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Re: [Revlist] Re: ZULU

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  • Jay Callaham
    ... From: gstk1776 To: Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 7:18 AM Subject: [Revlist] Re: ZULU ... So, the movie
    Message 1 of 26 , Jan 2, 2004
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "gstk1776" <gstk1776@...>
      To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 7:18 AM
      Subject: [Revlist] Re: ZULU


      > Dear List,
      >
      > For those wondering what ZULU has to do with our period......
      >
      > Lieutenant General Sir Gonville Bromhead
      >
      > Born 30th September 1758,

      So, the movie was also wrong when Bromhead said that his grandfather "knelt
      beside Wolfe at Quebec."

      Also, the good Surgeon Reynolds, who was so anti-"butchers" in the movie, in
      reality, shortly after the battle collected a pair of very calloused,
      "almost like wood," soles from the feet of a dead Zulu as a souvenir.

      And the Boer - Adendorf - disappeared before the battle even started.

      And, "Durnford's Horse" whose commander said "I know what my men think of
      Zulus" - was in reality a black unit.

      Don't get your history from movies. Enjoy them, but don't trust them.

      Cheers!

      Jay
      Cm Gds
      4th Coy, Bde of Guards
    • davisr1@lee.army.mil
      There was one incident in the movie (whether accurate or not) that I have used frequently to illustrate to this less than desirably disciplined modern army ,
      Message 2 of 26 , Jan 2, 2004
        There was one incident in the movie (whether accurate or not) that I have
        used frequently to illustrate to this "less than desirably disciplined
        modern army", that it is battlefield discipline that is so imperative to
        winning. The scene was along the perimeter as this company of terrified
        British soldiers are awaiting another attack by 500-godzillion Zulu's. The
        Color Sergeant is strutting the line and remarks to one soldier "Jones
        (whatever the soldier's name was), button your pocket!" The fear of the
        troops was immediately diverted from the enemy to the
        retribution/disciplinary control of the Color Sergeant, ergo: "the immediate
        and unhesitating response to orders." The well trained and disciplined
        soldier can and will respond to leaders orders, even under the most severe
        of circumstances. This later played out (in the movie) when the Brits were
        ordered to attack with their "rolling fire" formation - though totally
        outmanned, the trained discipline gave them an overwhelming fire-power
        advantage over their out-numbering enemy. An unbuttoned pocket may seem to
        be an inconsequential observation, however it is not the pocket, but the
        response to the correction -- the order -- that is imperative. We can find
        this all over our period of the Rev War, and most other wars.

        Bob D.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Jay Callaham [mailto:callaham@...]
        Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 9:03 AM
        To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: ZULU

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "gstk1776" <gstk1776@...>
        To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 7:18 AM
        Subject: [Revlist] Re: ZULU


        > Dear List,
        >
        > For those wondering what ZULU has to do with our period......
        >
        > Lieutenant General Sir Gonville Bromhead
        >
        > Born 30th September 1758,

        So, the movie was also wrong when Bromhead said that his grandfather "knelt
        beside Wolfe at Quebec."

        Also, the good Surgeon Reynolds, who was so anti-"butchers" in the movie, in
        reality, shortly after the battle collected a pair of very calloused,
        "almost like wood," soles from the feet of a dead Zulu as a souvenir.

        And the Boer - Adendorf - disappeared before the battle even started.

        And, "Durnford's Horse" whose commander said "I know what my men think of
        Zulus" - was in reality a black unit.

        Don't get your history from movies. Enjoy them, but don't trust them.

        Cheers!

        Jay
        Cm Gds
        4th Coy, Bde of Guards



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John Welsh
        Fire power determines tactics. Using old tactics with advances in firepower caused massacres in the Civil War, WWI especially. ... From:
        Message 3 of 26 , Jan 2, 2004
          Fire power determines tactics. Using old tactics with advances in firepower
          caused massacres in the Civil War, WWI especially.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <JOEWHITNEY@...>
          To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 10:15 AM
          Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: ZULU


          > Well, let's see: linear tactics? How about British Army fighting locals
          who
          > want independence, and for occupation forces to get out? Everything's
          connected
          > somehow, you know.
          >
          > On the other hand, this time, the British Army didn't get it's butt kicked
          > this time. But they did eventually lose that colony, too. Some lessons
          have to
          > be learned over and over again (have we learned yet?)
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          > Visit the RevList Homepage, which includes a list of sutlers, RevList
          member photos, FAQ, etc., at
          >
          > http://www.liming.org/revlist/
          >
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          > with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.
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          >
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          >
          >
          >
        • John Welsh
          The 24th Welsh Borders was a Welsh regiment. Ich dien...I serve. Nadolig Llawen...Merry Christmas! For more on Roarke s drift and the campaign read Washing of
          Message 4 of 26 , Jan 2, 2004
            The 24th Welsh Borders was a Welsh regiment. Ich dien...I serve. Nadolig
            Llawen...Merry Christmas! For more on Roarke's drift and the campaign read
            Washing of the Spears.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <JOEWHITNEY@...>
            To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 8:41 AM
            Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: ZULU


            > As I recall, the movie's battle scenes were also completely inaccurate in
            > showing the Zulus stupidly charging en masse, only to be mowed down. In
            reality,
            > they all crawled forward through the grass, and only stood up just before
            > assualting the defences, which makes the British victory even more
            miraculous.
            >
            > The director needed to show the Zulu extras how he wanted them to act, so
            he
            > had them all view a John Huston western, and told them to act like the
            indians.
            >
            > The emphasis on Welshmen probably sprang from the fact that Baker was born
            in
            > a Welsh village.
            >
            > Hook's descendants now have their chance to correct the wrongs done to his
            > reputation, since his grandson runs an excellent Rourke's Drift website.
            >
            > The movie Zulu Dawn presented a much more accurate picture of the period
            > tactics, including sending a boy out to install distance markers just
            prior to a
            > battle. This allowed the men to make good use of their adjustable range
            sights.
            >
            > "...droves of us began chanting "Uthulu"--or something to that effect."
            Could
            > it have been "Ulundi", the Zulu "capital"?
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            > Visit the RevList Homepage, which includes a list of sutlers, RevList
            member photos, FAQ, etc., at
            >
            > http://www.liming.org/revlist/
            >
            > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: please send a message to
            > Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Revlist/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • eric_schnitzer@nps.gov
            I don t have a Bromhead family tree, but a likely closer relation to our Gonville Bromhead of the 62d Regiment in the 1777 northern campaign was the major of
            Message 5 of 26 , Jan 2, 2004
              I don't have a Bromhead family tree, but a likely closer relation to our
              Gonville Bromhead of the 62d Regiment in the 1777 northern campaign was the
              major of the Regiment, Boardman Bromhead. Well, make that major of the
              regiment up until c. 1770/71 or so. Probably an uncle...or his father.
              Little Gonville, age 12, entered the officer corps at that time as the
              quarter master of the regiment (he was later commissioned at about age 15
              as an ensign).

              I am,
              Your Most Humble Servant,
              Eric Schnitzer
              Lieutenant, 62d Regiment of Foot and ADC

              "The rebel officers' behavior is admirable; their discipline is just as good
              as though they belonged to real regiments and were real soldiers."

              -Brigadier WR von Gall to The Prince of Hessen-Hanau,
              Cambridge MA, March 1778


              >
              > So, the movie was also wrong when Bromhead said that his
              > grandfather "knelt beside Wolfe at Quebec."
              >

              Jay and List,

              Unless of course he was one of the guys who bought a place in
              Benjamin West's famous painting (isn't that a crib just behind the
              Indian next to Wolfe's feet????).

              Another ancestor, the Rev. Edward Bromhead, was Chaplain of the 27th
              Foot in the 1770s, but I haven't been able to find out if he went to
              America with his regiment.

              Regards

              Brendan Morrissey

              ps: I think that the cry everyone is talking about is "Usuthu!"
              ("Kill!").
            • John White
              Joe The cry uttered by the Zulu warriors was USUTHU. A little internet search finds that was the name of Cetshwayo s chiefdom. Go to
              Message 6 of 26 , Jan 2, 2004
                Joe

                The cry uttered by the Zulu warriors was USUTHU. A little internet
                search finds that was the name of Cetshwayo's chiefdom. Go to
                http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Rotunda/2209/Zululand.html

                If I recall correctly, the USUTHU info was passed on to me by a fellow
                reenactor who spent several years with our state department working in
                Zululand.

                (We REALLY should get back to the 18th century), he said somewhat
                reluctantly.


                John White
                Avalon Forge
                Baltimore
                "All Manner of Replicas for Living History"
                http://www.avalonforge.com

                JOEWHITNEY@... wrote:
                > As I recall, the movie's battle scenes were also completely inaccurate in
                > showing the Zulus stupidly charging en masse, only to be mowed down. In reality,
                > they all crawled forward through the grass, and only stood up just before
                > assualting the defences, which makes the British victory even more miraculous.
                >
                > The director needed to show the Zulu extras how he wanted them to act, so he
                > had them all view a John Huston western, and told them to act like the indians.
                >
                > The emphasis on Welshmen probably sprang from the fact that Baker was born in
                > a Welsh village.
                >
                > Hook's descendants now have their chance to correct the wrongs done to his
                > reputation, since his grandson runs an excellent Rourke's Drift website.
                >
                > The movie Zulu Dawn presented a much more accurate picture of the period
                > tactics, including sending a boy out to install distance markers just prior to a
                > battle. This allowed the men to make good use of their adjustable range sights.
                >
                > "...droves of us began chanting "Uthulu"--or something to that effect." Could
                > it have been "Ulundi", the Zulu "capital"?
              • Joyce & Mike Barbieri
                ... Henris and fire some rounds in the back forty. But $2.50 each it s a bit pricy. ... It makes me want to get out a Martini, Henry. Dry, of course, for Natal
                Message 7 of 26 , Jan 2, 2004
                  --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, GuardsOfc@n... wrote:
                  > All this talk about Zulu make me want to get out one of Martin-
                  Henris and fire some rounds in the back forty. But $2.50 each it's a
                  bit pricy.
                  >
                  > Winston S. Stone
                  > Capt. & Lt. Col.
                  > 1st Guards
                  > Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense


                  It makes me want to get out a Martini, Henry. Dry, of course, for
                  Natal Province. $2.50 isn't bad for one of those rounds.

                  Mike Barbieri
                  Whitcomb's Corps
                • joewhitney1
                  I ll have to differ on that issue. Professor Paddy Griffith, a senior lecturer in war studies at the Royal Military Academy, wrote a fascinating book called
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jan 2, 2004
                    I'll have to differ on that issue. Professor Paddy Griffith, a senior
                    lecturer in war studies at the Royal Military Academy, wrote a
                    fascinating book called "Battle Tactics of the Civil War" where he
                    analyzed the casualty rates of Napoleonic battles and Civil War
                    battles. He also looked at the typical distance between firing lines
                    in earlier wars (like the Revolution; see, there's the tie-in!)and
                    the Civil War. He discovered that neither the casualties nor
                    distances were very different. For instance, at Leipzig in 1813,
                    casualties for the three days of fighting were around 127,000.

                    I wince every time some "historian" announces on the History
                    Channel, or reenactor tells the public, that the rifled musket
                    revolutionized weaponry, because now, "A man could hit a target at a
                    thousands yards!". In reality, CW battle lines were typically 50 to
                    100 yards apart, just like earlier wars.

                    Now, if they'd bothered to teach target practice so the men could
                    learn how to use their fancy range finding sites, as the Brits did in
                    Zulu Dawn, it would have been a different matter. Instead, they
                    emphasized volume of fire over accuracy, resulting in most rounds
                    sailing over the enemy's heads or burrowing into the ground. However,
                    the use of percussion caps over flintlocks was certainly an
                    improvement in reliability and weather resistance. But the Minie ball
                    was much slower and harder to ram after a few rounds started clogging
                    the bore. Certainly, the bullet would travel farther, and arrive with
                    more force, that a round ball, but that apparently didn't have a
                    great effect on the casualty rate. Now, when repeaters started to
                    show up late in the war, that's another matter.

                    In WWI, it was machine guns like the Maxim that caused the massacres.
                    Its inventor thought it would be so horrendous a weapon that it would
                    actually prevent wars (where have we heard that before?)
                  • Ernie
                    Hello, How does one find out about these men? I am trying to find out about Thomas Bartis. All I know from my parents is that he was in the British Army in the
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jan 2, 2004
                      Hello,

                      How does one find out about these men? I am trying to find out about Thomas Bartis. All I
                      know from my parents is that he was in the British Army in the 1770's. Is there a way I can find
                      out about this man without troubling anyone too much?

                      Thank you,
                      Ernie Bartis

                      On 2 Jan 2004 at 19:26, gstk1776 wrote:
                      > Another ancestor, the Rev. Edward Bromhead, was Chaplain of the 27th
                      > Foot in the 1770s, but I haven't been able to find out if he went to
                      > America with his regiment.
                      >
                      > Regards
                      >
                      > Brendan Morrissey
                    • John Welsh
                      Thanks for illuminating another shattered myth. I was in error in using it as an example, though the losses suffered in the Civil War were horrendous compared
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jan 2, 2004
                        Thanks for illuminating another shattered myth. I was in error in using it
                        as an example, though the losses suffered in the Civil War were horrendous
                        compared to previous actions. The first "modern" war. The Napoleonic battles
                        were horrible too, but there were more "Waterloos" fought in the Civil War
                        than the Napoleonic wars. But weaponry does decide tactical considerations.
                        The musket made pike phalanxes obsolete and even spelled the doom of cavalry
                        charges, as the long bow successfully depleted the ranks of French knights
                        at Crecy and Agincourt. During the Civil War cavalry played a relatively
                        minor role overall and infantry regiments were not obliged to form squares
                        against them. But tactics seems to lag behind new technological
                        considerations as generals generally fight the last war they were in. During
                        the "charge of the light brigade" against fixed Russian artillery batteries,
                        the British and French staff watched in horror. The French general Canrobert
                        remarked: "C'est magnifique. Mais ce n'est pas la guerre." (It's magnificent
                        but it's not war.")

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "joewhitney1" <JOEWHITNEY@...>
                        To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:45 PM
                        Subject: [Revlist] Re: Weaponry & Tactics


                        > I'll have to differ on that issue. Professor Paddy Griffith, a senior
                        > lecturer in war studies at the Royal Military Academy, wrote a
                        > fascinating book called "Battle Tactics of the Civil War" where he
                        > analyzed the casualty rates of Napoleonic battles and Civil War
                        > battles. He also looked at the typical distance between firing lines
                        > in earlier wars (like the Revolution; see, there's the tie-in!)and
                        > the Civil War. He discovered that neither the casualties nor
                        > distances were very different. For instance, at Leipzig in 1813,
                        > casualties for the three days of fighting were around 127,000.
                        >
                        > I wince every time some "historian" announces on the History
                        > Channel, or reenactor tells the public, that the rifled musket
                        > revolutionized weaponry, because now, "A man could hit a target at a
                        > thousands yards!". In reality, CW battle lines were typically 50 to
                        > 100 yards apart, just like earlier wars.
                        >
                        > Now, if they'd bothered to teach target practice so the men could
                        > learn how to use their fancy range finding sites, as the Brits did in
                        > Zulu Dawn, it would have been a different matter. Instead, they
                        > emphasized volume of fire over accuracy, resulting in most rounds
                        > sailing over the enemy's heads or burrowing into the ground. However,
                        > the use of percussion caps over flintlocks was certainly an
                        > improvement in reliability and weather resistance. But the Minie ball
                        > was much slower and harder to ram after a few rounds started clogging
                        > the bore. Certainly, the bullet would travel farther, and arrive with
                        > more force, that a round ball, but that apparently didn't have a
                        > great effect on the casualty rate. Now, when repeaters started to
                        > show up late in the war, that's another matter.
                        >
                        > In WWI, it was machine guns like the Maxim that caused the massacres.
                        > Its inventor thought it would be so horrendous a weapon that it would
                        > actually prevent wars (where have we heard that before?)
                        >
                        >
                        > Visit the RevList Homepage, which includes a list of sutlers, RevList
                        member photos, FAQ, etc., at
                        >
                        > http://www.liming.org/revlist/
                        >
                        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: please send a message to
                        > Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Revlist/
                        >
                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • hm95thfoot
                        ... massacres. ... would ... While deadly, the machine gun was not the major killer in WW1. The big killer in WW1 was artillery fire. In the AWI, however, it
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jan 2, 2004
                          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "John Welsh" <jbwelsh@c...> wrote:
                          > Thanks for illuminating another shattered myth. {snip)

                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "joewhitney1" <JOEWHITNEY@A...>
                          > To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:45 PM
                          > Subject: [Revlist] Re: Weaponry & Tactics
                          >
                          > > In WWI, it was machine guns like the Maxim that caused the
                          massacres.
                          > > Its inventor thought it would be so horrendous a weapon that it
                          would
                          > > actually prevent wars (where have we heard that before?)
                          > >
                          >

                          While deadly, the machine gun was not the major killer in WW1. The
                          big killer in WW1 was artillery fire. In the AWI, however, it was
                          disease.

                          Roger Fuller
                        • wa3ngg@aol.com
                          I admit to genuine ignorance on these matters, and am guilty of having accepted the conventional wisdom concerning smooth bore muskets and rifled muskets. I
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jan 3, 2004
                            I admit to genuine ignorance on these matters, and am guilty of having
                            accepted the "conventional wisdom" concerning smooth bore muskets and rifled
                            muskets. I have a couple of questions. In a message dated 1/2/2004 4:49:08 PM
                            Eastern Standard Time, JOEWHITNEY@... writes:

                            > I'll have to differ on that issue. Professor Paddy Griffith, a senior
                            > lecturer in war studies at the Royal Military Academy, wrote a
                            > fascinating book called "Battle Tactics of the Civil War" where he
                            > analyzed the casualty rates of Napoleonic battles and Civil War
                            > battles. He also looked at the typical distance between firing lines
                            > in earlier wars (like the Revolution; see, there's the tie-in!) and
                            > the Civil War. He discovered that neither the casualties nor
                            > distances were very different. For instance, at Leipzig in 1813,
                            > casualties for the three days of fighting were around 127,000.


                            I'm a bit confused. 127,000 sounds significantly greater than the casualties
                            in AWI battles. What are the comparative rates based on population at risk?

                            >
                            > I wince every time some "historian" announces on the History
                            > Channel, or reenactor tells the public, that the rifled musket
                            > revolutionized weaponry, because now, "A man could hit a target at a
                            > thousands yards!". In reality, CW battle lines were typically 50 to
                            > 100 yards apart, just like earlier wars.

                            I can appreciate the 50 to 100 yards, that makes perfect sense, if only in
                            view of the "close with the enemy by means of fire and maneuver" philosophy.
                            Also, having participated in 1000 yard competition, I certainly agree that it is
                            unlikely that significant numbers of combatants would have been striking man
                            sized targets at 1,000 yards with any kind of useful consistency. But if
                            rifled muskets were more accurate at extreme ranges, would they not also be more
                            accurate at close range?

                            Please don't misunderstand me. This isn't criticism, I'm truly interested in
                            this.
                            Tnx,
                            Bill Deutermann


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • John Welsh
                            There are about 400,000 French soldiers, including 100,000 unknowns, buried at the ossusary at Douaumont from the terrible battles at the Marne in WWI. A
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jan 3, 2004
                              There are about 400,000 French soldiers, including 100,000 unknowns, buried
                              at the ossusary at Douaumont from the terrible battles at the Marne in WWI.
                              A victory! A million French soldiers died during that world conflict. I
                              suppose the majority were felled by the incessant artillery bombardments
                              holding the line. The Germans took it too.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "hm95thfoot" <fullerfamily@...>
                              To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 2:56 PM
                              Subject: [Revlist] Re: Weaponry & Tactics


                              > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "John Welsh" <jbwelsh@c...> wrote:
                              > > Thanks for illuminating another shattered myth. {snip)
                              >
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: "joewhitney1" <JOEWHITNEY@A...>
                              > > To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:45 PM
                              > > Subject: [Revlist] Re: Weaponry & Tactics
                              > >
                              > > > In WWI, it was machine guns like the Maxim that caused the
                              > massacres.
                              > > > Its inventor thought it would be so horrendous a weapon that it
                              > would
                              > > > actually prevent wars (where have we heard that before?)
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > While deadly, the machine gun was not the major killer in WW1. The
                              > big killer in WW1 was artillery fire. In the AWI, however, it was
                              > disease.
                              >
                              > Roger Fuller
                              >
                              >
                              > Visit the RevList Homepage, which includes a list of sutlers, RevList
                              member photos, FAQ, etc., at
                              >
                              > http://www.liming.org/revlist/
                              >
                              > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: please send a message to
                              > Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Revlist/
                              >
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                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Joyce & Mike Barbieri
                              List Folke, Another note dealing with the movie ZULU which has become something of a cult film within the hobby--and Kate says she is somewhat lenient about
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jan 22, 2004
                                List Folke,

                                Another note dealing with the movie "ZULU" which has become something
                                of a cult film within the hobby--and Kate says she is somewhat
                                lenient about discussion of the topic.

                                Today is the 125th anniversary of the actions at Isandhlwana and
                                Rorke's Drift. As I write this, the former action is over and the
                                latter is just about to begin.

                                Mike Barbieri
                                Whitcomb's Corps
                              • Rev. Joel Osborne
                                A tip of the old Biretta to the gallant lads of the 24th. Hip, hip, huzzah! Pax Christi Fr. Guido Fanning aka Rev. Joel Osborne Fanning s RGMT
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jan 22, 2004
                                  A tip of the old Biretta to the gallant lads of the 24th. Hip, hip, huzzah!

                                  Pax Christi
                                  Fr. Guido Fanning
                                  aka Rev. Joel Osborne
                                  Fanning's RGMT

                                  Joyce & Mike Barbieri wrote:

                                  > List Folke,
                                  >
                                  > Another note dealing with the movie "ZULU" which has become something
                                  > of a cult film within the hobby--and Kate says she is somewhat
                                  > lenient about discussion of the topic.
                                  >
                                  > Today is the 125th anniversary of the actions at Isandhlwana and
                                  > Rorke's Drift. As I write this, the former action is over and the
                                  > latter is just about to begin.
                                  >
                                  > Mike Barbieri
                                  > Whitcomb's Corps
                                  >
                                  > Visit the RevList Homepage, which includes a list of sutlers, RevList member photos, FAQ, etc., at
                                  >
                                  > http://www.liming.org/revlist/
                                  >
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                                  > with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.
                                  >
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                                  >
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                                  >
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                                • Joyce & Mike Barbieri
                                  ... hip, huzzah! ... And a tip of the old umQhele to the gallant lads of the impi who, armed with leather shield and iron assegais, in defense of their
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jan 23, 2004
                                    --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Rev. Joel Osborne"
                                    <joel.osborne7@v...> wrote:
                                    > A tip of the old Biretta to the gallant lads of the 24th. Hip,
                                    hip, huzzah!
                                    >
                                    > Pax Christi
                                    > Fr. Guido Fanning
                                    > aka Rev. Joel Osborne
                                    > Fanning's RGMT


                                    And a tip of the old umQhele to the gallant lads of the impi who,
                                    armed with leather shield and iron assegais, in defense of their
                                    homeland against the foreign invader, charged over open ground into
                                    the volley fire and bayonets of British regulars. uSuthu! uSuthu!
                                    uSuthu!

                                    Mike Barbieri
                                    Whitcomb's Corps
                                  • Joseph Ruckman
                                    ... Very true, but perhaps we might be pushing the envelope a bit on that leniency? Now if it were Monty Python, the Patron Saint of Reenactors, that might be
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jan 23, 2004
                                      >and Kate says she is somewhat lenient about discussion of the topic.

                                      Very true, but perhaps we might be pushing the envelope a bit on that
                                      leniency?

                                      Now if it were Monty Python, the Patron Saint of Reenactors, that
                                      might be another matter. My lasting regret is that MP never produced
                                      a Zulu movie. The mind boggles...

                                      ...but I digress. Back to the 18th c...

                                      Joseph Ruckman
                                      Revlist Advisory Board
                                    • Ketcham, Greg
                                      ... Hmmm, Joseph? Don tcha remember the Meaning of Life: Part Three-Fighting with each other ? Specifically, John Cleese blithely strolling through the Zulu
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jan 23, 2004
                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        Hmmm, Joseph? Don'tcha remember "the Meaning of Life: Part
                                        Three-Fighting with each other"? Specifically, John Cleese blithely
                                        strolling through the Zulu attack, calmly shaving as heads are cleaved
                                        from bodies, etc?

                                        So....in their own way, they did :-)

                                        Greg Ketcham

                                        Now if it were Monty Python, the Patron Saint of Reenactors, that
                                        might be another matter. My lasting regret is that MP never produced
                                        a Zulu movie. The mind boggles...
                                      • Dave White
                                        ... topic. ... that ... produced ... Actually, they sorta did.....there is a GREAT scene in The Meaning of Life.... Dave White 4th Regt of Foot
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jan 23, 2004
                                          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Ruckman" <malruck@a...> wrote:
                                          > >and Kate says she is somewhat lenient about discussion of the
                                          topic.
                                          >
                                          > Very true, but perhaps we might be pushing the envelope a bit on
                                          that
                                          > leniency?
                                          >
                                          > Now if it were Monty Python, the Patron Saint of Reenactors, that
                                          > might be another matter. My lasting regret is that MP never
                                          produced
                                          > a Zulu movie. The mind boggles...
                                          >
                                          > ...but I digress. Back to the 18th c...
                                          >
                                          > Joseph Ruckman
                                          > Revlist Advisory Board

                                          Actually, they sorta did.....there is a GREAT scene in The Meaning of
                                          Life....

                                          Dave White
                                          4th Regt of Foot
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