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death of enoch poor (query)

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  • ju_rees18938
    I m doing an article on Lafayette s 1780 light division, and one of the brigade commanders was General Enoch Poor. I believe someone on Revlist posited that
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 1, 2004
      I'm doing an article on Lafayette's 1780 light division, and one of
      the brigade commanders was General Enoch Poor. I believe someone on
      Revlist posited that Poor did not die of illness, but was mortally
      wounded in a duel. Does anyone have knowledge of this?

      Cheers,

      John Rees
    • Todd Post
      John, He was shot in a duel near Hackensack, New Jersey, on September 6, 1780. Two days later he died from the wound, and was buried in the churchyard of the
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 1, 2004
        John,

        He was shot in a duel near Hackensack, New Jersey, on September 6,
        1780. Two days later he died from the wound, and was buried in the
        churchyard of the First Reformed Church in Hackensack

        You can find photos of his grave at
        http://hackensackhigh.org/~rkc/hackensack/poor/poor.html

        Todd Post
        2d Virginia Regiment
        www.secondvirginia.org

        "The heroism and gallantry of the second Virginia regiment I cannot
        help particularly mentioning; they would do honour to any country in
        the world. It is universally believed they behaved the best of any
        troops in the field."
        — Virginia Gazette, October 17, 1777

        On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:22 PM, ju_rees18938 wrote:

        >
        >
        > I'm doing an article on Lafayette's 1780 light division, and one of
        > the brigade commanders was General Enoch Poor. I believe someone on
        > Revlist posited that Poor did not die of illness, but was mortally
        > wounded in a duel. Does anyone have knowledge of this?
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > John Rees
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Visit the RevList Homepage, which includes a list of sutlers, RevList
        > member photos, FAQ, etc., at
        >
        > http://www.liming.org/revlist/
        >
        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: please send a message to
        > Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Roofus@aol.com
        John & List: A conspiracy theory (or the real story ) first emerged during the 19th century, based on: Ames, Ellis. The Duel Between General Poor and Major
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 1, 2004
          John & List:

          A "conspiracy theory" (or "the real story") first emerged during the 19th
          century, based on:

          Ames, Ellis. "The Duel Between General Poor and Major Porter", Massachusetts
          Historical Society Proceedings 19 (1882): 256 -61.

          I have a copy of the article around the hut here somewhere and will try to
          pop it out if anyone wishes a copy. As I recall, it was one of those classic T.
          J. Jackson-style dressing downs in which one of Poor's (temporary) regimental
          commanders was late in getting his men on the march and ol' Enoch verbally
          tore into him, in public, like the chainsaw scene in "Scarface." A challenge was
          issued and accepted, as the story goes, and the general's "fever" ends up to
          have been from, shall we say, acute onset lead poisoning.

          As I recall the article, its author was writing from a second- or third-hand
          account, he having interviewed someone with a direct link to an eyewitness. A
          major part of the account, of course, is that the good of the service required
          a cover-up, thus the created "bilious fever" story. IMO, the duel explanation
          may be credible, for two reasons: 1) contemporary comments on his death are
          strikingly few, including a total absence of any mention whatsoever within the
          GW Papers (not even to the Congress or Board), and 2) the existence of one or
          two (at most) other "early" sources that at least hinted toward that cause.
          Although the absence of evidence hardly proves anything, the silence as to
          Poor's death across the array of Continental sources in diaries and correspondence,
          if not "deafening", is quite eerie.

          I just ran a Google search on ... "Enoch Poor" duel ... and got 40 hits,
          i.e., mentions of the duel as his cause of death, including some qualified such as
          "... either from fever or as the result of a duel." The point is that "the
          story" has apparently grown legs and may now be the standard obit. Whether true
          or not, its popular.

          My apologies for the cobwebbed memory at the moment.


          Cordially,

          Bob McDonald


          I had a chance to see the American Army, man for man. ... It is incredible
          that soldiers composed of men of every age, even children of fifteen, of whites
          and blacks, unpaid and rather poorly fed, can march so fast and withstand fire
          so steadfastly.

          Baron J. C. L. von Closen
          White Plains, New York
          July 1781

          For Superb Primary Resources: www.RevWar75.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • IVBNNJV@aol.com
          In a message dated 11/1/2004 10:22:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, ju_rees@msn.com writes: I m doing an article on Lafayette s 1780 light division, and one of the
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 2, 2004
            In a message dated 11/1/2004 10:22:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
            ju_rees@... writes:
            I'm doing an article on Lafayette's 1780 light division, and one of
            the brigade commanders was General Enoch Poor. I believe someone on
            Revlist posited that Poor did not die of illness, but was mortally
            wounded in a duel. Does anyone have knowledge of this?
            Hi John

            A couple of deserters at the time mentioned to the British that Poor had been
            ill, but not many. I'm not sure any even mentioned he died, maybe one. He
            is buried at the Hackensack Church on the Green across from the courthouse.

            Dueling was a problem during the time of these forages into Bergen County in
            August/September 1780. This is an extract of a letter from Lew Morris, Junior
            to Lewis Morris Esquire, dated English Neighbourhood, 28 August 1780:

            "Peter van Brook's son William A. Livingston was killed in a duel
            yesterday by Lt. Stakre the Butcher's son - and the day before Captain Peyton of Colo.
            Moylan's Regt. by Adjutant Overton of the same. Fatal business this."

            Source: Letters to General Lewis Morris, "Collections of the New-York
            Historical Society for the Year 1875," Pages 464-466.

            Todd W. Braisted
            4th Battalion, New Jersey Volunteers
            IVBNNJV@...
            www.royalprovincial.com


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Greg Ketcham
            All: Why do I seem to remember that the duel was between Poor and a French officer- and in the interest of preserving the alliance, a cover up ensued? This
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 2, 2004
              All:
              Why do I seem to remember that the duel was between Poor and a French
              officer- and in the interest of preserving the alliance, a cover up
              ensued? This nugget is either in the revlist archives, or it's hiding
              on my hard drive somewhere. Just changed computers, it'll take a while
              to dredge it up...

              regards,
              Greg Ketcham
              2nd Regt., Albany County Militia


              On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 05:13:21 EST, ivbnnjv@... <ivbnnjv@...> wrote:
              > In a message dated 11/1/2004 10:22:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
              > ju_rees@... writes:
              > I'm doing an article on Lafayette's 1780 light division, and one of
              > the brigade commanders was General Enoch Poor. I believe someone on
              > Revlist posited that Poor did not die of illness, but was mortally
              > wounded in a duel. Does anyone have knowledge of this?
              > Hi John
              >
              > A couple of deserters at the time mentioned to the British that Poor had
              > been
              > ill, but not many. I'm not sure any even mentioned he died, maybe one. He
              > is buried at the Hackensack Church on the Green across from the courthouse.
              >
              > Dueling was a problem during the time of these forages into Bergen County in
              > August/September 1780. This is an extract of a letter from Lew Morris,
              > Junior
              > to Lewis Morris Esquire, dated English Neighbourhood, 28 August 1780:
              >
              > "Peter van Brook's son William A. Livingston was killed in a duel
              > yesterday by Lt. Stakre the Butcher's son - and the day before Captain
              > Peyton of Colo.
              > Moylan's Regt. by Adjutant Overton of the same. Fatal business this."
              >
              > Source: Letters to General Lewis Morris, "Collections of the New-York
              > Historical Society for the Year 1875," Pages 464-466.
              >
              > Todd W. Braisted
              > 4th Battalion, New Jersey Volunteers
              > IVBNNJV@...
              > www.royalprovincial.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Visit the RevList Homepage, which includes a list of sutlers, RevList member
              > photos, FAQ, etc., at
              >
              > http://www.liming.org/revlist/
              >
              > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: please send a message to
              > Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.
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            • barbmvd@aol.com
              The Enoch Poor duel had nothing to do with the French - Poor had antagonized Major John Porter who commanded his own unit (he was an ordained minister, Harvard
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 2, 2004
                The Enoch Poor duel had nothing to do with the French - Poor had antagonized
                Major John Porter who commanded his own unit (he was an ordained minister,
                Harvard grad) of the Bridgewaters in Massachusetts and had provoked the duel.
                Poor was fatally injured. The coverup was in Porter being sent into exile and
                never returning home. This has been discussed here and is probably somewhere in
                the archives.

                ~Barbara

                Barbara M. Delorey
                Researching 18c New England
                The Barrett Women


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • JOSEPH LEE BOYLE
                At least two contemporary accounts state he died of illness. As Dearborn was a field officer in Poor s Brigade, he would seem to be highly credible. The secret
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 2, 2004
                  At least two contemporary accounts state he died of illness. As Dearborn was a
                  field officer in Poor's Brigade, he would seem to be highly credible.

                  The secret duel account seems far too much like the too common romantic
                  fabrications of the nineteenth century. A number of other duels between
                  generals are widely mentioned such as McIntosh v. Qwinnett and Conway v.
                  Cadwallader.



                  September 9, 1780
                  �Last Night Died B. General Poor of a Short Illness he is much lamented by all
                  ranks in the Army as he was a Brave Office an a worthy member of Society��
                  September 10, 1780
                  �The Corpse of B. General Poor was enterr�d this afternoon at Hackinsack with
                  all respect Due to so Worthy a Character��
                  213.
                  William A. Ellis, ed. �The Diary of William S. Pennington,� Proceedings of the
                  New Jersey Historical Society new series 63 (1945), 213.
                  Officer in the Second Artillery


                  September 8, 1780
                  �General Poor died at 11 0�clock this evening.�
                  September 10, 1780
                  �Gen�l Poor buried at Hackensack this afternoon. No firing over the corpse.�
                  �Diary of Events in the Army,� Pennsylvania in the War of The Revolution,
                  Battalions and Line, ed. John Blair Linn & William H. Egle (Harrisburg: Lane S.
                  Hart, 1890), 2:575.

                  September 8
                  �this evining ye Honbe. Brigadeer Genl. Poor departed this life after labouring
                  under a severe bilious fever 13 days, very universally lamented by the Genls. &
                  other officers of the army.�
                  Dearborn, Journals, 202-3.
                  �the remains of Genl. Poor was Interd at Hackinsack, attended by his Excellency
                  Genl. Washington all the Genls. & most of the other officers of the army,
                  together with a Regt. of Infantry, detachments of Cavelry, Artillery, with a
                  band of musick. the prosession was truly Solemn & well conducted.
                  the death of so valuable an officer as the Genl. is a very great loss to the
                  army & to his Brigade in particular.�
                  Dearborn, Journals, 203.


                  On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:08:30 +0000, Todd Post wrote:

                  >
                  > John,
                  >
                  > He was shot in a duel near Hackensack, New Jersey, on September 6,
                  > 1780. Two days later he died from the wound, and was buried in the
                  > churchyard of the First Reformed Church in Hackensack
                  >
                  > You can find photos of his grave at
                  > http://hackensackhigh.org/~rkc/hackensack/poor/poor.html
                  >
                  > Todd Post
                  > 2d Virginia Regiment
                  > www.secondvirginia.org
                  >
                  > "The heroism and gallantry of the second Virginia regiment I cannot
                  > help particularly mentioning; they would do honour to any country in
                  > the world. It is universally believed they behaved the best of any
                  > troops in the field."
                  > � Virginia Gazette, October 17, 1777
                  >
                  > On Nov 1, 2004, at 10:22 PM, ju_rees18938 wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I'm doing an article on Lafayette's 1780 light division, and one of
                  > > the brigade commanders was General Enoch Poor. I believe someone on
                  > > Revlist posited that Poor did not die of illness, but was mortally
                  > > wounded in a duel. Does anyone have knowledge of this?
                  > >
                  > > Cheers,
                  > >
                  > > John Rees
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Visit the RevList Homepage, which includes a list of sutlers, RevList
                  > > member photos, FAQ, etc., at
                  > >
                  > > http://www.liming.org/revlist/
                  > >
                  > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: please send a message to
                  > > Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Visit the RevList Homepage, which includes a list of sutlers, RevList member
                  photos, FAQ, etc., at
                  >
                  > http://www.liming.org/revlist/
                  >
                  > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: please send a message to
                  > Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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