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Re: Epaulettes & Sashs

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  • donhagist
    I can answer question 1, concerning the crown forces: Yes, there was a standard system for epaulettes used during the war. It was included in the 1768 clothing
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 29, 2005
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      I can answer question 1, concerning the crown forces:
      Yes, there was a standard system for epaulettes used during the war.
      It was included in the 1768 clothing warrant. It is quite simple:

      - Corporals wear one silk epaulette on the right shoulder.
      - Infantry officers wear one epaulette on the right shoulder, with the
      exception of
      - Officers of grenadier and light infantry companies, who wear an
      epaulet on each shoulder.

      That's it. The style of the epaulettes was not specified, nor was
      there any way to distinguish the rank of an officer by his epaulettes
      (or any other part of his uniform, for that matter).
      This is the warranted system; certainly there were individual
      exceptions here and there.
      British private soldiers' coats had a cloth strap on one shoulder to
      secure the pouch strap. This cloth strap was often trimmed with
      regimental lace, and so could be construed as an epaulette. Some
      regiments may have had them on both shoulders, when wearing the
      bayonet on a shoulder belt came into vogue during the course of the war.
      There is a reenactorism that British regimental field officers
      (Colonels, Lt. Colonels and Majors) wore two epaulettes. I don't know
      where this information comes from, but it is not part of the clothing
      warrant. See the clothing warrant here:
      http://users.erols.com/candidus/clothing.htm
      Don N. Hagist
      22d Regt. of Foot
      Author of "A British Soldier's Story: Roger Lamb's Narrative of the
      American Revolution" available from http://www.willowbendbooks.com

      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Larry Maxwell <Patriot1775@v...> wrote:
      > Greetings List!
      > I have a couple of questions re; epaulettes & sashs. I have found
      > conflicting information.
      > 1. Did Crown Forces have a standard system for Epaulettes which was
      > consistently used for NCOs and Officers during the Rev War? If so,
      > could you briefly explain it.
      > 2. One source I read said the use of Epaulettes varied throughout the
      > War. One source said some NCOs used a strip of cloth, while others had
      > regular worsted epaulettes. Some wore one, while others of the same
      > rank wore two. I have read that officers provided their own and that
      > the style and use varied. I also read it was not until 1780 that
      > general orders were issued and followed for epaulettes. Was there a
      > consistent standard throughout the war? Was it followed? Was their a
      > consistent change?
      > 3. Was there a consistent use of sashs by either side?
      > 4. Were sashs issued or did the men get them made themselves?
      > 5. How does a Rev War sash differ from a Civil War sash?
      > I am trying to reslove conflicting info in my research.
      > Thank You Kindly!
      > Dr. Larry A. Maxwell, 4th NY
      > Dr. Larry A. Maxwell
    • Todd Post
      Larry, Again, there are no broad general answers to broad general questions when it comes to the Continental Army. It is going to depend on what state and
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 29, 2005
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        Larry,

        Again, there are no broad general answers to broad general questions when it comes to the Continental Army. It is going to depend on what state and what time of the war.

        In 1775, Virginia is using halberds and "cutting swords" for their serjeants and "cutting swords" for corporals. In 1774 and early 1775 Washington was purchasing gold shoulder knots for the serjeants of the Fairfax Independent Company. In 1776, serjeants were to have different colored cuffs on their hunting shirts and corporals were to have the same shirts as enlisted men with the addition of "some red twist...put then in the way of making a knot..."

        Of course, none of this is applicable outside of Virginia during these years. Up in the north, general orders with the Main Army stated: "As the Continental Army have unfortunately no Uniforms, and consequently many inconveniences must arise, from not being able always to distinguish the Commissioned Officers, from the non Commissioned, and the Non Commissioned from the private; it is desired that some Badges of Distinction may be immediately provided, for Instance, the Field Officers may have red or pink colour?d Cockades in their Hatts: the Captains yellow or buff: and the Subalterns green. They are to furnish themselves accordingly. The Serjeants may be distinguished by an Epaulette, or stripe of red Cloth, sewed upon the right shoulder; the Corporals by one of green." Joseph Plum Martin writes about the colored cockades as well, so while this was being used by the Connecticut troops in 1776, it obviously wasn't being done in Virginia.

        I find no evidence of the white worsted epaulettes for NCOs until 1782: "The Clothier is, if practicable, to obtain worsted shoulder Knotts for the Non-commissioned Officers. The serjeants are to be distinguishd by one on each shoulder, and the Corporals by one on the right. In the mean time it is proposed that a piece of white Cloth should be substituted by way of distinction."

        If you want general practices, check the Washington Papers online at the Library of Congress, but understand that there is going to be significant variation from state to state, year to year, despite what the general orders say.

        Cheers,
        Todd
      • rgrokelley
        Howdy, ... We touched on this one last year about this time. In the Continental army a myriad of different devices showed up, from shoulder knots and hat
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 29, 2005
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          Howdy,

          >Joseph Plum Martin writes about the colored cockades as well, so
          >while this was being used by the Connecticut troops in 1776, it
          >obviously wasn't being done in Virginia.

          We touched on this one last year about this time. In the
          Continental army a myriad of different devices showed up, from
          shoulder knots and hat edging to epaulettes. No one thing is being
          used by all the different units. Though Washington put out that
          general order when he first took over in 1775, it doesn't seem to be
          adhered to by most, if not all.
          It seems that each state came up with their own identification
          marks as it appealed to them.
          I have not been able to document any marks of rank on any North
          Carolina troops. They most likely had something, but I can't find
          any descriptions of what they are wearing. I can't find any orders
          for sashes, or epaulettes, for the rank and file NCOs either.
          So most of the time if I am in charge I will wear the minimum, or
          nothing at all.

          Patrick O'Kelley
          goober.com@...
        • Larry Maxwell
          Thank you Dn for such a helpful post! Larry
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 29, 2005
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            Thank you Dn for such a helpful post!
            Larry
          • avalonf@bcpl.net
            Tim I would like to purchase a few tickets. Where should I send my check and who should it be made to? -- John White Avalon Forge Baltimore All Manner of
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 25, 2005
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              Tim

              I would like to purchase a few tickets. Where should I send my check and
              who should it be made to?

              --
              John White
              Avalon Forge
              Baltimore
              "All Manner of Replicas for Living History"
              http://www.avalonforge.com



              Tim wrote:

              >Some of you may remember that my site, Jerusalem Mill
              >Village, held a raffle for a Pedersoli Charleville a
              >little over two years ago.
              >
              >Well... we're back with another offer.
              >
              >This time it's a Maryland Contract Musket, patterned
              >after the "2nd Model Brown Bess", with some minor
              >changes. This style musket was produced here at
              >Jerusalem Mill Village (and elsewhere in Maryland)
              >during the early Rev. War years.
              >
              >Features:
              >+ flat face lock
              >+ walnut stock (stained with aqua fortis)
              >+ 75 cal.
              >+ bayonet lug
              >+ steel ramrod
              >
              >Tickets are $5.00 each or 5 for $20.00, and are
              >avaiable by mail. Drawing will be held when our limit
              >of 500 tickets are sold. Contact me at
              >twoshot60@... or jerusalemmill@... for
              >details or to get tickets.
              >
              >Proceeds will benefit the Friends of Jerusalem Mills
              >(501c3) living history and restoration programs.
              >
              >Regards,
              >Tim Jewell
              >
              >
              >
            • Tim
              Hi John, A check can be made out and sent to: Friends of Jerusalem Mill P.O. Box 480 Kingsville, MD. 21087 attn. Tim Jewell tickets are $5.00 ea. or 5 for
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 25, 2005
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                Hi John,

                A check can be made out and sent to:

                Friends of Jerusalem Mill
                P.O. Box 480
                Kingsville, MD. 21087
                attn. Tim Jewell

                tickets are $5.00 ea. or 5 for $20.00

                I'm still a little behind getting ticket requests out
                as the cold/flu I thought I had, ended up being Lyme
                Disease, but I should be caught up by the end of this
                week or so. I should also have pictures posted on our
                web site by then.

                I thank everybody for their patience!
                Tim
                Friends of Jerusalem Mill

                --- avalonf@... wrote:

                > Tim
                >
                > I would like to purchase a few tickets. Where should
                > I send my check and
                > who should it be made to?
                >
                > --
                > John White
                > Avalon Forge
                > Baltimore
                > "All Manner of Replicas for Living History"
                > http://www.avalonforge.com
                >
                >
                >
                > Tim wrote:
                >
                > >Some of you may remember that my site, Jerusalem
                > Mill
                > >Village, held a raffle for a Pedersoli Charleville
                > a
                > >little over two years ago.
                > >
                > >Well... we're back with another offer.
                > >
                > >This time it's a Maryland Contract Musket,
                > patterned
                > >after the "2nd Model Brown Bess", with some minor
                > >changes. This style musket was produced here at
                > >Jerusalem Mill Village (and elsewhere in Maryland)
                > >during the early Rev. War years.
                > >
                > >Features:
                > >+ flat face lock
                > >+ walnut stock (stained with aqua fortis)
                > >+ 75 cal.
                > >+ bayonet lug
                > >+ steel ramrod
                > >
                > >Tickets are $5.00 each or 5 for $20.00, and are
                > >avaiable by mail. Drawing will be held when our
                > limit
                > >of 500 tickets are sold. Contact me at
                > >twoshot60@... or jerusalemmill@... for
                > >details or to get tickets.
                > >
                > >Proceeds will benefit the Friends of Jerusalem
                > Mills
                > >(501c3) living history and restoration programs.
                > >
                > >Regards,
                > >Tim Jewell




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              • Scott
                Greetings List! The Friends of Fort Dobbs invite you to participate in a raffle for a replica French and Indian War era musket. All proceeds from the event
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 9, 2012
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                  Greetings List!
                  The Friends of Fort Dobbs invite you to participate in a raffle for a replica French and Indian War era musket. All proceeds from the event will go to our capital campaign fund which is being used to help build a full scale replica of the 1756 blockhouse fort!

                  Who: Proceeds go to the Friends of Fort Dobbs Capital Campaign Fund.

                  What: Fully functioning 1756 Pattern Long Land Brown Bess Musket replica from Middlesex Village Trading Company.

                  When: Tickets are on sale now! The raffle will be on Sunday April 1st.

                  Where: The raffle will be at Noon on Sunday April 1st during the War for Empire event at:
                  Fort Dobbs State Historic Site
                  438 Fort Dobbs Rd
                  Statesville, NC 28625

                  You do not have to be in attendance to win the prize! For more information on the musket, visit http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/M1BB.shtml

                  Ticket Prices:

                  1 – $10.00

                  5 - $40.00

                  10 - $90.00

                  To buy tickets:

                  Visit Fort Dobbs State Historic Site Tuesday – Saturday from 9 -5.

                  Order by phone: Call 704-873-5882 and ask for Genn or Scott

                  For more information call 704-873-5882 (ask for Genn or Scott) or e-mail genn.reiter@...
                • Timothy Abbott
                  I carry that very musket and am very happy both with it and with the service from MVTC. Tim Abbott 1st NJ Regt. (Col. Ogden s) ________________________________
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 9, 2012
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                    I carry that very musket and am very happy both with it and with the service
                    from MVTC.

                    Tim Abbott
                    1st NJ Regt. (Col. Ogden's)




                    ________________________________
                    From: Scott <cornwllis@...>
                    To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, February 9, 2012 10:53:11 AM
                    Subject: [Revlist] Musket Raffle


                    Greetings List!
                    The Friends of Fort Dobbs invite you to participate in a raffle for a replica
                    French and Indian War era musket. All proceeds from the event will go to our
                    capital campaign fund which is being used to help build a full scale replica of
                    the 1756 blockhouse fort!

                    Who: Proceeds go to the Friends of Fort Dobbs Capital Campaign Fund.

                    What: Fully functioning 1756 Pattern Long Land Brown Bess Musket replica from
                    Middlesex Village Trading Company.


                    When: Tickets are on sale now! The raffle will be on Sunday April 1st.

                    Where: The raffle will be at Noon on Sunday April 1st during the War for Empire
                    event at:

                    Fort Dobbs State Historic Site
                    438 Fort Dobbs Rd
                    Statesville, NC 28625

                    You do not have to be in attendance to win the prize! For more information on
                    the musket, visit http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/M1BB.shtml

                    Ticket Prices:

                    1 – $10.00

                    5 - $40.00

                    10 - $90.00

                    To buy tickets:

                    Visit Fort Dobbs State Historic Site Tuesday – Saturday from 9 -5.

                    Order by phone: Call 704-873-5882 and ask for Genn or Scott

                    For more information call 704-873-5882 (ask for Genn or Scott) or e-mail
                    genn.reiter@...




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