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RE: [Revlist] Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly, VERDICT?

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  • Woolsey, David
    So ..., Which pronounciation is VIC-torious? VIC tuals or Vittles? After all, I should like to avoid being nihilarian or inaniloquent, so if we were to
    Message 1 of 26 , Jan 8, 2013
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      So ...,



      Which pronounciation is VIC-torious? VIC tuals or Vittles?



      After all, I should like to avoid being nihilarian or inaniloquent, so
      if we were to provide chitterlings or gnocchi to the men as victuals,
      how should we pronounce the word?



      YOHS



      Dave Woolsey



      -----Original Message-----
      From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Sgt42rhr
      Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:04 AM
      To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Revlist] Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly, please





      Hi David, I'd be really interested to know more about 18th century
      dictionaries that are online.

      Thank you,
      John

      John M. Johnston
      "P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been
      miscarried; therefore I beg you to write and let me know." - Sir Boyle
      Roche, M.P.

      On Jan 8, 2013, at 4:38 AM, The Hairy Loon
      the.hairy.loon@... <mailto:the.hairy.loon%40virginmedia.com>
      > wrote:
      > Checking this out online with many dictionaries, I can only find one
      that
      > drops the c in pronounciation,

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • William
      There are quite a few words that are common in 18th century vocabulary which are pronounced different than they are spelled. Draught is another one, whether
      Message 2 of 26 , Jan 8, 2013
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        There are quite a few words that are common in 18th century vocabulary which are pronounced different than they are spelled. "Draught" is another one, whether applied to horses or beer. It's a draft horse or a draft beer, not a "drawt" or "drowt".

        Along these lines, it seems very common to hear "coup de grah" for "coup de grace." The C is not silent, as in the last T in "coup d'etat."

        ~ William Myers, independent historian.

        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Woolsey, David" wrote:
        >
        > So ...,
        >
        >
        >
        > Which pronounciation is VIC-torious? VIC tuals or Vittles?
        >
        >
        >
        > After all, I should like to avoid being nihilarian or inaniloquent, so
        > if we were to provide chitterlings or gnocchi to the men as victuals,
        > how should we pronounce the word?
        >
        >
        >
        > YOHS
        >
        >
        >
        > Dave Woolsey
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        > Of Sgt42rhr
        > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 9:04 AM
        > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Revlist] Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly, please
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi David, I'd be really interested to know more about 18th century
        > dictionaries that are online.
        >
        > Thank you,
        > John
        >
        > John M. Johnston
        > "P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been
        > miscarried; therefore I beg you to write and let me know." - Sir Boyle
        > Roche, M.P.
        >
        > On Jan 8, 2013, at 4:38 AM, The Hairy Loon
        > the.hairy.loon@...
        > > wrote:
        > > Checking this out online with many dictionaries, I can only find one
        > that
        > > drops the c in pronounciation,
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Folo Watkins
        For any funny book fans out there. I shared Don s rant with friends on Facebook and noted that I was taught the pronunciation in high school. Someone else who
        Message 3 of 26 , Jan 8, 2013
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          For any funny book fans out there. I shared Don's rant with friends on Facebook and noted that I was taught the pronunciation in high school. Someone else who knew the pronunciation observed that victual was probably Superman's father's brother... :)


          Cheers, Folo
          (who gets recommendations for history books and comic collections from Amazon)
        • donhagist
          I have yet to find an on-line dictionary (or any source, for that matter) where the WRITTEN pronunciation guide voices the c and the u in victuals. They all
          Message 4 of 26 , Jan 8, 2013
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            I have yet to find an on-line dictionary (or any source, for that matter) where the WRITTEN pronunciation guide voices the c and the u in "victuals." They all show something like "vit-lz". If someone has found another, voicing the c and/or v, please point me to it.
            It is strange to me that the dictionary linked below gives different pronunciations in the audio clips than it shows in the written guide - the dictionary contradicts itself. It is, of course, difficult to determine the everyday pronunciation of words that are no longer in everyday use, so it is difficult to know whether this particular dictionary has either the audio or the written rendering wrong, or if alternate pronunciations are accepted.
            As for the comparison to "victory", the point is well taken but it is risky to assume that similar spellings equate to similar pronunciations. Just look at all of the "ough" words in our wonderful language.
            I offer this not to be defensive or contradictory, but to further the discussion.
            Don N. Hagist
            http://revolutionaryimprints.com
            http://redcoat76.blogspot.com

            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, The Hairy Loon wrote:
            >
            > Checking this out online with many dictionaries, I can only find one that
            > drops the c in pronounciation, in fact if you go to
            > http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/victuals there is a
            > voice giving English and American pronounciation.
            > It came from the Latin victualia, into French as vitaille, and English as
            > victuals, so you are probably using the offshoot of the French, after all,
            > they are the reason you drive on the wrong side of the road.
            > Also from the Latin comes victory, and the c is pronounced in that,
            > although harsher than in victuals.
            > David.
            > U.K.
            >
            > > On Jan 7, 2013, at 7:45 PM, "donhagist" wrote:
            > >
            > > > The word is spelled "victuals" but is pronounced "vittles."
            > >
          • Robert Aldridge
            Does the AVERAGE American pronounce anything correctly ??? “The more that you read, the more things you will know. The more that you learn, the more places
            Message 5 of 26 , Jan 8, 2013
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              Does the AVERAGE American pronounce anything correctly ???


              “The more that you read, the more things you will know. The more that you learn, the more places you will go."R.C.A.  
              Gulag 41   


              ________________________________
              From: donhagist <dhagist@...>
              To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:50 PM
              Subject: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly, please


               

              I have yet to find an on-line dictionary (or any source, for that matter) where the WRITTEN pronunciation guide voices the c and the u in "victuals." They all show something like "vit-lz". If someone has found another, voicing the c and/or v, please point me to it.
              It is strange to me that the dictionary linked below gives different pronunciations in the audio clips than it shows in the written guide - the dictionary contradicts itself. It is, of course, difficult to determine the everyday pronunciation of words that are no longer in everyday use, so it is difficult to know whether this particular dictionary has either the audio or the written rendering wrong, or if alternate pronunciations are accepted.
              As for the comparison to "victory", the point is well taken but it is risky to assume that similar spellings equate to similar pronunciations. Just look at all of the "ough" words in our wonderful language.
              I offer this not to be defensive or contradictory, but to further the discussion.
              Don N. Hagist
              http://revolutionaryimprints.com
              http://redcoat76.blogspot.com

              --- In mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com, The Hairy Loon wrote:
              >
              > Checking this out online with many dictionaries, I can only find one that
              > drops the c in pronounciation, in fact if you go to
              > http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/victuals there is a
              > voice giving English and American pronounciation.
              > It came from the Latin victualia, into French as vitaille, and English as
              > victuals, so you are probably using the offshoot of the French, after all,
              > they are the reason you drive on the wrong side of the road.
              > Also from the Latin comes victory, and the c is pronounced in that,
              > although harsher than in victuals.
              > David.
              > U.K.
              >
              > > On Jan 7, 2013, at 7:45 PM, "donhagist" wrote:
              > >
              > > > The word is spelled "victuals" but is pronounced "vittles."
              > >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • jackfortune
              Give that man a REE-ward!
              Message 6 of 26 , Jan 9, 2013
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                Give that man a REE-ward!


                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Robert Aldridge wrote:
                >
                > Does the AVERAGE American pronounce anything correctly ???
              • roofushudson
                Per an alternative dictionary, vittles is sustained - no pun - via written, audio, as well as a list of rhyming words. Also, there are 15 site user comments
                Message 7 of 26 , Jan 9, 2013
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                  Per an alternative dictionary, "vittles" is sustained - no pun - via
                  written, audio, as well as a list of rhyming words. Also, there are 15 site user
                  comments regarding victuals, providing source citations biblical, other
                  literary, and even U.S. legal/regulatory -

                  _http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victuals_
                  (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victuals)


                  Cheers,

                  Bob McDonald

                  _www.RevWar75.com_ (http://www.RevWar75.com)








                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • The Hairy Loon
                  I went to that site _http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victuals_not a very good example, as they say that there is no such word as victuals, but when
                  Message 8 of 26 , Jan 10, 2013
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                    I went to that site
                    _http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victuals_not a very good
                    example, as they say that there is no such word as
                    victuals, but when you go to the vittles page, they say that the
                    alternative is victuals, there are many pages out there to support one way
                    or the other.
                    However, in the correct use of the English language, the vowel u is
                    normally soft, as in uniform or universe, this will cause the preceding
                    consonants to become soft, so that vict becomes vich, making the
                    pronouncement as vichuals, which when spoken aloud, sounds very like
                    vittles, as against my previous, joking, example, victory, where the vowel
                    o, normally harsh, leavies the previous two consonants harsh as well, so it
                    becomes vik tory, as against the o in home, or joke, where the o follows
                    one consonant, becoming soft.
                    I would have thought though, that however you pronounced a word depended on
                    whom you were portraying, we have groups that only speak French, German, or
                    even Latin when on site, a bit over the top sometimes.
                    Enough from me, someone who is becoming fed up with the modern lazy misuse
                    of the English language, with words like "prolly" and "diss", whatever that
                    means, creeping into everyday use.
                    David.
                    U.K.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Woolsey, David
                    I checked http://thesaurus.com/ and they have an audio pronounciation option, and victuals is pronounced vittle without the s ; probably should be with
                    Message 9 of 26 , Jan 10, 2013
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                      I checked http://thesaurus.com/ and they have an audio pronounciation
                      option, and "victuals" is pronounced "vittle" without the "s"; probably
                      should be with the "s" though. So "sounds" like evidence, ...and pun
                      intended!



                      YOHS



                      Dave Woolsey



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of The Hairy Loon
                      Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:04 AM
                      To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly,
                      please





                      I went to that site
                      _http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victuals_not a very good
                      example, as they say that there is no such word as
                      victuals, but when you go to the vittles page, they say that the
                      alternative is victuals, there are many pages out there to support one
                      way
                      or the other.
                      However, in the correct use of the English language, the vowel u is
                      normally soft, as in uniform or universe, this will cause the preceding
                      consonants to become soft, so that vict becomes vich, making the
                      pronouncement as vichuals, which when spoken aloud, sounds very like
                      vittles, as against my previous, joking, example, victory, where the
                      vowel
                      o, normally harsh, leavies the previous two consonants harsh as well, so
                      it
                      becomes vik tory, as against the o in home, or joke, where the o follows
                      one consonant, becoming soft.
                      I would have thought though, that however you pronounced a word depended
                      on
                      whom you were portraying, we have groups that only speak French, German,
                      or
                      even Latin when on site, a bit over the top sometimes.
                      Enough from me, someone who is becoming fed up with the modern lazy
                      misuse
                      of the English language, with words like "prolly" and "diss", whatever
                      that
                      means, creeping into everyday use.
                      David.
                      U.K.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • The Hairy Loon
                      Sounded like viDDles to me. Why not do as we do, ring the triangle, shout Grub up, if you re not here in two minutes, your dinner will be in the dog . David
                      Message 10 of 26 , Jan 10, 2013
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                        Sounded like viDDles to me.
                        Why not do as we do, ring the triangle, shout "Grub up, if you're not here
                        in two minutes, your dinner will be in the dog".
                        David

                        On 10 January 2013 15:03, Woolsey, David <
                        David.Woolsey@...> wrote:

                        > I checked http://thesaurus.com/ and they have an audio pronounciation
                        > option, and "victuals" is pronounced "vittle" without the "s"; probably
                        > should be with the "s" though. So "sounds" like evidence, ...and pun
                        > intended!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > YOHS
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Dave Woolsey
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        > Of The Hairy Loon
                        > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:04 AM
                        > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly,
                        > please
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I went to that site
                        > _http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victuals_not a very good
                        > example, as they say that there is no such word as
                        > victuals, but when you go to the vittles page, they say that the
                        > alternative is victuals, there are many pages out there to support one
                        > way
                        > or the other.
                        > However, in the correct use of the English language, the vowel u is
                        > normally soft, as in uniform or universe, this will cause the preceding
                        > consonants to become soft, so that vict becomes vich, making the
                        > pronouncement as vichuals, which when spoken aloud, sounds very like
                        > vittles, as against my previous, joking, example, victory, where the
                        > vowel
                        > o, normally harsh, leavies the previous two consonants harsh as well, so
                        > it
                        > becomes vik tory, as against the o in home, or joke, where the o follows
                        > one consonant, becoming soft.
                        > I would have thought though, that however you pronounced a word depended
                        > on
                        > whom you were portraying, we have groups that only speak French, German,
                        > or
                        > even Latin when on site, a bit over the top sometimes.
                        > Enough from me, someone who is becoming fed up with the modern lazy
                        > misuse
                        > of the English language, with words like "prolly" and "diss", whatever
                        > that
                        > means, creeping into everyday use.
                        > David.
                        > U.K.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > To subscribe to Revlist, please go to the home page at
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Revlist/ and click "Join This Group!"
                        >
                        > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: please send a message to
                        > Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Woolsey, David
                        Nope no S. YOHS Dave Woolsey ... From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of The Hairy Loon Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013
                        Message 11 of 26 , Jan 10, 2013
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                          Nope no S.



                          YOHS



                          Dave Woolsey



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          Of The Hairy Loon
                          Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:13 AM
                          To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly,
                          please





                          Sounded like viDDles to me.
                          Why not do as we do, ring the triangle, shout "Grub up, if you're not
                          here
                          in two minutes, your dinner will be in the dog".
                          David

                          On 10 January 2013 15:03, Woolsey, David <
                          David.Woolsey@...
                          <mailto:David.Woolsey%40montgomerycountymd.gov> > wrote:






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • jbsmith@epix.net
                          Members of the List,    There is another thing that we Americans must remember, we don t  from speak the Queen s English. We speak what is termed Standard
                          Message 12 of 26 , Jan 10, 2013
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                            Members of the List,
                               There is another thing that we Americans must remember, we don't  from speak the Queen's English. We speak what is termed Standard American English.  Standard American English is that language that follows those rules found in grammar and compoition handbooks.  This is different Standard British English as our, American, rules for spelling and some grammar rules are different.  So as a result how the English pronounce victuals and how we pronounce it are going to be different.  If you have never seen the movie "Love Actually"  watch it and especially watch the part where the Brit comes to the American bar in Milwaukee.
                                Jeff Smith
                               24th CMR
                            (Speech Communications Teacher for 25 years)

                            --- On Thu, 1/10/13, Woolsey, David <David.Woolsey@...> wrote:

                            From: Woolsey, David <David.Woolsey@...>
                            Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly, please
                            To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Thursday, January 10, 2013, 10:03 AM
















                             









                            I checked http://thesaurus.com/ and they have an audio pronounciation

                            option, and "victuals" is pronounced "vittle" without the "s"; probably

                            should be with the "s" though. So "sounds" like evidence, ...and pun

                            intended!



                            YOHS



                            Dave Woolsey



                            -----Original Message-----

                            From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

                            Of The Hairy Loon

                            Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:04 AM

                            To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com

                            Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly,

                            please



                            I went to that site

                            _http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victuals_not a very good

                            example, as they say that there is no such word as

                            victuals, but when you go to the vittles page, they say that the

                            alternative is victuals, there are many pages out there to support one

                            way

                            or the other.

                            However, in the correct use of the English language, the vowel u is

                            normally soft, as in uniform or universe, this will cause the preceding

                            consonants to become soft, so that vict becomes vich, making the

                            pronouncement as vichuals, which when spoken aloud, sounds very like

                            vittles, as against my previous, joking, example, victory, where the

                            vowel

                            o, normally harsh, leavies the previous two consonants harsh as well, so

                            it

                            becomes vik tory, as against the o in home, or joke, where the o follows

                            one consonant, becoming soft.

                            I would have thought though, that however you pronounced a word depended

                            on

                            whom you were portraying, we have groups that only speak French, German,

                            or

                            even Latin when on site, a bit over the top sometimes.

                            Enough from me, someone who is becoming fed up with the modern lazy

                            misuse

                            of the English language, with words like "prolly" and "diss", whatever

                            that

                            means, creeping into everyday use.

                            David.

                            U.K.



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • William
                            There ought to be a pronunciation guide for 18th-century speech produced for re-enactors and historical impersonators. One factor would be the mixture of local
                            Message 13 of 26 , Jan 10, 2013
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                              There ought to be a pronunciation guide for 18th-century speech produced for re-enactors and historical impersonators.

                              One factor would be the mixture of local accents and the prevalence of foreign-born people in America at the time. That is certainly not reproduced by re-enactors.

                              Roman scholar W. Sidney Allen produced the Vox Latina, a pronunciation guide derived partially from wax tablets that belonged to students. Phoenetic misspellings were used to determine how the words were likely pronounced in ancient Rome. It is an impressive research project. Just as in modern France or 18th century America, there were certainly regional variations.

                              I did a perfunctory search for "victuals" in poetry but discovedred no passages that indicate its pronunciation, as Don Hagist had used as supporting evidence for the pronuncuation of huzzah.

                              Anecdote: the cat food "Tender Vittles" was originally "Tender Victuals" but its mispronunciation was so common they chande the name to its phoenetic form.

                              William Myers. independant historian.

                              PS: Phoentic spellings in pension applications provide clues: I wondered whether my ancestor Major Daniel Piatt pronounced his name with the traditional French Pee-ott, which happens to be the name of an anti-tank rocket launcher in France, or Pie-ott, or even Pee- at, but pension applications have not entirely settled the question but phoentic spellings suggest the traditional French pronunciation. (The Dutch Vliets, of his mother's side, pronounced the name Fleet.)




                              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "jbsmith@..." wrote:
                              >
                              > Members of the List,
                              >    There is another thing that we Americans must remember, we don't  from speak the Queen's English. We speak what is termed Standard American English.  Standard American English is that language that follows those rules found in grammar and compoition handbooks.  This is different Standard British English as our, American, rules for spelling and some grammar rules are different.  So as a result how the English pronounce victuals and how we pronounce it are going to be different.  If you have never seen the movie "Love Actually"  watch it and especially watch the part where the Brit comes to the American bar in Milwaukee.
                              >     Jeff Smith
                              >    24th CMR
                              > (Speech Communications Teacher for 25 years)
                              >
                              > --- On Thu, 1/10/13, Woolsey, David wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Woolsey, David
                              > Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly, please
                              > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Thursday, January 10, 2013, 10:03 AM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I checked http://thesaurus.com/ and they have an audio pronounciation
                              >
                              > option, and "victuals" is pronounced "vittle" without the "s"; probably
                              >
                              > should be with the "s" though. So "sounds" like evidence, ...and pun
                              >
                              > intended!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > YOHS
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Dave Woolsey
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              >
                              > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              >
                              > Of The Hairy Loon
                              >
                              > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:04 AM
                              >
                              > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              > Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly,
                              >
                              > please
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I went to that site
                              >
                              > _http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victuals_not a very good
                              >
                              > example, as they say that there is no such word as
                              >
                              > victuals, but when you go to the vittles page, they say that the
                              >
                              > alternative is victuals, there are many pages out there to support one
                              >
                              > way
                              >
                              > or the other.
                              >
                              > However, in the correct use of the English language, the vowel u is
                              >
                              > normally soft, as in uniform or universe, this will cause the preceding
                              >
                              > consonants to become soft, so that vict becomes vich, making the
                              >
                              > pronouncement as vichuals, which when spoken aloud, sounds very like
                              >
                              > vittles, as against my previous, joking, example, victory, where the
                              >
                              > vowel
                              >
                              > o, normally harsh, leavies the previous two consonants harsh as well, so
                              >
                              > it
                              >
                              > becomes vik tory, as against the o in home, or joke, where the o follows
                              >
                              > one consonant, becoming soft.
                              >
                              > I would have thought though, that however you pronounced a word depended
                              >
                              > on
                              >
                              > whom you were portraying, we have groups that only speak French, German,
                              >
                              > or
                              >
                              > even Latin when on site, a bit over the top sometimes.
                              >
                              > Enough from me, someone who is becoming fed up with the modern lazy
                              >
                              > misuse
                              >
                              > of the English language, with words like "prolly" and "diss", whatever
                              >
                              > that
                              >
                              > means, creeping into everyday use.
                              >
                              > David.
                              >
                              > U.K.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                              >
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                              >
                              >
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                              >
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                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • ebolton123
                              William, I d rather folks take the time to get their clothing properly fitted and hand sewn, and our camps cleared of all the anacronisms before we worry
                              Message 14 of 26 , Jan 10, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                William,
                                I'd rather folks take the time to get their clothing properly fitted and hand sewn, and our camps cleared of all the anacronisms before we worry about how we say "victuals,vittles, huzza, huzzay". Honestly, I don't care how "PHD" some folks get over the intricacies of 18th century life. If they look like slobs in ill fitting, off the rack garments, and are sitting on a cooler covered with a WWII Army blanket, wearing modern glasses, smoking a cigarette... who cares what they have to say?
                                Cheers,
                                Bob Bolton



                                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                                >
                                > There ought to be a pronunciation guide for 18th-century speech produced for re-enactors and historical impersonators.
                                >
                                > One factor would be the mixture of local accents and the prevalence of foreign-born people in America at the time. That is certainly not reproduced by re-enactors.
                                >
                                > Roman scholar W. Sidney Allen produced the Vox Latina, a pronunciation guide derived partially from wax tablets that belonged to students. Phoenetic misspellings were used to determine how the words were likely pronounced in ancient Rome. It is an impressive research project. Just as in modern France or 18th century America, there were certainly regional variations.
                                >
                                > I did a perfunctory search for "victuals" in poetry but discovedred no passages that indicate its pronunciation, as Don Hagist had used as supporting evidence for the pronuncuation of huzzah.
                                >
                                > Anecdote: the cat food "Tender Vittles" was originally "Tender Victuals" but its mispronunciation was so common they chande the name to its phoenetic form.
                                >
                                > William Myers. independant historian.
                                >
                                > PS: Phoentic spellings in pension applications provide clues: I wondered whether my ancestor Major Daniel Piatt pronounced his name with the traditional French Pee-ott, which happens to be the name of an anti-tank rocket launcher in France, or Pie-ott, or even Pee- at, but pension applications have not entirely settled the question but phoentic spellings suggest the traditional French pronunciation. (The Dutch Vliets, of his mother's side, pronounced the name Fleet.)
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "jbsmith@" wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Members of the List,
                                > >    There is another thing that we Americans must remember, we don't  from speak the Queen's English. We speak what is termed Standard American English.  Standard American English is that language that follows those rules found in grammar and compoition handbooks.  This is different Standard British English as our, American, rules for spelling and some grammar rules are different.  So as a result how the English pronounce victuals and how we pronounce it are going to be different.  If you have never seen the movie "Love Actually"  watch it and especially watch the part where the Brit comes to the American bar in Milwaukee.
                                > >     Jeff Smith
                                > >    24th CMR
                                > > (Speech Communications Teacher for 25 years)
                                > >
                                > > --- On Thu, 1/10/13, Woolsey, David wrote:
                                > >
                                > > From: Woolsey, David
                                > > Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly, please
                                > > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Date: Thursday, January 10, 2013, 10:03 AM
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >  
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > I checked http://thesaurus.com/ and they have an audio pronounciation
                                > >
                                > > option, and "victuals" is pronounced "vittle" without the "s"; probably
                                > >
                                > > should be with the "s" though. So "sounds" like evidence, ...and pun
                                > >
                                > > intended!
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > YOHS
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Dave Woolsey
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > -----Original Message-----
                                > >
                                > > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                > >
                                > > Of The Hairy Loon
                                > >
                                > > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:04 AM
                                > >
                                > > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > >
                                > > Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly,
                                > >
                                > > please
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > I went to that site
                                > >
                                > > _http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victuals_not a very good
                                > >
                                > > example, as they say that there is no such word as
                                > >
                                > > victuals, but when you go to the vittles page, they say that the
                                > >
                                > > alternative is victuals, there are many pages out there to support one
                                > >
                                > > way
                                > >
                                > > or the other.
                                > >
                                > > However, in the correct use of the English language, the vowel u is
                                > >
                                > > normally soft, as in uniform or universe, this will cause the preceding
                                > >
                                > > consonants to become soft, so that vict becomes vich, making the
                                > >
                                > > pronouncement as vichuals, which when spoken aloud, sounds very like
                                > >
                                > > vittles, as against my previous, joking, example, victory, where the
                                > >
                                > > vowel
                                > >
                                > > o, normally harsh, leavies the previous two consonants harsh as well, so
                                > >
                                > > it
                                > >
                                > > becomes vik tory, as against the o in home, or joke, where the o follows
                                > >
                                > > one consonant, becoming soft.
                                > >
                                > > I would have thought though, that however you pronounced a word depended
                                > >
                                > > on
                                > >
                                > > whom you were portraying, we have groups that only speak French, German,
                                > >
                                > > or
                                > >
                                > > even Latin when on site, a bit over the top sometimes.
                                > >
                                > > Enough from me, someone who is becoming fed up with the modern lazy
                                > >
                                > > misuse
                                > >
                                > > of the English language, with words like "prolly" and "diss", whatever
                                > >
                                > > that
                                > >
                                > > means, creeping into everyday use.
                                > >
                                > > David.
                                > >
                                > > U.K.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
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                                > >
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                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
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                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                              • Jack Reimer
                                LIKE.............. Jack Reimer ________________________________ From: ebolton123 To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 10,
                                Message 15 of 26 , Jan 10, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  LIKE..............

                                  Jack Reimer


                                  ________________________________
                                  From: ebolton123 <ebolton123@...>
                                  To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 5:15 PM
                                  Subject: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly, please


                                   
                                  William,
                                  I'd rather folks take the time to get their clothing properly fitted and hand sewn, and our camps cleared of all the anacronisms before we worry about how we say "victuals,vittles, huzza, huzzay". Honestly, I don't care how "PHD" some folks get over the intricacies of 18th century life. If they look like slobs in ill fitting, off the rack garments, and are sitting on a cooler covered with a WWII Army blanket, wearing modern glasses, smoking a cigarette... who cares what they have to say?
                                  Cheers,
                                  Bob Bolton

                                  --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                                  >
                                  > There ought to be a pronunciation guide for 18th-century speech produced for re-enactors and historical impersonators.
                                  >
                                  > One factor would be the mixture of local accents and the prevalence of foreign-born people in America at the time. That is certainly not reproduced by re-enactors.
                                  >
                                  > Roman scholar W. Sidney Allen produced the Vox Latina, a pronunciation guide derived partially from wax tablets that belonged to students. Phoenetic misspellings were used to determine how the words were likely pronounced in ancient Rome. It is an impressive research project. Just as in modern France or 18th century America, there were certainly regional variations.
                                  >
                                  > I did a perfunctory search for "victuals" in poetry but discovedred no passages that indicate its pronunciation, as Don Hagist had used as supporting evidence for the pronuncuation of huzzah.
                                  >
                                  > Anecdote: the cat food "Tender Vittles" was originally "Tender Victuals" but its mispronunciation was so common they chande the name to its phoenetic form.
                                  >
                                  > William Myers. independant historian.
                                  >
                                  > PS: Phoentic spellings in pension applications provide clues: I wondered whether my ancestor Major Daniel Piatt pronounced his name with the traditional French Pee-ott, which happens to be the name of an anti-tank rocket launcher in France, or Pie-ott, or even Pee- at, but pension applications have not entirely settled the question but phoentic spellings suggest the traditional French pronunciation. (The Dutch Vliets, of his mother's side, pronounced the name Fleet.)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "jbsmith@" wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Members of the List,
                                  > >    There is another thing that we Americans must remember, we don't  from speak the Queen's English. We speak what is termed Standard American English.  Standard American English is that language that follows those rules found in grammar and compoition handbooks.  This is different Standard British English as our, American, rules for spelling and some grammar rules are different.  So as a result how the English pronounce victuals and how we pronounce it are going to be different.  If you have never seen the movie "Love Actually"  watch it and especially watch the part where the Brit comes to the American bar in Milwaukee.
                                  > >     Jeff Smith
                                  > >    24th CMR
                                  > > (Speech Communications Teacher for 25 years)
                                  > >
                                  > > --- On Thu, 1/10/13, Woolsey, David wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > From: Woolsey, David
                                  > > Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly, please
                                  > > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Date: Thursday, January 10, 2013, 10:03 AM
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >  
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I checked http://thesaurus.com/ and they have an audio pronounciation
                                  > >
                                  > > option, and "victuals" is pronounced "vittle" without the "s"; probably
                                  > >
                                  > > should be with the "s" though. So "sounds" like evidence, ...and pun
                                  > >
                                  > > intended!
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > YOHS
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Dave Woolsey
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                  > >
                                  > > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                  > >
                                  > > Of The Hairy Loon
                                  > >
                                  > > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 9:04 AM
                                  > >
                                  > > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >
                                  > > Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Pet peeve: Pronounce "victuals" correctly,
                                  > >
                                  > > please
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I went to that site
                                  > >
                                  > > _http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victuals_not a very good
                                  > >
                                  > > example, as they say that there is no such word as
                                  > >
                                  > > victuals, but when you go to the vittles page, they say that the
                                  > >
                                  > > alternative is victuals, there are many pages out there to support one
                                  > >
                                  > > way
                                  > >
                                  > > or the other.
                                  > >
                                  > > However, in the correct use of the English language, the vowel u is
                                  > >
                                  > > normally soft, as in uniform or universe, this will cause the preceding
                                  > >
                                  > > consonants to become soft, so that vict becomes vich, making the
                                  > >
                                  > > pronouncement as vichuals, which when spoken aloud, sounds very like
                                  > >
                                  > > vittles, as against my previous, joking, example, victory, where the
                                  > >
                                  > > vowel
                                  > >
                                  > > o, normally harsh, leavies the previous two consonants harsh as well, so
                                  > >
                                  > > it
                                  > >
                                  > > becomes vik tory, as against the o in home, or joke, where the o follows
                                  > >
                                  > > one consonant, becoming soft.
                                  > >
                                  > > I would have thought though, that however you pronounced a word depended
                                  > >
                                  > > on
                                  > >
                                  > > whom you were portraying, we have groups that only speak French, German,
                                  > >
                                  > > or
                                  > >
                                  > > even Latin when on site, a bit over the top sometimes.
                                  > >
                                  > > Enough from me, someone who is becoming fed up with the modern lazy
                                  > >
                                  > > misuse
                                  > >
                                  > > of the English language, with words like "prolly" and "diss", whatever
                                  > >
                                  > > that
                                  > >
                                  > > means, creeping into everyday use.
                                  > >
                                  > > David.
                                  > >
                                  > > U.K.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • The Hairy Loon
                                  I have carried on in this discussion as I feel that the hobby can get a bit anal, we are now in 2013, if any of you can tell me how a sod buster of German
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Jan 10, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I have carried on in this discussion as I feel that the hobby can get a bit
                                    anal, we are now in 2013, if any of you can tell me how a sod buster of
                                    German descent, in mid Arizona circa 1750 would say any word, then you are
                                    much older than you look.
                                    We have a group over here, The Ermin Street Guard, (Roman Legion about
                                    50AD) that insist on speaking Latin, all orders, all mess drill etc etc.
                                    To hear them marching along the road to the chant of Sinister, Sinister,
                                    Sinister, Dexter Sinister, is a wonder to us all, especially those of us
                                    still doing straw foot, hay foot, in 1812, and being issued with boots,
                                    feet, for the use off.
                                    Mixing periods, we used to have one member in our Tudor group that spoke
                                    perfect Shakespearean English, you could not see the public for dust.
                                    As Bob Bolton says, wear the correct kit, portray the living, fighting and
                                    weaponry, but please do not try to be too pedantic with the speech of the
                                    time.
                                    No more from me on the subject.
                                    David. U.K.
                                    P.S. Hint.
                                    Left, Left, Left, Right Left.
                                    We did keep asking them for the order to break step when they approached a
                                    stone bridge, but we were ignored.
                                    P.P.S.
                                    Still no comment about the wrong side of the road?



                                    On 10 January 2013 22:15, ebolton123 <ebolton123@...> wrote:

                                    > William,
                                    > I'd rather folks take the time to get their clothing properly fitted and
                                    > hand sewn, and our camps cleared of all the anacronisms before we worry
                                    > about how we say "victuals,vittles, huzza, huzzay". Honestly, I don't care
                                    > how "PHD" some folks get over the intricacies of 18th century life. If
                                    > they look like slobs in ill fitting, off the rack garments, and are sitting
                                    > on a cooler covered with a WWII Army blanket, wearing modern glasses,
                                    > smoking a cigarette... who cares what they have to say?
                                    > Cheers,
                                    > Bob Bolton
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • mbkatzhyman
                                    For those who wish to practice their 18th-century English, Cathleene Hellier, an historian with Colonial Williamsburg, wrote Eighteenth-century English as a
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Jan 11, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      For those who wish to practice their 18th-century English, Cathleene Hellier, an historian with Colonial Williamsburg, wrote "Eighteenth-century English as a second language : a workbook and series of instructional CDs", which I believe can be purchased through Colonial Williamsburg.

                                      One of Cathy's specialties is 18th-century language, and this is a project she'd been working on for many years. You might also want to read "The King's English: Eighteenth-Century Language," which was written for teachers and can be found on the CW website, here:
                                      http://www.history.org/history/teaching/enewsletter/june03/english.cfm.

                                      Hope this is useful.

                                      Martha Katz-Hyman
                                    • ebolton123
                                      David, Thanks for the support. Yea, having been involved in the hobby for 30 years in many time periods, I have always found folks trying to talk the talk
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Jan 14, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        David,
                                        Thanks for the support. Yea, having been involved in the hobby for 30 years in many time periods, I have always found folks trying to "talk the talk" more comical than historically educational.
                                        Time periods from say WWII to the present, it's obviously easy to toss in an ocasional period slang word or phrase like,"hey Joe, wattaya know", or "get the skinny on the situation" to give a couple common WWII American phrases. But anything pre-WWI, or before the first recorded voice, it starts to get real tough to really know "how they talked". I personally doubt that the so called "experts" REALLY know, beyond a better than average educated guess(?).
                                        Cheers,
                                        Bob Bolton


                                        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, The Hairy Loon wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I have carried on in this discussion as I feel that the hobby can get a bit
                                        > anal, we are now in 2013, if any of you can tell me how a sod buster of
                                        > German descent, in mid Arizona circa 1750 would say any word, then you are
                                        > much older than you look.
                                        > We have a group over here, The Ermin Street Guard, (Roman Legion about
                                        > 50AD) that insist on speaking Latin, all orders, all mess drill etc etc.
                                        > To hear them marching along the road to the chant of Sinister, Sinister,
                                        > Sinister, Dexter Sinister, is a wonder to us all, especially those of us
                                        > still doing straw foot, hay foot, in 1812, and being issued with boots,
                                        > feet, for the use off.
                                        > Mixing periods, we used to have one member in our Tudor group that spoke
                                        > perfect Shakespearean English, you could not see the public for dust.
                                        > As Bob Bolton says, wear the correct kit, portray the living, fighting and
                                        > weaponry, but please do not try to be too pedantic with the speech of the
                                        > time.
                                        > No more from me on the subject.
                                        > David. U.K.
                                        > P.S. Hint.
                                        > Left, Left, Left, Right Left.
                                        > We did keep asking them for the order to break step when they approached a
                                        > stone bridge, but we were ignored.
                                        > P.P.S.
                                        > Still no comment about the wrong side of the road?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On 10 January 2013 22:15, ebolton123 wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > William,
                                        > > I'd rather folks take the time to get their clothing properly fitted and
                                        > > hand sewn, and our camps cleared of all the anacronisms before we worry
                                        > > about how we say "victuals,vittles, huzza, huzzay". Honestly, I don't care
                                        > > how "PHD" some folks get over the intricacies of 18th century life. If
                                        > > they look like slobs in ill fitting, off the rack garments, and are sitting
                                        > > on a cooler covered with a WWII Army blanket, wearing modern glasses,
                                        > > smoking a cigarette... who cares what they have to say?
                                        > > Cheers,
                                        > > Bob Bolton
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • William
                                        Dear Mr. Bolton et al., Aren t yopu guys really beating a dead horse? Enough already, reenactors don t want to be bothered. Point taken. Enough people have
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Jan 14, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Dear Mr. Bolton et al.,

                                          Aren't yopu guys really beating a dead horse? Enough already, reenactors don't want to be bothered. Point taken.

                                          Enough people have expressed a sufficient interest in the vernacular to produce the aforementioned King's Speech CD, which is what "I" was looking for.

                                          If you don;t like it, ignore it... or as our friend Mr. Martin so eloquently expresses it:

                                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zANvYB93u2g


                                          ~ William Myers, independant historian.


                                          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "ebolton123" wrote:
                                          >
                                          > David,
                                          > Thanks for the support. Yea, having been involved in the hobby for 30 years in many time periods, I have always found folks trying to "talk the talk" more comical than historically educational.
                                          > Time periods from say WWII to the present, it's obviously easy to toss in an ocasional period slang word or phrase like,"hey Joe, wattaya know", or "get the skinny on the situation" to give a couple common WWII American phrases. But anything pre-WWI, or before the first recorded voice, it starts to get real tough to really know "how they talked". I personally doubt that the so called "experts" REALLY know, beyond a better than average educated guess(?).
                                          > Cheers,
                                          > Bob Bolton
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, The Hairy Loon wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > I have carried on in this discussion as I feel that the hobby can get a bit
                                          > > anal, we are now in 2013, if any of you can tell me how a sod buster of
                                          > > German descent, in mid Arizona circa 1750 would say any word, then you are
                                          > > much older than you look.
                                          > > We have a group over here, The Ermin Street Guard, (Roman Legion about
                                          > > 50AD) that insist on speaking Latin, all orders, all mess drill etc etc.
                                          > > To hear them marching along the road to the chant of Sinister, Sinister,
                                          > > Sinister, Dexter Sinister, is a wonder to us all, especially those of us
                                          > > still doing straw foot, hay foot, in 1812, and being issued with boots,
                                          > > feet, for the use off.
                                          > > Mixing periods, we used to have one member in our Tudor group that spoke
                                          > > perfect Shakespearean English, you could not see the public for dust.
                                          > > As Bob Bolton says, wear the correct kit, portray the living, fighting and
                                          > > weaponry, but please do not try to be too pedantic with the speech of the
                                          > > time.
                                          > > No more from me on the subject.
                                          > > David. U.K.
                                          > > P.S. Hint.
                                          > > Left, Left, Left, Right Left.
                                          > > We did keep asking them for the order to break step when they approached a
                                          > > stone bridge, but we were ignored.
                                          > > P.P.S.
                                          > > Still no comment about the wrong side of the road?
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > On 10 January 2013 22:15, ebolton123 wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > > William,
                                          > > > I'd rather folks take the time to get their clothing properly fitted and
                                          > > > hand sewn, and our camps cleared of all the anacronisms before we worry
                                          > > > about how we say "victuals,vittles, huzza, huzzay". Honestly, I don't care
                                          > > > how "PHD" some folks get over the intricacies of 18th century life. If
                                          > > > they look like slobs in ill fitting, off the rack garments, and are sitting
                                          > > > on a cooler covered with a WWII Army blanket, wearing modern glasses,
                                          > > > smoking a cigarette... who cares what they have to say?
                                          > > > Cheers,
                                          > > > Bob Bolton
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • ebolton123
                                          William, So sorry...just having a conversation here. Thought that was what the list was for. If your bothered by the length of a given conversation...ignore
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Jan 15, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            William,
                                            So sorry...just having a conversation here. Thought that was what the list was for. If your bothered by the length of a given conversation...ignore it? Hmmm...where did I just hear that? ;)
                                            Cheers,
                                            Bob Bolton





                                            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Dear Mr. Bolton et al.,
                                            >
                                            > Aren't yopu guys really beating a dead horse? Enough already, reenactors don't want to be bothered. Point taken.
                                            >
                                            > Enough people have expressed a sufficient interest in the vernacular to produce the aforementioned King's Speech CD, which is what "I" was looking for.
                                            >
                                            > If you don;t like it, ignore it... or as our friend Mr. Martin so eloquently expresses it:
                                            >
                                            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zANvYB93u2g
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ~ William Myers, independant historian.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "ebolton123" wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > David,
                                            > > Thanks for the support. Yea, having been involved in the hobby for 30 years in many time periods, I have always found folks trying to "talk the talk" more comical than historically educational.
                                            > > Time periods from say WWII to the present, it's obviously easy to toss in an ocasional period slang word or phrase like,"hey Joe, wattaya know", or "get the skinny on the situation" to give a couple common WWII American phrases. But anything pre-WWI, or before the first recorded voice, it starts to get real tough to really know "how they talked". I personally doubt that the so called "experts" REALLY know, beyond a better than average educated guess(?).
                                            > > Cheers,
                                            > > Bob Bolton
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, The Hairy Loon wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I have carried on in this discussion as I feel that the hobby can get a bit
                                            > > > anal, we are now in 2013, if any of you can tell me how a sod buster of
                                            > > > German descent, in mid Arizona circa 1750 would say any word, then you are
                                            > > > much older than you look.
                                            > > > We have a group over here, The Ermin Street Guard, (Roman Legion about
                                            > > > 50AD) that insist on speaking Latin, all orders, all mess drill etc etc.
                                            > > > To hear them marching along the road to the chant of Sinister, Sinister,
                                            > > > Sinister, Dexter Sinister, is a wonder to us all, especially those of us
                                            > > > still doing straw foot, hay foot, in 1812, and being issued with boots,
                                            > > > feet, for the use off.
                                            > > > Mixing periods, we used to have one member in our Tudor group that spoke
                                            > > > perfect Shakespearean English, you could not see the public for dust.
                                            > > > As Bob Bolton says, wear the correct kit, portray the living, fighting and
                                            > > > weaponry, but please do not try to be too pedantic with the speech of the
                                            > > > time.
                                            > > > No more from me on the subject.
                                            > > > David. U.K.
                                            > > > P.S. Hint.
                                            > > > Left, Left, Left, Right Left.
                                            > > > We did keep asking them for the order to break step when they approached a
                                            > > > stone bridge, but we were ignored.
                                            > > > P.P.S.
                                            > > > Still no comment about the wrong side of the road?
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > On 10 January 2013 22:15, ebolton123 wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > > William,
                                            > > > > I'd rather folks take the time to get their clothing properly fitted and
                                            > > > > hand sewn, and our camps cleared of all the anacronisms before we worry
                                            > > > > about how we say "victuals,vittles, huzza, huzzay". Honestly, I don't care
                                            > > > > how "PHD" some folks get over the intricacies of 18th century life. If
                                            > > > > they look like slobs in ill fitting, off the rack garments, and are sitting
                                            > > > > on a cooler covered with a WWII Army blanket, wearing modern glasses,
                                            > > > > smoking a cigarette... who cares what they have to say?
                                            > > > > Cheers,
                                            > > > > Bob Bolton
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
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