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Re: Mrs. Loring

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  • malruck
    ... All I know of her is that she was the wife of Joshua Loring, a refugee from Boston, made commissary of prisoners by General Howe. There was a comment from
    Message 1 of 9 , May 2, 2002
      >Could someone point me in a direction where I can find more about
      >Mrs Loring and not her appearance in Hopkinson's ditty.

      All I know of her is that she was the wife of Joshua Loring, a
      refugee from Boston, made commissary of prisoners by General Howe.
      There was a comment from the period implying that Mrs. Loring's
      favors were given in return for that appointment for her husband,
      something to the effect of Loring "enjoyed the money, whilst the
      General enjoyed madam." Someone may be able to provide the full and
      proper quote.

      Regards,

      Joseph Ruckman
    • J. L. Bell
      Joseph Ruckman wrote: Could someone point me in a direction where I can find more about ... All I know of her is that she was the wife of Joshua Loring, a
      Message 2 of 9 , May 2, 2002
        Joseph Ruckman wrote:
        <<>Could someone point me in a direction where I can find more about
        >Mrs Loring and not her appearance in Hopkinson's ditty.

        All I know of her is that she was the wife of Joshua Loring, a refugee from
        Boston, made commissary of prisoners by General Howe. There was a comment
        from the period implying that Mrs. Loring's favors were given in return for
        that appointment for her husband, something to the effect of Loring
        "enjoyed the money, whilst the General enjoyed madam." Someone may be able
        to provide the full and proper quote.>>

        This would be the wife of Joshua Loring Jr, born in 1744. His father was
        active in the Great Lakes during the French & Indian War, and therefore
        locally referred to as "the Commodore." In 1774 London appointed the elder
        Loring to the new, unelected provincial Council, and on 29 August a large
        crowd gathered outside his house in Roxbury and insisted he resign. "I have
        always eaten the King's bread, and I always intend to," he later reported
        having told them. The men replied they'd give him a day to change his mind
        and conform to his fellow citizens' wishes.

        The next day, Loring left quietly for Boston. His son came out from
        Dorchester to look after the house. When the mob came back, Joshua Jr told
        them his father was gone, and they told him the Commodore should publish
        his resignation in the paper. The next day Joshua Jr, his mother, and his
        family joined the Commodore in London. (The house where this took place,
        now called the Loring-Greenough house, still stands in the Jamaica Plain
        neighborhood. In a 19th-century renovation, workers found some toys under
        the floorboards. That created a local legend that some Loring children left
        them there, expecting to return for them. More likely, folks now think,
        kids of all periods just like to hide toys in secret places.) In Mar 1776,
        father, son, and their families sailed away with the British troops, and
        two years later the state declared that their property could be seized.

        Joshua Jr seems to have been an ambitious but somewhat hapless fellow. In
        1774 he was working as a merchant, but hadn't achieved any distinction. The
        next year he bought the office of sheriff of Suffolk County for L500, which
        could be lucrative and prestigious in peacetime--but in war neither he nor
        the British troops could get to any of the county but Boston, and with the
        courts closed and martial law in effect there was no sheriffing to do. The
        commissary of prisoners post seems also to have been a deal full of hidden
        costs.

        I don't know the name of Joshua Jr's wife, but I guess she'd be about 30 in
        1775. I'd heard the phrase "Mrs. Loring," but hadn't realized it referred
        to a couple with positions (of different sorts) under Gen Howe.

        J. L. Bell JnoLBell@...
      • R. Burke
        ... Elizabeth, IIRC. YHS, RJB _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
        Message 3 of 9 , May 2, 2002
          >I don't know the name of Joshua Jr's wife, but I guess she'd be about >30
          >in 1775. I'd heard the phrase "Mrs. Loring," but hadn't realized it
          > >referred to a couple with positions (of different sorts) under Gen >Howe.
          >
          >J. L. Bell

          Elizabeth, IIRC.

          YHS,

          RJB



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          Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
        • bvogler
          List- Elizabeth Lloyd of Boston married Joshua Loring in 1769 while he was has high sheriff of Mass (Boatner, p. 659). She was reported to have shared her
          Message 4 of 9 , May 3, 2002
            List-
            Elizabeth Lloyd of Boston married Joshua Loring in 1769 while he was has high sheriff of Mass (Boatner, p. 659).
            She was reported to have shared her paramour's (MG Howe) tastes and was proficient at drinking and gambling. She was known as 'the sultana' to British officers, and she accompanied Howe's army through three years of campaigning.( Blumenthal , pp. 34-35). Some accounts refer to her as a blue-eyed 'flashing blonde.' ( Scheer & Rankin, p. 208), and others as a 'brillant and unprincipled woman' (Boatner, p. 659). After New York's capture, MG Howe and she drove about in his carriage, attended the theater, and gambled into the night. ( AP, p 182) .
            I seem to recall that she went to Great Britian with her husband Joshua at some point and fell from the pages of history.

            _Women Camp Followers of the American Revolution_ - Blumenthal
            _Rebels & Redcoats_ - Scheer & Rankin
            _Encyclopedia of the American Revolution_ - Boatner
            _'76_ - Associated Press

            And so it goes,
            Bob V.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • J. L. Bell
            Bob Vogler wrote: Thanks for all
            Message 5 of 9 , May 4, 2002
              Bob Vogler wrote:
              <<Elizabeth Lloyd of Boston married Joshua Loring in 1769 while he was has
              high sheriff of Mass (Boatner, p. 659). . . .>>

              Thanks for all the new quotes. Boatner may be mistaken about Joshua Loring
              Jr's position in 1769 at the time of his marriage. He was only 25 that
              year, and thus would have been young for a high post. According to his
              Loyalist Commission claim, he bought the office of sheriff of Suffolk
              County in 1775, and that might be what Boatner had in mind.

              Question (for me mostly, since I think I know where to look): Was Elizabeth
              Lloyd the daughter of James Lloyd (1728-1810), said to be Boston's leading
              physician before the war and a Loyalist who stayed behind during it?
              According to James Thacher's MEDICAL DICTIONARY (the same Thacher who
              published his journal/memoir of the war), Dr Lloyd met Gen William Howe in
              the 1750s when the latter was stationed at Castle William in Boston harbor.
              In that case, Howe might have been acquainted with the future Mrs Loring
              from her childhood.

              J. L. Bell JnoLBell@...
            • J. L. Bell
              A while back I wrote:
              Message 6 of 9 , May 17, 2002
                A while back I wrote:
                <<Question (for me mostly, since I think I know where to look): Was
                Elizabeth Lloyd the daughter of James Lloyd (1728-1810), said to be
                Boston's leading physician before the war and a Loyalist who stayed behind
                during it? According to James Thacher's MEDICAL DICTIONARY (the same
                Thacher who published his journal/memoir of the war), Dr Lloyd met Gen
                William Howe in the 1750s when the latter was stationed at Castle William
                in Boston harbor. In that case, Howe might have been acquainted with the
                future Mrs Loring from her childhood.>>

                Short answer: No, Elizabeth Lloyd was probably not a daughter of Dr James
                Lloyd. She was more likely a niece or grandniece. But I can't say for sure.

                The long answer is for those who like this sort of genealogical digging,
                and might be able to offer more resources. One big challenge is that
                Boston's vital records for the mid- and late 1700s are very spotty. Add the
                married-name problem that makes investigations of women harder. Stir in Mrs
                Loring's bad reputation and departure for England, so her remaining North
                American relatives had less reason to celebrate her. And top off with the
                fact that there were three Boston women named Elizabeth Lloyd marrying
                three future Loyalists.

                The Elizabeth Lloyd who became the notorious "Mrs. Loring" married Joshua
                Loring Jr (1744-1789) on 19 Oct 1769. The ceremony took place at the
                Dorchester home of Col Nathaniel Hatch (c. 1723-1780 or '84) and his wife,
                who had also been named Elizabeth Lloyd at the time of her marriage. So
                those two women were probably related.

                The third Elizabeth Lloyd (c. 1723-1800) was married to attorney Samuel
                Fitch (1724-1799). According to Jones's Loyalists of Massachusetts, Fitch
                had financial links to Dr Lloyd and was a "near family connection" to his
                brother. So all three Elizabeth Lloyds were probably from the same extended
                family.

                That Lloyd family originally hailed from Oyster Bay, Long Island. At least
                two brothers were living in Boston at the time of the Revolution: Henry
                Lloyd (1709-1795), a merchant, and Dr James Lloyd (1728-1810), the town's
                most fashionable physician. Both brothers had several children, and the
                public records are obscure on all their names.

                Here's a description of that family's close link to Gen William Howe:
                "In the French war, Sir William Howe (then a Colonel) was
                dangerously ill at Boston, and ever after gratefully and publicly
                attributed his recovery to the skill and unceasing attention of Dr. [James]
                Lloyd; and when, in 1775, he came on the hopeless mission of subduing a
                wronged and roused people, he immediately renewed the acquaintance."
                [Sabine's Loyalists, 2:23]

                And for the evidence that ties "Mrs. Loring" to Henry Lloyd: One of her
                children was named Henry Lloyd Loring (d. in Calcutta, 1832). That name
                hints, but doesn't require, that she was a daughter or granddaughter of the
                merchant Henry Lloyd. I found no hint that Elizabeth (Lloyd) Loring was
                more closely connected to the doctor. So while it's possible Gen Howe met
                his medical savior's young niece Elizabeth during his first visit to
                Boston, they probably didn't spend much time together.

                When Gen Howe returned to Boston in the spring of 1775, Elizabeth (Lloyd)
                Loring was in the besieged capital with her husband of five and a half
                years. She may also have been pregnant; one source says Loring gave birth
                to a boy named John Wentworth Loring in 1775, but another says Oct 1773. In
                either event, Dorchester authorities wrote the death of one of her sons in
                Nov 1775 into their vital records. So the siege of Boston was especially
                sad for the Lorings.

                When the British military evacuated the town in Mar 1776, Joshua Loring Jr
                accompanied them to Halifax. According to the official list of households
                leaving, he sailed in a party of one. Where was Mrs. Loring? She may have
                been attached to the Henry Loring household, which numbered 10. Or she may
                have been part of Gen Howe's suite and left off the record entirely.

                In any event, the Lorings spent the rest of the war apart--no surprise
                there. According to Palmer's Loyalists, "Loring's wife and children went to
                England in 1778, and he followed with the permission of Sir Guy Carleton in
                November 1782. He settled at Englefield, near Reading in Berkshire." Sabine
                says he died in 1789. If we want to find Mrs Loring after the war, we
                should probably start at Englefield.

                I earlier wrote that Joshua Loring Jr paid 500 guineas for the office of
                Sheriff of Suffolk County, but then had no way of earning back that money
                during the siege since he couldn't get to most of the county and Boston was
                under martial law. But I see in another source that he kept busy. Here are
                extracts from the diary of John Leach, a teacher of navigation who was
                imprisoned on suspicion of spying after the Battle of Bunker Hill:
                29 June 1775: "One Loring, who is lately made a Sheriff," and Maj
                Cane arrested Leach. "Major Cane demanded the Keys of my Desks [in his
                house], and search'd all my Drawings, Writings, &c., and told me I had a
                great deal to answer for. . . . They then conducted me to the Stone Gaol,
                and after being lodged there 20 minutes, the said Cane and Loring brought
                in Master James Lovell, after searching his Papers, Letters, &c. as they
                had done mine. Cane carried my drawings to show Gen. Gage, next day, and
                returned them."
                15 Sept: "Many goods of the inhabitants have been plundered by the
                provost and sheriff Loring, and brought to the prison-house. They made a
                (mock) vendue of them in the prison-house, Loring vendue-master; the
                provost, his son and Dyer, the bidders-a most curious piece of equity."
                [NEW ENGLAND HISTORICAL & GENEALOGICAL RECORD, 19:256, 261-2]

                Here are the full citations for the biographical dictionaries of Loyalists
                that I consulted--
                Jones, E. Alfred. THE LOYALISTS OF MASSACHUSETTS: THEIR MEMORIALS,
                PETITIONS, AND CLAIMS. London: Saint Catherine Press, 1930.
                Palmer, Gregory. BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCHES OF LOYALISTS OF THE AMERICAN
                REVOLUTION. Westport, Conn.: Meckler, 1984.
                Sabine, Lorenzo. BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCHES OF LOYALISTS OF THE AMERICAN
                REVOLUTION. 2 vols. Boston: Little, Brown, 1864.
                Stark, James H. THE LOYALISTS OF MASSACHUSETTS AND THE OTHER SIDE
                OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION. Boston: W. B. Clarke, 1910.

                J. L. Bell JnoLBell@...
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