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Re: Cannons at Hubbardton

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  • sschuyler59@aol.com
    ... anything ... not there ... I m with Bob. I don t think artillery was there in any form. The complete text of BATTLE OF HUBBARTON by John Williams is online
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 1, 2001
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      --- In Revlist@y..., PZBOB@A... wrote:
      > the troops on both sides were moving too fast for
      anything
      > heavier than 2-3pders to keep up, my opinion would be cannons were
      not there
      > or had any impact in the battle
      >
      > bob
      >

      I'm with Bob. I don't think artillery was there in any form.

      The complete text of BATTLE OF HUBBARTON by John Williams is online
      at:

      http://www.cet.middlebury.edu/mcgill/battle/index.html

      A secondary source for sure but well referenced to primary sources.

      No artillery mentioned.

      The action is the result of a fast retreat from Ticonderoga/Mt.
      Independence and the topology of the Hampshire Grants rules out
      cannons keeping up. Can't believe anybody on either side gave any
      serious thought to dragging 12 pounders over those mountains.

      Kevin Richard-Morrow
      Second Albany County Militia
    • staff@mafseminars.com
      Keith, That s more documentaton than I found. However, I have observed several cannon balls supposidly recovered from the Hubbardton Battlefield. One appears
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 1, 2001
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        Keith,

        That's more documentaton than I found. However, I have observed
        several cannon balls supposidly recovered from the Hubbardton
        Battlefield. One appears to be from a 12 pounder, one from a 1 1/2
        pounder and one from something smaller. There were no other battles
        in this area that would have accounted for the cannon balls. I agree
        that the quick retreat from Fort Ti and Mt. Independence might
        preclude the Americans from moving such cannon but I am not sure. If
        the origin of the canon balls I observed is accurate, someone had
        cannon at Hubbardton.

        Ron Glidden
      • WRH
        ... Are you sure about this? Just because both sides were required to abandon their field pieces prior to the engagement does not neccesarily mean they also
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 2, 2001
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          >If the origin of the canon balls I observed is accurate, someone had
          >cannon at Hubbardton.
          >
          >Ron Glidden

          Are you sure about this? Just because both sides were required to abandon
          their field pieces prior to the engagement does not neccesarily mean they
          also took the time to un-load all the shot for these pieces from any carts
          or wagons loaded with ordinance prior to the battle. With or without
          cannon, the powder and shot would not willingly be abandoned as the canon
          might be.

          The presence of something as large as a twelve pounder firing would not
          likely escape the notice of the chroniclers of the engagement. I think it
          quite possible that the canon balls found at the site were dumped at the
          commencement of the battle rather than shot from canon reputedly left miles
          away.

          On the other hand, the smaller shot may well have been used in the battle
          as some of the "grasshoppers" could have been packed in by horse or mule,
          and not suffered unduly from the rough road conditions. Also, if some of
          these smaller field pieces were present at the battle, they may well have
          been over-looked by chroniclers simply because their use was so
          common-place in such an engagement.

          There may be, or may have once been, clues as to the truth of this matter
          if the position, location, and condition of the projectiles were acurately
          recorded relative to the opposing forces at the time they were removed from
          the battlefield. This of course assumes that they were recovered in a
          systematic manner by archeologists rather than being un-earthed by a farmer
          as he plowed his fields. It also assumes some record has survived of the
          relative positions and movement of the troops involved.

          Bill
          William Hippensteel <hip1@...>
        • Jay Callaham
          ... From: To: Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 10:22 PM Subject: [Revlist] Re: Cannons at Hubbardton ... I
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 3, 2001
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <staff@...>
            To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 10:22 PM
            Subject: [Revlist] Re: Cannons at Hubbardton


            > Keith,
            >
            > That's more documentaton than I found. However, I have observed
            > several cannon balls supposidly recovered from the Hubbardton
            > Battlefield. One appears to be from a 12 pounder, one from a 1 1/2
            > pounder and one from something smaller. There were no other battles
            > in this area that would have accounted for the cannon balls. I agree
            > that the quick retreat from Fort Ti and Mt. Independence might
            > preclude the Americans from moving such cannon but I am not sure. If
            > the origin of the canon balls I observed is accurate, someone had
            > cannon at Hubbardton.
            >
            > Ron Glidden

            I don't know about that. There's a legend in NC about a foundry in the
            Charlotte area that cast cannon balls, 3 pounders, and sent them to the
            rebels at King's Mountain - who, of course, had no use for them. There
            certainly were no cannon there. I've seen some of the "cannon balls" that
            supposedly came from there - - with nothing but oral tradition for
            documentation. My personal opinion was that they were gate weights.

            Jay
            Cm Gds
            4th Coy, Bde of Guards
            4th Coy, Bde of Guards
          • staff@mafseminars.com
            Bill, You could be right about the presence of powder and cannon balls without cannon. I don t know enough about it to know if the British while in pursuit
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 3, 2001
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              Bill,

              You could be right about the presence of powder and cannon balls
              without cannon. I don't know enough about it to know if the British
              while in pursuit would have been hauling cannon balls without
              cannon. However, it was mentioned to me off-list that this area also
              served as a supply road from Crown Point (I believe to Fort #4 but am
              not sure), and was used by both British and Americans. As such, it
              was suggested that the cannon balls could have fallen from a cart or
              been left there during transport, possibly as storage for transprot
              at a later time. The only thing I am not sure about is whether a
              cart tipping over with cannon balls or even a few falling out of a
              cart would have been missed or neglected by those transproting them.
              Seems like a precious commodity that someone would have laoded back
              into the cart. Then again, having been in the military myself, I can
              envision the guy that lost a few thinking that's a few less I have to
              carry<g>. Who knows?

              Ron
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