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225 years ago today - Georgetown (reality versus myth)

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  • Patrick J O'Kelley
    Howdy, Here is two versions of one story. One is myth, and one is true. First the true story: Georgetown, South Carolina 27 December 1780 To determine the
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 27, 2005
      Howdy,
      Here is two versions of one story. One is myth, and one is true.
      First the true story:

      Georgetown, South Carolina

      27 December 1780

      To determine the strength of the British forces in Georgetown Marion sent
      Peter Horry and, Captain Baxter, with thirty men from Indiantown, on a
      reconnaissance.
      In Georgetown Marion’s men set up an ambush and waited for an enemy to
      appear. Cornet Meritt was commanding a troop of green-coated Queen’s
      Rangers in Georgetown. Meritt had been sent into the countryside around
      Georgetown to provide cover for some slaves, which were sent to the
      neighboring plantations to bring back cattle that had wandered away from
      the garrison.
      About midmorning Meritt, another officer and a squad of the Queen’s
      Rangers were escorting two young ladies past Horry’s ambush. Horry
      decided not to ambush these men, since the women were with them, and let
      them pass. Horry and his men then went to a house to seek a late
      breakfast because they had not eaten in thirty-six hours. They rode to
      White’s Plantation and discovered that inside the house was Mrs. White,
      her daughter, and the two ladies that had been escorted by the Rangers.
      Mrs. White asked Horry what he wanted, and he replied that he wanted food
      and drink for his men. The family begged Horry to go away because they
      were all poor and had no provisions. Horry was confused, because he knew
      these people were Marion supporters, so he followed Mrs. White to the
      kitchen and asked what the matter was. She told Horry that the two women
      in the room were Tories, and that if Horry wanted anything, he had to
      pretend to take it by force. This was a situation that Marion’s men were
      used to, because if the people appeared too friendly the British may burn
      their house down and place the inhabitants in jail.
      Horry had gone back into the room with the Tory women, when the sentries
      outside fired a warning shot and came running back to the house. They
      told Horry that the Queen’s Rangers were charging down the road. The
      partisans quickly mounted their horses and charged the Rangers. The
      Rangers saw they were outnumbered, and fled back towards Georgetown.
      Cornet Meritt stayed in the rear, fighting off each of Horry’s men as
      they caught up with him. Captain Baxter fired pistols at Meritt, but
      missed. Captain Postelle and another partisan came at Meritt with
      swords, but they were driven back. Meritt had two horses killed under
      him, and was so stunned by the fall of the last one that he was left for
      dead. Marion’s men took his boots, helmet and weapons. When he
      recovered his senses he escaped into the swamp and hid.
      Two of the prisoners captured by Horry were both men who had been in the
      3rd South Carolina Regiment. They said that they had enlisted from the
      prison ship in Charlestown so that they would have a better chance to
      escape.

      OK, now the myth. There is a version of this story has been distorted
      due to the fabrications of Weems and his fictional account of Marion’s
      life in “The Life of General Francis Marion”. Weems wrote that Horry’s
      horsemen chased the outnumbered British cavalry into Georgetown, where
      there was a large British garrison. Major Ganey’s Loyalists dashed out
      to meet Horry’s dragoons, who did not slow down their pursuit. Horry
      found himself alone in a section of woods, when he came across Captain
      Lewis, one of Ganey’s men. Horry was only armed with a small sword, but
      Lewis had a musket. Lewis fired, hitting Horry’s horse and knocking
      Horry from the saddle. As Lewis fired his musket at Horry, a shot from
      the woods knocked him from his horse. A boy named Gwin, who had been
      watching the fight from the woods, had killed Lewis. Weems used a
      seperate incident that happened on 15 November, at White’s Plantation,
      where “Otterskin” Lewis was wounded, as the basis for this story. Weems
      continued by telling how Ganey suspected an ambush and had his men turn
      and run back to the safety of Georgetown.
      With Horry was Sergeant McDonald, who chased Major Ganey for two
      miles on his horse Fox, until McDonald had almost caught up to him.
      McDonald was one of the Maryland Continentals that Marion rescued from
      the British. Instead of going back to the Maryland Line, he stayed with
      Marion. Weems wrote that a rich Tory gave McDonald a horse called Selim,
      when McDonald fooled the Tory into thinking that he was British. This is
      another incorrect statement from Weems. Peter Horry wrote, “This Horses
      Name was Fox. McDonald was a private man. A Scotch Man."
      Weems continued with the Georgetown story, writing that one of
      Ganey’s men threw himself in the way, but McDonald fired his carbine at
      the man. Realizing that the carbine was unloaded, and he couldn’t reach
      him with his sword, he took his musket and speared Ganey in the back and
      out through the chest with his bayonet. When McDonald attempted to free
      the weapon, the bayonet remained in Ganey. Ganey rode up to the
      redoubts, blood streaming from his wounds, screaming and clawing at his
      side. Ganey supposedly and amazingly recovered from his wounds.
      Horry wrote that Weems had it wrong again, and in this action it was
      Sergeant Cryer and not McDonald, who was on this raid. He also wrote
      that no British were killed, and sixteen were captured. Only Cornet
      Merrit and a sergeant escaped. Unfortunately most of Marion’s history
      has been obscured by the sensational fiction of Weems, and even today
      there are historical highway markers in Georgetown, South Carolina, that
      repeat this fantasy of Weems.

      Patrick O'Kelley http://www.2nc.org/
      Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" The Revolutionary War in the
      Carolinas
      Volume One 1771-1779 http://www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
      Volume Two 1780
      http://www.booklocker.com/books/1707.html
      Volume Three 1781
      http://www.booklocker.com/books/1965.html
      Volume Four 1782
      http://www.booklocker.com/books/2167.html

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Gary Corrado
      That first account jives with my info. Merritt states he was left for dead, and when he woke up, everyone was gone, and he made his way back to Georgetown,
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 27, 2005
        That first account jives with my info.
        Merritt states he was left for dead, and when he woke up, everyone
        was gone, and he made his way back to Georgetown, sans helmet, sword
        and boots.
        Cornet Merritt was another officer who distinguished himself, he too
        offered the lieutenancy of a new Loyalist troop, which he too
        declined.
        He was captured on another occasion, while under a flag. Marion
        ordered this because one of his officers had been detained by
        Saunders also under a flag, so he retaliated. Problem was the officer
        Saunders detained had taken the parole following the surrender of
        Charleston, and by being taken in arms Saunders felt he had violated
        his parole.
        Merritt later escaped, taking with him other British prisoners of
        war, by stealing a boat to get back to Charleston.
        Interestingly, this was the only troop of dragoons in the QR's to
        have carbines, probably because they could not always count on
        infantry to cover them in camp.Their Quartermaster wrote that he
        instructed the tailors of the troop in the carbine exercise, as a
        break to the sewing while in Charleston.

        Gary Corrado, QR

        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Patrick J O'Kelley <goober.com@j...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Howdy,
        > Here is two versions of one story. One is myth, and one is
        true.
        > First the true story:
        >
        > Georgetown, South
        Carolina
        >
        > 27 December 1780
        >
        > To determine the strength of the British forces in Georgetown
        Marion sent
        > Peter Horry and, Captain Baxter, with thirty men from Indiantown,
        on a
        > reconnaissance.
        > In Georgetown Marion's men set up an ambush and waited for an enemy
        to
        > appear. Cornet Meritt was commanding a troop of green-coated
        Queen's
        > Rangers in Georgetown. Meritt had been sent into the countryside
        around
        > Georgetown to provide cover for some slaves, which were sent to the
        > neighboring plantations to bring back cattle that had wandered away
        from
        > the garrison.
        > About midmorning Meritt, another officer and a squad of the Queen's
        > Rangers were escorting two young ladies past Horry's ambush. Horry
        > decided not to ambush these men, since the women were with them,
        and let
        > them pass. Horry and his men then went to a house to seek a late
        > breakfast because they had not eaten in thirty-six hours. They
        rode to
        > White's Plantation and discovered that inside the house was Mrs.
        White,
        > her daughter, and the two ladies that had been escorted by the
        Rangers.
        > Mrs. White asked Horry what he wanted, and he replied that he
        wanted food
        > and drink for his men. The family begged Horry to go away because
        they
        > were all poor and had no provisions. Horry was confused, because
        he knew
        > these people were Marion supporters, so he followed Mrs. White to
        the
        > kitchen and asked what the matter was. She told Horry that the two
        women
        > in the room were Tories, and that if Horry wanted anything, he had
        to
        > pretend to take it by force. This was a situation that Marion's
        men were
        > used to, because if the people appeared too friendly the British
        may burn
        > their house down and place the inhabitants in jail.
        > Horry had gone back into the room with the Tory women, when the
        sentries
        > outside fired a warning shot and came running back to the house.
        They
        > told Horry that the Queen's Rangers were charging down the road.
        The
        > partisans quickly mounted their horses and charged the Rangers. The
        > Rangers saw they were outnumbered, and fled back towards
        Georgetown.
        > Cornet Meritt stayed in the rear, fighting off each of Horry's men
        as
        > they caught up with him. Captain Baxter fired pistols at Meritt,
        but
        > missed. Captain Postelle and another partisan came at Meritt with
        > swords, but they were driven back. Meritt had two horses killed
        under
        > him, and was so stunned by the fall of the last one that he was
        left for
        > dead. Marion's men took his boots, helmet and weapons. When he
        > recovered his senses he escaped into the swamp and hid.
        > Two of the prisoners captured by Horry were both men who had been
        in the
        > 3rd South Carolina Regiment. They said that they had enlisted from
        the
        > prison ship in Charlestown so that they would have a better chance
        to
        > escape.
        >
        > OK, now the myth. There is a version of this story has been
        distorted
        > due to the fabrications of Weems and his fictional account of
        Marion's
        > life in "The Life of General Francis Marion". Weems wrote that
        Horry's
        > horsemen chased the outnumbered British cavalry into Georgetown,
        where
        > there was a large British garrison. Major Ganey's Loyalists dashed
        out
        > to meet Horry's dragoons, who did not slow down their pursuit.
        Horry
        > found himself alone in a section of woods, when he came across
        Captain
        > Lewis, one of Ganey's men. Horry was only armed with a small
        sword, but
        > Lewis had a musket. Lewis fired, hitting Horry's horse and knocking
        > Horry from the saddle. As Lewis fired his musket at Horry, a shot
        from
        > the woods knocked him from his horse. A boy named Gwin, who had
        been
        > watching the fight from the woods, had killed Lewis. Weems used a
        > seperate incident that happened on 15 November, at White's
        Plantation,
        > where "Otterskin" Lewis was wounded, as the basis for this story.
        Weems
        > continued by telling how Ganey suspected an ambush and had his men
        turn
        > and run back to the safety of Georgetown.
        > With Horry was Sergeant McDonald, who chased Major Ganey
        for two
        > miles on his horse Fox, until McDonald had almost caught up to him.
        > McDonald was one of the Maryland Continentals that Marion rescued
        from
        > the British. Instead of going back to the Maryland Line, he stayed
        with
        > Marion. Weems wrote that a rich Tory gave McDonald a horse called
        Selim,
        > when McDonald fooled the Tory into thinking that he was British.
        This is
        > another incorrect statement from Weems. Peter Horry wrote, "This
        Horses
        > Name was Fox. McDonald was a private man. A Scotch Man."
        > Weems continued with the Georgetown story, writing that one
        of
        > Ganey's men threw himself in the way, but McDonald fired his
        carbine at
        > the man. Realizing that the carbine was unloaded, and he couldn't
        reach
        > him with his sword, he took his musket and speared Ganey in the
        back and
        > out through the chest with his bayonet. When McDonald attempted to
        free
        > the weapon, the bayonet remained in Ganey. Ganey rode up to the
        > redoubts, blood streaming from his wounds, screaming and clawing at
        his
        > side. Ganey supposedly and amazingly recovered from his wounds.
        > Horry wrote that Weems had it wrong again, and in this action it was
        > Sergeant Cryer and not McDonald, who was on this raid. He also
        wrote
        > that no British were killed, and sixteen were captured. Only Cornet
        > Merrit and a sergeant escaped. Unfortunately most of Marion's
        history
        > has been obscured by the sensational fiction of Weems, and even
        today
        > there are historical highway markers in Georgetown, South Carolina,
        that
        > repeat this fantasy of Weems.
        >
        > Patrick O'Kelley http://www.2nc.org/
        > Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" The Revolutionary War
        in the
        > Carolinas
        > Volume One 1771-1779
        http://www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
        > Volume Two 1780
        > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1707.html
        > Volume Three 1781
        > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1965.html
        > Volume Four 1782
        > http://www.booklocker.com/books/2167.html
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • banner1780
        ... Simcoe s account of the Saunder s troop at Georgetown. ... true. ... Carolina ... Marion sent ... on a ... to ... Queen s ... around ... from ... and let
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 1, 2006
          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Patrick J O'Kelley <goober.com@j...>
          wrote:
          >What is your source for the "true" story? It is certainly not in
          Simcoe's account of the Saunder's troop at Georgetown.



          > Howdy,
          > Here is two versions of one story. One is myth, and one is
          true.
          > First the true story:
          >
          > Georgetown, South
          Carolina
          >
          > 27 December 1780
          >
          > To determine the strength of the British forces in Georgetown
          Marion sent
          > Peter Horry and, Captain Baxter, with thirty men from Indiantown,
          on a
          > reconnaissance.
          > In Georgetown Marion's men set up an ambush and waited for an enemy
          to
          > appear. Cornet Meritt was commanding a troop of green-coated
          Queen's
          > Rangers in Georgetown. Meritt had been sent into the countryside
          around
          > Georgetown to provide cover for some slaves, which were sent to the
          > neighboring plantations to bring back cattle that had wandered away
          from
          > the garrison.
          > About midmorning Meritt, another officer and a squad of the Queen's
          > Rangers were escorting two young ladies past Horry's ambush. Horry
          > decided not to ambush these men, since the women were with them,
          and let
          > them pass. Horry and his men then went to a house to seek a late
          > breakfast because they had not eaten in thirty-six hours. They
          rode to
          > White's Plantation and discovered that inside the house was Mrs.
          White,
          > her daughter, and the two ladies that had been escorted by the
          Rangers.
          > Mrs. White asked Horry what he wanted, and he replied that he
          wanted food
          > and drink for his men. The family begged Horry to go away because
          they
          > were all poor and had no provisions. Horry was confused, because
          he knew
          > these people were Marion supporters, so he followed Mrs. White to
          the
          > kitchen and asked what the matter was. She told Horry that the two
          women
          > in the room were Tories, and that if Horry wanted anything, he had
          to
          > pretend to take it by force. This was a situation that Marion's
          men were
          > used to, because if the people appeared too friendly the British
          may burn
          > their house down and place the inhabitants in jail.
          > Horry had gone back into the room with the Tory women, when the
          sentries
          > outside fired a warning shot and came running back to the house.
          They
          > told Horry that the Queen's Rangers were charging down the road.
          The
          > partisans quickly mounted their horses and charged the Rangers. The
          > Rangers saw they were outnumbered, and fled back towards
          Georgetown.
          > Cornet Meritt stayed in the rear, fighting off each of Horry's men
          as
          > they caught up with him. Captain Baxter fired pistols at Meritt,
          but
          > missed. Captain Postelle and another partisan came at Meritt with
          > swords, but they were driven back. Meritt had two horses killed
          under
          > him, and was so stunned by the fall of the last one that he was
          left for
          > dead. Marion's men took his boots, helmet and weapons. When he
          > recovered his senses he escaped into the swamp and hid.
          > Two of the prisoners captured by Horry were both men who had been
          in the
          > 3rd South Carolina Regiment. They said that they had enlisted from
          the
          > prison ship in Charlestown so that they would have a better chance
          to
          > escape.
          >
          > OK, now the myth. There is a version of this story has been
          distorted
          > due to the fabrications of Weems and his fictional account of
          Marion's
          > life in "The Life of General Francis Marion". Weems wrote that
          Horry's
          > horsemen chased the outnumbered British cavalry into Georgetown,
          where
          > there was a large British garrison. Major Ganey's Loyalists dashed
          out
          > to meet Horry's dragoons, who did not slow down their pursuit.
          Horry
          > found himself alone in a section of woods, when he came across
          Captain
          > Lewis, one of Ganey's men. Horry was only armed with a small
          sword, but
          > Lewis had a musket. Lewis fired, hitting Horry's horse and knocking
          > Horry from the saddle. As Lewis fired his musket at Horry, a shot
          from
          > the woods knocked him from his horse. A boy named Gwin, who had
          been
          > watching the fight from the woods, had killed Lewis. Weems used a
          > seperate incident that happened on 15 November, at White's
          Plantation,
          > where "Otterskin" Lewis was wounded, as the basis for this story.
          Weems
          > continued by telling how Ganey suspected an ambush and had his men
          turn
          > and run back to the safety of Georgetown.
          > With Horry was Sergeant McDonald, who chased Major Ganey
          for two
          > miles on his horse Fox, until McDonald had almost caught up to him.
          > McDonald was one of the Maryland Continentals that Marion rescued
          from
          > the British. Instead of going back to the Maryland Line, he stayed
          with
          > Marion. Weems wrote that a rich Tory gave McDonald a horse called
          Selim,
          > when McDonald fooled the Tory into thinking that he was British.
          This is
          > another incorrect statement from Weems. Peter Horry wrote, "This
          Horses
          > Name was Fox. McDonald was a private man. A Scotch Man."
          > Weems continued with the Georgetown story, writing that one
          of
          > Ganey's men threw himself in the way, but McDonald fired his
          carbine at
          > the man. Realizing that the carbine was unloaded, and he couldn't
          reach
          > him with his sword, he took his musket and speared Ganey in the
          back and
          > out through the chest with his bayonet. When McDonald attempted to
          free
          > the weapon, the bayonet remained in Ganey. Ganey rode up to the
          > redoubts, blood streaming from his wounds, screaming and clawing at
          his
          > side. Ganey supposedly and amazingly recovered from his wounds.
          > Horry wrote that Weems had it wrong again, and in this action it was
          > Sergeant Cryer and not McDonald, who was on this raid. He also
          wrote
          > that no British were killed, and sixteen were captured. Only Cornet
          > Merrit and a sergeant escaped. Unfortunately most of Marion's
          history
          > has been obscured by the sensational fiction of Weems, and even
          today
          > there are historical highway markers in Georgetown, South Carolina,
          that
          > repeat this fantasy of Weems.
          >
          > Patrick O'Kelley http://www.2nc.org/
          > Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" The Revolutionary War
          in the
          > Carolinas
          > Volume One 1771-1779
          http://www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
          > Volume Two 1780
          > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1707.html
          > Volume Three 1781
          > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1965.html
          > Volume Four 1782
          > http://www.booklocker.com/books/2167.html
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Gary Corrado
          Oh yes it is. Besides, there are other primary accounts, besides Simcoe s. Try some of the testimonials written by other Loyalists of their war experiences,
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 1, 2006
            Oh yes it is.
            Besides, there are other primary accounts, besides Simcoe's.
            Try some of the testimonials written by other Loyalists of their war
            experiences, and ditto for the American participants.
            Years ago I even came across the journal of a QR officer on the
            Arnold expeditioin to Virginia. Very illuminating-talk about second
            hand smoke.They burned a hell of a lot of tobacco.Wonder if any of
            the QR's died of lung cancer

            Gary Corrado, QR
            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "banner1780" <banner1780@y...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Patrick J O'Kelley
            <goober.com@j...>
            > wrote:
            > >What is your source for the "true" story? It is certainly not in
            > Simcoe's account of the Saunder's troop at Georgetown.
            >
            >
            >
            > > Howdy,
            > > Here is two versions of one story. One is myth, and one
            is
            > true.
            > > First the true story:
            > >
            > > Georgetown, South
            > Carolina
            > >
            > > 27 December 1780
            > >
            > > To determine the strength of the British forces in Georgetown
            > Marion sent
            > > Peter Horry and, Captain Baxter, with thirty men from Indiantown,
            > on a
            > > reconnaissance.
            > > In Georgetown Marion's men set up an ambush and waited for an
            enemy
            > to
            > > appear. Cornet Meritt was commanding a troop of green-coated
            > Queen's
            > > Rangers in Georgetown. Meritt had been sent into the countryside
            > around
            > > Georgetown to provide cover for some slaves, which were sent to
            the
            > > neighboring plantations to bring back cattle that had wandered
            away
            > from
            > > the garrison.
            > > About midmorning Meritt, another officer and a squad of the
            Queen's
            > > Rangers were escorting two young ladies past Horry's ambush.
            Horry
            > > decided not to ambush these men, since the women were with them,
            > and let
            > > them pass. Horry and his men then went to a house to seek a late
            > > breakfast because they had not eaten in thirty-six hours. They
            > rode to
            > > White's Plantation and discovered that inside the house was Mrs.
            > White,
            > > her daughter, and the two ladies that had been escorted by the
            > Rangers.
            > > Mrs. White asked Horry what he wanted, and he replied that he
            > wanted food
            > > and drink for his men. The family begged Horry to go away
            because
            > they
            > > were all poor and had no provisions. Horry was confused, because
            > he knew
            > > these people were Marion supporters, so he followed Mrs. White to
            > the
            > > kitchen and asked what the matter was. She told Horry that the
            two
            > women
            > > in the room were Tories, and that if Horry wanted anything, he
            had
            > to
            > > pretend to take it by force. This was a situation that Marion's
            > men were
            > > used to, because if the people appeared too friendly the British
            > may burn
            > > their house down and place the inhabitants in jail.
            > > Horry had gone back into the room with the Tory women, when the
            > sentries
            > > outside fired a warning shot and came running back to the house.
            > They
            > > told Horry that the Queen's Rangers were charging down the road.
            > The
            > > partisans quickly mounted their horses and charged the Rangers.
            The
            > > Rangers saw they were outnumbered, and fled back towards
            > Georgetown.
            > > Cornet Meritt stayed in the rear, fighting off each of Horry's
            men
            > as
            > > they caught up with him. Captain Baxter fired pistols at Meritt,
            > but
            > > missed. Captain Postelle and another partisan came at Meritt with
            > > swords, but they were driven back. Meritt had two horses killed
            > under
            > > him, and was so stunned by the fall of the last one that he was
            > left for
            > > dead. Marion's men took his boots, helmet and weapons. When he
            > > recovered his senses he escaped into the swamp and hid.
            > > Two of the prisoners captured by Horry were both men who had been
            > in the
            > > 3rd South Carolina Regiment. They said that they had enlisted
            from
            > the
            > > prison ship in Charlestown so that they would have a better
            chance
            > to
            > > escape.
            > >
            > > OK, now the myth. There is a version of this story has been
            > distorted
            > > due to the fabrications of Weems and his fictional account of
            > Marion's
            > > life in "The Life of General Francis Marion". Weems wrote that
            > Horry's
            > > horsemen chased the outnumbered British cavalry into Georgetown,
            > where
            > > there was a large British garrison. Major Ganey's Loyalists
            dashed
            > out
            > > to meet Horry's dragoons, who did not slow down their pursuit.
            > Horry
            > > found himself alone in a section of woods, when he came across
            > Captain
            > > Lewis, one of Ganey's men. Horry was only armed with a small
            > sword, but
            > > Lewis had a musket. Lewis fired, hitting Horry's horse and
            knocking
            > > Horry from the saddle. As Lewis fired his musket at Horry, a
            shot
            > from
            > > the woods knocked him from his horse. A boy named Gwin, who had
            > been
            > > watching the fight from the woods, had killed Lewis. Weems used a
            > > seperate incident that happened on 15 November, at White's
            > Plantation,
            > > where "Otterskin" Lewis was wounded, as the basis for this
            story.
            > Weems
            > > continued by telling how Ganey suspected an ambush and had his
            men
            > turn
            > > and run back to the safety of Georgetown.
            > > With Horry was Sergeant McDonald, who chased Major Ganey
            > for two
            > > miles on his horse Fox, until McDonald had almost caught up to
            him.
            > > McDonald was one of the Maryland Continentals that Marion rescued
            > from
            > > the British. Instead of going back to the Maryland Line, he
            stayed
            > with
            > > Marion. Weems wrote that a rich Tory gave McDonald a horse called
            > Selim,
            > > when McDonald fooled the Tory into thinking that he was British.
            > This is
            > > another incorrect statement from Weems. Peter Horry wrote, "This
            > Horses
            > > Name was Fox. McDonald was a private man. A Scotch Man."
            > > Weems continued with the Georgetown story, writing that
            one
            > of
            > > Ganey's men threw himself in the way, but McDonald fired his
            > carbine at
            > > the man. Realizing that the carbine was unloaded, and he
            couldn't
            > reach
            > > him with his sword, he took his musket and speared Ganey in the
            > back and
            > > out through the chest with his bayonet. When McDonald attempted
            to
            > free
            > > the weapon, the bayonet remained in Ganey. Ganey rode up to the
            > > redoubts, blood streaming from his wounds, screaming and clawing
            at
            > his
            > > side. Ganey supposedly and amazingly recovered from his
            wounds.
            > > Horry wrote that Weems had it wrong again, and in this action it
            was
            > > Sergeant Cryer and not McDonald, who was on this raid. He also
            > wrote
            > > that no British were killed, and sixteen were captured. Only
            Cornet
            > > Merrit and a sergeant escaped. Unfortunately most of Marion's
            > history
            > > has been obscured by the sensational fiction of Weems, and even
            > today
            > > there are historical highway markers in Georgetown, South
            Carolina,
            > that
            > > repeat this fantasy of Weems.
            > >
            > > Patrick O'Kelley http://www.2nc.org/
            > > Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" The Revolutionary War
            > in the
            > > Carolinas
            > > Volume One 1771-1779
            > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
            > > Volume Two 1780
            > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1707.html
            > > Volume Three 1781
            > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1965.html
            > > Volume Four 1782
            > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/2167.html
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
          • rgrokelley
            Howdy, ... I got my information from two guys who were there, Horry and William Dobein James. Always go with a primary source. Simcoe also mentions it, page
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 1, 2006
              Howdy,

              >What is your source for the "true" story? It is certainly not in
              > Simcoe's account of the Saunder's troop at Georgetown.

              I got my information from two guys who were there, Horry and
              William Dobein James. Always go with a primary source. Simcoe also
              mentions it, page 243-244 of the Arno reprint.

              Patrick O'Kelley http://www.2nc.org/
              Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" The Revolutionary War in
              the Carolinas
              Available at Volume One 1771-1779
              http://www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
              Volume Two 1780
              http://www.booklocker.com/books/1707.html
              Volume Three 1781
              http://www.booklocker.com/books/1965.html
            • ehrmanngm
              Gary, This is as interesting as it is little known. I have some QR questions for you or anyone else whom may be in the know ? Of interest to me is how were
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 3, 2006
                Gary,
                This is as interesting as it is little known. I have some QR
                questions for you or anyone else whom may "be in the know"?
                Of interest to me is how were the QR's attired and deployed during
                these and any similar operationS? Did the Grenadier Company stay
                with the Regiment or was it with other Grenadier Companies in a
                Gren. BN? Did the Grens. actually wear their bearskins in the
                field, if not what? Did the Grens. wear a Regimental Caot with
                Black facings instead of a "coatee" in the field? If present, were
                the Grens. deployed as just another line company? These questions
                could be used for the Highland Co. too? Also, were kilts worn in
                the field, what was the plaid; McNabb or Govt. set? How was this
                company employed too?
                Thanks for your time.

                Cheers, Greg Ehrmann

                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Corrado" <qrranger@y...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Oh yes it is.
                > Besides, there are other primary accounts, besides Simcoe's.
                > Try some of the testimonials written by other Loyalists of their
                war
                > experiences, and ditto for the American participants.
                > Years ago I even came across the journal of a QR officer on the
                > Arnold expeditioin to Virginia. Very illuminating-talk about
                second
                > hand smoke.They burned a hell of a lot of tobacco.Wonder if any of
                > the QR's died of lung cancer
                >
                > Gary Corrado, QR
                > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "banner1780" <banner1780@y...>
                wrote:
                > >
                > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Patrick J O'Kelley
                > <goober.com@j...>
                > > wrote:
                > > >What is your source for the "true" story? It is certainly not
                in
                > > Simcoe's account of the Saunder's troop at Georgetown.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > > Howdy,
                > > > Here is two versions of one story. One is myth, and
                one
                > is
                > > true.
                > > > First the true story:
                > > >
                > > > Georgetown, South
                > > Carolina
                > > >
                > > > 27 December 1780
                > > >
                > > > To determine the strength of the British forces in Georgetown
                > > Marion sent
                > > > Peter Horry and, Captain Baxter, with thirty men from
                Indiantown,
                > > on a
                > > > reconnaissance.
                > > > In Georgetown Marion's men set up an ambush and waited for an
                > enemy
                > > to
                > > > appear. Cornet Meritt was commanding a troop of green-coated
                > > Queen's
                > > > Rangers in Georgetown. Meritt had been sent into the
                countryside
                > > around
                > > > Georgetown to provide cover for some slaves, which were sent
                to
                > the
                > > > neighboring plantations to bring back cattle that had wandered
                > away
                > > from
                > > > the garrison.
                > > > About midmorning Meritt, another officer and a squad of the
                > Queen's
                > > > Rangers were escorting two young ladies past Horry's ambush.
                > Horry
                > > > decided not to ambush these men, since the women were with
                them,
                > > and let
                > > > them pass. Horry and his men then went to a house to seek a
                late
                > > > breakfast because they had not eaten in thirty-six hours.
                They
                > > rode to
                > > > White's Plantation and discovered that inside the house was
                Mrs.
                > > White,
                > > > her daughter, and the two ladies that had been escorted by the
                > > Rangers.
                > > > Mrs. White asked Horry what he wanted, and he replied that he
                > > wanted food
                > > > and drink for his men. The family begged Horry to go away
                > because
                > > they
                > > > were all poor and had no provisions. Horry was confused,
                because
                > > he knew
                > > > these people were Marion supporters, so he followed Mrs. White
                to
                > > the
                > > > kitchen and asked what the matter was. She told Horry that
                the
                > two
                > > women
                > > > in the room were Tories, and that if Horry wanted anything, he
                > had
                > > to
                > > > pretend to take it by force. This was a situation that
                Marion's
                > > men were
                > > > used to, because if the people appeared too friendly the
                British
                > > may burn
                > > > their house down and place the inhabitants in jail.
                > > > Horry had gone back into the room with the Tory women, when
                the
                > > sentries
                > > > outside fired a warning shot and came running back to the
                house.
                > > They
                > > > told Horry that the Queen's Rangers were charging down the
                road.
                > > The
                > > > partisans quickly mounted their horses and charged the
                Rangers.
                > The
                > > > Rangers saw they were outnumbered, and fled back towards
                > > Georgetown.
                > > > Cornet Meritt stayed in the rear, fighting off each of Horry's
                > men
                > > as
                > > > they caught up with him. Captain Baxter fired pistols at
                Meritt,
                > > but
                > > > missed. Captain Postelle and another partisan came at Meritt
                with
                > > > swords, but they were driven back. Meritt had two horses
                killed
                > > under
                > > > him, and was so stunned by the fall of the last one that he
                was
                > > left for
                > > > dead. Marion's men took his boots, helmet and weapons. When
                he
                > > > recovered his senses he escaped into the swamp and hid.
                > > > Two of the prisoners captured by Horry were both men who had
                been
                > > in the
                > > > 3rd South Carolina Regiment. They said that they had enlisted
                > from
                > > the
                > > > prison ship in Charlestown so that they would have a better
                > chance
                > > to
                > > > escape.
                > > >
                > > > OK, now the myth. There is a version of this story has been
                > > distorted
                > > > due to the fabrications of Weems and his fictional account of
                > > Marion's
                > > > life in "The Life of General Francis Marion". Weems wrote
                that
                > > Horry's
                > > > horsemen chased the outnumbered British cavalry into
                Georgetown,
                > > where
                > > > there was a large British garrison. Major Ganey's Loyalists
                > dashed
                > > out
                > > > to meet Horry's dragoons, who did not slow down their
                pursuit.
                > > Horry
                > > > found himself alone in a section of woods, when he came across
                > > Captain
                > > > Lewis, one of Ganey's men. Horry was only armed with a small
                > > sword, but
                > > > Lewis had a musket. Lewis fired, hitting Horry's horse and
                > knocking
                > > > Horry from the saddle. As Lewis fired his musket at Horry, a
                > shot
                > > from
                > > > the woods knocked him from his horse. A boy named Gwin, who
                had
                > > been
                > > > watching the fight from the woods, had killed Lewis. Weems
                used a
                > > > seperate incident that happened on 15 November, at White's
                > > Plantation,
                > > > where "Otterskin" Lewis was wounded, as the basis for this
                > story.
                > > Weems
                > > > continued by telling how Ganey suspected an ambush and had his
                > men
                > > turn
                > > > and run back to the safety of Georgetown.
                > > > With Horry was Sergeant McDonald, who chased Major
                Ganey
                > > for two
                > > > miles on his horse Fox, until McDonald had almost caught up to
                > him.
                > > > McDonald was one of the Maryland Continentals that Marion
                rescued
                > > from
                > > > the British. Instead of going back to the Maryland Line, he
                > stayed
                > > with
                > > > Marion. Weems wrote that a rich Tory gave McDonald a horse
                called
                > > Selim,
                > > > when McDonald fooled the Tory into thinking that he was
                British.
                > > This is
                > > > another incorrect statement from Weems. Peter Horry
                wrote, "This
                > > Horses
                > > > Name was Fox. McDonald was a private man. A Scotch Man."
                > > > Weems continued with the Georgetown story, writing
                that
                > one
                > > of
                > > > Ganey's men threw himself in the way, but McDonald fired his
                > > carbine at
                > > > the man. Realizing that the carbine was unloaded, and he
                > couldn't
                > > reach
                > > > him with his sword, he took his musket and speared Ganey in
                the
                > > back and
                > > > out through the chest with his bayonet. When McDonald
                attempted
                > to
                > > free
                > > > the weapon, the bayonet remained in Ganey. Ganey rode up to
                the
                > > > redoubts, blood streaming from his wounds, screaming and
                clawing
                > at
                > > his
                > > > side. Ganey supposedly and amazingly recovered from his
                > wounds.
                > > > Horry wrote that Weems had it wrong again, and in this action
                it
                > was
                > > > Sergeant Cryer and not McDonald, who was on this raid. He
                also
                > > wrote
                > > > that no British were killed, and sixteen were captured. Only
                > Cornet
                > > > Merrit and a sergeant escaped. Unfortunately most of Marion's
                > > history
                > > > has been obscured by the sensational fiction of Weems, and
                even
                > > today
                > > > there are historical highway markers in Georgetown, South
                > Carolina,
                > > that
                > > > repeat this fantasy of Weems.
                > > >
                > > > Patrick O'Kelley http://www.2nc.org/
                > > > Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" The Revolutionary
                War
                > > in the
                > > > Carolinas
                > > > Volume One 1771-1779
                > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
                > > > Volume Two 1780
                > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1707.html
                > > > Volume Three 1781
                > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1965.html
                > > > Volume Four 1782
                > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/2167.html
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Gary Corrado
                If you see the famous Murray paintings, they show 4 enlisted(not officers) of the Light, Rifle, Grenadier, and Hussar companies. Those, plus clothing returns,
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 3, 2006
                  If you see the famous Murray paintings, they show 4 enlisted(not
                  officers) of the Light, Rifle, Grenadier, and Hussar companies.
                  Those, plus clothing returns, help flesh out their appearance. That
                  said, it appears their uniform changed at least 3 times, depending on
                  what year of the AWI you refer to.
                  ALL the enlisted in the Murray paintings(c.1780) wore green-faced-
                  green.No black facings.
                  Post-AWI paintings show several QR officers in regimentals with black
                  facings.Their commander, however, posed for a painting in his AWI
                  coat, again with black facings. Interestingly, ALL of the officers
                  coats have the same laced buttonholes, with the buttons arranged in
                  pairs.\That is because a toast recorded in a diary of a QR officer
                  heard the officers refer to the "Second battalion" of the QR's.
                  apparently after Rogers Rangers.
                  The Grenadier company stayed with the Regiment, and was detached only
                  on a few specific instances, but in company with other companies of
                  the Regiment, as at Monmouth where they opened the battle in company
                  with the Hussar company. A rebel eyewitness account refers to their
                  being attacked by "mounted Grenadiers and grenadiers" referring to
                  the similar headress of tall busby-type headgear of these 2 companies.
                  So yes, the Grenadiers wore tall busby type bearskins, with the
                  silver moon insignia on the front(shown clearly in the Murray
                  painting). They wore a green waistcoat, a short regimenetal(a la
                  Light infantry style), and the coats had the winged lappet style
                  usually seen on Continental coats.All green.I do not believe they
                  wore short swords, or hangers.Their roster was completed during the
                  winter of Valley Forge, where many deserters came to the post manned
                  by the QR's, and joined up. Many were Irish.
                  The McNab tartan for the Highland company pictured in the Company of
                  Military Historian print was a mistake.The author at the time found a
                  McNab in the roster of that company, and assumed the whole company
                  wore McNab tartans. Given their close campaigning with the 42nd and
                  71st regiments, and being a company sized unit, I doubt anyone could
                  make a case for anything but the goverrnment sett kilt for them.
                  Simcoe used the Highland company as his personal guard, and were
                  occasionally detached as lights.
                  Check out our website for some of the uniforms.

                  Gary Corrado, QR
                  www.queensrangers.com


                  --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "ehrmanngm" <gregory.ehrmann@R...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Gary,
                  > This is as interesting as it is little known. I have some QR
                  > questions for you or anyone else whom may "be in the know"?
                  > Of interest to me is how were the QR's attired and deployed
                  during
                  > these and any similar operationS? Did the Grenadier Company stay
                  > with the Regiment or was it with other Grenadier Companies in a
                  > Gren. BN? Did the Grens. actually wear their bearskins in the
                  > field, if not what? Did the Grens. wear a Regimental Caot with
                  > Black facings instead of a "coatee" in the field? If present, were
                  > the Grens. deployed as just another line company? These questions
                  > could be used for the Highland Co. too? Also, were kilts worn in
                  > the field, what was the plaid; McNabb or Govt. set? How was this
                  > company employed too?
                  > Thanks for your time.
                  >
                  > Cheers, Greg Ehrmann
                  >
                  > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Corrado" <qrranger@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Oh yes it is.
                  > > Besides, there are other primary accounts, besides Simcoe's.
                  > > Try some of the testimonials written by other Loyalists of their
                  > war
                  > > experiences, and ditto for the American participants.
                  > > Years ago I even came across the journal of a QR officer on the
                  > > Arnold expeditioin to Virginia. Very illuminating-talk about
                  > second
                  > > hand smoke.They burned a hell of a lot of tobacco.Wonder if any
                  of
                  > > the QR's died of lung cancer
                  > >
                  > > Gary Corrado, QR
                  > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "banner1780" <banner1780@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Patrick J O'Kelley
                  > > <goober.com@j...>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > >What is your source for the "true" story? It is certainly not
                  > in
                  > > > Simcoe's account of the Saunder's troop at Georgetown.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > > Howdy,
                  > > > > Here is two versions of one story. One is myth, and
                  > one
                  > > is
                  > > > true.
                  > > > > First the true story:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Georgetown, South
                  > > > Carolina
                  > > > >
                  > > > > 27 December 1780
                  > > > >
                  > > > > To determine the strength of the British forces in Georgetown
                  > > > Marion sent
                  > > > > Peter Horry and, Captain Baxter, with thirty men from
                  > Indiantown,
                  > > > on a
                  > > > > reconnaissance.
                  > > > > In Georgetown Marion's men set up an ambush and waited for an
                  > > enemy
                  > > > to
                  > > > > appear. Cornet Meritt was commanding a troop of green-coated
                  > > > Queen's
                  > > > > Rangers in Georgetown. Meritt had been sent into the
                  > countryside
                  > > > around
                  > > > > Georgetown to provide cover for some slaves, which were sent
                  > to
                  > > the
                  > > > > neighboring plantations to bring back cattle that had
                  wandered
                  > > away
                  > > > from
                  > > > > the garrison.
                  > > > > About midmorning Meritt, another officer and a squad of the
                  > > Queen's
                  > > > > Rangers were escorting two young ladies past Horry's ambush.
                  > > Horry
                  > > > > decided not to ambush these men, since the women were with
                  > them,
                  > > > and let
                  > > > > them pass. Horry and his men then went to a house to seek a
                  > late
                  > > > > breakfast because they had not eaten in thirty-six hours.
                  > They
                  > > > rode to
                  > > > > White's Plantation and discovered that inside the house was
                  > Mrs.
                  > > > White,
                  > > > > her daughter, and the two ladies that had been escorted by
                  the
                  > > > Rangers.
                  > > > > Mrs. White asked Horry what he wanted, and he replied that he
                  > > > wanted food
                  > > > > and drink for his men. The family begged Horry to go away
                  > > because
                  > > > they
                  > > > > were all poor and had no provisions. Horry was confused,
                  > because
                  > > > he knew
                  > > > > these people were Marion supporters, so he followed Mrs.
                  White
                  > to
                  > > > the
                  > > > > kitchen and asked what the matter was. She told Horry that
                  > the
                  > > two
                  > > > women
                  > > > > in the room were Tories, and that if Horry wanted anything,
                  he
                  > > had
                  > > > to
                  > > > > pretend to take it by force. This was a situation that
                  > Marion's
                  > > > men were
                  > > > > used to, because if the people appeared too friendly the
                  > British
                  > > > may burn
                  > > > > their house down and place the inhabitants in jail.
                  > > > > Horry had gone back into the room with the Tory women, when
                  > the
                  > > > sentries
                  > > > > outside fired a warning shot and came running back to the
                  > house.
                  > > > They
                  > > > > told Horry that the Queen's Rangers were charging down the
                  > road.
                  > > > The
                  > > > > partisans quickly mounted their horses and charged the
                  > Rangers.
                  > > The
                  > > > > Rangers saw they were outnumbered, and fled back towards
                  > > > Georgetown.
                  > > > > Cornet Meritt stayed in the rear, fighting off each of
                  Horry's
                  > > men
                  > > > as
                  > > > > they caught up with him. Captain Baxter fired pistols at
                  > Meritt,
                  > > > but
                  > > > > missed. Captain Postelle and another partisan came at Meritt
                  > with
                  > > > > swords, but they were driven back. Meritt had two horses
                  > killed
                  > > > under
                  > > > > him, and was so stunned by the fall of the last one that he
                  > was
                  > > > left for
                  > > > > dead. Marion's men took his boots, helmet and weapons. When
                  > he
                  > > > > recovered his senses he escaped into the swamp and hid.
                  > > > > Two of the prisoners captured by Horry were both men who had
                  > been
                  > > > in the
                  > > > > 3rd South Carolina Regiment. They said that they had enlisted
                  > > from
                  > > > the
                  > > > > prison ship in Charlestown so that they would have a better
                  > > chance
                  > > > to
                  > > > > escape.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > OK, now the myth. There is a version of this story has been
                  > > > distorted
                  > > > > due to the fabrications of Weems and his fictional account of
                  > > > Marion's
                  > > > > life in "The Life of General Francis Marion". Weems wrote
                  > that
                  > > > Horry's
                  > > > > horsemen chased the outnumbered British cavalry into
                  > Georgetown,
                  > > > where
                  > > > > there was a large British garrison. Major Ganey's Loyalists
                  > > dashed
                  > > > out
                  > > > > to meet Horry's dragoons, who did not slow down their
                  > pursuit.
                  > > > Horry
                  > > > > found himself alone in a section of woods, when he came
                  across
                  > > > Captain
                  > > > > Lewis, one of Ganey's men. Horry was only armed with a small
                  > > > sword, but
                  > > > > Lewis had a musket. Lewis fired, hitting Horry's horse and
                  > > knocking
                  > > > > Horry from the saddle. As Lewis fired his musket at Horry, a
                  > > shot
                  > > > from
                  > > > > the woods knocked him from his horse. A boy named Gwin, who
                  > had
                  > > > been
                  > > > > watching the fight from the woods, had killed Lewis. Weems
                  > used a
                  > > > > seperate incident that happened on 15 November, at White's
                  > > > Plantation,
                  > > > > where "Otterskin" Lewis was wounded, as the basis for this
                  > > story.
                  > > > Weems
                  > > > > continued by telling how Ganey suspected an ambush and had
                  his
                  > > men
                  > > > turn
                  > > > > and run back to the safety of Georgetown.
                  > > > > With Horry was Sergeant McDonald, who chased Major
                  > Ganey
                  > > > for two
                  > > > > miles on his horse Fox, until McDonald had almost caught up
                  to
                  > > him.
                  > > > > McDonald was one of the Maryland Continentals that Marion
                  > rescued
                  > > > from
                  > > > > the British. Instead of going back to the Maryland Line, he
                  > > stayed
                  > > > with
                  > > > > Marion. Weems wrote that a rich Tory gave McDonald a horse
                  > called
                  > > > Selim,
                  > > > > when McDonald fooled the Tory into thinking that he was
                  > British.
                  > > > This is
                  > > > > another incorrect statement from Weems. Peter Horry
                  > wrote, "This
                  > > > Horses
                  > > > > Name was Fox. McDonald was a private man. A Scotch Man."
                  > > > > Weems continued with the Georgetown story, writing
                  > that
                  > > one
                  > > > of
                  > > > > Ganey's men threw himself in the way, but McDonald fired his
                  > > > carbine at
                  > > > > the man. Realizing that the carbine was unloaded, and he
                  > > couldn't
                  > > > reach
                  > > > > him with his sword, he took his musket and speared Ganey in
                  > the
                  > > > back and
                  > > > > out through the chest with his bayonet. When McDonald
                  > attempted
                  > > to
                  > > > free
                  > > > > the weapon, the bayonet remained in Ganey. Ganey rode up to
                  > the
                  > > > > redoubts, blood streaming from his wounds, screaming and
                  > clawing
                  > > at
                  > > > his
                  > > > > side. Ganey supposedly and amazingly recovered from his
                  > > wounds.
                  > > > > Horry wrote that Weems had it wrong again, and in this action
                  > it
                  > > was
                  > > > > Sergeant Cryer and not McDonald, who was on this raid. He
                  > also
                  > > > wrote
                  > > > > that no British were killed, and sixteen were captured. Only
                  > > Cornet
                  > > > > Merrit and a sergeant escaped. Unfortunately most of
                  Marion's
                  > > > history
                  > > > > has been obscured by the sensational fiction of Weems, and
                  > even
                  > > > today
                  > > > > there are historical highway markers in Georgetown, South
                  > > Carolina,
                  > > > that
                  > > > > repeat this fantasy of Weems.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Patrick O'Kelley http://www.2nc.org/
                  > > > > Author of "Nothing but Blood and Slaughter" The Revolutionary
                  > War
                  > > > in the
                  > > > > Carolinas
                  > > > > Volume One 1771-1779
                  > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
                  > > > > Volume Two 1780
                  > > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1707.html
                  > > > > Volume Three 1781
                  > > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/1965.html
                  > > > > Volume Four 1782
                  > > > > http://www.booklocker.com/books/2167.html
                  > > > >
                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • bdtm2004
                  Greg, Further to Gary s answers, it seems likely that green-faced-green was the uniform throughout the unit s active period (ie from the Philadelphia campaign
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 3, 2006
                    Greg,

                    Further to Gary's answers, it seems likely that green-faced-green was
                    the uniform throughout the unit's active period (ie from the
                    Philadelphia campaign until their capture at Yorktown in 1781). The
                    main body of the regiment - the battalion companies - were probably
                    dressed similarly to the grenadiers, but without the latter's
                    distinctions. By the way, the centre companies were not riflemen, as
                    is sometimes stated - that is a mistake made by Lefferts whilst he
                    was researching the unit and got it confused it with a later version
                    raised in Canada.

                    Simcoe refers to leather caps replacing poor quality "contract hats"
                    (usually assumed to be either laced tricornes, or part-cocked -
                    ie "slouch" - hats) around 1780-81. Also about that time, part of
                    the regiment was supposed to have received similar uniforms to the
                    British Legion - ie green faced black; I suspect that this was just
                    the Light Dragoons, as the BL no longer had any integral infantry by
                    then. As to headgear, I'd be interested in Gary's thoughts on what
                    would have been worn in the South, as many Regular units put their
                    grenadier and light infantry caps into storage to protect them as the
                    war progressed and increasingly wore normal hats (plain or modified)
                    in the field. Would the hussar and grenadier caps have been too much
                    in that heat? Would the regiment as a whole have donned hats given
                    Simcoe's remarks about the previous batch?

                    The entire unit usually served together (apart from one dragoon troop
                    in Charleston, SC, and another in NYC during 1780-81) and was a true
                    legionary corps in that respect. The grenadiers were also with the
                    regiment in the South and Ewald leads that company, the light company
                    and one battalion company in a counter-attack against rifle-armed
                    militia at Spencer's Ordinary in June 1781. The Highland company, as
                    Gary says, functioned primarily as a second light company and either
                    used Government sett from official stores, or may perhaps - my
                    speculation here - have borrowed kilts from Regular troops who were
                    switching to overalls (at least one, possibly two, other Provincial
                    units are known to have done this).

                    Hope this helps.

                    Regards,
                    Brendan Morrissey
                  • Gary Corrado
                    Brendan: I have no specific information as to headgear being replaced. Years ago I saw a reference to a Ranger at Yorktown having his front plate worn down so
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 4, 2006
                      Brendan:
                      I have no specific information as to headgear being replaced.
                      Years ago I saw a reference to a Ranger at Yorktown having his front
                      plate worn down so much by their incessant campaigning that it was
                      nothing more than a brim by that point. It makes sense, as Simcoe
                      reported that while on campaign in Virginia the Regiment had so worn
                      out its stores, that 50 men of the Regiment were "absolutely
                      barefoot".
                      So that cap reference makes some sense. Unfortunately, I lost the
                      source for that observation.
                      I can say that Simcoe was very happy to get those light infantry caps
                      for all of the battalion companies.He hated those contract felt hats,
                      calling them "miserable".He also left a clue as to whether he
                      considered them a priority. He states that he received compliments
                      from other officers on the appearance of the Rangers as a "light
                      corps", making them all look like a light infantry corps.With the
                      exception of the Grenadiers and Highlanders, the rest of the infantry
                      would have the light caps: lights, rifles, and 8 battalion companies.
                      Your reference to the dragoons is interesting. Rather I thought it
                      was the other way around, where Tarleton got the idea of the sleeved
                      waistcoats from his prior campaigning with the Rangers soon after the
                      formation of the Legion.
                      It also appears the dragoons of both corps wore the same
                      accoutrements. Soon after a newly raised troop of QR dragoons joined
                      the Rangers in Virginia "without a single cavalry, appointment, or
                      arms" according to Simcoe,their new equipment was instead sent to the
                      Legion, by direct order of Cornwallis.The Legion were hurting for
                      equipment at that point, also wearing white according to Simcoe, not
                      green.So it is more of a case of the Legion wearing Ranger dragoon
                      gear, rather than the other way around.

                      Gary Corrado, QR


                      -- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdtm2004" <BDTMorrissey@a...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Greg,
                      >
                      > Further to Gary's answers, it seems likely that green-faced-green
                      was
                      > the uniform throughout the unit's active period (ie from the
                      > Philadelphia campaign until their capture at Yorktown in 1781).
                      The
                      > main body of the regiment - the battalion companies - were probably
                      > dressed similarly to the grenadiers, but without the latter's
                      > distinctions. By the way, the centre companies were not riflemen,
                      as
                      > is sometimes stated - th:at is a mistake made by Lefferts whilst he
                      > was researching the unit and got it confused it with a later
                      version
                      > raised in Canada.
                      >
                      > Simcoe refers to leather caps replacing poor quality "contract
                      hats"
                      > (usually assumed to be either laced tricornes, or part-cocked -
                      > ie "slouch" - hats) around 1780-81. Also about that time, part of
                      > the regiment was supposed to have received similar uniforms to the
                      > British Legion - ie green faced black; I suspect that this was just
                      > the Light Dragoons, as the BL no longer had any integral infantry
                      by
                      > then. As to headgear, I'd be interested in Gary's thoughts on what
                      > would have been worn in the South, as many Regular units put their
                      > grenadier and light infantry caps into storage to protect them as
                      the
                      > war progressed and increasingly wore normal hats (plain or modified)
                      > in the field. Would the hussar and grenadier caps have been too
                      much
                      > in that heat? Would the regiment as a whole have donned hats given
                      > Simcoe's remarks about the previous batch?
                      >
                      > The entire unit usually served together (apart from one dragoon
                      troop
                      > in Charleston, SC, and another in NYC during 1780-81) and was a
                      true
                      > legionary corps in that respect. The grenadiers were also with the
                      > regiment in the South and Ewald leads that company, the light
                      company
                      > and one battalion company in a counter-attack against rifle-armed
                      > militia at Spencer's Ordinary in June 1781. The Highland company,
                      as
                      > Gary says, functioned primarily as a second light company and
                      either
                      > used Government sett from official stores, or may perhaps - my
                      > speculation here - have borrowed kilts from Regular troops who were
                      > switching to overalls (at least one, possibly two, other Provincial
                      > units are known to have done this).
                      >
                      > Hope this helps.
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > Brendan Morrissey
                      >
                    • bdtm2004
                      ... Gary, Thanks for the info on headgear. Interesting that you mention a brim - do you think they would have added peaks? (The Murray watercolours don t show
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
                        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Corrado" <qrranger@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Your reference to the dragoons is interesting. Rather I thought it
                        > was the other way around, where Tarleton got the idea of the
                        > sleeved waistcoats from his prior campaigning with the Rangers soon
                        > after the formation of the Legion. It also appears the dragoons of
                        > both corps wore the same accoutrements. Soon after a newly raised
                        > troop of QR dragoons joined the Rangers in Virginia "without a
                        > single cavalry, appointment, or arms" according to Simcoe,their new
                        > equipment was instead sent to the Legion, by direct order of
                        > Cornwallis. The Legion were hurting for equipment at that point,
                        > also wearing white according to Simcoe, not green. So it is more
                        > of a case of the Legion wearing Ranger dragoon gear, rather than
                        > the other way around.
                        >

                        Gary,

                        Thanks for the info on headgear. Interesting that you mention a brim -
                        do you think they would have added peaks? (The Murray watercolours
                        don't show any, but it was a widespread source of complaint about
                        the "Keppel" light infantry cap.)

                        As regards your comments above, we may be talking about different
                        periods. I had gained the impression from some articles I'd read
                        (but chiefly the Haarman one in JSAHR) that post-Yorktown - maybe the
                        1782 clothing issue? - the green jacket with black cuffs and collars
                        was sent out to both corps, possibly as an economy measure. I have a
                        copy of Haarman's article somewhere and I shall try and dig it out to
                        quote. Is the light dragoon troop you refer to that of Saunders, or
                        is it another?

                        Regards,
                        Brendan Morrissey

                        > Gary Corrado, QR
                        >
                        >
                        > -- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdtm2004" <BDTMorrissey@a...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Greg,
                        > >
                        > > Further to Gary's answers, it seems likely that green-faced-green
                        > was
                        > > the uniform throughout the unit's active period (ie from the
                        > > Philadelphia campaign until their capture at Yorktown in 1781).
                        > The
                        > > main body of the regiment - the battalion companies - were
                        probably
                        > > dressed similarly to the grenadiers, but without the latter's
                        > > distinctions. By the way, the centre companies were not
                        riflemen,
                        > as
                        > > is sometimes stated - th:at is a mistake made by Lefferts whilst
                        he
                        > > was researching the unit and got it confused it with a later
                        > version
                        > > raised in Canada.
                        > >
                        > > Simcoe refers to leather caps replacing poor quality "contract
                        > hats"
                        > > (usually assumed to be either laced tricornes, or part-cocked -
                        > > ie "slouch" - hats) around 1780-81. Also about that time, part
                        of
                        > > the regiment was supposed to have received similar uniforms to
                        the
                        > > British Legion - ie green faced black; I suspect that this was
                        just
                        > > the Light Dragoons, as the BL no longer had any integral infantry
                        > by
                        > > then. As to headgear, I'd be interested in Gary's thoughts on
                        what
                        > > would have been worn in the South, as many Regular units put
                        their
                        > > grenadier and light infantry caps into storage to protect them as
                        > the
                        > > war progressed and increasingly wore normal hats (plain or
                        modified)
                        > > in the field. Would the hussar and grenadier caps have been too
                        > much
                        > > in that heat? Would the regiment as a whole have donned hats
                        given
                        > > Simcoe's remarks about the previous batch?
                        > >
                        > > The entire unit usually served together (apart from one dragoon
                        > troop
                        > > in Charleston, SC, and another in NYC during 1780-81) and was a
                        > true
                        > > legionary corps in that respect. The grenadiers were also with
                        the
                        > > regiment in the South and Ewald leads that company, the light
                        > company
                        > > and one battalion company in a counter-attack against rifle-armed
                        > > militia at Spencer's Ordinary in June 1781. The Highland
                        company,
                        > as
                        > > Gary says, functioned primarily as a second light company and
                        > either
                        > > used Government sett from official stores, or may perhaps - my
                        > > speculation here - have borrowed kilts from Regular troops who
                        were
                        > > switching to overalls (at least one, possibly two, other
                        Provincial
                        > > units are known to have done this).
                        > >
                        > > Hope this helps.
                        > >
                        > > Regards,
                        > > Brendan Morrissey
                        > >
                        >
                      • Gary Corrado
                        Brendan: OK , the Haarman references are definitely 1782-83. I was referring to 1780-81. I agree with the black cuff for both corps in the 82-83 time frame.
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 5, 2006
                          Brendan:

                          OK , the Haarman references are definitely 1782-83. I was referring to
                          1780-81. I agree with the black cuff for both corps in the 82-83 time
                          frame. Both corps were cantoned together(in Huntington, Long Island)
                          and I know the QR's were hurting for clothes and materials. I can
                          plainly see the junior officers now commanding each of those corps
                          getting together and economizing on one coat.
                          That dragoon troop who arrived in Virginia with basically nothing, was
                          Capt. Cooke's troop, late of the 17th dragoons.Saunders never left
                          Charleston till 1782, and seemed not to hurt for supplies. The
                          quartermaster of his troop was even doling out gear to other
                          Provincial dragoon troops being raised there.That quartermaster even
                          makes mention of teaching the carbine exercise while there,surprising
                          since carbines seem to have been in short supply.

                          Gary Corrado, QR

                          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdtm2004" <BDTMorrissey@a...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Corrado" <qrranger@y...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Your reference to the dragoons is interesting. Rather I thought it
                          > > was the other way around, where Tarleton got the idea of the
                          > > sleeved waistcoats from his prior campaigning with the Rangers soon
                          > > after the formation of the Legion. It also appears the dragoons of
                          > > both corps wore the same accoutrements. Soon after a newly raised
                          > > troop of QR dragoons joined the Rangers in Virginia "without a
                          > > single cavalry, appointment, or arms" according to Simcoe,their new
                          > > equipment was instead sent to the Legion, by direct order of
                          > > Cornwallis. The Legion were hurting for equipment at that point,
                          > > also wearing white according to Simcoe, not green. So it is more
                          > > of a case of the Legion wearing Ranger dragoon gear, rather than
                          > > the other way around.
                          > >
                          >
                          > Gary,
                          >
                          > Thanks for the info on headgear. Interesting that you mention a brim -
                          > do you think they would have added peaks? (The Murray watercolours
                          > don't show any, but it was a widespread source of complaint about
                          > the "Keppel" light infantry cap.)
                          >
                          > As regards your comments above, we may be talking about different
                          > periods. I had gained the impression from some articles I'd read
                          > (but chiefly the Haarman one in JSAHR) that post-Yorktown - maybe the
                          > 1782 clothing issue? - the green jacket with black cuffs and collars
                          > was sent out to both corps, possibly as an economy measure. I have a
                          > copy of Haarman's article somewhere and I shall try and dig it out to
                          > quote. Is the light dragoon troop you refer to that of Saunders, or
                          > is it another?
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          > Brendan Morrissey
                          >
                          > > Gary Corrado, QR
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > -- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdtm2004" <BDTMorrissey@a...> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Greg,
                          > > >
                          > > > Further to Gary's answers, it seems likely that green-faced-green
                          > > was
                          > > > the uniform throughout the unit's active period (ie from the
                          > > > Philadelphia campaign until their capture at Yorktown in 1781).
                          > > The
                          > > > main body of the regiment - the battalion companies - were
                          > probably
                          > > > dressed similarly to the grenadiers, but without the latter's
                          > > > distinctions. By the way, the centre companies were not
                          > riflemen,
                          > > as
                          > > > is sometimes stated - th:at is a mistake made by Lefferts whilst
                          > he
                          > > > was researching the unit and got it confused it with a later
                          > > version
                          > > > raised in Canada.
                          > > >
                          > > > Simcoe refers to leather caps replacing poor quality "contract
                          > > hats"
                          > > > (usually assumed to be either laced tricornes, or part-cocked -
                          > > > ie "slouch" - hats) around 1780-81. Also about that time, part
                          > of
                          > > > the regiment was supposed to have received similar uniforms to
                          > the
                          > > > British Legion - ie green faced black; I suspect that this was
                          > just
                          > > > the Light Dragoons, as the BL no longer had any integral infantry
                          > > by
                          > > > then. As to headgear, I'd be interested in Gary's thoughts on
                          > what
                          > > > would have been worn in the South, as many Regular units put
                          > their
                          > > > grenadier and light infantry caps into storage to protect them as
                          > > the
                          > > > war progressed and increasingly wore normal hats (plain or
                          > modified)
                          > > > in the field. Would the hussar and grenadier caps have been too
                          > > much
                          > > > in that heat? Would the regiment as a whole have donned hats
                          > given
                          > > > Simcoe's remarks about the previous batch?
                          > > >
                          > > > The entire unit usually served together (apart from one dragoon
                          > > troop
                          > > > in Charleston, SC, and another in NYC during 1780-81) and was a
                          > > true
                          > > > legionary corps in that respect. The grenadiers were also with
                          > the
                          > > > regiment in the South and Ewald leads that company, the light
                          > > company
                          > > > and one battalion company in a counter-attack against rifle-armed
                          > > > militia at Spencer's Ordinary in June 1781. The Highland
                          > company,
                          > > as
                          > > > Gary says, functioned primarily as a second light company and
                          > > either
                          > > > used Government sett from official stores, or may perhaps - my
                          > > > speculation here - have borrowed kilts from Regular troops who
                          > were
                          > > > switching to overalls (at least one, possibly two, other
                          > Provincial
                          > > > units are known to have done this).
                          > > >
                          > > > Hope this helps.
                          > > >
                          > > > Regards,
                          > > > Brendan Morrissey
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
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