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Reenactorism in Flag Use - Was Stainless Steel Canteens

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  • tedyeat
    I m going to catch hell for this, but here goes. The Use of the Calvert Banner by Md. Continentals is dead wrong. Exhibit A;
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 1, 2007
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      I'm going to catch hell for this, but here goes. The Use of the
      Calvert Banner by Md. Continentals is dead wrong. Exhibit A;
      http://www.sos.state.md.us/Services/FlagHistory.htm
      The 1812 Folks fly these too, a hand-me-down from the Bicentennial.

      Cheers,
      T. Yeatman
      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Callaham" <callaham@...> wrote:
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Dave
      > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 8:27 PM
      > Subject: [Revlist] Re: Fabric Covered Canteens
      >
      >
      > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Callaham" <callaham@> wrote:
      >
      >
      > "... I also hate all those blasted Stainless Steel ones that are
      > showing up. That is the naugahide or polyester of tinware and
      doesn't
      > belong at our events! But, that's for another day..."
      > >
      > > Jay
      > > Coldm Regt
      >
      > -----------------------------
      >
      > I happen to own one of those blasted stainless steel canteens. I
      will
      > never give it up. Just use enough steel wool and some lemon juice
      and
      > you can get it looking just like tin.
      >
      > I went though a leaky wooden one, a rusty tin one, and a glass
      bottle
      > that made it through some tough battles until it broke on
      pavement. The
      > SS one has out lasted them all, worth every penny, and given the
      afore
      > mentioned finishing treatment (I still have the tin one to
      compare the
      > finish with) you would never have know what it was until I just
      > mentioned it.
      >
      > <snip>
      >
      > I have a tin canteen that I've used for more than a decade. I had
      another that I had used for nearly 20 years before that (I fell on it
      and crushed it at an event - and I hate to think what harm would have
      been done to my hip had it been a sturdier steel one!). I've never
      used beeswax or brewer's pitch or other noxious substances to
      waterproof one. I just empty the thing out at the end of the event
      and turn it upside down, unstoppered, so that it can drain and dry
      out on the way home. I have no problems with my tin canteens (I use
      tin in other eras as well). That simple maintenance of the tin is no
      more effort than steel-wool rubbing and other extra effort to make
      stainless look like tin. I know that Stainless Steel is better in
      many ways than tin, as are polyester, vinyl leatherette, aluminum for
      cookware, &ct, &ct, &ct.
      >
      > I won't argue with someone for using significantly less-than-
      correct firelocks that can be bought for $600 - 800 rather than
      getting a really authentic custom musket or rifle for over $1000. I
      won't argue with someone who wears a synthetic hair wig for less than
      $200 rather than a $2000+ custom job. (AND - I'd rather see the
      cheaper wigs than people running around with 21st century
      hairstyles!) I understand that. But a tin canteen is NOT all that
      costly and is just as useful as a Stainless one if simply maintained
      properly. So - I'm arguing against stainless steel.
      >
      > We'll never be perfect at what we do, but we can, and should, do
      better when the more appropriate and period correct items are readily
      available at comparable prices.
      >
      > Cheers!
      >
      > Jay
      > Coldm Regt
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Jay Callaham
      Not much different from that of a NC unit that carries a Naval flag as an infantry Colour (the Don t Tread on Me one with the brown rattlesnake on the 13
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 1, 2007
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        Not much different from that of a NC unit that carries a Naval flag as an infantry Colour (the "Don't Tread on Me" one with the brown rattlesnake on the 13 stripes). I've never seen any evidence of that being carried on land.

        Jay
        Coldm Regt (which carries no flag since there's no evidence of the Guards having Colours, other than camp colours, in America)
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: tedyeat
        To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 11:46 PM
        Subject: [Revlist] Reenactorism in Flag Use - Was Stainless Steel Canteens


        I'm going to catch hell for this, but here goes. The Use of the
        Calvert Banner by Md. Continentals is dead wrong. Exhibit A;
        http://www.sos.state.md.us/Services/FlagHistory.htm
        The 1812 Folks fly these too, a hand-me-down from the Bicentennial.

        Cheers,
        T. Yeatman


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • tedyeat
        That s a Cornwellism, as we are both old enough [perhaps too old] to know, but we grew out of this [One of these day s I ll find that picture of you at Kings
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 1, 2007
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          That's a Cornwellism, as we are both old enough [perhaps too old] to
          know, but we grew out of this [One of these day's I'll find that
          picture of you at Kings Mtn. in 1968 -Was that a Remington Zouave?].
          At any rate, I found a place that offers the Calver Colors in nice
          authentic NYLON, like those still encountered on the field and in the
          camp of certain groups that will remain unnamed. As I recall it,
          theirs are also made of authentic Nylon. They never outgrew it.
          http://www.anyflag.com/Merchant4/merchant.mv?
          Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AFG&Product_Code=35CALVERT

          Cheers,
          T. Yeatman
          P.S. Do you remember the "Polyester Patriots" of New England and how
          they got their name? Ever seen a "Minute Man" clad in 18th century
          Polyester small clothes..........:-)Another Bicentennialism.
          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Callaham" <callaham@...> wrote:
          >
          > Not much different from that of a NC unit that carries a Naval flag
          as an infantry Colour (the "Don't Tread on Me" one with the brown
          rattlesnake on the 13 stripes). I've never seen any evidence of that
          being carried on land.
          >
          > Jay
          > Coldm Regt (which carries no flag since there's no evidence of the
          Guards having Colours, other than camp colours, in America)
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: tedyeat
          > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 11:46 PM
          > Subject: [Revlist] Reenactorism in Flag Use - Was Stainless Steel
          Canteens
          >
          >
          > I'm going to catch hell for this, but here goes. The Use of the
          > Calvert Banner by Md. Continentals is dead wrong. Exhibit A;
          > http://www.sos.state.md.us/Services/FlagHistory.htm
          > The 1812 Folks fly these too, a hand-me-down from the
          Bicentennial.
          >
          > Cheers,
          > T. Yeatman
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Dave
          ... I have a tin canteen that I ve used for more than a decade. I had another that I had used for nearly 20 years before that (I fell on it and crushed it at
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 2, 2007
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            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Callaham" <callaham@...> wrote:

            I have a tin canteen that I've used for more than a decade. I had
            another that I had used for nearly 20 years before that (I fell on it
            and crushed it at an event - and I hate to think what harm would have
            been done to my hip had it been a sturdier steel one!). I've never
            used beeswax or brewer's pitch or other noxious substances to
            waterproof one. I just empty the thing out at the end of the event
            and turn it upside down, unstoppered, so that it can drain and dry
            out on the way home. I have no problems with my tin canteens (I use
            tin in other eras as well). That simple maintenance of the tin is no
            more effort than steel-wool rubbing and other extra effort to make
            stainless look like tin. I know that Stainless Steel is better in
            many ways than tin, as are polyester, vinyl leatherette, aluminum for
            cookware, &ct, &ct, &ct.
            >
            > I won't argue with someone for using significantly less-than-
            correct firelocks that can be bought for $600 - 800 rather than
            getting a really authentic custom musket or rifle for over $1000. I
            won't argue with someone who wears a synthetic hair wig for less than
            $200 rather than a $2000+ custom job. (AND - I'd rather see the
            cheaper wigs than people running around with 21st century
            hairstyles!) I understand that. But a tin canteen is NOT all that
            costly and is just as useful as a Stainless one if simply maintained
            properly. So - I'm arguing against stainless steel.
            >
            > We'll never be perfect at what we do, but we can, and should, do
            better when the more appropriate and period correct items are readily
            available at comparable prices.
            >
            > Cheers!
            >
            > Jay
            > Coldm Regt
            ------------------------------------


            We choose our battles where we can.

            For example I disagree with you about hair styles. A simple short
            men's haircut can easily be explained by the fact that head lice was
            always rampant in camps on both sides and the treatment involved
            shaving the head, thus you would see many soldiers with hair in
            various stages of regrowth. Simple. And yes I wore my hair long for
            three years (as my friends here will remember at many events) before
            I had to cut it for employment reasons. It yeilded a 13 inch ponytail
            (which was donated to a charity which makes wigs for children
            undergoing cancer treatment). I know perfectly well what it is to
            have "correct" hair, and what an annoyance it is to take care of, and
            what a relief it is to be finally rid of it.

            As far as canteens go some tin ones may be coming out of the factory
            better lined with pitch than others. Mine started to rust immediately
            despite all attempts to "empty" it including using rubbing alcohol to
            flush it out and speed up the drying process. Even with my SS one
            weeks after flushing it out even with the alcohol I still find traces
            of water in it. And I am not the only one, most people I have met
            have experienced the same frustrations, I'll bet more people have
            experienced the same problems rather than have not. And $60 for some
            people is very expensive, the SS canteen only became economically
            justified for me once I expended more money on failed canteens.

            One way to end this would be if someone on this list could state that
            they had success relining a tin canteen with new pitch after it had
            started rusting and then tell us how. Then you would have me won over
            to your side (but not on the hair debate).

            Dave H
            3NH
          • Charles Phillips
            ... T. Yeatman, The article you refer to is quite right. I hope no one has been flying the Crossland colors in RevWar events - only the Calvert colors. The
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 2, 2007
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              > I'm going to catch hell for this, but here goes. The Use of the
              > Calvert Banner by Md. Continentals is dead wrong. Exhibit A;
              > http://www.sos.state.md.us/Services/FlagHistory.htm
              > The 1812 Folks fly these too, a hand-me-down from the Bicentennial.

              T. Yeatman,

              The article you refer to is quite right. I hope no one has been
              flying the Crossland colors in RevWar events - only the Calvert
              colors. The Calvert colors are flown today at Fort Frederick with the
              Cross of St(s) George and Andrew (I don't think it was referred to as
              the Union Jack quite yet) in the upper left quadrant because Governor
              Sharpe's papers show that he had one made for himself. While no one
              can prove that it ever flew at the Fort, he was a frequent visitor to
              the fort, he ramrodded it's construction through the legislature and
              he considered it "his fort."


              R/s,
              Charlie

              I have the heart of a child. I keep it in a jar on my shelf.
              ---Robert Bloch
            • Michael Parrish
              Did I mis-read this: Throughout the colonial period, only the yellow-and-black Calvert family colors are mentioned in descriptions of the Maryland flag. ?
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 2, 2007
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                Did I mis-read this: "Throughout the colonial period, only the
                yellow-and-black Calvert family colors are mentioned in descriptions
                of the Maryland flag." ? (From your link) Sounds like flags used by
                Maryland Continentals would likely have featured the yellow and black
                Calvert family colors. I'll go along with the Crossland colors and
                crosses being (officially) added much later. When you say "Calvert
                Banner" do you mean the yellow and black Calvert colors or, the modern
                Calvert/Crossland iteration? MIKE

                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "tedyeat" <tedyeat@...> wrote:
                >
                > I'm going to catch hell for this, but here goes. The Use of the
                > Calvert Banner by Md. Continentals is dead wrong. Exhibit A;
                > http://www.sos.state.md.us/Services/FlagHistory.htm
                > The 1812 Folks fly these too, a hand-me-down from the Bicentennial.
                >
                > Cheers,
                > T. Yeatman
                > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Callaham" <callaham@> wrote:
                > >
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: Dave
                > > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 8:27 PM
                > > Subject: [Revlist] Re: Fabric Covered Canteens
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Callaham" <callaham@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > "... I also hate all those blasted Stainless Steel ones that are
                > > showing up. That is the naugahide or polyester of tinware and
                > doesn't
                > > belong at our events! But, that's for another day..."
                > > >
                > > > Jay
                > > > Coldm Regt
                > >
                > > -----------------------------
                > >
                > > I happen to own one of those blasted stainless steel canteens. I
                > will
                > > never give it up. Just use enough steel wool and some lemon juice
                > and
                > > you can get it looking just like tin.
                > >
                > > I went though a leaky wooden one, a rusty tin one, and a glass
                > bottle
                > > that made it through some tough battles until it broke on
                > pavement. The
                > > SS one has out lasted them all, worth every penny, and given the
                > afore
                > > mentioned finishing treatment (I still have the tin one to
                > compare the
                > > finish with) you would never have know what it was until I just
                > > mentioned it.
                > >
                > > <snip>
                > >
                > > I have a tin canteen that I've used for more than a decade. I had
                > another that I had used for nearly 20 years before that (I fell on it
                > and crushed it at an event - and I hate to think what harm would have
                > been done to my hip had it been a sturdier steel one!). I've never
                > used beeswax or brewer's pitch or other noxious substances to
                > waterproof one. I just empty the thing out at the end of the event
                > and turn it upside down, unstoppered, so that it can drain and dry
                > out on the way home. I have no problems with my tin canteens (I use
                > tin in other eras as well). That simple maintenance of the tin is no
                > more effort than steel-wool rubbing and other extra effort to make
                > stainless look like tin. I know that Stainless Steel is better in
                > many ways than tin, as are polyester, vinyl leatherette, aluminum for
                > cookware, &ct, &ct, &ct.
                > >
                > > I won't argue with someone for using significantly less-than-
                > correct firelocks that can be bought for $600 - 800 rather than
                > getting a really authentic custom musket or rifle for over $1000. I
                > won't argue with someone who wears a synthetic hair wig for less than
                > $200 rather than a $2000+ custom job. (AND - I'd rather see the
                > cheaper wigs than people running around with 21st century
                > hairstyles!) I understand that. But a tin canteen is NOT all that
                > costly and is just as useful as a Stainless one if simply maintained
                > properly. So - I'm arguing against stainless steel.
                > >
                > > We'll never be perfect at what we do, but we can, and should, do
                > better when the more appropriate and period correct items are readily
                > available at comparable prices.
                > >
                > > Cheers!
                > >
                > > Jay
                > > Coldm Regt
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • Patrick O'Kelley
                Howdy, ... Actually you won t catch hell. It has been a long time since I have seen the Maryland checkerboard fly on a battlefield. I think the last time I
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 2, 2007
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                  Howdy,

                  > > I'm going to catch hell for this, but here goes. The Use of the
                  > > Calvert Banner by Md. Continentals is dead wrong. Exhibit A;
                  > > http://www.sos.state.md.us/Services/FlagHistory.htm
                  > > The 1812 Folks fly these too, a hand-me-down from the
                  >>Bicentennial.

                  Actually you won't catch hell. It has been a long time since I
                  have seen the Maryland checkerboard fly on a battlefield. I think
                  the last time I saw it flown by the 1st Maryland is back in the early
                  1990s. Research has pushed it to the past.
                  I am going to post a picture of the 225th of Guilford Courthouse.
                  During that battle the 1st Maryland and the 2nd North Carolina
                  portrayed the 1st Maryland. You can clearly see what they are
                  flying. It is a red flag, not the yellow checkerboard.
                  Another example of the flag not being used is Pam Patrick White's
                  Camden painting. When she was painting the picture she asked me if I
                  knew what they were flying for colors. I did not, but she also
                  didn't want to portray the checkerboard, since she knew it wasn't
                  correct. As you can see she portrayed a solid yellow flag, instead
                  of the Calvert checkerboard.

                  http://mywebpages.comcast.net/patrickpaints/Pages/Camden.htm

                  This topic of a flag flown by a couple of units is not quite the
                  same thing as stainless steel canteens (which I also think is the
                  leisure suit of tinware). I had a steel canteen for a long time.
                  Never rusted. Never had a problem, but I did what Jay was talking
                  about. I stored it upside down, with the top off.
                  I no longer carry a tin canteen because I documented myself out of
                  one. The Continental army was by and large a wooden canteen carrying
                  army by 1779 and on. So I got a wooden canteen. I do conceed that
                  it is hard to find someone who makes a decent one, I did finally get
                  a barrel canteen from Godwin that works. Even it fell apart after
                  about a year, but I had Wade Rogers from the 2nd NC put copper bands
                  on it, and now it works fine and never leaks.
                  Don't fool yourself. For those of you who carry stainless
                  canteens, and think that you are camoflauging it by hitting it with
                  some steel wool, you aren't hiding it well. Its kind of like breast
                  implants or bad toupee. You may think it looks normal, but dang near
                  everyone, except the unexperienced, know it is fake.

                  Patrick O'Kelley
                  2nd North Carolina Regiment http://www.2nc.org/
                  The Carolina Brigade http://www.carolinabrigade.org/
                  Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" and Francis Marion's
                  Orderly book
                  Available at http://bluehousetavern.com/
                • Jay Callaham
                  Ahhhhh - - the memories! I d LOVE to have a photo of me from that King s Mountain workshop in 68! Background: The week before, I d been at a WBTS event
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 2, 2007
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                    Ahhhhh - - the memories!

                    I'd LOVE to have a photo of me from that King's Mountain workshop in '68!

                    Background: The week before, I'd been at a WBTS event commemorating the battles of Ball's Bluff and Marble Quarry in MD. I had met Richard Cornwell before that and we'd become friends. He invited me to the King's Mountain thing the following weekend telling me how much fun Rev War was. I didn't believe it - thought it would be too slow. Silly me. I pointed out that I didn't have squat for costuming for Rev War and he told me to "throw something together" or that he would loan me a kit (from out of the "War Wagon" - - that old hearse that he used to drive to events loaded with his gear that he passed out to all and sundry who needed it).

                    So there I was - YES - with a repro 1863 Remington Zouave rifle (that I'd bought new in the box for $55.00), Civil War era leathers (from which I'd removed the "CSA" plates), a black cowboy hat pinned up on three sides - with feather (never did stop liking the feathers<^;\), white dress shirt, brown vest that I'd bought at the Salvation Army store, tan jeans that I'd cut off below the knees and rolled up with Army blousing rubbers, brown dress socks that I'd stretched all out of shape to get them over my knees, and black loafers with the buckle on the side that were popular at that time. That was my kit for my first AWI era event!

                    I still miss old Richard. In an avocation that attracts unique individuals, he stood out. His home was - - -- - very different.

                    Do, please scan any photos of that workshop and send them to me. I don't have any from that event. BTW - the two bagpipers were friends of mine who came out to check it out. One actually got active for a while. I've still got the commemorative medal for that event somewhere around here.

                    Cheers!

                    Jay
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: tedyeat
                    To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 12:48 AM
                    Subject: [Revlist] Re: Reenactorism in Flag Use - Was Stainless Steel Canteens


                    That's a Cornwellism, as we are both old enough [perhaps too old] to
                    know, but we grew out of this [One of these day's I'll find that
                    picture of you at Kings Mtn. in 1968 -Was that a Remington Zouave?].

                    <snip>

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • PBSP@AOL.COM
                    In a message dated 9/2/2007 12:49:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tedyeat@yahoo.com writes: T. Yeatman P.S. Do you remember the Polyester Patriots of New
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 2, 2007
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                      In a message dated 9/2/2007 12:49:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                      tedyeat@... writes:

                      T. Yeatman
                      P.S. Do you remember the "Polyester Patriots" of New England and how
                      they got their name? Ever seen a "Minute Man" clad in 18th century
                      Polyester small clothes..........:-)Another Bicentennialism.



                      Ted

                      Hey, I resemble that remark! When I joined the Militia & Minute in Mass.
                      in 1973, I made a great effort to hide the zipper on my polyester breeches
                      (formerly my pants) by making my vinyl wrap around waist coat a bit longer.
                      Topped by my Concord gift shoppe cocked hat (oops, sorry, gift shoppe tricorn) I
                      looked snappy. I was ready to repel those who would enslave us with my trusty
                      Mass militia Numerich Arms long rifle, the weapon of choice by New Englanders.
                      Hey, I bet you didn't know you could carry a lot more cartridges in your box
                      if you made them by wrapping paper around a Bic pen, slathered with Elmer's
                      glue. One can fit several of these cartridge 'cigarettes' in each hole in your
                      block!

                      Then I went to work for Sturbridge Village and they made me do something
                      called "authenticity".

                      Now a days my biggest lapse in authenticity is my weight and lack of pox
                      marks.

                      John Mills
                      Mott's Artillery



                      ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
                      http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • tedyeat
                      I had a photo of one or two of those bagpipers. The photos are either lost or buried somwhere in a box. There have been a number of moves over the years. Kings
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 2, 2007
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                        I had a photo of one or two of those bagpipers. The photos are either
                        lost or buried somwhere in a box. There have been a number of moves
                        over the years. Kings Mtn. was the first REAL Rev. War battlefield I
                        ever visited. Of course we held this in the S.C. State park, and not
                        on the original site. Hard to believe it will have been 40 years next
                        year. Rev. War has come a LONG way since. If you had a flintlock
                        chances were it was made for trade in the Belgian Congo and sold by
                        Dixie. I had one of the muskts and it was a fair shooter. The old
                        63rd Regt. had some Long Tom Fowling pieces that had soft frizzens. I
                        sort of wanted one of the 4 Ga. Flint "Elephant Guns" they sold. It
                        wasn't until sometime in the early 70's that mass produced Besses
                        started to appear. Was Godwin selling things then? When did he go
                        into business? I can recall when Avalon Forge first appeared on the
                        scene.

                        You may recall Jack Purser who did the Light Coy. of the 71st.
                        Somebody told me he left the law practice with the U.S. Govt. and
                        became a minister! Richard, unfortunately, had Alzheimers. You can
                        imagine what that must have been like. I ran into someone from the
                        old group while in Nashville last fall who filled me in. Apparently
                        he got estranged from almost everyone in the old group, including Joe
                        Cooper.Whoever was looking after Richard probably had their hands
                        full to start with, but somehow they got his Machine Gun collection.
                        It seems that one Christmas season Richard was found waving his
                        Browning High-Power at some holiday figures put in the front yard of
                        a house across the street. He thought they were casing the place.
                        Shortly after that he was taken to the VA Hospital in Murfreesboro.
                        His last days must have been a real wild ride, if you recall when
                        things were "normal".

                        The last time I recall seeing him was around 1988, a couple of years
                        before I moved to Md.. He was doing WWII Russian Front and U.S.. He
                        said he got to play himself in the latter. One of the funniest
                        stories in that regard concerns a fellow who was a self-
                        proclaimed "expert" on what was and wasn't used. You know the type.
                        They have nothing to back up anything, but are always acting as if
                        they do. THis fellow got into an argument about wether a piece of
                        clothing or gear was used or not. Richard disagreed with him on
                        something and the fellow started shooting off his mouth. "Were you
                        there?', Richard asked him, before a group of reenactors. "No,
                        but...." he started to respond. "Well I was and WE DID!", Richard
                        told him. There was a lot of snickering and the fellow left in a
                        huff.

                        Richard certainly was an original. They used to pack that old hearse
                        full of people and gear, and on at least one occasion had it tow an
                        original 1861 dated Bronze James Gun on a trailer to an event. That
                        got some double takes. They'd pull into a drive-in in some small
                        souther town and a fellow who was Richard's Orderly Sgt. would get
                        out of the back, decked out like one of John Wayne's me in "The
                        BHorse Soldsiers", bow and doff his hat, and say "Honest, we're not
                        crazy", to the car hop. Hank Williams Jr. was one of the members of
                        his C.W. group during the latter part of the Centennial. Folks would
                        come up to hank and say, "You look just like Hank Williams Jr.", and
                        he'd say, "That's because I am". They would walk away puzzled,
                        thinking he was putting them on.

                        My favorite event was during the Bicentennial, on Labor Day weekend
                        of 1978, 29 years ago, "The Massacre of Eagle Creek". Some fellow up
                        near Dale Hollow Lake was selling house lots, and to pull folks in he
                        bankrolled the whole thing. Richard had just lost the Green Hills
                        theater, which he'd managed for years, and was working as relief
                        manager of some drive-in theaters around Nashville. He got this idea
                        to stage an event that never actually happened as though it really
                        had. There were programs to the event printed up with a cover
                        depicting Ft. Ticonderoga and Mt. Rushmore[what T.R. and Lincoln had
                        to do with the Revolution is a mystery]. Incide was a history of the
                        campaign and events leasing up to the "massacre", which sounded a lot
                        like "Drums Along the Mohawk" set in the South and directed by Sergio
                        Leone. They even invited a reporter from the NATIONAL ENQUIRER to do
                        a feature. I had to bite my tongue when he was around. Everyone was
                        clued to play it straight with him. I'm still laughing after all
                        these years when I think about it. Richard loaned us some of his 4th
                        Continental Dragoon coats and we ened up plating "Pilkutski's Legion"
                        [made up of foreign adventurers and deserters from the British Army]
                        for the event. Ricard ended up killing a Copperhead with his basket
                        hilt during a troop movement in the last phase the event. He had a
                        local auctionerr named "Col." Masters [forgot the first name, serving
                        as "Masters of Ceremony" here. Narrating the event as though it were
                        real. The fellow in charge of our group was a history teacher who
                        commented, "I've seen better history written on restroom walls". It
                        was one of my guilty pleasures of reenacting.Some of the locals
                        actually wanted our autographs after it was over. If there was ever
                        a "Reenactors Hall of Fame" Richard would have to be included.

                        YH&OS,
                        T. Yeatman
                        Pilkutski's Legion
                      • tedyeat
                        John, Sounds about right. Was the polyester double-knit fabric, about like that found in leisure suit coats of the 1970 s? This harkens me back to the days
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 2, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          John,
                          Sounds about right. Was the polyester double-knit fabric, about
                          like that found in leisure suit coats of the 1970's? This harkens me
                          back to the days when the "Authentic Camp" consisted of GYI surplus
                          OD pup tents. That was on the way out by around 1973-74. These and
                          Pop-up campers. What did they use for flags? Were they Nylon?

                          YH&OS,
                          T. Yeatman

                          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, PBSP@... wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > In a message dated 9/2/2007 12:49:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                          > tedyeat@... writes:
                          >
                          > T. Yeatman
                          > P.S. Do you remember the "Polyester Patriots" of New England and
                          how
                          > they got their name? Ever seen a "Minute Man" clad in 18th century
                          > Polyester small clothes..........:-)Another Bicentennialism.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Ted
                          >
                          > Hey, I resemble that remark! When I joined the Militia &
                          Minute in Mass.
                          > in 1973, I made a great effort to hide the zipper on my polyester
                          breeches
                          > (formerly my pants) by making my vinyl wrap around waist coat a bit
                          longer.
                          > Topped by my Concord gift shoppe cocked hat (oops, sorry, gift
                          shoppe tricorn) I
                          > looked snappy. I was ready to repel those who would enslave us with
                          my trusty
                          > Mass militia Numerich Arms long rifle, the weapon of choice by New
                          Englanders.
                          > Hey, I bet you didn't know you could carry a lot more cartridges in
                          your box
                          > if you made them by wrapping paper around a Bic pen, slathered with
                          Elmer's
                          > glue. One can fit several of these cartridge 'cigarettes' in each
                          hole in your
                          > block!
                          >
                          > Then I went to work for Sturbridge Village and they made me do
                          something
                          > called "authenticity".
                          >
                          > Now a days my biggest lapse in authenticity is my weight and
                          lack of pox
                          > marks.
                          >
                          > John Mills
                          > Mott's Artillery
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-
                          new AOL at
                          > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Patrick O'Kelley
                          Howdy, ... Duh! I forgot to tell you where I posted it. Look in the Rev List photo files. Find the file titled Muskets and Oddities . The photograph of
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 2, 2007
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                            Howdy,

                            > I am going to post a picture of the 225th of Guilford Courthouse.
                            > During that battle the 1st Maryland and the 2nd North Carolina
                            > portrayed the 1st Maryland. You can clearly see what they are
                            > flying. It is a red flag, not the yellow checkerboard.

                            Duh!
                            I forgot to tell you where I posted it. Look in the Rev List photo
                            files. Find the file titled "Muskets and Oddities". The photograph of
                            225th Guilford is there.

                            Patrick O'Kelley
                            2nd North Carolina Regiment http://www.2nc.org/
                            The Carolina Brigade http://www.carolinabrigade.org/
                            Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" and Francis Marion's
                            Orderly book
                            Available at http://bluehousetavern.com/
                          • Bruce McNeal
                            ... The flag you mention http://tinyurl.com/2p6ufw was ordered by Gov Sharp for Braddocks march (IIRC). It is described in the minutes of the Proceedings of
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 2, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- Charles Phillips <charles.f.phillips@...> wrote:
                              > The article you refer to is quite right. I hope no one has been
                              > flying the Crossland colors in RevWar events - only the Calvert
                              > colors. The Calvert colors are flown today at Fort Frederick with
                              > the
                              > Cross of St(s) George and Andrew (I don't think it was referred to as
                              > the Union Jack quite yet) in the upper left quadrant because Governor
                              > Sharpe's papers show that he had one made for himself.


                              The flag you mention http://tinyurl.com/2p6ufw was ordered by Gov Sharp
                              for Braddocks march (IIRC). It is described in the minutes of the
                              Proceedings of the Council of Maryland, 1753-1761.

                              To the best of my knowledge there is no evidence that the flag was ever
                              made or flown. I believe just the Calvert colors (black and yellow)
                              would be appropriate but I have no evidence to hand of it's actual use.

                              All the Best,
                              Bruce McNeal
                              Md Loyalists
                            • tedyeat
                              The Calvert Banner. ... black ... modern ... Bicentennial. ... are ... canteens. I ... juice ... glass ... the ... just ... had ... on it ... have ... never
                              Message 14 of 23 , Sep 3, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                The Calvert Banner.

                                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Parrish" <mike@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Did I mis-read this: "Throughout the colonial period, only the
                                > yellow-and-black Calvert family colors are mentioned in descriptions
                                > of the Maryland flag." ? (From your link) Sounds like flags used by
                                > Maryland Continentals would likely have featured the yellow and
                                black
                                > Calvert family colors. I'll go along with the Crossland colors and
                                > crosses being (officially) added much later. When you say "Calvert
                                > Banner" do you mean the yellow and black Calvert colors or, the
                                modern
                                > Calvert/Crossland iteration? MIKE
                                >
                                > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "tedyeat" <tedyeat@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I'm going to catch hell for this, but here goes. The Use of the
                                > > Calvert Banner by Md. Continentals is dead wrong. Exhibit A;
                                > > http://www.sos.state.md.us/Services/FlagHistory.htm
                                > > The 1812 Folks fly these too, a hand-me-down from the
                                Bicentennial.
                                > >
                                > > Cheers,
                                > > T. Yeatman
                                > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Callaham" <callaham@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > From: Dave
                                > > > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 8:27 PM
                                > > > Subject: [Revlist] Re: Fabric Covered Canteens
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Callaham" <callaham@>
                                wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > "... I also hate all those blasted Stainless Steel ones that
                                are
                                > > > showing up. That is the naugahide or polyester of tinware and
                                > > doesn't
                                > > > belong at our events! But, that's for another day..."
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Jay
                                > > > > Coldm Regt
                                > > >
                                > > > -----------------------------
                                > > >
                                > > > I happen to own one of those blasted stainless steel
                                canteens. I
                                > > will
                                > > > never give it up. Just use enough steel wool and some lemon
                                juice
                                > > and
                                > > > you can get it looking just like tin.
                                > > >
                                > > > I went though a leaky wooden one, a rusty tin one, and a
                                glass
                                > > bottle
                                > > > that made it through some tough battles until it broke on
                                > > pavement. The
                                > > > SS one has out lasted them all, worth every penny, and given
                                the
                                > > afore
                                > > > mentioned finishing treatment (I still have the tin one to
                                > > compare the
                                > > > finish with) you would never have know what it was until I
                                just
                                > > > mentioned it.
                                > > >
                                > > > <snip>
                                > > >
                                > > > I have a tin canteen that I've used for more than a decade. I
                                had
                                > > another that I had used for nearly 20 years before that (I fell
                                on it
                                > > and crushed it at an event - and I hate to think what harm would
                                have
                                > > been done to my hip had it been a sturdier steel one!). I've
                                never
                                > > used beeswax or brewer's pitch or other noxious substances to
                                > > waterproof one. I just empty the thing out at the end of the
                                event
                                > > and turn it upside down, unstoppered, so that it can drain and
                                dry
                                > > out on the way home. I have no problems with my tin canteens (I
                                use
                                > > tin in other eras as well). That simple maintenance of the tin is
                                no
                                > > more effort than steel-wool rubbing and other extra effort to
                                make
                                > > stainless look like tin. I know that Stainless Steel is better in
                                > > many ways than tin, as are polyester, vinyl leatherette, aluminum
                                for
                                > > cookware, &ct, &ct, &ct.
                                > > >
                                > > > I won't argue with someone for using significantly less-than-
                                > > correct firelocks that can be bought for $600 - 800 rather than
                                > > getting a really authentic custom musket or rifle for over $1000.
                                I
                                > > won't argue with someone who wears a synthetic hair wig for less
                                than
                                > > $200 rather than a $2000+ custom job. (AND - I'd rather see the
                                > > cheaper wigs than people running around with 21st century
                                > > hairstyles!) I understand that. But a tin canteen is NOT all that
                                > > costly and is just as useful as a Stainless one if simply
                                maintained
                                > > properly. So - I'm arguing against stainless steel.
                                > > >
                                > > > We'll never be perfect at what we do, but we can, and should,
                                do
                                > > better when the more appropriate and period correct items are
                                readily
                                > > available at comparable prices.
                                > > >
                                > > > Cheers!
                                > > >
                                > > > Jay
                                > > > Coldm Regt
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • tedyeat
                                This is the Calvert Banner. Take a look at the shot of it in the Photos section. You ll probably recognize the group. I ve seen photos of the 1st Md. with this
                                Message 15 of 23 , Sep 3, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  This is the Calvert Banner. Take a look at the shot of it in the
                                  Photos section. You'll probably recognize the group. I've seen photos
                                  of the 1st Md. with this during the Bicentennial, but they eventually
                                  replaced it. It's still seeing some very anachronistic use in 1812
                                  events.

                                  YH&OS,

                                  T.Yeatman

                                  --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Bruce McNeal <mcneal@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- Charles Phillips <charles.f.phillips@...> wrote:
                                  > > The article you refer to is quite right. I hope no one has been
                                  > > flying the Crossland colors in RevWar events - only the Calvert
                                  > > colors. The Calvert colors are flown today at Fort Frederick with
                                  > > the
                                  > > Cross of St(s) George and Andrew (I don't think it was referred
                                  to as
                                  > > the Union Jack quite yet) in the upper left quadrant because
                                  Governor
                                  > > Sharpe's papers show that he had one made for himself.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The flag you mention http://tinyurl.com/2p6ufw was ordered by Gov
                                  Sharp
                                  > for Braddocks march (IIRC). It is described in the minutes of the
                                  > Proceedings of the Council of Maryland, 1753-1761.
                                  >
                                  > To the best of my knowledge there is no evidence that the flag was
                                  ever
                                  > made or flown. I believe just the Calvert colors (black and yellow)
                                  > would be appropriate but I have no evidence to hand of it's actual
                                  use.
                                  >
                                  > All the Best,
                                  > Bruce McNeal
                                  > Md Loyalists
                                  >
                                • Rob and Stephanie Friar
                                  List, While on the subject of hair, I have always wondered something: if a guy was naturally bald at a young age (hey it happens as anyone who knows me can
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Sep 3, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    List,

                                    While on the subject of hair, I have always wondered something: if a guy was
                                    naturally bald at a young age (hey it happens as anyone who knows me can
                                    attest.;>), what is the general feeling as to his appearance "in the field".
                                    Speaking of the patriot forces (cont. line and militia), would he have been
                                    expected to wear a whig at all times? Did they not usually wear whigs "in
                                    the field" in that era?

                                    Thanks for your thoughts on this one.

                                    Rob Friar

                                    7th Va. & HM Sloop OTTER



                                    _____


                                    <For example I disagree with you about hair styles. A simple short
                                    men's haircut can easily be explained by the fact that head lice was
                                    always rampant in camps on both sides and the treatment involved
                                    shaving the head, thus you would see many soldiers with hair in
                                    various stages of regrowth. Simple. And yes I wore my hair long for
                                    three years (as my friends here will remember at many events) before
                                    I had to cut it for employment reasons. It yeilded a 13 inch ponytail
                                    (which was donated to a charity which makes wigs for children
                                    undergoing cancer treatment). I know perfectly well what it is to
                                    have "correct" hair, and what an annoyance it is to take care of, and
                                    what a relief it is to be finally rid of it.>






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Robert Weaver
                                    I started reenacting in the early days of the Bicentennial, in 1976, so I don t have the cache that you guys who started in the 60s have. But you make my first
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Sep 3, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I started reenacting in the early days of the Bicentennial, in 1976,
                                      so I don't have the cache that you guys who started in the 60s have.
                                      But you make my first uniform sound so progressive. It was made on
                                      the Simplicity patterns, completely from double knit polyester.
                                      Except for the shirt - that was cotton. We wore knee socks and low-
                                      quarter shoes, with a vinyl buckle on the front held on with an
                                      elastic band that slipped around the instep of your shoe. Topped off
                                      by a 3-cornered hat from a gift shop in Lancaster, PA, I was ready
                                      to go. That uniform was the most brutally hot set of clothing I have
                                      ever worn in my life. (So I had a nice Spanish bota bag to wear as a
                                      canteen!) Then I met Ed Arufat and the fine folks in the BAR. The
                                      hat got to stay, although in greatly modified form. It's great, and
                                      humbling, to remember that we're all farbs somewhere in our pasts.
                                      -Rob Weaver, Lochry's Militia
                                      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "tedyeat" <tedyeat@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > John,
                                      > Sounds about right. Was the polyester double-knit fabric,
                                      about
                                      > like that found in leisure suit coats of the 1970's? This harkens
                                      me
                                      > back to the days when the "Authentic Camp" consisted of GYI
                                      surplus
                                      > OD pup tents. That was on the way out by around 1973-74. These and
                                      > Pop-up campers. What did they use for flags? Were they Nylon?
                                      >
                                      > YH&OS,
                                      > T. Yeatman
                                      >
                                      > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, PBSP@ wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > In a message dated 9/2/2007 12:49:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                      > > tedyeat@ writes:
                                      > >
                                      > > T. Yeatman
                                      > > P.S. Do you remember the "Polyester Patriots" of New England and
                                      > how
                                      > > they got their name? Ever seen a "Minute Man" clad in 18th
                                      century
                                      > > Polyester small clothes..........:-)Another Bicentennialism.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Ted
                                      > >
                                      > > Hey, I resemble that remark! When I joined the Militia &
                                      > Minute in Mass.
                                      > > in 1973, I made a great effort to hide the zipper on my
                                      polyester
                                      > breeches
                                      > > (formerly my pants) by making my vinyl wrap around waist coat a
                                      bit
                                      > longer.
                                      > > Topped by my Concord gift shoppe cocked hat (oops, sorry, gift
                                      > shoppe tricorn) I
                                      > > looked snappy. I was ready to repel those who would enslave us
                                      with
                                      > my trusty
                                      > > Mass militia Numerich Arms long rifle, the weapon of choice by
                                      New
                                      > Englanders.
                                      > > Hey, I bet you didn't know you could carry a lot more cartridges
                                      in
                                      > your box
                                      > > if you made them by wrapping paper around a Bic pen, slathered
                                      with
                                      > Elmer's
                                      > > glue. One can fit several of these cartridge 'cigarettes' in
                                      each
                                      > hole in your
                                      > > block!
                                      > >
                                      > > Then I went to work for Sturbridge Village and they made me
                                      do
                                      > something
                                      > > called "authenticity".
                                      > >
                                      > > Now a days my biggest lapse in authenticity is my weight and
                                      > lack of pox
                                      > > marks.
                                      > >
                                      > > John Mills
                                      > > Mott's Artillery
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the
                                      all-
                                      > new AOL at
                                      > > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Jay Howlett
                                      ... I am going to resort to a brand of logic I seldom do.But I suspect that the choice of wearing a wig or a hairpiece would be much like it is today,some guys
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Sep 3, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Rob and Stephanie Friar"
                                        <vastatenavy@...> wrote:
                                        > Hi Rob,
                                        I am going to resort to a brand of logic I seldom do.But I suspect
                                        that the choice of wearing a wig or a hairpiece would be much like it
                                        is today,some guys do some guys don't.If you take a look at
                                        Copleys'"Watson and the shark" one of the oarsmen is quite
                                        bald.Pretty much smoking gun evidence for your sailor impression.I
                                        can see a wig being a real pain to keep up in the field or on
                                        shipboard, so I sort of suspect some guys may have shown up in them
                                        and discarded them pretty quick.Remember that wigs are starting to
                                        decline by the war years,and many of our officers(Wayne,Marion)are
                                        ordering the men to cut their hair short.
                                        Personally I would rather see a guy with short hair or a bald head
                                        than see a crappy wig.I am trying to talk some of the guys who wear
                                        wig in my unit to lose them,partly cos they don't look good,partly
                                        because they are hot. JMH
                                        > List,
                                        >
                                        > While on the subject of hair, I have always wondered something: if
                                        a guy was
                                        > naturally bald at a young age (hey it happens as anyone who knows
                                        me can
                                        > attest.;>), what is the general feeling as to his appearance "in
                                        the field".
                                        > Speaking of the patriot forces (cont. line and militia), would he
                                        have been
                                        > expected to wear a whig at all times? Did they not usually wear
                                        whigs "in
                                        > the field" in that era?
                                        >
                                        > Thanks for your thoughts on this one.
                                        >
                                        > Rob Friar
                                        >
                                        > 7th Va. & HM Sloop OTTER
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > _____
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > <For example I disagree with you about hair styles. A simple short
                                        > men's haircut can easily be explained by the fact that head lice
                                        was
                                        > always rampant in camps on both sides and the treatment involved
                                        > shaving the head, thus you would see many soldiers with hair in
                                        > various stages of regrowth. Simple. And yes I wore my hair long for
                                        > three years (as my friends here will remember at many events)
                                        before
                                        > I had to cut it for employment reasons. It yeilded a 13 inch
                                        ponytail
                                        > (which was donated to a charity which makes wigs for children
                                        > undergoing cancer treatment). I know perfectly well what it is to
                                        > have "correct" hair, and what an annoyance it is to take care of,
                                        and
                                        > what a relief it is to be finally rid of it.>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • Patrick O'Kelley
                                        HOwdy, ... a guy was ... me can ... the field . ... have been ... whigs in ... I post on this subject from time to time. There is nothing wrong with short
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Sep 3, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          HOwdy,

                                          > While on the subject of hair, I have always wondered something: if
                                          a guy was
                                          > naturally bald at a young age (hey it happens as anyone who knows
                                          me can
                                          > attest.;>), what is the general feeling as to his appearance "in
                                          the field".
                                          > Speaking of the patriot forces (cont. line and militia), would he
                                          have been
                                          > expected to wear a whig at all times? Did they not usually wear
                                          whigs "in
                                          > the field" in that era?

                                          I post on this subject from time to time. There is nothing wrong
                                          with short hair, or no hair. I know of two guys, pretty famous, who
                                          were bald due to disease or being tarred. This was Brown, of the
                                          King's Rangers, and Fanning, of the NC Loyalist militia.
                                          I have also come across mentions in the South Carolina orderly
                                          books, both the 1st and 2nd, of how short hair is better. Marion's
                                          orders describes what appears to be either a high and tight, or a
                                          mullet.
                                          Since I just posted these within a month, I won't do it again here.
                                          You don't find many wigs at all in the Continentals, if any.

                                          Patrick O'Kelley
                                          2nd North Carolina Regiment http://www.2nc.org/
                                          The Carolina Brigade http://www.carolinabrigade.org/
                                          Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" and Francis Marion's
                                          Orderly book
                                          Available at http://bluehousetavern.com/
                                        • tedyeat
                                          Double-knit fabric has such a look to it that you can tell something is not right beyond the normal 10 Ft. range. I recall wondering what planet he d come down
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Sep 3, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Double-knit fabric has such a look to it that you can tell something
                                            is not right beyond the normal 10 Ft. range. I recall wondering what
                                            planet he'd come down from. Apparently from no actual group but put
                                            the thing together so he could do "period" civilian.

                                            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Weaver" <weaver05@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I started reenacting in the early days of the Bicentennial, in
                                            1976,
                                            > so I don't have the cache that you guys who started in the 60s
                                            have.
                                            > But you make my first uniform sound so progressive. It was made on
                                            > the Simplicity patterns, completely from double knit polyester.
                                            > Except for the shirt - that was cotton. We wore knee socks and low-
                                            > quarter shoes, with a vinyl buckle on the front held on with an
                                            > elastic band that slipped around the instep of your shoe. Topped
                                            off
                                            > by a 3-cornered hat from a gift shop in Lancaster, PA, I was ready
                                            > to go. That uniform was the most brutally hot set of clothing I
                                            have
                                            > ever worn in my life. (So I had a nice Spanish bota bag to wear as
                                            a
                                            > canteen!) Then I met Ed Arufat and the fine folks in the BAR. The
                                            > hat got to stay, although in greatly modified form. It's great, and
                                            > humbling, to remember that we're all farbs somewhere in our pasts.
                                            > -Rob Weaver, Lochry's Militia
                                            > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "tedyeat" <tedyeat@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > John,
                                            > > Sounds about right. Was the polyester double-knit fabric,
                                            > about
                                            > > like that found in leisure suit coats of the 1970's? This harkens
                                            > me
                                            > > back to the days when the "Authentic Camp" consisted of GYI
                                            > surplus
                                            > > OD pup tents. That was on the way out by around 1973-74. These
                                            and
                                            > > Pop-up campers. What did they use for flags? Were they Nylon?
                                            > >
                                            > > YH&OS,
                                            > > T. Yeatman
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, PBSP@ wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > In a message dated 9/2/2007 12:49:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                            > > > tedyeat@ writes:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > T. Yeatman
                                            > > > P.S. Do you remember the "Polyester Patriots" of New England
                                            and
                                            > > how
                                            > > > they got their name? Ever seen a "Minute Man" clad in 18th
                                            > century
                                            > > > Polyester small clothes..........:-)Another Bicentennialism.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Ted
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Hey, I resemble that remark! When I joined the Militia &
                                            > > Minute in Mass.
                                            > > > in 1973, I made a great effort to hide the zipper on my
                                            > polyester
                                            > > breeches
                                            > > > (formerly my pants) by making my vinyl wrap around waist coat a
                                            > bit
                                            > > longer.
                                            > > > Topped by my Concord gift shoppe cocked hat (oops, sorry, gift
                                            > > shoppe tricorn) I
                                            > > > looked snappy. I was ready to repel those who would enslave us
                                            > with
                                            > > my trusty
                                            > > > Mass militia Numerich Arms long rifle, the weapon of choice by
                                            > New
                                            > > Englanders.
                                            > > > Hey, I bet you didn't know you could carry a lot more
                                            cartridges
                                            > in
                                            > > your box
                                            > > > if you made them by wrapping paper around a Bic pen, slathered
                                            > with
                                            > > Elmer's
                                            > > > glue. One can fit several of these cartridge 'cigarettes' in
                                            > each
                                            > > hole in your
                                            > > > block!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Then I went to work for Sturbridge Village and they made me
                                            > do
                                            > > something
                                            > > > called "authenticity".
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Now a days my biggest lapse in authenticity is my weight
                                            and
                                            > > lack of pox
                                            > > > marks.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > John Mills
                                            > > > Mott's Artillery
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the
                                            > all-
                                            > > new AOL at
                                            > > > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Steve Rayner
                                            Hi Dave; Just from personal experience, I went through a few wax-lined and pitch-lined canteens in my early years. They seem to have rusted out even faster
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Sep 3, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hi Dave;

                                              Just from personal experience, I went through a few wax-lined and
                                              pitch-lined canteens in my early years. They seem to have rusted out even
                                              faster than my more recent bare tin ones. My two current canteens are
                                              unlined. One had been on loan for many years and came back with a pinhole in
                                              the bottom. That is actually easily fixed with just a -dab- of wax or pitch
                                              melted in to keep it going for many more years.

                                              I would recommend the heaviest dipped tin for canteens. I like Carl
                                              Giordano's and will probably seek him out next time I need one.

                                              Back in the old, old days of re-enacting, most makers just used common
                                              commerical tinned iron of rather light gauge. It was thin and didn't hold up
                                              well at all. IMHO, wax and pitch probably crack here and there, let in water
                                              and retain it longer. That might even accelerate rusting.

                                              Nowadays, merchants who offer tin canteens, much to their credit, tend to
                                              use a much heavier tin. and they reinforced the necks for us, too! Merchants
                                              do respond to our needs.

                                              All For What it's Worth and Offered with Best Regards,

                                              Steve Rayner

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                                            • Steve Rayner
                                              Hi Rob; I recall that Thomas Anburey made fun of Americans, - specifically Militia, I think, for their wigs. The militia would include men of professions that
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Sep 3, 2007
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                                                Hi Rob;

                                                I recall that Thomas Anburey made fun of Americans, - specifically Militia,
                                                I think, for their wigs. The militia would include men of professions that
                                                commonly wore wigs as a sort of badge of their status. Men who habitually
                                                wore wigs were reluctant to part with them for fear of getting a chill.

                                                The British thought that wigs were unmilitary in general, though at least
                                                one writer (Bennett Cuthbertson) suggested two ideas: one that wigs be taken
                                                away from recruits, even if he had short hair, and the other, to provide
                                                Soldiers who had thin hair with false queues.

                                                In re-enacting, we wear wigs primarily to simulate natural long hair. There
                                                is of course plenty of evidence for short hair in the era in both armies.

                                                But some units have evaluated the available information on their original
                                                regiment and made policy to wear wigs to simulate natural long hair. It all
                                                depends on the 'impression' the unit wants to present. Overall, we can say
                                                that long hair was the prevailing military fashion of the era and that the
                                                use of a properly styled wig can add a great deal to the overall appearance
                                                of a unit.

                                                As to the American forces, I know a lot less. I suspect that for some
                                                militiamen, wearing a professional wig might be quite appropriate, in the
                                                field or not. I recall reading orders in American books regarding whether or
                                                not long hair was required. As with British re-enactors, American
                                                re-enactors can evaluate their research and decide whether to simulate long
                                                hair with wigs or not.

                                                It all sorts depends on a case-by-case basis, I guess.

                                                Best Regards,

                                                Steve Rayner


                                                >From: "Rob and Stephanie Friar" <vastatenavy@...>
                                                >Reply-To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                >To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                                >Subject: RE: [Revlist] Stainless Steel - was Re: Fabric Covered Canteens
                                                >Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 06:22:21 -0400
                                                >
                                                >List,
                                                >
                                                >While on the subject of hair, I have always wondered something: if a guy
                                                >was
                                                >naturally bald at a young age (hey it happens as anyone who knows me can
                                                >attest.;>), what is the general feeling as to his appearance "in the
                                                >field".
                                                >Speaking of the patriot forces (cont. line and militia), would he have been
                                                >expected to wear a whig at all times? Did they not usually wear whigs "in
                                                >the field" in that era?
                                                >
                                                >Thanks for your thoughts on this one.
                                                >
                                                >Rob Friar
                                                >
                                                >7th Va. & HM Sloop OTTER
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > _____
                                                >
                                                >
                                                ><For example I disagree with you about hair styles. A simple short
                                                >men's haircut can easily be explained by the fact that head lice was
                                                >always rampant in camps on both sides and the treatment involved
                                                >shaving the head, thus you would see many soldiers with hair in
                                                >various stages of regrowth. Simple. And yes I wore my hair long for
                                                >three years (as my friends here will remember at many events) before
                                                >I had to cut it for employment reasons. It yeilded a 13 inch ponytail
                                                >(which was donated to a charity which makes wigs for children
                                                >undergoing cancer treatment). I know perfectly well what it is to
                                                >have "correct" hair, and what an annoyance it is to take care of, and
                                                >what a relief it is to be finally rid of it.>
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >

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