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A couple of questions

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  • umfspock87@cs.com
    Dear Liste, I checked the archives for an answer to my question but didn t find anything so I submit it to the list. I m not trying to be anial or anything,
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 1, 2003
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      Dear Liste,

      I checked the archives for an answer to my question but didn't find anything
      so I submit it to the list. I'm not trying to be anial or anything, just
      curious.

      1. Is there anything out there that discusses calling out the cadence ( like
      "LEFT, RIGHT or ONE, TWO ). I'm sure the music is probably responsible for
      that but often reenactor units find themselves without music. So what I'm
      asking is : Do we know whether they called out a cadence back then and if so,
      what did they say?

      2. When dismissing the troops many reenacting units shout something. I
      believe the British troops shouted "God Save the King" in the F & I period.
      ( This could be a reenactorism though). So I ask, do we have any evidence
      that the men shouted anything when dismissed?

      Regards,

      Mike Cecere 3rd & 7th VA
    • ByTheProlong@aol.com
      In a message dated 1/1/2003 9:42:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... Not shouting. But in being dismissed, BY THE RIGHT ABOUT - FACE. The dismissed place their
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 1, 2003
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        In a message dated 1/1/2003 9:42:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
        umfspock87@... writes:

        > 2. When dismissing the troops many reenacting units shout something. I
        > believe the British troops shouted "God Save the King" in the F &I period.
        >
        > ( This could be a reenactorism though). So I ask, do we have any evidence
        > that the men shouted anything when dismissed?

        Not shouting.
        But in being dismissed, BY THE RIGHT ABOUT - FACE. The 'dismissed' place
        their right hand behind their right hip before turning. So as to keep their
        amo block in place while turning.

        Ed Magiera
        ByTheProlong@...


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Lloyd Moler
        Firstly, I greatly enjoyed the dissertation of Woodmasons thoughts about the Virginians. I never knew the origins of the term Cohee before. Now, just where
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 20, 2006
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          Firstly, I greatly enjoyed the dissertation of Woodmasons' thoughts about the Virginians. I never knew the origins of the term Cohee before.

          Now, just where was the term "Tuckahoe" derived from and what is the true meaning?

          Next, is something a bit more important.
          I just finished making a NCO epaulet for my 6th Maryland uniform (era post 1777) Which shoulder does a Sergeant wear said badge of rank on, and what color should it be? I believe that this was by Continental order rather than by unit or state order.

          Thanks in advance for any response.
          Accept then, SIR, my earnest wishes for Your prosperity, and think of me with the truest esteem,
          Your most obliged,
          and obedient
          humble Servant,
          Lloyd Moler

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David McKissack
          ... true meaning? Hello Lloyd and Liste: I ve always heard Tuckahoe applied to folks who lived in Virginia s lowlands, while Cohee was for frontier folk.
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 20, 2006
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            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Lloyd Moler" <firelock@...> wrote:
            > Now, just where was the term "Tuckahoe" derived from and what is the
            true meaning?

            Hello Lloyd and Liste:

            I've always heard "Tuckahoe" applied to folks who lived in Virginia's
            lowlands, while "Cohee" was for frontier folk. From the dictionary
            definition (below), I'd assume those Virginia lowland folk shared some
            characteristics with an eastern herb.

            "Green arrow arum, tuckahoe.

            Peltandra virginica - perennial herb of the eastern United States
            having arrowhead-shaped leaves and an elongate pointed spathe and
            green berries.

            arrow arum - an aquatic plant of the genus Peltandra; North America."

            Cheers,
            Dave McKissack

            2nd NC -- CL

            "...those dear ragged Continentals, whose patience will be the
            admiration of future ages." Colonel John Laurens, KIA, Tar Bluff, SC,
            27 Aug 1782.
          • Neal Hurst
            Hey Guys Yep Tuckahoes were people truely from the Tidewater....its a type of plant that was eaten by very poor people and natives....John Smith writes about
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 20, 2006
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              Hey Guys

              Yep Tuckahoes were people truely from the Tidewater....its a type of plant that was eaten by very poor people and natives....John Smith writes about it in his letters and journels. There are different varietys of it but it lives in low still ponds...perfect for tidewater virginia...


              Neal


              David McKissack <turf1@...> wrote:
              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Lloyd Moler" <firelock@...> wrote:
              > Now, just where was the term "Tuckahoe" derived from and what is the
              true meaning?

              Hello Lloyd and Liste:

              I've always heard "Tuckahoe" applied to folks who lived in Virginia's
              lowlands, while "Cohee" was for frontier folk. From the dictionary
              definition (below), I'd assume those Virginia lowland folk shared some
              characteristics with an eastern herb.

              "Green arrow arum, tuckahoe.

              Peltandra virginica - perennial herb of the eastern United States
              having arrowhead-shaped leaves and an elongate pointed spathe and
              green berries.

              arrow arum - an aquatic plant of the genus Peltandra; North America."

              Cheers,
              Dave McKissack

              2nd NC -- CL

              "...those dear ragged Continentals, whose patience will be the
              admiration of future ages." Colonel John Laurens, KIA, Tar Bluff, SC,
              27 Aug 1782.






              ---------------------------------
              Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • rgrokelley
              Howdy, ... There are two Continental orders for ranks (actually they are orders in Washington s order book). The first is right after Washington takes over
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 21, 2006
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                Howdy,

                > Next, is something a bit more important.
                > I just finished making a NCO epaulet for my 6th Maryland uniform (era
                >post 1777) Which shoulder does a Sergeant wear said badge of rank on,
                >and what color should it be? I believe that this was by Continental
                >order rather than by unit or state order.

                There are two "Continental" orders for ranks (actually they are
                orders in Washington's order book). The first is right after
                Washington takes over the army in 1775. This order is the one that
                tells of Sergeants and corporals wearing red or green epaulets.
                However most don't think this order ever was wide spread, since you see
                a huge difference amongst the states about how their folks are wearing
                symbols of rank. There are epaulets, hat lace, shoulder ropes and
                special cut clothes. So it varied from state to state.
                The next time there is an order by Washington is not until much,
                much later. I think the year is mid-1781. No matter what the year,
                the unit you are portraying had ceased to exist by the time of that
                order. This is the order where lieutenants wear a silver epaulet on
                one side, while captains where it on the other. NCO wear white
                epaulets. I don't have the wording of that exact order, but I have no
                doubt it will be posted here soon (the beauty of this list).
                So, what color did a 6th Maryland sergeant wear in 1777? He may
                have worn nothing, he may have worn something, but he didn't wear
                any "Continental" order. That gap between 1775 to 1781 is the mystery
                for reenactors. Some folks wear the 1775 orders for Washington's army
                up north, even though their unit was never in Washington's army, nor
                did anyone else seem to adhere to that reg. Some units wear
                Washington's order for 1781, even though their unit ceased to exist by
                1781, or were not in Washington's army at the time.
                Some units don't wear anything, and are hoping for more information
                to come out. So, the question begs, how would you know who is an NCO
                in a unit? I have put this out on the list before... you would know,
                because he is the one ordering you about. You would know because he is
                the one you have known to be your NCO since he was promoted. In the
                modern army today there are several units who wear no symbols of rank.
                How do we know who is in charge? Because it is the guy always in
                charge. Units were not that big, you knew who was who.
                With my unit, the North Carolina Continentals, I can find no
                description of any ranks on NCOs. I can also find no orders for
                anything like an epaulet, or a NCO sash. Actually I only know of one
                NCO sash for the entire Continental army, so it wasn't just rare, it
                was downright non-existent. There are no inventories, or shipping
                manifests, or bills paid to anyone to make NCO ranks.
                So my opinion is that there was no symbol for the rank of an NCO in
                the North Carolina line. However reenactors like to wear all sorts of
                pretty shiny things to show folks they are in charge, and it is up to
                you. When I played NCO I didn't wear anything special. Folks knew I
                was an NCO because I was the guy ordering them about. I would
                inevitably get someone from a smaller unit, who would get attached to
                our larger unit, and then try to impress me with his larger rank,
                telling me that he is a sergeant or some such. OK, I'm the sergeant
                major. How can you tell? Because I just told you and now I'm telling
                you where to go.
                From that point on, the person from the other unit would know I was
                the sergeant major. Its not rocket science, and it doesn't take long
                for folks to figure out who is in charge.

                Patrick O'Kelley
                goober.com@...

                Now a lieutenant. DANG! What does it take to get demoted in this
                army!!!
              • bdodgeweaver
                ... are orders in Washington s order book). The first is right after ... see a huge difference amongst the states about how their folks are wearing symbols of
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 21, 2006
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                  --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "rgrokelley" <goober.com@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Howdy,There are two "Continental" orders for ranks (actually they
                  are orders in Washington's order book). The first is right after
                  > Washington takes over the army in 1775. This order is the one that
                  > tells of Sergeants and corporals wearing red or green epaulets.
                  > However most don't think this order ever was wide spread, since you
                  see a huge difference amongst the states about how their folks are
                  wearing symbols of rank.

                  Dear List: Here's the order Patrick refers to from 1775:

                  Head Quarters, Cambridge, July 23, 1775.
                  Parole Brunswick. Countersign Princeton.
                  As the Continental Army have unfortunately no Uniforms, and
                  consequently many inconveniences must arise, from not being able
                  always to distinguish the Commissioned Officers, from the non
                  Commissioned, and the Non Commissioned from the private; it is
                  desired that some Badges of Distinction may be immediately provided,
                  for Instance, the Field Officers may have red or pink colour'd
                  Cockades in their Hatts: the Captains yellow or buff: and the
                  Subalterns green. They are to furnish themselves accordingly. The
                  Serjeants may be distinguished by an Epaulette, or stripe of red
                  Cloth, sewed upon the right shoulder; the Corporals by one of green.

                  ________
                  The order implementing the colored cockade system described above,
                  was actually adopted, as was a separate order from 1775 for the use
                  of colored sashes to note general officers and certain staff.
                  Washington on more than one occasion reiterated orders that were not
                  complied with the first time. The recommendation (and possible use
                  prior to 1782) of white epaulettes is discussed in Peterson's BOOK OF
                  THE CONTINENTAL SOLDIER, p. 244. As others - including Patrick and
                  Todd - have noted before, it's all about context.

                  Thad Weaver
                  German Rt.
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