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RE: [Revlist] Identifying Replica Bess

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  • Woolsey, David
    If it s marked Dublin Castle, it s probably Indian, at least the lock is. As far as I know, and I haven t made a study of replica besses, Pedersoli marks all
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 30, 2006
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      If it's marked Dublin Castle, it's probably Indian, at least the lock is. As far as I know, and I haven't made a study of replica besses, Pedersoli marks all of their bess locks with Tower or Grice. The Japanese copied the Pedersoli, including the lock markings, with Dixie offering a limited run of Japanese muskets with locks marked Stowe. Both the Pedersoli and the Japanese muskets usually have serial numbers on the barrels, and I have seen the company name Miroku on some Japanese barrels. The Indian musket distributors offer an option of several different markings on the locks to include Dublin Castle, and their muskets have barrels devoid of marks, or that are marked with replica proof marks.

      YOHS

      Dave Woolsey



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com on behalf of avalonf@...
      Sent: Thu 11/30/2006 9:40 AM
      To: RevList
      Cc:
      Subject: [Revlist] Identifying Replica Bess



      A customer has asked if the musket he has is a Japanese replica or from
      another country. Below is what he sent me. Can anyone identify its origin?

      My gun has no manufacturer's markings on it, it is a 2nd land pattern
      length, no bands with a lock marked "Dublin Castle". How can I tell if
      it is a Japanese or not? It looks like the Japanese muskets have
      different measurements.

      --
      John White
      Avalon Forge
      Baltimore
      "All Manner of Replicas for Living History"
      http://www.avalonforge.com <http://www.avalonforge.com>







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • avalonf@bcpl.net
      Dave Thanks for the input which I have forwarded to the person who asked the question. Just a side note: I believe that the first Besses with the Stowe marked
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 1, 2006
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        Dave

        Thanks for the input which I have forwarded to the person who asked the
        question.

        Just a side note: I believe that the first Besses with the Stowe marked
        locks were sold by Navy Arms. Stowe was not an original lock maker, but
        it was made as a tribute to the memory of Gerry Stowe, Curator of the
        West Point Museum and a founder of the BAR (Brigade of the American
        Revolution).

        --
        John White
        Avalon Forge
        Baltimore
        "All Manner of Replicas for Living History"
        http://www.avalonforge.com





        Woolsey, David wrote:
        >
        > If it's marked Dublin Castle, it's probably Indian, at least the lock
        > is. As far as I know, and I haven't made a study of replica besses,
        > Pedersoli marks all of their bess locks with Tower or Grice. The
        > Japanese copied the Pedersoli, including the lock markings, with Dixie
        > offering a limited run of Japanese muskets with locks marked Stowe.
        > Both the Pedersoli and the Japanese muskets usually have serial
        > numbers on the barrels, and I have seen the company name Miroku on
        > some Japanese barrels. The Indian musket distributors offer an option
        > of several different markings on the locks to include Dublin Castle,
        > and their muskets have barrels devoid of marks, or that are marked
        > with replica proof marks.
        >
        > YOHS
        >
        > Dave Woolsey
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> on
        > behalf of avalonf@... <mailto:avalonf%40bcpl.net>
        > Sent: Thu 11/30/2006 9:40 AM
        > To: RevList
        > Cc:
        > Subject: [Revlist] Identifying Replica Bess
        >
        >
        >
        > A customer has asked if the musket he has is a Japanese replica or from
        > another country. Below is what he sent me. Can anyone identify its origin?
        >
        > My gun has no manufacturer's markings on it, it is a 2nd land pattern
        > length, no bands with a lock marked "Dublin Castle". How can I tell if
        > it is a Japanese or not? It looks like the Japanese muskets have
        > different measurements.
        >
        > --
        > John White
        > Avalon Forge
        > Baltimore
        > "All Manner of Replicas for Living History"
        > http://www.avalonforge.com <http://www.avalonforge.com>
        > <http://www.avalonforge.com <http://www.avalonforge.com>>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
      • David Marquis
        John, They could take the barrel off and sometimes the underside of the barrel (breech end) will have a stamping, indicating it s origin. Corp. Marquis Grants
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 1, 2006
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          John,

          They could take the barrel off and sometimes the underside of the
          barrel (breech end) will have a stamping, indicating it's origin.

          Corp. Marquis
          Grants' Co'y 42d RHR

          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, avalonf@... wrote:
          >
          > Dave
          >
          > Thanks for the input which I have forwarded to the person who asked the
          > question.
          >
          > Just a side note: I believe that the first Besses with the Stowe marked
          > locks were sold by Navy Arms. Stowe was not an original lock maker, but
          > it was made as a tribute to the memory of Gerry Stowe, Curator of the
          > West Point Museum and a founder of the BAR (Brigade of the American
          > Revolution).
          >
          > --
          > John White
          > Avalon Forge
          > Baltimore
          > "All Manner of Replicas for Living History"
          > http://www.avalonforge.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Woolsey, David wrote:
          > >
          > > If it's marked Dublin Castle, it's probably Indian, at least the lock
          > > is. As far as I know, and I haven't made a study of replica besses,
          > > Pedersoli marks all of their bess locks with Tower or Grice. The
          > > Japanese copied the Pedersoli, including the lock markings, with
          Dixie
          > > offering a limited run of Japanese muskets with locks marked Stowe.
          > > Both the Pedersoli and the Japanese muskets usually have serial
          > > numbers on the barrels, and I have seen the company name Miroku on
          > > some Japanese barrels. The Indian musket distributors offer an option
          > > of several different markings on the locks to include Dublin Castle,
          > > and their muskets have barrels devoid of marks, or that are marked
          > > with replica proof marks.
          > >
          > > YOHS
          > >
          > > Dave Woolsey
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> on
          > > behalf of avalonf@... <mailto:avalonf%40bcpl.net>
          > > Sent: Thu 11/30/2006 9:40 AM
          > > To: RevList
          > > Cc:
          > > Subject: [Revlist] Identifying Replica Bess
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > A customer has asked if the musket he has is a Japanese replica or
          from
          > > another country. Below is what he sent me. Can anyone identify its
          origin?
          > >
          > > My gun has no manufacturer's markings on it, it is a 2nd land pattern
          > > length, no bands with a lock marked "Dublin Castle". How can I tell if
          > > it is a Japanese or not? It looks like the Japanese muskets have
          > > different measurements.
          > >
          > > --
          > > John White
          > > Avalon Forge
          > > Baltimore
          > > "All Manner of Replicas for Living History"
          > > http://www.avalonforge.com <http://www.avalonforge.com>
          > > <http://www.avalonforge.com <http://www.avalonforge.com>>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Jay Callaham
          ... Correct, John. The late Val Forgette of Navy Arms had those made up for one year only - in 1976 - in memory of the then recently-departed Gerry
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 1, 2006
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            > From: avalonf@...
            > Date: 2006/12/01 Fri AM 08:24:02 EST
            > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [Revlist] Identifying Replica Bess
            >
            > Dave
            >
            > Thanks for the input which I have forwarded to the person who asked the
            > question.
            >
            > Just a side note: I believe that the first Besses with the Stowe marked
            > locks were sold by Navy Arms. Stowe was not an original lock maker, but
            > it was made as a tribute to the memory of Gerry Stowe, Curator of the
            > West Point Museum and a founder of the BAR (Brigade of the American
            > Revolution).

            <snip>

            Correct, John. The late Val Forgette of Navy Arms had those made up for one year only - in 1976 - in memory of the then recently-departed Gerry Stowe. They were kit guns ($125.00 per pretty decent kit). The lockplate was "Stowe 1775." The British stopped putting dates on locks after 1764, so there is NO period lockplate dated after that time. I've owned two of the "Stowe" firelocks - still have one of them.

            I'm pretty sure that the "Dublin Castle" locks are on some of the Loyalist Arms firelocks.

            Cheers!

            Jay
            Coldm Regt

            Jay Callaham
            callaham@...

            "If you do not receive this, it must have miscarried, therefore I beg you write and let me know." - - - Sir Boyle Roche, 18th century Member of the Irish Parliament

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