Re: [Revlist] Cannons at Hubbardton
- the military road to mt independence and fort ti run thru the battle field
area ,and military supply wagons have been known to break down in that area
since the 1760s,the troops on both sides were moving too fast for anything
heavier than 2-3pders to keep up, my opinion would be cannons were not there
or had any impact in the battle
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- --- In Revlist@y..., PZBOB@A... wrote:
> the troops on both sides were moving too fast foranything
> heavier than 2-3pders to keep up, my opinion would be cannons werenot there
> or had any impact in the battleI'm with Bob. I don't think artillery was there in any form.
The complete text of BATTLE OF HUBBARTON by John Williams is online
A secondary source for sure but well referenced to primary sources.
No artillery mentioned.
The action is the result of a fast retreat from Ticonderoga/Mt.
Independence and the topology of the Hampshire Grants rules out
cannons keeping up. Can't believe anybody on either side gave any
serious thought to dragging 12 pounders over those mountains.
Second Albany County Militia
I haven't heavily researched this topic. But, according to author John
Williams in his book "The Battle of Hubbardton", he concludes that there were
no artillery at Hubbardton.
In Appendix H "Rationale for Lack of Artillery at Hubbardton" p64 he wrote
the following. In Lt Hadden's journal, p85 it is mentioned that Gen. Fraser
pursued the Americans " leaving his artillery which the road was not capable
Lord Napier in his journal mentions that Gen. Fraser came upon the americans
"without artillery which with the utmost endeavor it was impossible to get up"
In the Journal of DuRoi the Elder, Lt and Adj. in the service of the Duke of
Brunswick, it is recorded "...although Brig. Frasier had only half of his
vanguard together, and no artillery whatever.....he made an attack"
Williams also writes; There is no reason to believe that the americans were
any more successful. The rapid march would have precluded drawing artillery
over the narrow crude military road at the pace set. "Gen Wilkinson in his
memoirs mentions "Our ordanance was dispatched by the lakes for
Skenesboro......" He also mentions that the firing was confined to small
arms." Hope this helps
25th Cont Rgt
That's more documentaton than I found. However, I have observed
several cannon balls supposidly recovered from the Hubbardton
Battlefield. One appears to be from a 12 pounder, one from a 1 1/2
pounder and one from something smaller. There were no other battles
in this area that would have accounted for the cannon balls. I agree
that the quick retreat from Fort Ti and Mt. Independence might
preclude the Americans from moving such cannon but I am not sure. If
the origin of the canon balls I observed is accurate, someone had
cannon at Hubbardton.
>If the origin of the canon balls I observed is accurate, someone hadAre you sure about this? Just because both sides were required to abandon
>cannon at Hubbardton.
their field pieces prior to the engagement does not neccesarily mean they
also took the time to un-load all the shot for these pieces from any carts
or wagons loaded with ordinance prior to the battle. With or without
cannon, the powder and shot would not willingly be abandoned as the canon
The presence of something as large as a twelve pounder firing would not
likely escape the notice of the chroniclers of the engagement. I think it
quite possible that the canon balls found at the site were dumped at the
commencement of the battle rather than shot from canon reputedly left miles
On the other hand, the smaller shot may well have been used in the battle
as some of the "grasshoppers" could have been packed in by horse or mule,
and not suffered unduly from the rough road conditions. Also, if some of
these smaller field pieces were present at the battle, they may well have
been over-looked by chroniclers simply because their use was so
common-place in such an engagement.
There may be, or may have once been, clues as to the truth of this matter
if the position, location, and condition of the projectiles were acurately
recorded relative to the opposing forces at the time they were removed from
the battlefield. This of course assumes that they were recovered in a
systematic manner by archeologists rather than being un-earthed by a farmer
as he plowed his fields. It also assumes some record has survived of the
relative positions and movement of the troops involved.
William Hippensteel <hip1@...>
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 10:22 PM
Subject: [Revlist] Re: Cannons at Hubbardton
> That's more documentaton than I found. However, I have observed
> several cannon balls supposidly recovered from the Hubbardton
> Battlefield. One appears to be from a 12 pounder, one from a 1 1/2
> pounder and one from something smaller. There were no other battles
> in this area that would have accounted for the cannon balls. I agree
> that the quick retreat from Fort Ti and Mt. Independence might
> preclude the Americans from moving such cannon but I am not sure. If
> the origin of the canon balls I observed is accurate, someone had
> cannon at Hubbardton.
> Ron Glidden
I don't know about that. There's a legend in NC about a foundry in the
Charlotte area that cast cannon balls, 3 pounders, and sent them to the
rebels at King's Mountain - who, of course, had no use for them. There
certainly were no cannon there. I've seen some of the "cannon balls" that
supposedly came from there - - with nothing but oral tradition for
documentation. My personal opinion was that they were gate weights.
4th Coy, Bde of Guards
4th Coy, Bde of Guards
You could be right about the presence of powder and cannon balls
without cannon. I don't know enough about it to know if the British
while in pursuit would have been hauling cannon balls without
cannon. However, it was mentioned to me off-list that this area also
served as a supply road from Crown Point (I believe to Fort #4 but am
not sure), and was used by both British and Americans. As such, it
was suggested that the cannon balls could have fallen from a cart or
been left there during transport, possibly as storage for transprot
at a later time. The only thing I am not sure about is whether a
cart tipping over with cannon balls or even a few falling out of a
cart would have been missed or neglected by those transproting them.
Seems like a precious commodity that someone would have laoded back
into the cart. Then again, having been in the military myself, I can
envision the guy that lost a few thinking that's a few less I have to
carry<g>. Who knows?