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RE: [RoboMower] Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From Digikey

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  • Dan Barclay
    Rats. Things must have changed. Details when you get time, and let s get Danny in the loop. I had very good performance from the bats I ordered last year,
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 8, 2009
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      Rats. Things must have changed.



      Details when you get time, and let's get Danny in the loop. I had very good
      performance from the bats I ordered last year, but we kind of did it as a
      group. I also didn't require any followup so I wouldn't know about them
      having to stand behind something that was a problem since I didn't have a
      problem.



      We may need to get Danny to tweak them by reminding them we're talking as a
      group and tend to order in a herd mentality<g>. If one isn't taken care of
      we all get ticked. Numbers count!



      Dan







      From: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Bob and Barbara
      Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 5:43 PM
      To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [RoboMower] Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From Digikey








      If you need new batteries, hold off until I repost more about them. They DO
      NOT stand behind what they sell!!! Period!

      Bob

      __



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bob and Barbara
      Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at the recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each. They were giving me 3 1/2-4
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 8, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at the recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
        They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both Robomowers.

        Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins on one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
        Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
        I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days and fully charged before using them

        When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer Service, was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find the right guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long distance phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for them. I then asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically I got handed off to BB.
        So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?

        I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you know.

        Bob




        --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Matt Cooper <mattcoop2@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Bob, Sorry to hear that!
        >
        >
        > --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@...> wrote:
        >
        > > From: Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@...>
        > > Subject: [RoboMower] Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From Digikey
        > > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 5:43 PM
        > > If you need new batteries, hold off until I repost more
        > > about them. They DO NOT stand behind what they sell!!!
        > > Period!
        > >
        > > Bob
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Scott B
        Gee Bob, Why don t you tell us what is really bothering you? -s ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 8, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Gee Bob,

          Why don't you tell us what is really bothering you?

          -s

          On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@...>wrote:

          >
          >
          > Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at the
          > recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
          > They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both
          > Robomowers.
          >
          > Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins on
          > one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
          > Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our
          > house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
          > I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days and
          > fully charged before using them
          >
          > When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer Service,
          > was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find the right
          > guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long distance
          > phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for them. I then
          > asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically I got handed
          > off to BB.
          > So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?
          >
          > I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you know.
          >
          > Bob
          >
          > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com>, Matt
          > Cooper <mattcoop2@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Bob, Sorry to hear that!
          > >
          > >
          > > --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > > From: Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@...>
          > > > Subject: [RoboMower] Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From
          > Digikey
          > > > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com>
          > > > Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 5:43 PM
          > > > If you need new batteries, hold off until I repost more
          > > > about them. They DO NOT stand behind what they sell!!!
          > > > Period!
          > > >
          > > > Bob
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------------------
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Danny Miller
          Dude, plz do not piss off Digikey unnecessarily. They were a little apprehensive about carrying EB20-12 before, because it wasn t a highly requested item yet.
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 8, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Dude, plz do not piss off Digikey unnecessarily. They were a little
            apprehensive about carrying EB20-12 before, because it wasn't a highly
            requested item yet. They only sell a few but they give us the best
            price anywhere. If you go in there yelling, it may make it higher on
            their list of products to axe to cut costs.

            Actually I was recommending EB20-12, not BP20-12. I'm not sure about
            the BP type. That's more of a general-purpose.

            What temperature was it outside when you were running them?

            What warranty was stated?

            I know you're pissed at the moment but ALL lead-acid is somewhat dicey
            in this duty. They're also expensive to mfg and ship. They don't make
            all that much on them.

            For that matter, it's difficult to really work with warranties because
            there's so much an operator could do to abuse them, and what constitutes
            "failed". I mean by some standards, it has 12v on the terminals and
            runs for almost 2 hrs, that's still "working". I'd be surprised if
            Digikey made the call on this because it's a rather complex technical
            issue. Handing you off to BB is a little unusual but given the
            technical nature I'd say it's logical.

            Actually one thing does come to mind, I don't know how plausible it is.
            There is a case for electrolyte stratification, where it "settles out"
            at the bottom. Since it's a gel this really shouldn't happen in
            theory. Well that or maybe any number of technical reasons MIGHT have
            caused some plate inactivation, and it MAY be recoverable. There are
            conditions which can cause slow plates. In fact the mfg data shows it
            actually gains around 15% capacity in the first dozens of cycles after
            it's made. There may be a case where the plates just need some exercise.

            In fact, I KNOW storage sulfation does cause high cell impedance- but
            it's generally recoverable. Sulfation shouldn't be very high since they
            were charged, but it might not take much to spoil the moderately high
            rate deep discharge capability.

            I would not actually come to any conclusions on the first cycle after a
            long storage. I'd give it 3 cycles and see if capacity is increasing.

            Danny

            Bob and Barbara wrote:
            > Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at the recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
            > They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both Robomowers.
            >
            > Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins on one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
            > Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
            > I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days and fully charged before using them
            >
            > When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer Service, was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find the right guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long distance phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for them. I then asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically I got handed off to BB.
            > So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?
            >
            > I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you know.
            >
            > Bob
            >
            >
          • Bob and Barbara
            And just What do you mean by that?
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 8, 2009
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              And just What do you mean by that?


              --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Scott B <scott@...> wrote:
              >
              > Gee Bob,
              >
              > Why don't you tell us what is really bothering you?
              >
              > -s
              >
              > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@...>wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at the
              > > recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
              > > They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both
              > > Robomowers.
              > >
              > > Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins on
              > > one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
              > > Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our
              > > house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
              > > I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days and
              > > fully charged before using them
              > >
              > > When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer Service,
              > > was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find the right
              > > guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long distance
              > > phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for them. I then
              > > asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically I got handed
              > > off to BB.
              > > So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?
              > >
              > > I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you know.
              > >
              > > Bob
              > >
              > > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com>, Matt
              > > Cooper <mattcoop2@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Bob, Sorry to hear that!
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > From: Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@>
              > > > > Subject: [RoboMower] Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From
              > > Digikey
              > > > > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > > > Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 5:43 PM
              > > > > If you need new batteries, hold off until I repost more
              > > > > about them. They DO NOT stand behind what they sell!!!
              > > > > Period!
              > > > >
              > > > > Bob
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ------------------------------------
              > > > >
              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Ben Sporl
              Let me know what you find out. I m about to buy 4 batteries ($248, more than the Woot-Mower) and I m not interested in having them die after 1 year.
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 8, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Let me know what you find out. I'm about to buy 4 batteries ($248, more than the Woot-Mower) and I'm not interested in having them die after 1 year.




                ________________________________
                From: Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@...>
                To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:28:15 PM
                Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From Digikey





                Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at the recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
                They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both Robomowers.

                Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins on one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
                Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
                I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days and fully charged before using them

                When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer Service, was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find the right guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long distance phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for them. I then asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically I got handed off to BB.
                So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?

                I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you know.

                Bob

                --- In RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com, Matt Cooper <mattcoop2@. ..> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Bob, Sorry to hear that!
                >
                >
                > --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > > From: Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@ ...>
                > > Subject: [RoboMower] Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From Digikey
                > > To: RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com
                > > Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 5:43 PM
                > > If you need new batteries, hold off until I repost more
                > > about them. They DO NOT stand behind what they sell!!!
                > > Period!
                > >
                > > Bob
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Austin Morgan
                Bob, Don t give up hope. I am a long time Digikey client both for personal and business needs and have always received stand-up service. For instance last year
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 8, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Bob,
                  Don't give up hope. I am a long time Digikey client both for personal and
                  business needs and have always received stand-up service. For instance last
                  year I replaced my batteries with EP20-12s from Digikey after 2 years of the
                  batteries from Friendly failing me. When I they came in the first time I put
                  them on the charger one of the swelled like a tick. Digikey sent a
                  replacement no problem paying for all shipping cost. I would give you the
                  name of my contact there, but unfortunately he recently left for another
                  position and I haven't replaced him yet.
                  I have noticed that they aren't sure what to do with batteries. I have a
                  feeling you got left in limbo because it isn't on their main service list
                  and weren't sure what to do with you. When you get in this position with
                  this particular company generally speaking they are happy to escalate you if
                  you ask, unfortunately you have to ask. I wish you luck and good mowing.

                  Austin

                  ----------------original message-----------------
                  From: "Bob and Barbara" eventtravelers@...
                  To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 00:28:15 -0000
                  -------------------------------------------------


                  > Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at the
                  > recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
                  > They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both
                  Robomowers.
                  >
                  > Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins on
                  one and 1
                  > hour 1 55 mins on the other.
                  > Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our
                  house,(heated)
                  > and topped off a couple times.
                  > I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days and
                  fully
                  > charged before using them
                  >
                  > When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer
                  Service, was
                  > put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find the right guy.
                  Then she
                  > came back to me and said I needed to call a long distance phone #. When I
                  asked about
                  > an 800# she said they had none for them. I then asked Whose # was it? Was
                  Told BB
                  > battery in Calif. Basically I got handed off to BB.
                  > So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?
                  >
                  > I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you know.
                  >
                  > Bob
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Matt Cooper mattcoop2@... wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Bob, Sorry to hear that!
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Bob and Barbara eventtravelers@... wrote:
                  >>
                  >> > From: Bob and Barbara eventtravelers@...
                  >> > Subject: [RoboMower] Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From
                  >> Digikey
                  >> > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
                  >> > Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 5:43 PM
                  >> > If you need new batteries, hold off until I repost more
                  >> > about them. They DO NOT stand behind what they sell!!!
                  >> > Period!
                  >> >
                  >> > Bob
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > ------------------------------------
                  >> >
                  >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Bob and Barbara
                  Danny, First off I m not a Dude I m Bob. Ok? I do not intend to piss off Digikey. After being a business owner of several large companys for 30+ years, I
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 8, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Danny, First off I'm not a "Dude" I'm Bob. Ok?

                    I do not intend to piss off Digikey. After being a business owner of several large companys for 30+ years, I know how to diplomatically handle different situations.
                    I have already talked to them again and they are looking into it. They too agreed, I should not have been just handed off to BB.
                    But the guy in Warrantee Dept. that didn't have the b*lls to talk to me on the phone told the gal in CS dept I needed to call BB.
                    Come to find out he noted in their system he talked to me and that my batteries were over a year and half old so he rejected the replacment claim.
                    Bought May 2008 is less than a year.

                    Seems that BB battery warrantee is for 12 months from the date that BB ships the batteries out.
                    http://www.bb-battery.com/limited_warranty.asp
                    So in other words BB ships a battery to Digikey, takes a couple weeks in transit, Digikey has them on a shelf a month, couple months or whatever. Then Digikey ships to you. You get the picture?

                    They recommended the BP20-12 as the best they had for Robos. I know you recommended the EB20-12 but that was after I ordered and long before they even had the EB20s in stock.

                    The temperature was 58 degrees today when I was running them.

                    Warranty is 12 months... But see above.

                    Everything else you have written here, I have been in a long conversation with the Technician at BB. I am going to do some tests for him. Also cycle them several times and let him know my findings

                    Honestly.. How would you feel, not knowing batteries and spent $300, less than a year ago and experienced all this?

                    Bob



                    --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Danny Miller <dannym@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dude, plz do not piss off Digikey unnecessarily. They were a little
                    > apprehensive about carrying EB20-12 before, because it wasn't a highly
                    > requested item yet. They only sell a few but they give us the best
                    > price anywhere. If you go in there yelling, it may make it higher on
                    > their list of products to axe to cut costs.
                    >
                    > Actually I was recommending EB20-12, not BP20-12. I'm not sure about
                    > the BP type. That's more of a general-purpose.
                    >
                    > What temperature was it outside when you were running them?
                    >
                    > What warranty was stated?
                    >
                    > I know you're pissed at the moment but ALL lead-acid is somewhat dicey
                    > in this duty. They're also expensive to mfg and ship. They don't make
                    > all that much on them.
                    >
                    > For that matter, it's difficult to really work with warranties because
                    > there's so much an operator could do to abuse them, and what constitutes
                    > "failed". I mean by some standards, it has 12v on the terminals and
                    > runs for almost 2 hrs, that's still "working". I'd be surprised if
                    > Digikey made the call on this because it's a rather complex technical
                    > issue. Handing you off to BB is a little unusual but given the
                    > technical nature I'd say it's logical.
                    >
                    > Actually one thing does come to mind, I don't know how plausible it is.
                    > There is a case for electrolyte stratification, where it "settles out"
                    > at the bottom. Since it's a gel this really shouldn't happen in
                    > theory. Well that or maybe any number of technical reasons MIGHT have
                    > caused some plate inactivation, and it MAY be recoverable. There are
                    > conditions which can cause slow plates. In fact the mfg data shows it
                    > actually gains around 15% capacity in the first dozens of cycles after
                    > it's made. There may be a case where the plates just need some exercise.
                    >
                    > In fact, I KNOW storage sulfation does cause high cell impedance- but
                    > it's generally recoverable. Sulfation shouldn't be very high since they
                    > were charged, but it might not take much to spoil the moderately high
                    > rate deep discharge capability.
                    >
                    > I would not actually come to any conclusions on the first cycle after a
                    > long storage. I'd give it 3 cycles and see if capacity is increasing.
                    >
                    > Danny
                    >
                    > Bob and Barbara wrote:
                    > > Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at the recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
                    > > They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both Robomowers.
                    > >
                    > > Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins on one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
                    > > Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
                    > > I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days and fully charged before using them
                    > >
                    > > When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer Service, was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find the right guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long distance phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for them. I then asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically I got handed off to BB.
                    > > So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?
                    > >
                    > > I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you know.
                    > >
                    > > Bob
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Dan Barclay
                    FWIW, one of my RL1000 s finished a mowing cycle this evening. I went out and checked the runtime: 3:50 on EB20 s that I bought last year. I ve been mowing
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 8, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      FWIW, one of my RL1000's finished a mowing cycle this evening. I went out
                      and checked the runtime: 3:50 on EB20's that I bought last year.



                      I've been mowing for weeks now.



                      Dan



                      _____

                      From: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of Bob and Barbara
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 9:37 PM
                      To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From
                      Digikey








                      Danny, First off I'm not a "Dude" I'm Bob. Ok?

                      I do not intend to piss off Digikey. After being a business owner of several
                      large companys for 30+ years, I know how to diplomatically handle different
                      situations.
                      I have already talked to them again and they are looking into it. They too
                      agreed, I should not have been just handed off to BB.
                      But the guy in Warrantee Dept. that didn't have the b*lls to talk to me on
                      the phone told the gal in CS dept I needed to call BB.
                      Come to find out he noted in their system he talked to me and that my
                      batteries were over a year and half old so he rejected the replacment claim.
                      Bought May 2008 is less than a year.

                      Seems that BB battery warrantee is for 12 months from the date that BB ships
                      the batteries out.
                      http://www.bb- <http://www.bb-battery.com/limited_warranty.asp>
                      battery.com/limited_warranty.asp
                      So in other words BB ships a battery to Digikey, takes a couple weeks in
                      transit, Digikey has them on a shelf a month, couple months or whatever.
                      Then Digikey ships to you. You get the picture?

                      They recommended the BP20-12 as the best they had for Robos. I know you
                      recommended the EB20-12 but that was after I ordered and long before they
                      even had the EB20s in stock.

                      The temperature was 58 degrees today when I was running them.

                      Warranty is 12 months... But see above.

                      Everything else you have written here, I have been in a long conversation
                      with the Technician at BB. I am going to do some tests for him. Also cycle
                      them several times and let him know my findings

                      Honestly.. How would you feel, not knowing batteries and spent $300, less
                      than a year ago and experienced all this?

                      Bob

                      --- In RoboMower@yahoogrou <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,
                      Danny Miller <dannym@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Dude, plz do not piss off Digikey unnecessarily. They were a little
                      > apprehensive about carrying EB20-12 before, because it wasn't a highly
                      > requested item yet. They only sell a few but they give us the best
                      > price anywhere. If you go in there yelling, it may make it higher on
                      > their list of products to axe to cut costs.
                      >
                      > Actually I was recommending EB20-12, not BP20-12. I'm not sure about
                      > the BP type. That's more of a general-purpose.
                      >
                      > What temperature was it outside when you were running them?
                      >
                      > What warranty was stated?
                      >
                      > I know you're pissed at the moment but ALL lead-acid is somewhat dicey
                      > in this duty. They're also expensive to mfg and ship. They don't make
                      > all that much on them.
                      >
                      > For that matter, it's difficult to really work with warranties because
                      > there's so much an operator could do to abuse them, and what constitutes
                      > "failed". I mean by some standards, it has 12v on the terminals and
                      > runs for almost 2 hrs, that's still "working". I'd be surprised if
                      > Digikey made the call on this because it's a rather complex technical
                      > issue. Handing you off to BB is a little unusual but given the
                      > technical nature I'd say it's logical.
                      >
                      > Actually one thing does come to mind, I don't know how plausible it is.
                      > There is a case for electrolyte stratification, where it "settles out"
                      > at the bottom. Since it's a gel this really shouldn't happen in
                      > theory. Well that or maybe any number of technical reasons MIGHT have
                      > caused some plate inactivation, and it MAY be recoverable. There are
                      > conditions which can cause slow plates. In fact the mfg data shows it
                      > actually gains around 15% capacity in the first dozens of cycles after
                      > it's made. There may be a case where the plates just need some exercise.
                      >
                      > In fact, I KNOW storage sulfation does cause high cell impedance- but
                      > it's generally recoverable. Sulfation shouldn't be very high since they
                      > were charged, but it might not take much to spoil the moderately high
                      > rate deep discharge capability.
                      >
                      > I would not actually come to any conclusions on the first cycle after a
                      > long storage. I'd give it 3 cycles and see if capacity is increasing.
                      >
                      > Danny
                      >
                      > Bob and Barbara wrote:
                      > > Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at the
                      recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
                      > > They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both
                      Robomowers.
                      > >
                      > > Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins on
                      one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
                      > > Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our
                      house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
                      > > I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days and
                      fully charged before using them
                      > >
                      > > When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer
                      Service, was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find the
                      right guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long
                      distance phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for
                      them. I then asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically I
                      got handed off to BB.
                      > > So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?
                      > >
                      > > I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you
                      know.
                      > >
                      > > Bob
                      > >
                      > >
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • dannym@austin.rr.com
                      I m with you there. $300 is a lot. As far as dealers go, I bet you could call up most any place on the web and they d sell you a GP battery. And most of us
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 8, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I'm with you there. $300 is a lot.

                        As far as dealers go, I bet you could call up most any place on the web and they'd sell you a GP battery. And most of us have seen pitiful life expectancies out of the GP product line of one vendor or another in Robomower service. There are not a lot who understand the differences and it's kinda unlikely to find such an expert on any vendor site. In fact, if you call a Robomower dealer, you might get a GP or a "sort of" GP. I don't know if any have caught on to the EB.

                        It's just that this would affect my expectations in 2 ways: one, they're not going to be able to give a REALLY well informed recommendation on the battery type. Two, they're not qualified to diagnose these claims of capacity loss being a warranty return. And this would be a major expensive return for them, not a $3 transistor, the profit margin is relatively low. So actually I'm not entirely surprised they referred you over to the mfg. BB's sure being nice that they accepted the referral though. BB has been real nice and informative in all my communications with them.

                        Also the warranty-from-date-of-mfg may not be all that unusual. Lead acid mfgs cannot warranty batteries which have been shelved because we know they have a limited shelf life. I know how much it sucks to get caught right "on the line" like that though.

                        If BB says replace under warranty, I'd definitely work Digikey to accept some additional $ for the upgrade to EB20-12 instead of getting more BP20-12. That could work out sweet for you if you can pull it off but you'd be pretty lucky to talk them into applying the warranty.

                        Danny

                        ---- Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@...> wrote:
                        > Danny, First off I'm not a "Dude" I'm Bob. Ok?
                        >
                        > I do not intend to piss off Digikey. After being a business owner of several large companys for 30+ years, I know how to diplomatically handle different situations.
                        > I have already talked to them again and they are looking into it. They too agreed, I should not have been just handed off to BB.
                        > But the guy in Warrantee Dept. that didn't have the b*lls to talk to me on the phone told the gal in CS dept I needed to call BB.
                        > Come to find out he noted in their system he talked to me and that my batteries were over a year and half old so he rejected the replacment claim.
                        > Bought May 2008 is less than a year.
                        >
                        > Seems that BB battery warrantee is for 12 months from the date that BB ships the batteries out.
                        > http://www.bb-battery.com/limited_warranty.asp
                        > So in other words BB ships a battery to Digikey, takes a couple weeks in transit, Digikey has them on a shelf a month, couple months or whatever. Then Digikey ships to you. You get the picture?
                        >
                        > They recommended the BP20-12 as the best they had for Robos. I know you recommended the EB20-12 but that was after I ordered and long before they even had the EB20s in stock.
                        >
                        > The temperature was 58 degrees today when I was running them.
                        >
                        > Warranty is 12 months... But see above.
                        >
                        > Everything else you have written here, I have been in a long conversation with the Technician at BB. I am going to do some tests for him. Also cycle them several times and let him know my findings
                        >
                        > Honestly.. How would you feel, not knowing batteries and spent $300, less than a year ago and experienced all this?
                        >
                        > Bob
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Danny Miller <dannym@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Dude, plz do not piss off Digikey unnecessarily. They were a little
                        > > apprehensive about carrying EB20-12 before, because it wasn't a highly
                        > > requested item yet. They only sell a few but they give us the best
                        > > price anywhere. If you go in there yelling, it may make it higher on
                        > > their list of products to axe to cut costs.
                        > >
                        > > Actually I was recommending EB20-12, not BP20-12. I'm not sure about
                        > > the BP type. That's more of a general-purpose.
                        > >
                        > > What temperature was it outside when you were running them?
                        > >
                        > > What warranty was stated?
                        > >
                        > > I know you're pissed at the moment but ALL lead-acid is somewhat dicey
                        > > in this duty. They're also expensive to mfg and ship. They don't make
                        > > all that much on them.
                        > >
                        > > For that matter, it's difficult to really work with warranties because
                        > > there's so much an operator could do to abuse them, and what constitutes
                        > > "failed". I mean by some standards, it has 12v on the terminals and
                        > > runs for almost 2 hrs, that's still "working". I'd be surprised if
                        > > Digikey made the call on this because it's a rather complex technical
                        > > issue. Handing you off to BB is a little unusual but given the
                        > > technical nature I'd say it's logical.
                        > >
                        > > Actually one thing does come to mind, I don't know how plausible it is.
                        > > There is a case for electrolyte stratification, where it "settles out"
                        > > at the bottom. Since it's a gel this really shouldn't happen in
                        > > theory. Well that or maybe any number of technical reasons MIGHT have
                        > > caused some plate inactivation, and it MAY be recoverable. There are
                        > > conditions which can cause slow plates. In fact the mfg data shows it
                        > > actually gains around 15% capacity in the first dozens of cycles after
                        > > it's made. There may be a case where the plates just need some exercise.
                        > >
                        > > In fact, I KNOW storage sulfation does cause high cell impedance- but
                        > > it's generally recoverable. Sulfation shouldn't be very high since they
                        > > were charged, but it might not take much to spoil the moderately high
                        > > rate deep discharge capability.
                        > >
                        > > I would not actually come to any conclusions on the first cycle after a
                        > > long storage. I'd give it 3 cycles and see if capacity is increasing.
                        > >
                        > > Danny
                        > >
                        > > Bob and Barbara wrote:
                        > > > Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at the recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
                        > > > They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both Robomowers.
                        > > >
                        > > > Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins on one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
                        > > > Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
                        > > > I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days and fully charged before using them
                        > > >
                        > > > When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer Service, was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find the right guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long distance phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for them. I then asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically I got handed off to BB.
                        > > > So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?
                        > > >
                        > > > I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you know.
                        > > >
                        > > > Bob
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Bob and Barbara
                        Ben, Ok I will... They are supposed to get back to me either today or tomorrow on this. I m talking about Managers now as I had 3 of them on the phone
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 9, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Ben, Ok I will... They are supposed to get back to me either today or tomorrow on this. I'm talking about Managers now as I had 3 of them on the phone (conference) last night.

                          Bob


                          --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Ben Sporl <bsporl@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Let me know what you find out. I'm about to buy 4 batteries ($248, more than the Woot-Mower) and I'm not interested in having them die after 1 year.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@...>
                          > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:28:15 PM
                          > Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From Digikey
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at the recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
                          > They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both Robomowers.
                          >
                          > Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins on one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
                          > Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
                          > I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days and fully charged before using them
                          >
                          > When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer Service, was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find the right guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long distance phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for them. I then asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically I got handed off to BB.
                          > So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?
                          >
                          > I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you know.
                          >
                          > Bob
                          >
                          > --- In RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com, Matt Cooper <mattcoop2@ ..> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Bob, Sorry to hear that!
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@ ...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > From: Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@ ...>
                          > > > Subject: [RoboMower] Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From Digikey
                          > > > To: RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com
                          > > > Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 5:43 PM
                          > > > If you need new batteries, hold off until I repost more
                          > > > about them. They DO NOT stand behind what they sell!!!
                          > > > Period!
                          > > >
                          > > > Bob
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                          > > >
                          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Bob and Barbara
                          Dan, That s what I would expect out of new batteries especially Top of the line and expensive($60+) ones. Give me atleast 2 mowing seasons. The original
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 9, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dan, That's what I would expect out of new batteries especially Top of the line and expensive($60+) ones. Give me atleast 2 mowing seasons.
                            The original Yuashas(sp) 17A and 18A from both new RL1000s lasted from spring 2005 to spring 2008. I still have 2 of those cells as a back up pack that still give a 2 hour run time.

                            And I have done nothing different with these new BB cells than those. Usage and storage. So go figure.


                            Bob



                            --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Barclay" <Dan@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > FWIW, one of my RL1000's finished a mowing cycle this evening. I went out
                            > and checked the runtime: 3:50 on EB20's that I bought last year.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I've been mowing for weeks now.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Dan
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > _____
                            >
                            > From: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            > Of Bob and Barbara
                            > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 9:37 PM
                            > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From
                            > Digikey
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Danny, First off I'm not a "Dude" I'm Bob. Ok?
                            >
                            > I do not intend to piss off Digikey. After being a business owner of several
                            > large companys for 30+ years, I know how to diplomatically handle different
                            > situations.
                            > I have already talked to them again and they are looking into it. They too
                            > agreed, I should not have been just handed off to BB.
                            > But the guy in Warrantee Dept. that didn't have the b*lls to talk to me on
                            > the phone told the gal in CS dept I needed to call BB.
                            > Come to find out he noted in their system he talked to me and that my
                            > batteries were over a year and half old so he rejected the replacment claim.
                            > Bought May 2008 is less than a year.
                            >
                            > Seems that BB battery warrantee is for 12 months from the date that BB ships
                            > the batteries out.
                            > http://www.bb- <http://www.bb-battery.com/limited_warranty.asp>
                            > battery.com/limited_warranty.asp
                            > So in other words BB ships a battery to Digikey, takes a couple weeks in
                            > transit, Digikey has them on a shelf a month, couple months or whatever.
                            > Then Digikey ships to you. You get the picture?
                            >
                            > They recommended the BP20-12 as the best they had for Robos. I know you
                            > recommended the EB20-12 but that was after I ordered and long before they
                            > even had the EB20s in stock.
                            >
                            > The temperature was 58 degrees today when I was running them.
                            >
                            > Warranty is 12 months... But see above.
                            >
                            > Everything else you have written here, I have been in a long conversation
                            > with the Technician at BB. I am going to do some tests for him. Also cycle
                            > them several times and let him know my findings
                            >
                            > Honestly.. How would you feel, not knowing batteries and spent $300, less
                            > than a year ago and experienced all this?
                            >
                            > Bob
                            >
                            > --- In RoboMower@yahoogrou <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,
                            > Danny Miller <dannym@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Dude, plz do not piss off Digikey unnecessarily. They were a little
                            > > apprehensive about carrying EB20-12 before, because it wasn't a highly
                            > > requested item yet. They only sell a few but they give us the best
                            > > price anywhere. If you go in there yelling, it may make it higher on
                            > > their list of products to axe to cut costs.
                            > >
                            > > Actually I was recommending EB20-12, not BP20-12. I'm not sure about
                            > > the BP type. That's more of a general-purpose.
                            > >
                            > > What temperature was it outside when you were running them?
                            > >
                            > > What warranty was stated?
                            > >
                            > > I know you're pissed at the moment but ALL lead-acid is somewhat dicey
                            > > in this duty. They're also expensive to mfg and ship. They don't make
                            > > all that much on them.
                            > >
                            > > For that matter, it's difficult to really work with warranties because
                            > > there's so much an operator could do to abuse them, and what constitutes
                            > > "failed". I mean by some standards, it has 12v on the terminals and
                            > > runs for almost 2 hrs, that's still "working". I'd be surprised if
                            > > Digikey made the call on this because it's a rather complex technical
                            > > issue. Handing you off to BB is a little unusual but given the
                            > > technical nature I'd say it's logical.
                            > >
                            > > Actually one thing does come to mind, I don't know how plausible it is.
                            > > There is a case for electrolyte stratification, where it "settles out"
                            > > at the bottom. Since it's a gel this really shouldn't happen in
                            > > theory. Well that or maybe any number of technical reasons MIGHT have
                            > > caused some plate inactivation, and it MAY be recoverable. There are
                            > > conditions which can cause slow plates. In fact the mfg data shows it
                            > > actually gains around 15% capacity in the first dozens of cycles after
                            > > it's made. There may be a case where the plates just need some exercise.
                            > >
                            > > In fact, I KNOW storage sulfation does cause high cell impedance- but
                            > > it's generally recoverable. Sulfation shouldn't be very high since they
                            > > were charged, but it might not take much to spoil the moderately high
                            > > rate deep discharge capability.
                            > >
                            > > I would not actually come to any conclusions on the first cycle after a
                            > > long storage. I'd give it 3 cycles and see if capacity is increasing.
                            > >
                            > > Danny
                            > >
                            > > Bob and Barbara wrote:
                            > > > Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at the
                            > recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
                            > > > They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both
                            > Robomowers.
                            > > >
                            > > > Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins on
                            > one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
                            > > > Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our
                            > house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
                            > > > I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days and
                            > fully charged before using them
                            > > >
                            > > > When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer
                            > Service, was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find the
                            > right guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long
                            > distance phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for
                            > them. I then asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically I
                            > got handed off to BB.
                            > > > So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?
                            > > >
                            > > > I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you
                            > know.
                            > > >
                            > > > Bob
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Dan Barclay
                            I was a huge fan of the original Yuasha batteries. These are as close as I ve see to that performance. The replacements that Friendly switched to didn t hold
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 9, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I was a huge fan of the original Yuasha batteries. These are as close as
                              I've see to that performance.



                              The replacements that Friendly switched to didn't hold a candle to these EB
                              or the Yuasha batteries. Unfortunately they apparently just don't make the
                              original battery any more. I went through a couple of the "replacements"
                              and was very disappointed. Runtime decreased quickly.



                              Dan









                              From: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of Bob and Barbara
                              Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 10:22 AM
                              To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From
                              Digikey








                              Dan, That's what I would expect out of new batteries especially Top of the
                              line and expensive($60+) ones. Give me atleast 2 mowing seasons.
                              The original Yuashas(sp) 17A and 18A from both new RL1000s lasted from
                              spring 2005 to spring 2008. I still have 2 of those cells as a back up pack
                              that still give a 2 hour run time.

                              And I have done nothing different with these new BB cells than those. Usage
                              and storage. So go figure.

                              Bob

                              --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dan
                              Barclay" <Dan@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > FWIW, one of my RL1000's finished a mowing cycle this evening. I went out
                              > and checked the runtime: 3:50 on EB20's that I bought last year.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I've been mowing for weeks now.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Dan
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > _____
                              >
                              > From: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com>
                              [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                              Behalf
                              > Of Bob and Barbara
                              > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 9:37 PM
                              > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From
                              > Digikey
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Danny, First off I'm not a "Dude" I'm Bob. Ok?
                              >
                              > I do not intend to piss off Digikey. After being a business owner of
                              several
                              > large companys for 30+ years, I know how to diplomatically handle
                              different
                              > situations.
                              > I have already talked to them again and they are looking into it. They too
                              > agreed, I should not have been just handed off to BB.
                              > But the guy in Warrantee Dept. that didn't have the b*lls to talk to me on
                              > the phone told the gal in CS dept I needed to call BB.
                              > Come to find out he noted in their system he talked to me and that my
                              > batteries were over a year and half old so he rejected the replacment
                              claim.
                              > Bought May 2008 is less than a year.
                              >
                              > Seems that BB battery warrantee is for 12 months from the date that BB
                              ships
                              > the batteries out.
                              > http://www.bb- <http://www.bb-battery.com/limited_warranty.asp>
                              > battery.com/limited_warranty.asp
                              > So in other words BB ships a battery to Digikey, takes a couple weeks in
                              > transit, Digikey has them on a shelf a month, couple months or whatever.
                              > Then Digikey ships to you. You get the picture?
                              >
                              > They recommended the BP20-12 as the best they had for Robos. I know you
                              > recommended the EB20-12 but that was after I ordered and long before they
                              > even had the EB20s in stock.
                              >
                              > The temperature was 58 degrees today when I was running them.
                              >
                              > Warranty is 12 months... But see above.
                              >
                              > Everything else you have written here, I have been in a long conversation
                              > with the Technician at BB. I am going to do some tests for him. Also cycle
                              > them several times and let him know my findings
                              >
                              > Honestly.. How would you feel, not knowing batteries and spent $300, less
                              > than a year ago and experienced all this?
                              >
                              > Bob
                              >
                              > --- In RoboMower@yahoogrou <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,
                              > Danny Miller <dannym@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Dude, plz do not piss off Digikey unnecessarily. They were a little
                              > > apprehensive about carrying EB20-12 before, because it wasn't a highly
                              > > requested item yet. They only sell a few but they give us the best
                              > > price anywhere. If you go in there yelling, it may make it higher on
                              > > their list of products to axe to cut costs.
                              > >
                              > > Actually I was recommending EB20-12, not BP20-12. I'm not sure about
                              > > the BP type. That's more of a general-purpose.
                              > >
                              > > What temperature was it outside when you were running them?
                              > >
                              > > What warranty was stated?
                              > >
                              > > I know you're pissed at the moment but ALL lead-acid is somewhat dicey
                              > > in this duty. They're also expensive to mfg and ship. They don't make
                              > > all that much on them.
                              > >
                              > > For that matter, it's difficult to really work with warranties because
                              > > there's so much an operator could do to abuse them, and what constitutes

                              > > "failed". I mean by some standards, it has 12v on the terminals and
                              > > runs for almost 2 hrs, that's still "working". I'd be surprised if
                              > > Digikey made the call on this because it's a rather complex technical
                              > > issue. Handing you off to BB is a little unusual but given the
                              > > technical nature I'd say it's logical.
                              > >
                              > > Actually one thing does come to mind, I don't know how plausible it is.
                              > > There is a case for electrolyte stratification, where it "settles out"
                              > > at the bottom. Since it's a gel this really shouldn't happen in
                              > > theory. Well that or maybe any number of technical reasons MIGHT have
                              > > caused some plate inactivation, and it MAY be recoverable. There are
                              > > conditions which can cause slow plates. In fact the mfg data shows it
                              > > actually gains around 15% capacity in the first dozens of cycles after
                              > > it's made. There may be a case where the plates just need some exercise.
                              > >
                              > > In fact, I KNOW storage sulfation does cause high cell impedance- but
                              > > it's generally recoverable. Sulfation shouldn't be very high since they
                              > > were charged, but it might not take much to spoil the moderately high
                              > > rate deep discharge capability.
                              > >
                              > > I would not actually come to any conclusions on the first cycle after a
                              > > long storage. I'd give it 3 cycles and see if capacity is increasing.
                              > >
                              > > Danny
                              > >
                              > > Bob and Barbara wrote:
                              > > > Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at
                              the
                              > recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
                              > > > They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both
                              > Robomowers.
                              > > >
                              > > > Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins
                              on
                              > one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
                              > > > Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our
                              > house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
                              > > > I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days
                              and
                              > fully charged before using them
                              > > >
                              > > > When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer
                              > Service, was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find
                              the
                              > right guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long
                              > distance phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for
                              > them. I then asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically
                              I
                              > got handed off to BB.
                              > > > So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?
                              > > >
                              > > > I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you
                              > know.
                              > > >
                              > > > Bob
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Bob and Barbara
                              Dan, I m with you on that. I d love to know just What Yuasha had in those battery cells. And mine were rated 17A on the 1st Robo and 18A on the second Robo. I
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 9, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dan, I'm with you on that. I'd love to know just What Yuasha had in those battery cells.
                                And mine were rated 17A on the 1st Robo and 18A on the second Robo. I still have 2 of those 18A cells in a spare battery pack that gives me 1 1/2 hours of run time after 4 full mowing seasons. 2005 to present.

                                Now, we can't find the same performance on even 20A batts? Mind boggling.

                                Bob


                                --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Barclay" <Dan@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I was a huge fan of the original Yuasha batteries. These are as close as
                                > I've see to that performance.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > The replacements that Friendly switched to didn't hold a candle to these EB
                                > or the Yuasha batteries. Unfortunately they apparently just don't make the
                                > original battery any more. I went through a couple of the "replacements"
                                > and was very disappointed. Runtime decreased quickly.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Dan
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > From: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                > Of Bob and Barbara
                                > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 10:22 AM
                                > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From
                                > Digikey
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Dan, That's what I would expect out of new batteries especially Top of the
                                > line and expensive($60+) ones. Give me atleast 2 mowing seasons.
                                > The original Yuashas(sp) 17A and 18A from both new RL1000s lasted from
                                > spring 2005 to spring 2008. I still have 2 of those cells as a back up pack
                                > that still give a 2 hour run time.
                                >
                                > And I have done nothing different with these new BB cells than those. Usage
                                > and storage. So go figure.
                                >
                                > Bob
                                >
                                > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dan
                                > Barclay" <Dan@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > FWIW, one of my RL1000's finished a mowing cycle this evening. I went out
                                > > and checked the runtime: 3:50 on EB20's that I bought last year.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > I've been mowing for weeks now.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Dan
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > _____
                                > >
                                > > From: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                                > Behalf
                                > > Of Bob and Barbara
                                > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 9:37 PM
                                > > To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > > Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From
                                > > Digikey
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Danny, First off I'm not a "Dude" I'm Bob. Ok?
                                > >
                                > > I do not intend to piss off Digikey. After being a business owner of
                                > several
                                > > large companys for 30+ years, I know how to diplomatically handle
                                > different
                                > > situations.
                                > > I have already talked to them again and they are looking into it. They too
                                > > agreed, I should not have been just handed off to BB.
                                > > But the guy in Warrantee Dept. that didn't have the b*lls to talk to me on
                                > > the phone told the gal in CS dept I needed to call BB.
                                > > Come to find out he noted in their system he talked to me and that my
                                > > batteries were over a year and half old so he rejected the replacment
                                > claim.
                                > > Bought May 2008 is less than a year.
                                > >
                                > > Seems that BB battery warrantee is for 12 months from the date that BB
                                > ships
                                > > the batteries out.
                                > > http://www.bb- <http://www.bb-battery.com/limited_warranty.asp>
                                > > battery.com/limited_warranty.asp
                                > > So in other words BB ships a battery to Digikey, takes a couple weeks in
                                > > transit, Digikey has them on a shelf a month, couple months or whatever.
                                > > Then Digikey ships to you. You get the picture?
                                > >
                                > > They recommended the BP20-12 as the best they had for Robos. I know you
                                > > recommended the EB20-12 but that was after I ordered and long before they
                                > > even had the EB20s in stock.
                                > >
                                > > The temperature was 58 degrees today when I was running them.
                                > >
                                > > Warranty is 12 months... But see above.
                                > >
                                > > Everything else you have written here, I have been in a long conversation
                                > > with the Technician at BB. I am going to do some tests for him. Also cycle
                                > > them several times and let him know my findings
                                > >
                                > > Honestly.. How would you feel, not knowing batteries and spent $300, less
                                > > than a year ago and experienced all this?
                                > >
                                > > Bob
                                > >
                                > > --- In RoboMower@yahoogrou <mailto:RoboMower%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com,
                                > > Danny Miller <dannym@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Dude, plz do not piss off Digikey unnecessarily. They were a little
                                > > > apprehensive about carrying EB20-12 before, because it wasn't a highly
                                > > > requested item yet. They only sell a few but they give us the best
                                > > > price anywhere. If you go in there yelling, it may make it higher on
                                > > > their list of products to axe to cut costs.
                                > > >
                                > > > Actually I was recommending EB20-12, not BP20-12. I'm not sure about
                                > > > the BP type. That's more of a general-purpose.
                                > > >
                                > > > What temperature was it outside when you were running them?
                                > > >
                                > > > What warranty was stated?
                                > > >
                                > > > I know you're pissed at the moment but ALL lead-acid is somewhat dicey
                                > > > in this duty. They're also expensive to mfg and ship. They don't make
                                > > > all that much on them.
                                > > >
                                > > > For that matter, it's difficult to really work with warranties because
                                > > > there's so much an operator could do to abuse them, and what constitutes
                                >
                                > > > "failed". I mean by some standards, it has 12v on the terminals and
                                > > > runs for almost 2 hrs, that's still "working". I'd be surprised if
                                > > > Digikey made the call on this because it's a rather complex technical
                                > > > issue. Handing you off to BB is a little unusual but given the
                                > > > technical nature I'd say it's logical.
                                > > >
                                > > > Actually one thing does come to mind, I don't know how plausible it is.
                                > > > There is a case for electrolyte stratification, where it "settles out"
                                > > > at the bottom. Since it's a gel this really shouldn't happen in
                                > > > theory. Well that or maybe any number of technical reasons MIGHT have
                                > > > caused some plate inactivation, and it MAY be recoverable. There are
                                > > > conditions which can cause slow plates. In fact the mfg data shows it
                                > > > actually gains around 15% capacity in the first dozens of cycles after
                                > > > it's made. There may be a case where the plates just need some exercise.
                                > > >
                                > > > In fact, I KNOW storage sulfation does cause high cell impedance- but
                                > > > it's generally recoverable. Sulfation shouldn't be very high since they
                                > > > were charged, but it might not take much to spoil the moderately high
                                > > > rate deep discharge capability.
                                > > >
                                > > > I would not actually come to any conclusions on the first cycle after a
                                > > > long storage. I'd give it 3 cycles and see if capacity is increasing.
                                > > >
                                > > > Danny
                                > > >
                                > > > Bob and Barbara wrote:
                                > > > > Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at
                                > the
                                > > recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
                                > > > > They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both
                                > > Robomowers.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins
                                > on
                                > > one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
                                > > > > Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our
                                > > house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
                                > > > > I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days
                                > and
                                > > fully charged before using them
                                > > > >
                                > > > > When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer
                                > > Service, was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find
                                > the
                                > > right guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long
                                > > distance phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for
                                > > them. I then asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically
                                > I
                                > > got handed off to BB.
                                > > > > So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you
                                > > know.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Bob
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • jeff webster
                                Does anyone suspect that since most of these are made in China or overseas that quality control is lacking? If you get some good ones, great! If not, trouble.
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 9, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Does anyone suspect that since most of these are made in China or overseas that quality control is lacking? If you get some good ones, great! If not, trouble. I expect them to last a least 2 years. Also, does anyone desulfate their batteries? I have a charger that does that and wondered if it truely is effective since it is a pain to unwire them and do that.

                                  --- On Thu, 4/9/09, Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@...> wrote:


                                  From: Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@...>
                                  Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From Digikey
                                  To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 10:47 AM








                                  Dan, I'm with you on that. I'd love to know just What Yuasha had in those battery cells.
                                  And mine were rated 17A on the 1st Robo and 18A on the second Robo. I still have 2 of those 18A cells in a spare battery pack that gives me 1 1/2 hours of run time after 4 full mowing seasons. 2005 to present.

                                  Now, we can't find the same performance on even 20A batts? Mind boggling.

                                  Bob

                                  --- In RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com, "Dan Barclay" <Dan@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I was a huge fan of the original Yuasha batteries. These are as close as
                                  > I've see to that performance.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The replacements that Friendly switched to didn't hold a candle to these EB
                                  > or the Yuasha batteries. Unfortunately they apparently just don't make the
                                  > original battery any more. I went through a couple of the "replacements"
                                  > and was very disappointed. Runtime decreased quickly.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Dan
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf
                                  > Of Bob and Barbara
                                  > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 10:22 AM
                                  > To: RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com
                                  > Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From
                                  > Digikey
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Dan, That's what I would expect out of new batteries especially Top of the
                                  > line and expensive($60+ ) ones. Give me atleast 2 mowing seasons.
                                  > The original Yuashas(sp) 17A and 18A from both new RL1000s lasted from
                                  > spring 2005 to spring 2008. I still have 2 of those cells as a back up pack
                                  > that still give a 2 hour run time.
                                  >
                                  > And I have done nothing different with these new BB cells than those. Usage
                                  > and storage. So go figure.
                                  >
                                  > Bob
                                  >
                                  > --- In RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:RoboMower% 40yahoogroups. com> , "Dan
                                  > Barclay" <Dan@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > FWIW, one of my RL1000's finished a mowing cycle this evening. I went out
                                  > > and checked the runtime: 3:50 on EB20's that I bought last year.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I've been mowing for weeks now.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Dan
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > _____
                                  > >
                                  > > From: RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:RoboMower% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                  > [mailto:RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:RoboMower% 40yahoogroups. com> ] On
                                  > Behalf
                                  > > Of Bob and Barbara
                                  > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 9:37 PM
                                  > > To: RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com <mailto:RoboMower% 40yahoogroups. com>
                                  > > Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From
                                  > > Digikey
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Danny, First off I'm not a "Dude" I'm Bob. Ok?
                                  > >
                                  > > I do not intend to piss off Digikey. After being a business owner of
                                  > several
                                  > > large companys for 30+ years, I know how to diplomatically handle
                                  > different
                                  > > situations.
                                  > > I have already talked to them again and they are looking into it. They too
                                  > > agreed, I should not have been just handed off to BB.
                                  > > But the guy in Warrantee Dept. that didn't have the b*lls to talk to me on
                                  > > the phone told the gal in CS dept I needed to call BB.
                                  > > Come to find out he noted in their system he talked to me and that my
                                  > > batteries were over a year and half old so he rejected the replacment
                                  > claim.
                                  > > Bought May 2008 is less than a year.
                                  > >
                                  > > Seems that BB battery warrantee is for 12 months from the date that BB
                                  > ships
                                  > > the batteries out.
                                  > > http://www.bb- <http://www.bb- battery.com/ limited_warranty .asp>
                                  > > battery.com/ limited_warranty .asp
                                  > > So in other words BB ships a battery to Digikey, takes a couple weeks in
                                  > > transit, Digikey has them on a shelf a month, couple months or whatever.
                                  > > Then Digikey ships to you. You get the picture?
                                  > >
                                  > > They recommended the BP20-12 as the best they had for Robos. I know you
                                  > > recommended the EB20-12 but that was after I ordered and long before they
                                  > > even had the EB20s in stock.
                                  > >
                                  > > The temperature was 58 degrees today when I was running them.
                                  > >
                                  > > Warranty is 12 months... But see above.
                                  > >
                                  > > Everything else you have written here, I have been in a long conversation
                                  > > with the Technician at BB. I am going to do some tests for him. Also cycle
                                  > > them several times and let him know my findings
                                  > >
                                  > > Honestly.. How would you feel, not knowing batteries and spent $300, less
                                  > > than a year ago and experienced all this?
                                  > >
                                  > > Bob
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In RoboMower@yahoogrou <mailto:RoboMower% 40yahoogroups. com> ps.com,
                                  > > Danny Miller <dannym@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Dude, plz do not piss off Digikey unnecessarily. They were a little
                                  > > > apprehensive about carrying EB20-12 before, because it wasn't a highly
                                  > > > requested item yet. They only sell a few but they give us the best
                                  > > > price anywhere. If you go in there yelling, it may make it higher on
                                  > > > their list of products to axe to cut costs.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Actually I was recommending EB20-12, not BP20-12. I'm not sure about
                                  > > > the BP type. That's more of a general-purpose.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > What temperature was it outside when you were running them?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > What warranty was stated?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I know you're pissed at the moment but ALL lead-acid is somewhat dicey
                                  > > > in this duty. They're also expensive to mfg and ship. They don't make
                                  > > > all that much on them.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > For that matter, it's difficult to really work with warranties because
                                  > > > there's so much an operator could do to abuse them, and what constitutes
                                  >
                                  > > > "failed". I mean by some standards, it has 12v on the terminals and
                                  > > > runs for almost 2 hrs, that's still "working". I'd be surprised if
                                  > > > Digikey made the call on this because it's a rather complex technical
                                  > > > issue. Handing you off to BB is a little unusual but given the
                                  > > > technical nature I'd say it's logical.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Actually one thing does come to mind, I don't know how plausible it is.
                                  > > > There is a case for electrolyte stratification, where it "settles out"
                                  > > > at the bottom. Since it's a gel this really shouldn't happen in
                                  > > > theory. Well that or maybe any number of technical reasons MIGHT have
                                  > > > caused some plate inactivation, and it MAY be recoverable. There are
                                  > > > conditions which can cause slow plates. In fact the mfg data shows it
                                  > > > actually gains around 15% capacity in the first dozens of cycles after
                                  > > > it's made. There may be a case where the plates just need some exercise.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > In fact, I KNOW storage sulfation does cause high cell impedance- but
                                  > > > it's generally recoverable. Sulfation shouldn't be very high since they
                                  > > > were charged, but it might not take much to spoil the moderately high
                                  > > > rate deep discharge capability.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I would not actually come to any conclusions on the first cycle after a
                                  > > > long storage. I'd give it 3 cycles and see if capacity is increasing.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Danny
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Bob and Barbara wrote:
                                  > > > > Yeah, I know Matt. Last year in May I ordered 4 BP20-12 batteries at
                                  > the
                                  > > recommendation of Digikey for Robomowers @ 62.00 each.
                                  > > > > They were giving me 3 1/2-4 hours of run time all season long on both
                                  > > Robomowers.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Now first time having Robos cutting this season, I got 1 hour 45 mins
                                  > on
                                  > > one and 1 hour 1 55 mins on the other.
                                  > > > > Robos and batteries were charged, stored in the basement of our
                                  > > house,(heated) and topped off a couple times.
                                  > > > > I made sure that they were on the docking stations for several days
                                  > and
                                  > > fully charged before using them
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > When I called Digikey and asked for warrantee dept, I got Customer
                                  > > Service, was put on hold for about 20 mins while she was trying to find
                                  > the
                                  > > right guy. Then she came back to me and said I needed to call a long
                                  > > distance phone #. When I asked about an 800# she said they had none for
                                  > > them. I then asked Whose # was it? Was Told BB battery in Calif. Basically
                                  > I
                                  > > got handed off to BB.
                                  > > > > So I called them and they said why didn't Digikey take care of it?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I am going to make a MORE FORCEFULL call to Digikey!! I will let you
                                  > > know.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Bob
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >



















                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Danny Miller
                                  Well, I m not bringing this up to blame you, but you have the wrong type here. BP is in the general-purpose class and I wouldn t have expected them to do
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 9, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Well, I'm not bringing this up to blame you, but you have the wrong type
                                    here.
                                    BP is in the general-purpose class and I wouldn't have expected them to
                                    do especially well.

                                    EB20-12 seems to be doing quite "well", nobody knows what it will yield
                                    after 4 mowing seasons but from what people report so far it could do as
                                    well or better.
                                    I'm just saying, sure we CAN get that much performance- with the right
                                    battery.

                                    Sad thing is this a lot of this is due to the commodity price of lead
                                    going haywire. Back when Friendly started, you could buy these batts
                                    for like $20 apiece! Anybody remember "the good old days"? Now, I
                                    think the entire field is declining since lithium types can do the same
                                    job and do it better and lead costs are uncontrollable. So it's kinda
                                    like trying to find one of those huge square 6v "lantern batteries"
                                    now. People are just mfg for legacy purposes and the lack of money in
                                    the field has lead to quality problems. It's still a big field and lots
                                    of people require them, but the research and all moved on to lithium and
                                    there's no getting around the lead cost.

                                    Danny

                                    Bob and Barbara wrote:
                                    > Dan, I'm with you on that. I'd love to know just What Yuasha had in those battery cells.
                                    > And mine were rated 17A on the 1st Robo and 18A on the second Robo. I still have 2 of those 18A cells in a spare battery pack that gives me 1 1/2 hours of run time after 4 full mowing seasons. 2005 to present.
                                    >
                                    > Now, we can't find the same performance on even 20A batts? Mind boggling.
                                    >
                                    > Bob
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Barclay" <Dan@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> I was a huge fan of the original Yuasha batteries. These are as close as
                                    >> I've see to that performance.
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> The replacements that Friendly switched to didn't hold a candle to these EB
                                    >> or the Yuasha batteries. Unfortunately they apparently just don't make the
                                    >> original battery any more. I went through a couple of the "replacements"
                                    >> and was very disappointed. Runtime decreased quickly.
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Dan
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                  • Danny Miller
                                    Hmm, I was at Altex Electronics today and saw a CSB battery next to their GP stuff labeled EVX12170. EV? Electric vehicle? Well, looked it up and yes it s for
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Apr 9, 2009
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                                      Hmm, I was at Altex Electronics today and saw a CSB battery next to
                                      their GP stuff labeled EVX12170.

                                      EV? Electric vehicle?
                                      Well, looked it up and yes it's for EV mobility. Which is promising.
                                      Shelf price was $59. Which isn't bad at all, esp considering there's no
                                      shipping cost when it's right in front of you. And warranty issues are
                                      much easier.

                                      Is CSB's EV better than BB's EB? They're made for comparable niches.
                                      Well, someone reported in infancy failure in a EB20, no reason to hold
                                      EB sacred. At this point I'd kinda say there's no reason it won't be
                                      the same, or even better. Or, well, it might be closer to the BB's EVX
                                      line, which was capable of super-high current at least early on in its
                                      life but BB said the EB would probably be a better long-term performer,
                                      esp since we have no use for the super-high-current capability. I'm
                                      just wonering that since this uses the same "EVX" label if they're not
                                      the same design as BB's EVX which is actually not the preferred design
                                      for our use.

                                      Danny
                                    • Bob and Barbara
                                      The BP is what they recommended at the time I ordered. They didn t even know of or have the EBs until a few months later. I remember the good old days also
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Apr 10, 2009
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                                        The BP is what they recommended at the time I ordered. They didn't even know of or have the EBs until a few months later.

                                        I remember the good old days also buying the Yuashas for about 30 some dollars.

                                        Bob



                                        --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Danny Miller <dannym@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Well, I'm not bringing this up to blame you, but you have the wrong type
                                        > here.
                                        > BP is in the general-purpose class and I wouldn't have expected them to
                                        > do especially well.
                                        >
                                        > EB20-12 seems to be doing quite "well", nobody knows what it will yield
                                        > after 4 mowing seasons but from what people report so far it could do as
                                        > well or better.
                                        > I'm just saying, sure we CAN get that much performance- with the right
                                        > battery.
                                        >
                                        > Sad thing is this a lot of this is due to the commodity price of lead
                                        > going haywire. Back when Friendly started, you could buy these batts
                                        > for like $20 apiece! Anybody remember "the good old days"? Now, I
                                        > think the entire field is declining since lithium types can do the same
                                        > job and do it better and lead costs are uncontrollable. So it's kinda
                                        > like trying to find one of those huge square 6v "lantern batteries"
                                        > now. People are just mfg for legacy purposes and the lack of money in
                                        > the field has lead to quality problems. It's still a big field and lots
                                        > of people require them, but the research and all moved on to lithium and
                                        > there's no getting around the lead cost.
                                        >
                                        > Danny
                                        >
                                        > Bob and Barbara wrote:
                                        > > Dan, I'm with you on that. I'd love to know just What Yuasha had in those battery cells.
                                        > > And mine were rated 17A on the 1st Robo and 18A on the second Robo. I still have 2 of those 18A cells in a spare battery pack that gives me 1 1/2 hours of run time after 4 full mowing seasons. 2005 to present.
                                        > >
                                        > > Now, we can't find the same performance on even 20A batts? Mind boggling.
                                        > >
                                        > > Bob
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Barclay" <Dan@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >> I was a huge fan of the original Yuasha batteries. These are as close as
                                        > >> I've see to that performance.
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> The replacements that Friendly switched to didn't hold a candle to these EB
                                        > >> or the Yuasha batteries. Unfortunately they apparently just don't make the
                                        > >> original battery any more. I went through a couple of the "replacements"
                                        > >> and was very disappointed. Runtime decreased quickly.
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Dan
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        >
                                      • Bob and Barbara
                                        Update, Digikey is taking care of it. Bob
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Apr 10, 2009
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Update, Digikey is taking care of it.

                                          Bob



                                          --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "Bob and Barbara" <eventtravelers@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > The BP is what they recommended at the time I ordered. They didn't even know of or have the EBs until a few months later.
                                          >
                                          > I remember the good old days also buying the Yuashas for about 30 some dollars.
                                          >
                                          > Bob
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Danny Miller <dannym@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Well, I'm not bringing this up to blame you, but you have the wrong type
                                          > > here.
                                          > > BP is in the general-purpose class and I wouldn't have expected them to
                                          > > do especially well.
                                          > >
                                          > > EB20-12 seems to be doing quite "well", nobody knows what it will yield
                                          > > after 4 mowing seasons but from what people report so far it could do as
                                          > > well or better.
                                          > > I'm just saying, sure we CAN get that much performance- with the right
                                          > > battery.
                                          > >
                                          > > Sad thing is this a lot of this is due to the commodity price of lead
                                          > > going haywire. Back when Friendly started, you could buy these batts
                                          > > for like $20 apiece! Anybody remember "the good old days"? Now, I
                                          > > think the entire field is declining since lithium types can do the same
                                          > > job and do it better and lead costs are uncontrollable. So it's kinda
                                          > > like trying to find one of those huge square 6v "lantern batteries"
                                          > > now. People are just mfg for legacy purposes and the lack of money in
                                          > > the field has lead to quality problems. It's still a big field and lots
                                          > > of people require them, but the research and all moved on to lithium and
                                          > > there's no getting around the lead cost.
                                          > >
                                          > > Danny
                                          > >
                                          > > Bob and Barbara wrote:
                                          > > > Dan, I'm with you on that. I'd love to know just What Yuasha had in those battery cells.
                                          > > > And mine were rated 17A on the 1st Robo and 18A on the second Robo. I still have 2 of those 18A cells in a spare battery pack that gives me 1 1/2 hours of run time after 4 full mowing seasons. 2005 to present.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Now, we can't find the same performance on even 20A batts? Mind boggling.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Bob
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Barclay" <Dan@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > >> I was a huge fan of the original Yuasha batteries. These are as close as
                                          > > >> I've see to that performance.
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> The replacements that Friendly switched to didn't hold a candle to these EB
                                          > > >> or the Yuasha batteries. Unfortunately they apparently just don't make the
                                          > > >> original battery any more. I went through a couple of the "replacements"
                                          > > >> and was very disappointed. Runtime decreased quickly.
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >> Dan
                                          > > >>
                                          > > >>
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Danny Miller
                                          You gonna upgrade to the EBs? Danny
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Apr 10, 2009
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            You gonna upgrade to the EBs?

                                            Danny

                                            Bob and Barbara wrote:
                                            > Update, Digikey is taking care of it.
                                            >
                                            > Bob
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "Bob and Barbara" <eventtravelers@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >> The BP is what they recommended at the time I ordered. They didn't even know of or have the EBs until a few months later.
                                            >>
                                            >> I remember the good old days also buying the Yuashas for about 30 some dollars.
                                            >>
                                            >> Bob
                                            >>
                                            >>
                                          • Bob and Barbara
                                            Yes, Digikey is sending me 4 EBs to replace the ones I got from them last year, and I m paying the cost difference. Bob
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Apr 10, 2009
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Yes, Digikey is sending me 4 EBs to replace the ones I got from them last year, and I'm paying the cost difference.

                                              Bob


                                              --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, Danny Miller <dannym@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > You gonna upgrade to the EBs?
                                              >
                                              > Danny
                                              >
                                              > Bob and Barbara wrote:
                                              > > Update, Digikey is taking care of it.
                                              > >
                                              > > Bob
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In RoboMower@yahoogroups.com, "Bob and Barbara" <eventtravelers@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > >> The BP is what they recommended at the time I ordered. They didn't even know of or have the EBs until a few months later.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> I remember the good old days also buying the Yuashas for about 30 some dollars.
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Bob
                                              > >>
                                              > >>
                                              >
                                            • Ben Sporl
                                              That s great news. It looks like my next purchase will be from Digikey. Now all I have to do is find a job. ________________________________ From: Bob and
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Apr 11, 2009
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                That's great news. It looks like my next purchase will be from Digikey. Now all I have to do is find a job.




                                                ________________________________
                                                From: Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@...>
                                                To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 6:50:46 PM
                                                Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From Digikey





                                                Yes, Digikey is sending me 4 EBs to replace the ones I got from them last year, and I'm paying the cost difference.

                                                Bob

                                                --- In RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com, Danny Miller <dannym@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > You gonna upgrade to the EBs?
                                                >
                                                > Danny
                                                >
                                                > Bob and Barbara wrote:
                                                > > Update, Digikey is taking care of it.
                                                > >
                                                > > Bob
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >




                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • jeff webster
                                                Can we post the final consensus here? Full model of these EBs and web site? ... From: Ben Sporl Subject: Re: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Apr 11, 2009
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Can we post the final consensus here? Full model of these EBs and web site?

                                                  --- On Sat, 4/11/09, Ben Sporl <bsporl@...> wrote:


                                                  From: Ben Sporl <bsporl@...>
                                                  Subject: Re: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From Digikey
                                                  To: RoboMower@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Saturday, April 11, 2009, 8:02 AM








                                                  That's great news. It looks like my next purchase will be from Digikey. Now all I have to do is find a job.

                                                  ____________ _________ _________ __
                                                  From: Bob and Barbara <eventtravelers@ aol.com>
                                                  To: RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com
                                                  Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 6:50:46 PM
                                                  Subject: [RoboMower] Re: Warning! Hold Off On Ordering Batteries From Digikey

                                                  Yes, Digikey is sending me 4 EBs to replace the ones I got from them last year, and I'm paying the cost difference.

                                                  Bob

                                                  --- In RoboMower@yahoogrou ps.com, Danny Miller <dannym@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > You gonna upgrade to the EBs?
                                                  >
                                                  > Danny
                                                  >
                                                  > Bob and Barbara wrote:
                                                  > > Update, Digikey is taking care of it.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Bob
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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