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Re: 225 years ago today - Georgetown (reality versus myth)

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  • banner1780
    ... Simcoe s account of the Saunder s troop at Georgetown. ... true. ... Carolina ... Marion sent ... on a ... to ... Queen s ... around ... from ... and let
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 1, 2006
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      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Patrick J O'Kelley <goober.com@j...>
      wrote:
      >What is your source for the "true" story? It is certainly not in
      Simcoe's account of the Saunder's troop at Georgetown.



      > Howdy,
      > Here is two versions of one story. One is myth, and one is
      true.
      > First the true story:
      >
      > Georgetown, South
      Carolina
      >
      > 27 December 1780
      >
      > To determine the strength of the British forces in Georgetown
      Marion sent
      > Peter Horry and, Captain Baxter, with thirty men from Indiantown,
      on a
      > reconnaissance.
      > In Georgetown Marion's men set up an ambush and waited for an enemy
      to
      > appear. Cornet Meritt was commanding a troop of green-coated
      Queen's
      > Rangers in Georgetown. Meritt had been sent into the countryside
      around
      > Georgetown to provide cover for some slaves, which were sent to the
      > neighboring plantations to bring back cattle that had wandered away
      from
      > the garrison.
      > About midmorning Meritt, another officer and a squad of the Queen's
      > Rangers were escorting two young ladies past Horry's ambush. Horry
      > decided not to ambush these men, since the women were with them,
      and let
      > them pass. Horry and his men then went to a house to seek a late
      > breakfast because they had not eaten in thirty-six hours. They
      rode to
      > White's Plantation and discovered that inside the house was Mrs.
      White,
      > her daughter, and the two ladies that had been escorted by the
      Rangers.
      > Mrs. White asked Horry what he wanted, and he replied that he
      wanted food
      > and drink for his men. The family begged Horry to go away because
      they
      > were all poor and had no provisions. Horry was confused, because
      he knew
      > these people were Marion supporters, so he followed Mrs. White to
      the
      > kitchen and asked what the matter was. She told Horry that the two
      women
      > in the room were Tories, and that if Horry wanted anything, he had
      to
      > pretend to take it by force. This was a situation that Marion's
      men were
      > used to, because if the people appeared too friendly the British
      may burn
      > their house down and place the inhabitants in jail.
      > Horry had gone back into the room with the Tory women, when the
      sentries
      > outside fired a warning shot and came running back to the house.
      They
      > told Horry that the Queen's Rangers were charging down the road.
      The
      > partisans quickly mounted their horses and charged the Rangers. The
      > Rangers saw they were outnumbered, and fled back towards
      Georgetown.
      > Cornet Meritt stayed in the rear, fighting off each of Horry's men
      as
      > they caught up with him. Captain Baxter fired pistols at Meritt,
      but
      > missed. Captain Postelle and another partisan came at Meritt with
      > swords, but they were driven back. Meritt had two horses killed
      under
      > him, and was so stunned by the fall of the last one that he was
      left for
      > dead. Marion's men took his boots, helmet and weapons. When he
      > recovered his senses he escaped into the swamp and hid.
      > Two of the prisoners captured by Horry were both men who had been
      in the
      > 3rd South Carolina Regiment. They said that they had enlisted from
      the
      > prison ship in Charlestown so that they would have a better chance
      to
      > escape.
      >
      > OK, now the myth. There is a version of this story has been
      distorted
      > due to the fabrications of Weems and his fictional account of
      Marion's
      > life in "The Life of General Francis Marion". Weems wrote that
      Horry's
      > horsemen chased the outnumbered British cavalry into Georgetown,
      where
      > there was a large British garrison. Major Ganey's Loyalists dashed
      out
      > to meet Horry's dragoons, who did not slow down their pursuit.
      Horry
      > found himself alone in a section of woods, when he came across
      Captain
      > Lewis, one of Ganey's men. Horry was only armed with a small
      sword, but
      > Lewis had a musket. Lewis fired, hitting Horry's horse and knocking
      > Horry from the saddle. As Lewis fired his musket at Horry, a shot
      from
      > the woods knocked him from his horse. A boy named Gwin, who had
      been
      > watching the fight from the woods, had killed Lewis. Weems used a
      > seperate incident that happened on 15 November, at White's
      Plantation,
      > where "Otterskin" Lewis was wounded, as the basis for this story.
      Weems
      > continued by telling how Ganey suspected an ambush and had his men
      turn
      > and run back to the safety of Georgetown.
      > With Horry was Sergeant McDonald, who chased Major Ganey
      for two
      > miles on his horse Fox, until McDonald had almost caught up to him.
      > McDonald was one of the Maryland Continentals that Marion rescued
      from
      > the British. Instead of going back to the Maryland Line, he stayed
      with
      > Marion. Weems wrote that a rich Tory gave McDonald a horse called
      Selim,
      > when McDonald fooled the Tory into thinking that he was British.
      This is
      > another incorrect statement from Weems. Peter Horry wrote, "This
      Horses
      > Name was Fox. McDonald was a private man. A Scotch Man."
      > Weems continued with the Georgetown story, writing that one
      of
      > Ganey's men threw himself in the way, but McDonald fired his
      carbine at
      > the man. Realizing that the carbine was unloaded, and he couldn't
      reach
      > him with his sword, he took his musket and speared Ganey in the
      back and
      > out through the chest with his bayonet. When McDonald attempted to
      free
      > the weapon, the bayonet remained in Ganey. Ganey rode up to the
      > redoubts, blood streaming from his wounds, screaming and clawing at
      his
      > side. Ganey supposedly and amazingly recovered from his wounds.
      > Horry wrote that Weems had it wrong again, and in this action it was
      > Sergeant Cryer and not McDonald, who was on this raid. He also
      wrote
      > that no British were killed, and sixteen were captured. Only Cornet
      > Merrit and a sergeant escaped. Unfortunately most of Marion's
      history
      > has been obscured by the sensational fiction of Weems, and even
      today
      > there are historical highway markers in Georgetown, South Carolina,
      that
      > repeat this fantasy of Weems.
      >
      > Patrick O'Kelley http://www.2nc.org/
      > Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" The Revolutionary War
      in the
      > Carolinas
      > Volume One 1771-1779
      http://www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
      > Volume Two 1780
      > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1707.html
      > Volume Three 1781
      > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1965.html
      > Volume Four 1782
      > http://www.booklocker.com/books/2167.html
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Gary Corrado
      Oh yes it is. Besides, there are other primary accounts, besides Simcoe s. Try some of the testimonials written by other Loyalists of their war experiences,
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 1, 2006
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        Oh yes it is.
        Besides, there are other primary accounts, besides Simcoe's.
        Try some of the testimonials written by other Loyalists of their war
        experiences, and ditto for the American participants.
        Years ago I even came across the journal of a QR officer on the
        Arnold expeditioin to Virginia. Very illuminating-talk about second
        hand smoke.They burned a hell of a lot of tobacco.Wonder if any of
        the QR's died of lung cancer

        Gary Corrado, QR
        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "banner1780" <banner1780@y...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Patrick J O'Kelley
        <goober.com@j...>
        > wrote:
        > >What is your source for the "true" story? It is certainly not in
        > Simcoe's account of the Saunder's troop at Georgetown.
        >
        >
        >
        > > Howdy,
        > > Here is two versions of one story. One is myth, and one
        is
        > true.
        > > First the true story:
        > >
        > > Georgetown, South
        > Carolina
        > >
        > > 27 December 1780
        > >
        > > To determine the strength of the British forces in Georgetown
        > Marion sent
        > > Peter Horry and, Captain Baxter, with thirty men from Indiantown,
        > on a
        > > reconnaissance.
        > > In Georgetown Marion's men set up an ambush and waited for an
        enemy
        > to
        > > appear. Cornet Meritt was commanding a troop of green-coated
        > Queen's
        > > Rangers in Georgetown. Meritt had been sent into the countryside
        > around
        > > Georgetown to provide cover for some slaves, which were sent to
        the
        > > neighboring plantations to bring back cattle that had wandered
        away
        > from
        > > the garrison.
        > > About midmorning Meritt, another officer and a squad of the
        Queen's
        > > Rangers were escorting two young ladies past Horry's ambush.
        Horry
        > > decided not to ambush these men, since the women were with them,
        > and let
        > > them pass. Horry and his men then went to a house to seek a late
        > > breakfast because they had not eaten in thirty-six hours. They
        > rode to
        > > White's Plantation and discovered that inside the house was Mrs.
        > White,
        > > her daughter, and the two ladies that had been escorted by the
        > Rangers.
        > > Mrs. White asked Horry what he wanted, and he replied that he
        > wanted food
        > > and drink for his men. The family begged Horry to go away
        because
        > they
        > > were all poor and had no provisions. Horry was confused, because
        > he knew
        > > these people were Marion supporters, so he followed Mrs. White to
        > the
        > > kitchen and asked what the matter was. She told Horry that the
        two
        > women
        > > in the room were Tories, and that if Horry wanted anything, he
        had
        > to
        > > pretend to take it by force. This was a situation that Marion's
        > men were
        > > used to, because if the people appeared too friendly the British
        > may burn
        > > their house down and place the inhabitants in jail.
        > > Horry had gone back into the room with the Tory women, when the
        > sentries
        > > outside fired a warning shot and came running back to the house.
        > They
        > > told Horry that the Queen's Rangers were charging down the road.
        > The
        > > partisans quickly mounted their horses and charged the Rangers.
        The
        > > Rangers saw they were outnumbered, and fled back towards
        > Georgetown.
        > > Cornet Meritt stayed in the rear, fighting off each of Horry's
        men
        > as
        > > they caught up with him. Captain Baxter fired pistols at Meritt,
        > but
        > > missed. Captain Postelle and another partisan came at Meritt with
        > > swords, but they were driven back. Meritt had two horses killed
        > under
        > > him, and was so stunned by the fall of the last one that he was
        > left for
        > > dead. Marion's men took his boots, helmet and weapons. When he
        > > recovered his senses he escaped into the swamp and hid.
        > > Two of the prisoners captured by Horry were both men who had been
        > in the
        > > 3rd South Carolina Regiment. They said that they had enlisted
        from
        > the
        > > prison ship in Charlestown so that they would have a better
        chance
        > to
        > > escape.
        > >
        > > OK, now the myth. There is a version of this story has been
        > distorted
        > > due to the fabrications of Weems and his fictional account of
        > Marion's
        > > life in "The Life of General Francis Marion". Weems wrote that
        > Horry's
        > > horsemen chased the outnumbered British cavalry into Georgetown,
        > where
        > > there was a large British garrison. Major Ganey's Loyalists
        dashed
        > out
        > > to meet Horry's dragoons, who did not slow down their pursuit.
        > Horry
        > > found himself alone in a section of woods, when he came across
        > Captain
        > > Lewis, one of Ganey's men. Horry was only armed with a small
        > sword, but
        > > Lewis had a musket. Lewis fired, hitting Horry's horse and
        knocking
        > > Horry from the saddle. As Lewis fired his musket at Horry, a
        shot
        > from
        > > the woods knocked him from his horse. A boy named Gwin, who had
        > been
        > > watching the fight from the woods, had killed Lewis. Weems used a
        > > seperate incident that happened on 15 November, at White's
        > Plantation,
        > > where "Otterskin" Lewis was wounded, as the basis for this
        story.
        > Weems
        > > continued by telling how Ganey suspected an ambush and had his
        men
        > turn
        > > and run back to the safety of Georgetown.
        > > With Horry was Sergeant McDonald, who chased Major Ganey
        > for two
        > > miles on his horse Fox, until McDonald had almost caught up to
        him.
        > > McDonald was one of the Maryland Continentals that Marion rescued
        > from
        > > the British. Instead of going back to the Maryland Line, he
        stayed
        > with
        > > Marion. Weems wrote that a rich Tory gave McDonald a horse called
        > Selim,
        > > when McDonald fooled the Tory into thinking that he was British.
        > This is
        > > another incorrect statement from Weems. Peter Horry wrote, "This
        > Horses
        > > Name was Fox. McDonald was a private man. A Scotch Man."
        > > Weems continued with the Georgetown story, writing that
        one
        > of
        > > Ganey's men threw himself in the way, but McDonald fired his
        > carbine at
        > > the man. Realizing that the carbine was unloaded, and he
        couldn't
        > reach
        > > him with his sword, he took his musket and speared Ganey in the
        > back and
        > > out through the chest with his bayonet. When McDonald attempted
        to
        > free
        > > the weapon, the bayonet remained in Ganey. Ganey rode up to the
        > > redoubts, blood streaming from his wounds, screaming and clawing
        at
        > his
        > > side. Ganey supposedly and amazingly recovered from his
        wounds.
        > > Horry wrote that Weems had it wrong again, and in this action it
        was
        > > Sergeant Cryer and not McDonald, who was on this raid. He also
        > wrote
        > > that no British were killed, and sixteen were captured. Only
        Cornet
        > > Merrit and a sergeant escaped. Unfortunately most of Marion's
        > history
        > > has been obscured by the sensational fiction of Weems, and even
        > today
        > > there are historical highway markers in Georgetown, South
        Carolina,
        > that
        > > repeat this fantasy of Weems.
        > >
        > > Patrick O'Kelley http://www.2nc.org/
        > > Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" The Revolutionary War
        > in the
        > > Carolinas
        > > Volume One 1771-1779
        > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
        > > Volume Two 1780
        > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1707.html
        > > Volume Three 1781
        > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1965.html
        > > Volume Four 1782
        > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/2167.html
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        >
      • rgrokelley
        Howdy, ... I got my information from two guys who were there, Horry and William Dobein James. Always go with a primary source. Simcoe also mentions it, page
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 1, 2006
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          Howdy,

          >What is your source for the "true" story? It is certainly not in
          > Simcoe's account of the Saunder's troop at Georgetown.

          I got my information from two guys who were there, Horry and
          William Dobein James. Always go with a primary source. Simcoe also
          mentions it, page 243-244 of the Arno reprint.

          Patrick O'Kelley http://www.2nc.org/
          Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" The Revolutionary War in
          the Carolinas
          Available at Volume One 1771-1779
          http://www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
          Volume Two 1780
          http://www.booklocker.com/books/1707.html
          Volume Three 1781
          http://www.booklocker.com/books/1965.html
        • ehrmanngm
          Gary, This is as interesting as it is little known. I have some QR questions for you or anyone else whom may be in the know ? Of interest to me is how were
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 3, 2006
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            Gary,
            This is as interesting as it is little known. I have some QR
            questions for you or anyone else whom may "be in the know"?
            Of interest to me is how were the QR's attired and deployed during
            these and any similar operationS? Did the Grenadier Company stay
            with the Regiment or was it with other Grenadier Companies in a
            Gren. BN? Did the Grens. actually wear their bearskins in the
            field, if not what? Did the Grens. wear a Regimental Caot with
            Black facings instead of a "coatee" in the field? If present, were
            the Grens. deployed as just another line company? These questions
            could be used for the Highland Co. too? Also, were kilts worn in
            the field, what was the plaid; McNabb or Govt. set? How was this
            company employed too?
            Thanks for your time.

            Cheers, Greg Ehrmann

            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Corrado" <qrranger@y...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Oh yes it is.
            > Besides, there are other primary accounts, besides Simcoe's.
            > Try some of the testimonials written by other Loyalists of their
            war
            > experiences, and ditto for the American participants.
            > Years ago I even came across the journal of a QR officer on the
            > Arnold expeditioin to Virginia. Very illuminating-talk about
            second
            > hand smoke.They burned a hell of a lot of tobacco.Wonder if any of
            > the QR's died of lung cancer
            >
            > Gary Corrado, QR
            > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "banner1780" <banner1780@y...>
            wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Patrick J O'Kelley
            > <goober.com@j...>
            > > wrote:
            > > >What is your source for the "true" story? It is certainly not
            in
            > > Simcoe's account of the Saunder's troop at Georgetown.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > > Howdy,
            > > > Here is two versions of one story. One is myth, and
            one
            > is
            > > true.
            > > > First the true story:
            > > >
            > > > Georgetown, South
            > > Carolina
            > > >
            > > > 27 December 1780
            > > >
            > > > To determine the strength of the British forces in Georgetown
            > > Marion sent
            > > > Peter Horry and, Captain Baxter, with thirty men from
            Indiantown,
            > > on a
            > > > reconnaissance.
            > > > In Georgetown Marion's men set up an ambush and waited for an
            > enemy
            > > to
            > > > appear. Cornet Meritt was commanding a troop of green-coated
            > > Queen's
            > > > Rangers in Georgetown. Meritt had been sent into the
            countryside
            > > around
            > > > Georgetown to provide cover for some slaves, which were sent
            to
            > the
            > > > neighboring plantations to bring back cattle that had wandered
            > away
            > > from
            > > > the garrison.
            > > > About midmorning Meritt, another officer and a squad of the
            > Queen's
            > > > Rangers were escorting two young ladies past Horry's ambush.
            > Horry
            > > > decided not to ambush these men, since the women were with
            them,
            > > and let
            > > > them pass. Horry and his men then went to a house to seek a
            late
            > > > breakfast because they had not eaten in thirty-six hours.
            They
            > > rode to
            > > > White's Plantation and discovered that inside the house was
            Mrs.
            > > White,
            > > > her daughter, and the two ladies that had been escorted by the
            > > Rangers.
            > > > Mrs. White asked Horry what he wanted, and he replied that he
            > > wanted food
            > > > and drink for his men. The family begged Horry to go away
            > because
            > > they
            > > > were all poor and had no provisions. Horry was confused,
            because
            > > he knew
            > > > these people were Marion supporters, so he followed Mrs. White
            to
            > > the
            > > > kitchen and asked what the matter was. She told Horry that
            the
            > two
            > > women
            > > > in the room were Tories, and that if Horry wanted anything, he
            > had
            > > to
            > > > pretend to take it by force. This was a situation that
            Marion's
            > > men were
            > > > used to, because if the people appeared too friendly the
            British
            > > may burn
            > > > their house down and place the inhabitants in jail.
            > > > Horry had gone back into the room with the Tory women, when
            the
            > > sentries
            > > > outside fired a warning shot and came running back to the
            house.
            > > They
            > > > told Horry that the Queen's Rangers were charging down the
            road.
            > > The
            > > > partisans quickly mounted their horses and charged the
            Rangers.
            > The
            > > > Rangers saw they were outnumbered, and fled back towards
            > > Georgetown.
            > > > Cornet Meritt stayed in the rear, fighting off each of Horry's
            > men
            > > as
            > > > they caught up with him. Captain Baxter fired pistols at
            Meritt,
            > > but
            > > > missed. Captain Postelle and another partisan came at Meritt
            with
            > > > swords, but they were driven back. Meritt had two horses
            killed
            > > under
            > > > him, and was so stunned by the fall of the last one that he
            was
            > > left for
            > > > dead. Marion's men took his boots, helmet and weapons. When
            he
            > > > recovered his senses he escaped into the swamp and hid.
            > > > Two of the prisoners captured by Horry were both men who had
            been
            > > in the
            > > > 3rd South Carolina Regiment. They said that they had enlisted
            > from
            > > the
            > > > prison ship in Charlestown so that they would have a better
            > chance
            > > to
            > > > escape.
            > > >
            > > > OK, now the myth. There is a version of this story has been
            > > distorted
            > > > due to the fabrications of Weems and his fictional account of
            > > Marion's
            > > > life in "The Life of General Francis Marion". Weems wrote
            that
            > > Horry's
            > > > horsemen chased the outnumbered British cavalry into
            Georgetown,
            > > where
            > > > there was a large British garrison. Major Ganey's Loyalists
            > dashed
            > > out
            > > > to meet Horry's dragoons, who did not slow down their
            pursuit.
            > > Horry
            > > > found himself alone in a section of woods, when he came across
            > > Captain
            > > > Lewis, one of Ganey's men. Horry was only armed with a small
            > > sword, but
            > > > Lewis had a musket. Lewis fired, hitting Horry's horse and
            > knocking
            > > > Horry from the saddle. As Lewis fired his musket at Horry, a
            > shot
            > > from
            > > > the woods knocked him from his horse. A boy named Gwin, who
            had
            > > been
            > > > watching the fight from the woods, had killed Lewis. Weems
            used a
            > > > seperate incident that happened on 15 November, at White's
            > > Plantation,
            > > > where "Otterskin" Lewis was wounded, as the basis for this
            > story.
            > > Weems
            > > > continued by telling how Ganey suspected an ambush and had his
            > men
            > > turn
            > > > and run back to the safety of Georgetown.
            > > > With Horry was Sergeant McDonald, who chased Major
            Ganey
            > > for two
            > > > miles on his horse Fox, until McDonald had almost caught up to
            > him.
            > > > McDonald was one of the Maryland Continentals that Marion
            rescued
            > > from
            > > > the British. Instead of going back to the Maryland Line, he
            > stayed
            > > with
            > > > Marion. Weems wrote that a rich Tory gave McDonald a horse
            called
            > > Selim,
            > > > when McDonald fooled the Tory into thinking that he was
            British.
            > > This is
            > > > another incorrect statement from Weems. Peter Horry
            wrote, "This
            > > Horses
            > > > Name was Fox. McDonald was a private man. A Scotch Man."
            > > > Weems continued with the Georgetown story, writing
            that
            > one
            > > of
            > > > Ganey's men threw himself in the way, but McDonald fired his
            > > carbine at
            > > > the man. Realizing that the carbine was unloaded, and he
            > couldn't
            > > reach
            > > > him with his sword, he took his musket and speared Ganey in
            the
            > > back and
            > > > out through the chest with his bayonet. When McDonald
            attempted
            > to
            > > free
            > > > the weapon, the bayonet remained in Ganey. Ganey rode up to
            the
            > > > redoubts, blood streaming from his wounds, screaming and
            clawing
            > at
            > > his
            > > > side. Ganey supposedly and amazingly recovered from his
            > wounds.
            > > > Horry wrote that Weems had it wrong again, and in this action
            it
            > was
            > > > Sergeant Cryer and not McDonald, who was on this raid. He
            also
            > > wrote
            > > > that no British were killed, and sixteen were captured. Only
            > Cornet
            > > > Merrit and a sergeant escaped. Unfortunately most of Marion's
            > > history
            > > > has been obscured by the sensational fiction of Weems, and
            even
            > > today
            > > > there are historical highway markers in Georgetown, South
            > Carolina,
            > > that
            > > > repeat this fantasy of Weems.
            > > >
            > > > Patrick O'Kelley http://www.2nc.org/
            > > > Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" The Revolutionary
            War
            > > in the
            > > > Carolinas
            > > > Volume One 1771-1779
            > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
            > > > Volume Two 1780
            > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1707.html
            > > > Volume Three 1781
            > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1965.html
            > > > Volume Four 1782
            > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/2167.html
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Gary Corrado
            If you see the famous Murray paintings, they show 4 enlisted(not officers) of the Light, Rifle, Grenadier, and Hussar companies. Those, plus clothing returns,
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 3, 2006
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              If you see the famous Murray paintings, they show 4 enlisted(not
              officers) of the Light, Rifle, Grenadier, and Hussar companies.
              Those, plus clothing returns, help flesh out their appearance. That
              said, it appears their uniform changed at least 3 times, depending on
              what year of the AWI you refer to.
              ALL the enlisted in the Murray paintings(c.1780) wore green-faced-
              green.No black facings.
              Post-AWI paintings show several QR officers in regimentals with black
              facings.Their commander, however, posed for a painting in his AWI
              coat, again with black facings. Interestingly, ALL of the officers
              coats have the same laced buttonholes, with the buttons arranged in
              pairs.\That is because a toast recorded in a diary of a QR officer
              heard the officers refer to the "Second battalion" of the QR's.
              apparently after Rogers Rangers.
              The Grenadier company stayed with the Regiment, and was detached only
              on a few specific instances, but in company with other companies of
              the Regiment, as at Monmouth where they opened the battle in company
              with the Hussar company. A rebel eyewitness account refers to their
              being attacked by "mounted Grenadiers and grenadiers" referring to
              the similar headress of tall busby-type headgear of these 2 companies.
              So yes, the Grenadiers wore tall busby type bearskins, with the
              silver moon insignia on the front(shown clearly in the Murray
              painting). They wore a green waistcoat, a short regimenetal(a la
              Light infantry style), and the coats had the winged lappet style
              usually seen on Continental coats.All green.I do not believe they
              wore short swords, or hangers.Their roster was completed during the
              winter of Valley Forge, where many deserters came to the post manned
              by the QR's, and joined up. Many were Irish.
              The McNab tartan for the Highland company pictured in the Company of
              Military Historian print was a mistake.The author at the time found a
              McNab in the roster of that company, and assumed the whole company
              wore McNab tartans. Given their close campaigning with the 42nd and
              71st regiments, and being a company sized unit, I doubt anyone could
              make a case for anything but the goverrnment sett kilt for them.
              Simcoe used the Highland company as his personal guard, and were
              occasionally detached as lights.
              Check out our website for some of the uniforms.

              Gary Corrado, QR
              www.queensrangers.com


              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "ehrmanngm" <gregory.ehrmann@R...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Gary,
              > This is as interesting as it is little known. I have some QR
              > questions for you or anyone else whom may "be in the know"?
              > Of interest to me is how were the QR's attired and deployed
              during
              > these and any similar operationS? Did the Grenadier Company stay
              > with the Regiment or was it with other Grenadier Companies in a
              > Gren. BN? Did the Grens. actually wear their bearskins in the
              > field, if not what? Did the Grens. wear a Regimental Caot with
              > Black facings instead of a "coatee" in the field? If present, were
              > the Grens. deployed as just another line company? These questions
              > could be used for the Highland Co. too? Also, were kilts worn in
              > the field, what was the plaid; McNabb or Govt. set? How was this
              > company employed too?
              > Thanks for your time.
              >
              > Cheers, Greg Ehrmann
              >
              > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Corrado" <qrranger@y...>
              wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Oh yes it is.
              > > Besides, there are other primary accounts, besides Simcoe's.
              > > Try some of the testimonials written by other Loyalists of their
              > war
              > > experiences, and ditto for the American participants.
              > > Years ago I even came across the journal of a QR officer on the
              > > Arnold expeditioin to Virginia. Very illuminating-talk about
              > second
              > > hand smoke.They burned a hell of a lot of tobacco.Wonder if any
              of
              > > the QR's died of lung cancer
              > >
              > > Gary Corrado, QR
              > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "banner1780" <banner1780@y...>
              > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Patrick J O'Kelley
              > > <goober.com@j...>
              > > > wrote:
              > > > >What is your source for the "true" story? It is certainly not
              > in
              > > > Simcoe's account of the Saunder's troop at Georgetown.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > > Howdy,
              > > > > Here is two versions of one story. One is myth, and
              > one
              > > is
              > > > true.
              > > > > First the true story:
              > > > >
              > > > > Georgetown, South
              > > > Carolina
              > > > >
              > > > > 27 December 1780
              > > > >
              > > > > To determine the strength of the British forces in Georgetown
              > > > Marion sent
              > > > > Peter Horry and, Captain Baxter, with thirty men from
              > Indiantown,
              > > > on a
              > > > > reconnaissance.
              > > > > In Georgetown Marion's men set up an ambush and waited for an
              > > enemy
              > > > to
              > > > > appear. Cornet Meritt was commanding a troop of green-coated
              > > > Queen's
              > > > > Rangers in Georgetown. Meritt had been sent into the
              > countryside
              > > > around
              > > > > Georgetown to provide cover for some slaves, which were sent
              > to
              > > the
              > > > > neighboring plantations to bring back cattle that had
              wandered
              > > away
              > > > from
              > > > > the garrison.
              > > > > About midmorning Meritt, another officer and a squad of the
              > > Queen's
              > > > > Rangers were escorting two young ladies past Horry's ambush.
              > > Horry
              > > > > decided not to ambush these men, since the women were with
              > them,
              > > > and let
              > > > > them pass. Horry and his men then went to a house to seek a
              > late
              > > > > breakfast because they had not eaten in thirty-six hours.
              > They
              > > > rode to
              > > > > White's Plantation and discovered that inside the house was
              > Mrs.
              > > > White,
              > > > > her daughter, and the two ladies that had been escorted by
              the
              > > > Rangers.
              > > > > Mrs. White asked Horry what he wanted, and he replied that he
              > > > wanted food
              > > > > and drink for his men. The family begged Horry to go away
              > > because
              > > > they
              > > > > were all poor and had no provisions. Horry was confused,
              > because
              > > > he knew
              > > > > these people were Marion supporters, so he followed Mrs.
              White
              > to
              > > > the
              > > > > kitchen and asked what the matter was. She told Horry that
              > the
              > > two
              > > > women
              > > > > in the room were Tories, and that if Horry wanted anything,
              he
              > > had
              > > > to
              > > > > pretend to take it by force. This was a situation that
              > Marion's
              > > > men were
              > > > > used to, because if the people appeared too friendly the
              > British
              > > > may burn
              > > > > their house down and place the inhabitants in jail.
              > > > > Horry had gone back into the room with the Tory women, when
              > the
              > > > sentries
              > > > > outside fired a warning shot and came running back to the
              > house.
              > > > They
              > > > > told Horry that the Queen's Rangers were charging down the
              > road.
              > > > The
              > > > > partisans quickly mounted their horses and charged the
              > Rangers.
              > > The
              > > > > Rangers saw they were outnumbered, and fled back towards
              > > > Georgetown.
              > > > > Cornet Meritt stayed in the rear, fighting off each of
              Horry's
              > > men
              > > > as
              > > > > they caught up with him. Captain Baxter fired pistols at
              > Meritt,
              > > > but
              > > > > missed. Captain Postelle and another partisan came at Meritt
              > with
              > > > > swords, but they were driven back. Meritt had two horses
              > killed
              > > > under
              > > > > him, and was so stunned by the fall of the last one that he
              > was
              > > > left for
              > > > > dead. Marion's men took his boots, helmet and weapons. When
              > he
              > > > > recovered his senses he escaped into the swamp and hid.
              > > > > Two of the prisoners captured by Horry were both men who had
              > been
              > > > in the
              > > > > 3rd South Carolina Regiment. They said that they had enlisted
              > > from
              > > > the
              > > > > prison ship in Charlestown so that they would have a better
              > > chance
              > > > to
              > > > > escape.
              > > > >
              > > > > OK, now the myth. There is a version of this story has been
              > > > distorted
              > > > > due to the fabrications of Weems and his fictional account of
              > > > Marion's
              > > > > life in "The Life of General Francis Marion". Weems wrote
              > that
              > > > Horry's
              > > > > horsemen chased the outnumbered British cavalry into
              > Georgetown,
              > > > where
              > > > > there was a large British garrison. Major Ganey's Loyalists
              > > dashed
              > > > out
              > > > > to meet Horry's dragoons, who did not slow down their
              > pursuit.
              > > > Horry
              > > > > found himself alone in a section of woods, when he came
              across
              > > > Captain
              > > > > Lewis, one of Ganey's men. Horry was only armed with a small
              > > > sword, but
              > > > > Lewis had a musket. Lewis fired, hitting Horry's horse and
              > > knocking
              > > > > Horry from the saddle. As Lewis fired his musket at Horry, a
              > > shot
              > > > from
              > > > > the woods knocked him from his horse. A boy named Gwin, who
              > had
              > > > been
              > > > > watching the fight from the woods, had killed Lewis. Weems
              > used a
              > > > > seperate incident that happened on 15 November, at White's
              > > > Plantation,
              > > > > where "Otterskin" Lewis was wounded, as the basis for this
              > > story.
              > > > Weems
              > > > > continued by telling how Ganey suspected an ambush and had
              his
              > > men
              > > > turn
              > > > > and run back to the safety of Georgetown.
              > > > > With Horry was Sergeant McDonald, who chased Major
              > Ganey
              > > > for two
              > > > > miles on his horse Fox, until McDonald had almost caught up
              to
              > > him.
              > > > > McDonald was one of the Maryland Continentals that Marion
              > rescued
              > > > from
              > > > > the British. Instead of going back to the Maryland Line, he
              > > stayed
              > > > with
              > > > > Marion. Weems wrote that a rich Tory gave McDonald a horse
              > called
              > > > Selim,
              > > > > when McDonald fooled the Tory into thinking that he was
              > British.
              > > > This is
              > > > > another incorrect statement from Weems. Peter Horry
              > wrote, "This
              > > > Horses
              > > > > Name was Fox. McDonald was a private man. A Scotch Man."
              > > > > Weems continued with the Georgetown story, writing
              > that
              > > one
              > > > of
              > > > > Ganey's men threw himself in the way, but McDonald fired his
              > > > carbine at
              > > > > the man. Realizing that the carbine was unloaded, and he
              > > couldn't
              > > > reach
              > > > > him with his sword, he took his musket and speared Ganey in
              > the
              > > > back and
              > > > > out through the chest with his bayonet. When McDonald
              > attempted
              > > to
              > > > free
              > > > > the weapon, the bayonet remained in Ganey. Ganey rode up to
              > the
              > > > > redoubts, blood streaming from his wounds, screaming and
              > clawing
              > > at
              > > > his
              > > > > side. Ganey supposedly and amazingly recovered from his
              > > wounds.
              > > > > Horry wrote that Weems had it wrong again, and in this action
              > it
              > > was
              > > > > Sergeant Cryer and not McDonald, who was on this raid. He
              > also
              > > > wrote
              > > > > that no British were killed, and sixteen were captured. Only
              > > Cornet
              > > > > Merrit and a sergeant escaped. Unfortunately most of
              Marion's
              > > > history
              > > > > has been obscured by the sensational fiction of Weems, and
              > even
              > > > today
              > > > > there are historical highway markers in Georgetown, South
              > > Carolina,
              > > > that
              > > > > repeat this fantasy of Weems.
              > > > >
              > > > > Patrick O'Kelley http://www.2nc.org/
              > > > > Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" The Revolutionary
              > War
              > > > in the
              > > > > Carolinas
              > > > > Volume One 1771-1779
              > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
              > > > > Volume Two 1780
              > > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1707.html
              > > > > Volume Three 1781
              > > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1965.html
              > > > > Volume Four 1782
              > > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/2167.html
              > > > >
              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • bdtm2004
              Greg, Further to Gary s answers, it seems likely that green-faced-green was the uniform throughout the unit s active period (ie from the Philadelphia campaign
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 3, 2006
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                Greg,

                Further to Gary's answers, it seems likely that green-faced-green was
                the uniform throughout the unit's active period (ie from the
                Philadelphia campaign until their capture at Yorktown in 1781). The
                main body of the regiment - the battalion companies - were probably
                dressed similarly to the grenadiers, but without the latter's
                distinctions. By the way, the centre companies were not riflemen, as
                is sometimes stated - that is a mistake made by Lefferts whilst he
                was researching the unit and got it confused it with a later version
                raised in Canada.

                Simcoe refers to leather caps replacing poor quality "contract hats"
                (usually assumed to be either laced tricornes, or part-cocked -
                ie "slouch" - hats) around 1780-81. Also about that time, part of
                the regiment was supposed to have received similar uniforms to the
                British Legion - ie green faced black; I suspect that this was just
                the Light Dragoons, as the BL no longer had any integral infantry by
                then. As to headgear, I'd be interested in Gary's thoughts on what
                would have been worn in the South, as many Regular units put their
                grenadier and light infantry caps into storage to protect them as the
                war progressed and increasingly wore normal hats (plain or modified)
                in the field. Would the hussar and grenadier caps have been too much
                in that heat? Would the regiment as a whole have donned hats given
                Simcoe's remarks about the previous batch?

                The entire unit usually served together (apart from one dragoon troop
                in Charleston, SC, and another in NYC during 1780-81) and was a true
                legionary corps in that respect. The grenadiers were also with the
                regiment in the South and Ewald leads that company, the light company
                and one battalion company in a counter-attack against rifle-armed
                militia at Spencer's Ordinary in June 1781. The Highland company, as
                Gary says, functioned primarily as a second light company and either
                used Government sett from official stores, or may perhaps - my
                speculation here - have borrowed kilts from Regular troops who were
                switching to overalls (at least one, possibly two, other Provincial
                units are known to have done this).

                Hope this helps.

                Regards,
                Brendan Morrissey
              • Gary Corrado
                Brendan: I have no specific information as to headgear being replaced. Years ago I saw a reference to a Ranger at Yorktown having his front plate worn down so
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 4, 2006
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                  Brendan:
                  I have no specific information as to headgear being replaced.
                  Years ago I saw a reference to a Ranger at Yorktown having his front
                  plate worn down so much by their incessant campaigning that it was
                  nothing more than a brim by that point. It makes sense, as Simcoe
                  reported that while on campaign in Virginia the Regiment had so worn
                  out its stores, that 50 men of the Regiment were "absolutely
                  barefoot".
                  So that cap reference makes some sense. Unfortunately, I lost the
                  source for that observation.
                  I can say that Simcoe was very happy to get those light infantry caps
                  for all of the battalion companies.He hated those contract felt hats,
                  calling them "miserable".He also left a clue as to whether he
                  considered them a priority. He states that he received compliments
                  from other officers on the appearance of the Rangers as a "light
                  corps", making them all look like a light infantry corps.With the
                  exception of the Grenadiers and Highlanders, the rest of the infantry
                  would have the light caps: lights, rifles, and 8 battalion companies.
                  Your reference to the dragoons is interesting. Rather I thought it
                  was the other way around, where Tarleton got the idea of the sleeved
                  waistcoats from his prior campaigning with the Rangers soon after the
                  formation of the Legion.
                  It also appears the dragoons of both corps wore the same
                  accoutrements. Soon after a newly raised troop of QR dragoons joined
                  the Rangers in Virginia "without a single cavalry, appointment, or
                  arms" according to Simcoe,their new equipment was instead sent to the
                  Legion, by direct order of Cornwallis.The Legion were hurting for
                  equipment at that point, also wearing white according to Simcoe, not
                  green.So it is more of a case of the Legion wearing Ranger dragoon
                  gear, rather than the other way around.

                  Gary Corrado, QR


                  -- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdtm2004" <BDTMorrissey@a...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Greg,
                  >
                  > Further to Gary's answers, it seems likely that green-faced-green
                  was
                  > the uniform throughout the unit's active period (ie from the
                  > Philadelphia campaign until their capture at Yorktown in 1781).
                  The
                  > main body of the regiment - the battalion companies - were probably
                  > dressed similarly to the grenadiers, but without the latter's
                  > distinctions. By the way, the centre companies were not riflemen,
                  as
                  > is sometimes stated - th:at is a mistake made by Lefferts whilst he
                  > was researching the unit and got it confused it with a later
                  version
                  > raised in Canada.
                  >
                  > Simcoe refers to leather caps replacing poor quality "contract
                  hats"
                  > (usually assumed to be either laced tricornes, or part-cocked -
                  > ie "slouch" - hats) around 1780-81. Also about that time, part of
                  > the regiment was supposed to have received similar uniforms to the
                  > British Legion - ie green faced black; I suspect that this was just
                  > the Light Dragoons, as the BL no longer had any integral infantry
                  by
                  > then. As to headgear, I'd be interested in Gary's thoughts on what
                  > would have been worn in the South, as many Regular units put their
                  > grenadier and light infantry caps into storage to protect them as
                  the
                  > war progressed and increasingly wore normal hats (plain or modified)
                  > in the field. Would the hussar and grenadier caps have been too
                  much
                  > in that heat? Would the regiment as a whole have donned hats given
                  > Simcoe's remarks about the previous batch?
                  >
                  > The entire unit usually served together (apart from one dragoon
                  troop
                  > in Charleston, SC, and another in NYC during 1780-81) and was a
                  true
                  > legionary corps in that respect. The grenadiers were also with the
                  > regiment in the South and Ewald leads that company, the light
                  company
                  > and one battalion company in a counter-attack against rifle-armed
                  > militia at Spencer's Ordinary in June 1781. The Highland company,
                  as
                  > Gary says, functioned primarily as a second light company and
                  either
                  > used Government sett from official stores, or may perhaps - my
                  > speculation here - have borrowed kilts from Regular troops who were
                  > switching to overalls (at least one, possibly two, other Provincial
                  > units are known to have done this).
                  >
                  > Hope this helps.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Brendan Morrissey
                  >
                • bdtm2004
                  ... Gary, Thanks for the info on headgear. Interesting that you mention a brim - do you think they would have added peaks? (The Murray watercolours don t show
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
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                    --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Corrado" <qrranger@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Your reference to the dragoons is interesting. Rather I thought it
                    > was the other way around, where Tarleton got the idea of the
                    > sleeved waistcoats from his prior campaigning with the Rangers soon
                    > after the formation of the Legion. It also appears the dragoons of
                    > both corps wore the same accoutrements. Soon after a newly raised
                    > troop of QR dragoons joined the Rangers in Virginia "without a
                    > single cavalry, appointment, or arms" according to Simcoe,their new
                    > equipment was instead sent to the Legion, by direct order of
                    > Cornwallis. The Legion were hurting for equipment at that point,
                    > also wearing white according to Simcoe, not green. So it is more
                    > of a case of the Legion wearing Ranger dragoon gear, rather than
                    > the other way around.
                    >

                    Gary,

                    Thanks for the info on headgear. Interesting that you mention a brim -
                    do you think they would have added peaks? (The Murray watercolours
                    don't show any, but it was a widespread source of complaint about
                    the "Keppel" light infantry cap.)

                    As regards your comments above, we may be talking about different
                    periods. I had gained the impression from some articles I'd read
                    (but chiefly the Haarman one in JSAHR) that post-Yorktown - maybe the
                    1782 clothing issue? - the green jacket with black cuffs and collars
                    was sent out to both corps, possibly as an economy measure. I have a
                    copy of Haarman's article somewhere and I shall try and dig it out to
                    quote. Is the light dragoon troop you refer to that of Saunders, or
                    is it another?

                    Regards,
                    Brendan Morrissey

                    > Gary Corrado, QR
                    >
                    >
                    > -- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdtm2004" <BDTMorrissey@a...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Greg,
                    > >
                    > > Further to Gary's answers, it seems likely that green-faced-green
                    > was
                    > > the uniform throughout the unit's active period (ie from the
                    > > Philadelphia campaign until their capture at Yorktown in 1781).
                    > The
                    > > main body of the regiment - the battalion companies - were
                    probably
                    > > dressed similarly to the grenadiers, but without the latter's
                    > > distinctions. By the way, the centre companies were not
                    riflemen,
                    > as
                    > > is sometimes stated - th:at is a mistake made by Lefferts whilst
                    he
                    > > was researching the unit and got it confused it with a later
                    > version
                    > > raised in Canada.
                    > >
                    > > Simcoe refers to leather caps replacing poor quality "contract
                    > hats"
                    > > (usually assumed to be either laced tricornes, or part-cocked -
                    > > ie "slouch" - hats) around 1780-81. Also about that time, part
                    of
                    > > the regiment was supposed to have received similar uniforms to
                    the
                    > > British Legion - ie green faced black; I suspect that this was
                    just
                    > > the Light Dragoons, as the BL no longer had any integral infantry
                    > by
                    > > then. As to headgear, I'd be interested in Gary's thoughts on
                    what
                    > > would have been worn in the South, as many Regular units put
                    their
                    > > grenadier and light infantry caps into storage to protect them as
                    > the
                    > > war progressed and increasingly wore normal hats (plain or
                    modified)
                    > > in the field. Would the hussar and grenadier caps have been too
                    > much
                    > > in that heat? Would the regiment as a whole have donned hats
                    given
                    > > Simcoe's remarks about the previous batch?
                    > >
                    > > The entire unit usually served together (apart from one dragoon
                    > troop
                    > > in Charleston, SC, and another in NYC during 1780-81) and was a
                    > true
                    > > legionary corps in that respect. The grenadiers were also with
                    the
                    > > regiment in the South and Ewald leads that company, the light
                    > company
                    > > and one battalion company in a counter-attack against rifle-armed
                    > > militia at Spencer's Ordinary in June 1781. The Highland
                    company,
                    > as
                    > > Gary says, functioned primarily as a second light company and
                    > either
                    > > used Government sett from official stores, or may perhaps - my
                    > > speculation here - have borrowed kilts from Regular troops who
                    were
                    > > switching to overalls (at least one, possibly two, other
                    Provincial
                    > > units are known to have done this).
                    > >
                    > > Hope this helps.
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    > > Brendan Morrissey
                    > >
                    >
                  • Gary Corrado
                    Brendan: OK , the Haarman references are definitely 1782-83. I was referring to 1780-81. I agree with the black cuff for both corps in the 82-83 time frame.
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
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                      Brendan:

                      OK , the Haarman references are definitely 1782-83. I was referring to
                      1780-81. I agree with the black cuff for both corps in the 82-83 time
                      frame. Both corps were cantoned together(in Huntington, Long Island)
                      and I know the QR's were hurting for clothes and materials. I can
                      plainly see the junior officers now commanding each of those corps
                      getting together and economizing on one coat.
                      That dragoon troop who arrived in Virginia with basically nothing, was
                      Capt. Cooke's troop, late of the 17th dragoons.Saunders never left
                      Charleston till 1782, and seemed not to hurt for supplies. The
                      quartermaster of his troop was even doling out gear to other
                      Provincial dragoon troops being raised there.That quartermaster even
                      makes mention of teaching the carbine exercise while there,surprising
                      since carbines seem to have been in short supply.

                      Gary Corrado, QR

                      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdtm2004" <BDTMorrissey@a...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Corrado" <qrranger@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Your reference to the dragoons is interesting. Rather I thought it
                      > > was the other way around, where Tarleton got the idea of the
                      > > sleeved waistcoats from his prior campaigning with the Rangers soon
                      > > after the formation of the Legion. It also appears the dragoons of
                      > > both corps wore the same accoutrements. Soon after a newly raised
                      > > troop of QR dragoons joined the Rangers in Virginia "without a
                      > > single cavalry, appointment, or arms" according to Simcoe,their new
                      > > equipment was instead sent to the Legion, by direct order of
                      > > Cornwallis. The Legion were hurting for equipment at that point,
                      > > also wearing white according to Simcoe, not green. So it is more
                      > > of a case of the Legion wearing Ranger dragoon gear, rather than
                      > > the other way around.
                      > >
                      >
                      > Gary,
                      >
                      > Thanks for the info on headgear. Interesting that you mention a brim -
                      > do you think they would have added peaks? (The Murray watercolours
                      > don't show any, but it was a widespread source of complaint about
                      > the "Keppel" light infantry cap.)
                      >
                      > As regards your comments above, we may be talking about different
                      > periods. I had gained the impression from some articles I'd read
                      > (but chiefly the Haarman one in JSAHR) that post-Yorktown - maybe the
                      > 1782 clothing issue? - the green jacket with black cuffs and collars
                      > was sent out to both corps, possibly as an economy measure. I have a
                      > copy of Haarman's article somewhere and I shall try and dig it out to
                      > quote. Is the light dragoon troop you refer to that of Saunders, or
                      > is it another?
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > Brendan Morrissey
                      >
                      > > Gary Corrado, QR
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdtm2004" <BDTMorrissey@a...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Greg,
                      > > >
                      > > > Further to Gary's answers, it seems likely that green-faced-green
                      > > was
                      > > > the uniform throughout the unit's active period (ie from the
                      > > > Philadelphia campaign until their capture at Yorktown in 1781).
                      > > The
                      > > > main body of the regiment - the battalion companies - were
                      > probably
                      > > > dressed similarly to the grenadiers, but without the latter's
                      > > > distinctions. By the way, the centre companies were not
                      > riflemen,
                      > > as
                      > > > is sometimes stated - th:at is a mistake made by Lefferts whilst
                      > he
                      > > > was researching the unit and got it confused it with a later
                      > > version
                      > > > raised in Canada.
                      > > >
                      > > > Simcoe refers to leather caps replacing poor quality "contract
                      > > hats"
                      > > > (usually assumed to be either laced tricornes, or part-cocked -
                      > > > ie "slouch" - hats) around 1780-81. Also about that time, part
                      > of
                      > > > the regiment was supposed to have received similar uniforms to
                      > the
                      > > > British Legion - ie green faced black; I suspect that this was
                      > just
                      > > > the Light Dragoons, as the BL no longer had any integral infantry
                      > > by
                      > > > then. As to headgear, I'd be interested in Gary's thoughts on
                      > what
                      > > > would have been worn in the South, as many Regular units put
                      > their
                      > > > grenadier and light infantry caps into storage to protect them as
                      > > the
                      > > > war progressed and increasingly wore normal hats (plain or
                      > modified)
                      > > > in the field. Would the hussar and grenadier caps have been too
                      > > much
                      > > > in that heat? Would the regiment as a whole have donned hats
                      > given
                      > > > Simcoe's remarks about the previous batch?
                      > > >
                      > > > The entire unit usually served together (apart from one dragoon
                      > > troop
                      > > > in Charleston, SC, and another in NYC during 1780-81) and was a
                      > > true
                      > > > legionary corps in that respect. The grenadiers were also with
                      > the
                      > > > regiment in the South and Ewald leads that company, the light
                      > > company
                      > > > and one battalion company in a counter-attack against rifle-armed
                      > > > militia at Spencer's Ordinary in June 1781. The Highland
                      > company,
                      > > as
                      > > > Gary says, functioned primarily as a second light company and
                      > > either
                      > > > used Government sett from official stores, or may perhaps - my
                      > > > speculation here - have borrowed kilts from Regular troops who
                      > were
                      > > > switching to overalls (at least one, possibly two, other
                      > Provincial
                      > > > units are known to have done this).
                      > > >
                      > > > Hope this helps.
                      > > >
                      > > > Regards,
                      > > > Brendan Morrissey
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
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