                              No, but there is for $99 or $149.

                              The next one:

                              QUESTION:
                              Is the official Friendly Robotics Charger (brand new with
                              warranty) for about $24.50 or the new models for $30 to $35 simply a
                              replacement for the power supply that came with the mower? If so
                              then I don't understand why anyone would need to purchase one unless
                              the original failed.

                              ANSWER:
                              For the most part yes, however only the RL1000 Green Model mowers are the
                              only mowers shipping with the new style charger. The difference is that the
                              NEW style charger is made for outdoor use and is WATERPROOF whereas ALL others
                              ARE NOT. The NEW model Power Supply is a replacement power supply however
                              this part has been "improved" for quality and longetivity and to resist weather
                              characteristics. So yes it is just the "basic robomower power supply"
                              however it is improved for quality purposes and is essentially a better power
                              supply by being waterproof and with other hardware improvements.

                              I must have misunderstood the original question because Branden, Sherry, and
                              Ben (all employees here) all thought the same thing as myself.

                              If you are asking if you can charge a Robomower battery SEPARATELY from the
                              mower and the product is approved by Friendly then YES you can but this
                              "CHARGER" (not a power supply) would cost either $99 or $149 depending on the
                              model.

                              I hope this clears up any confusion. Is there anything I left out?


                              Best Regards,

                              Tyler Ramage
                              Public Affairs
                              Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
                              Robo Direct Inc.
                              P: 502.742.ROBO
                              F: 502.968.9109
                              tyler@...
                              www.robodirect.com


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • imowpete
                              ... No, referring to Tyler s earlier message (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RoboMower/message/5661) the FR external (fast) chargers are $100 or $150 depending
                              Message 14 of 22 , Dec 14, 2004
                                --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Weaver" <cweaver@y...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I will try my question once more in a manner that should be able to
                                > stand alone with no other references:
                                >
                                > Is there an official Friendly Robotics Charger (brand new with
                                > warranty) for about $24.50 or the new models for $30 to $35 that I
                                > can use to keep a second battery charged while the primary battery
                                > is either being used or charged in the RM itself?

                                No, referring to Tyler's earlier message
                                (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RoboMower/message/5661) the FR
                                external (fast) chargers are $100 or $150 depending which model you
                                buy (pre 2005 versus 2005)

                                The inexpensive device that Tyler referred to as a charger is nothing
                                more than the transformer (power supply) that comes standard with
                                every RM. This cannot be used outside the RM as all of the charging
                                logic is built into the RM.


                                > Or,
                                > Is the official Friendly Robotics Charger (brand new with
                                > warranty) for about $24.50 or the new models for $30 to $35
                                > simply a replacement for the power supply that came with the mower?

                                Bingo - yes exactly.

                                > If so then I don't understand why anyone would need to purchase
                                > one unless the original failed.

                                I agree. You can't use more than one of them if you have only one RM
                                since they can't be used without the RM to charge a battery. Also if
                                your power supply went bad it would be replaced under warranty (at
                                least mine was) so I can't figure out why Tyler thought that
                                chrismsnt didn't already own one.

                                Must be a case of answering the question you thought someone meant
                                rather than answering the question they actually asked.
                              • tysamigo@aol.com
                                _Yahoo@321550_ (mailto:Yahoo@321550) , It would be nice if people who participated in the group would have a name, whether it is REAL or not. I believe it to
                                Message 15 of 22 , Dec 15, 2004
                                  _Yahoo@321550_ (mailto:Yahoo@321550) ,

                                  It would be nice if people who participated in the group would have a name,
                                  whether it is REAL or not. I believe it to be polite and well-mannered.
                                  This is not a complaint, but more like a request...??

                                  nontheless...

                                  You said:

                                  "Must be a case of answering the question you thought someone meant rather
                                  than answering the question they actually asked."

                                  Maybe it could be a case of misunderstanding the question...AGAIN 3 other
                                  techs here read the email and interpreted it the SAME as myself...coincidence?
                                  I'm not sure so I did what I felt was the right thing, took responsibility
                                  and apologized for any inconvenience. I thought this discussion was over with
                                  by now.

                                  You also said:

                                  "The inexpensive device that Tyler referred to as a charger is nothing more
                                  than the transformer (power supply) that comes standard with every RM. This
                                  cannot be used outside the RM as all of the charging logic is built into the
                                  RM."

                                  Unfortunately you are NOT fully correct. It has the same purpose but it is
                                  NOT the SAME power supply. It does NOT have the same part number. It is NOT
                                  built with the same quality transformer (new one is much better). It is
                                  also WATERPROOF which the other one is NOT. The more expensive power supply I
                                  quoted that we are referring to is NOT the idential power supply. It may
                                  have the same responsibility but it is NOT the same. It would be like comparing
                                  NiMH batteries to lead acid batteries. It's like saying that since both
                                  are "batteries" then they are the same when clearly they are not.

                                  BOTH OF THESE POWER SUPPLIES ARE PHYSICALLY NOT THE SAME, they do not cost
                                  the same, they do not have the same warranty, they do not have the same part
                                  number, they do not have the same extension (the outdoor is VERY long) and they
                                  both are not the same weather resitant. This is NOT the same power supply
                                  that ships with the mower, at all.

                                  And again, the other device...The Battery Tender, this CAN be used to charge
                                  RM batteries under the conditions I listed in the previous email. It CAN be
                                  done if one really wanted to. You could purchase 6 Battery Tenders and
                                  charge 6 12V cells at the same time (not wired in series).



                                  Best Regards,

                                  Tyler Ramage
                                  Public Affairs
                                  Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
                                  Robo Direct Inc.
                                  P: 502.742.ROBO
                                  F: 502.968.9109
                                  tyler@...
                                  www.robodirect.com


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Chris Weaver
                                  ... Got the questions answered in the end even though you started out by still answering questions directed to you about the product you recomended with
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Dec 15, 2004
                                    --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, tysamigo@a... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I hope this clears up any confusion. Is there anything I left out?

                                    Got the questions answered in the end even though you started out by
                                    still answering questions directed to you about the product you
                                    recomended with answers about the product the other guy asked about.

                                    Again, everything seems cleared up at the end except for the curious
                                    recommendation of a product that it seems no body needs to purchase
                                    (A second power supply)....

                                    Thanks
                                  • RoboticService
                                    I can t help but comment and say, WOW! What a long message for such a trivial thing as charger and a power supply. RS
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Dec 15, 2004
                                      I can't help but comment and say, WOW! What a long message
                                      for such a trivial thing as charger and a power supply.

                                      RS

                                      --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, tysamigo@a... wrote:
                                      > I hope this clears up any confusion. Is there anything I left
                                      > out?
                                    • imowpete
                                      ... rather ... other ... myself...coincidence? ... responsibility ... was over with ... The original question was: I have this model:
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Dec 16, 2004
                                        --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, tysamigo@a... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > You said:
                                        >
                                        > "Must be a case of answering the question you thought someone meant
                                        rather
                                        > than answering the question they actually asked."
                                        >
                                        > Maybe it could be a case of misunderstanding the question...AGAIN 3
                                        other
                                        > techs here read the email and interpreted it the SAME as
                                        myself...coincidence?
                                        > I'm not sure so I did what I felt was the right thing, took
                                        responsibility
                                        > and apologized for any inconvenience. I thought this discussion
                                        was over with
                                        > by now.

                                        The original question was:

                                        "I have this model:

                                        http://batterytender.com/product_info.php?products_id=2

                                        Do you think this can be put on our batteries? I used to use it for
                                        me car. I'm not the least knowledgeable on volts and what not. So, I
                                        don't know if this would work on the Robo battery. Thoughts?"

                                        How from that post you and the other techs with you interpreted that
                                        to mean anything than what was literally written is beyond me. How
                                        you further determined that the new FR power supply would be somehow
                                        related to this question and a good substitute for the battery tender
                                        is frankly unbelievable.

                                        > You also said:
                                        >
                                        > "The inexpensive device that Tyler referred to as a charger is
                                        nothing more
                                        > than the transformer (power supply) that comes standard with every
                                        RM. This
                                        > cannot be used outside the RM as all of the charging logic is
                                        built into the
                                        > RM."
                                        >
                                        > Unfortunately you are NOT fully correct. It has the same purpose
                                        but it is
                                        > NOT the SAME power supply. It does NOT have the same part
                                        number. It is NOT
                                        > built with the same quality transformer (new one is much
                                        better). It is
                                        > also WATERPROOF which the other one is NOT. The more expensive
                                        power supply I
                                        > quoted that we are referring to is NOT the idential power supply.
                                        It may
                                        > have the same responsibility but it is NOT the same. It would be
                                        like comparing
                                        > NiMH batteries to lead acid batteries. It's like saying that
                                        since both
                                        > are "batteries" then they are the same when clearly they are not.

                                        This is too funny. In the context of the question asked by the
                                        original poster the functionality of the device you suggested is not
                                        different from what he already had as an RM owner. The original
                                        poster did not ask for a weatherproof replacement for his power
                                        supply so for you to raise that as a justification now is
                                        ludicrous.

                                        As to the transformer being better - exactly how does this benefit
                                        anyone? Are you saying the original transformer supplied with other
                                        RM's are not up to the job? Are you saying that this new power
                                        supply will charge an RM battery better, faster, ?? It's a
                                        simple power supply that gets regulated by the RM; either it puts out
                                        sufficient volatge and current or it doesnt. Your NiMH vs lead acid
                                        analogy is poor as those are different technologies. They are both
                                        transformers, once has been made waterproof, whooopie!

                                        > BOTH OF THESE POWER SUPPLIES ARE PHYSICALLY NOT THE SAME, they do
                                        not cost
                                        > the same, they do not have the same warranty, they do not have the
                                        same part
                                        > number, they do not have the same extension (the outdoor is VERY
                                        long) and they
                                        > both are not the same weather resitant. This is NOT the same
                                        power supply
                                        > that ships with the mower, at all.

                                        That's all great but has ABSOULTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL
                                        POSTERS QUESTION.
                                      • beekilher
                                        Edited from message 5876 Tyler you said : The Battery Tender will charge the RM batteries ONLY IF the batteries are not connected in series inside the power
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Dec 16, 2004
                                          Edited from message 5876
                                          Tyler you said :
                                          "The Battery Tender will charge the RM batteries ONLY IF the
                                          batteries are not connected in series inside the power pack. You must
                                          disconnect the battery cells from each other and charge EACH CELL
                                          SEPARATELY. Even then by doing this you may not obtain optimal
                                          performance from the battery due to the lower current output rating
                                          from The Battery Tender, just make note of this."

                                          Here's the issue I have with this statement.
                                          No problem with charge each battery separately one 12v charger one
                                          12v battery. The problem is in the last part optimal performance. I
                                          went to the battery (my RM) manufactures home page and the BT Plus
                                          meets spec 14.5v max at 1.25amp-cc two 12v batt at 14.5v equals 29v
                                          meets RM specs. Lower current output??? What do you mean? The amp
                                          charging rate does not matter unless you exceed the amp rating of the
                                          batt which is not good (4amps). Just look at RM chargers 900ma?, 3amp-
                                          cc?,4amp-cc? I did the math to get RM amp rates no spec sheets for
                                          them. The speed at which the battery charges was never an issue only
                                          whether it would charge. I'm talking the 12v BT Plus charger
                                          only. RM
                                          chargers for comparison only. Go here as to why you should not do it.
                                          Click on FAQ also tech info.
                                          http://batterytender.com
                                        • tysamigo@aol.com
                                          Unknown user, That s nice and I just knew that someone might bring this up. BEFORE I sent the email I confirmed my theory with Friendly Robotics in Israel
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Dec 17, 2004
                                            Unknown user,

                                            That's nice and I just knew that someone might bring this up. BEFORE I sent
                                            the email I confirmed my theory with Friendly Robotics in Israel and
                                            specifically the R&D Department. I phoned them at 5am (1pm their local time) and
                                            spoke with 2 separate R&D folks.

                                            They said that I am correct however (due to VERY technical information about
                                            the robots "charging board (a specific RM part) that I must say:

                                            "MAY NOT OBTAIN OPTIMAL PERFORMANCE..."

                                            May I suggest if you feel to further investigate this statement that you
                                            contact Friendly Robotics Research and Development Department in Israel.

                                            ANYONE there that you speak with WILL know me by first name. You won't have
                                            to give to much background as to WHO said this.

                                            Thanks
                                            Tyler





                                            In a message dated 12/17/2004 10:04:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                                            spamlesskb-contests0204@... writes:

                                            Edited from message 5876
                                            Tyler you said :
                                            "The Battery Tender will charge the RM batteries ONLY IF the
                                            batteries are not connected in series inside the power pack. You must
                                            disconnect the battery cells from each other and charge EACH CELL
                                            SEPARATELY. Even then by doing this you may not obtain optimal
                                            performance from the battery due to the lower current output rating
                                            from The Battery Tender, just make note of this."

                                            Here's the issue I have with this statement.
                                            No problem with charge each battery separately one 12v charger one
                                            12v battery. The problem is in the last part optimal performance. I
                                            went to the battery (my RM) manufactures home page and the BT Plus
                                            meets spec 14.5v max at 1.25amp-cc two 12v batt at 14.5v equals 29v
                                            meets RM specs. Lower current output??? What do you mean? The amp
                                            charging rate does not matter unless you exceed the amp rating of the
                                            batt which is not good (4amps). Just look at RM chargers 900ma?, 3amp-
                                            cc?,4amp-cc? I did the math to get RM amp rates no spec sheets for
                                            them. The speed at which the battery charges was never an issue only
                                            whether it would charge. I'm talking the 12v BT Plus charger
                                            only. RM
                                            chargers for comparison only. Go here as to why you should not do it.
                                            Click on FAQ also tech info.
                                            http://batterytender.com




                                            Best Regards,

                                            Tyler Ramage
                                            Public Affairs
                                            Customer/Dealer Support Mgr.
                                            Robo Direct Inc.
                                            P: 502.742.ROBO
                                            F: 502.968.9109
                                            tyler@...
                                            www.robodirect.com


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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