Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Maryland State Marines - anyone know anything

Expand Messages
  • britmarinecapt
    The fact that Maryland had marines is fairly well known. It is also well known that part of their issue included a blue frock, but they were also issued with
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 5, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      The fact that Maryland had marines is fairly well known. It is also well known that part of their issue included a blue frock, but they were also issued with a "short coat." Does anyone here have documentation on what color the coats were?

      Jim McGaughey
    • Woolsey, David
      Captain, Here is all that I have been able to find in the Maryland archives... That one month s pay be advanced to each person who shall be so enlisted or
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 6, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Captain,



        Here is all that I have been able to find in the Maryland archives...



        "That one month's pay be advanced to each person who shall be
        so enlisted or entered as aforesaid, and that over and above the pay
        of the non-commissioned officers and privates of the battalion, in-
        dependent companies, and companies of artillery and marines,
        each of them be yearly found and allowed, at the expense of this

        province, a new hat, short coat, waistcoat, pair of breeches, and
        hunting shirt; out of their pay there may be reasonable stoppages
        for necessary shirts, shoes and stockings.

        That the uniform of the land forces and marines be hunting-
        shirts; the hunting shirts of the marines to be blue, and those of
        the land forces to be other colors. "



        There is no mention of "frock". I don't know if a "short coat" is a
        regimental uniform coat with shorter "tails" or if it's some sort of
        sleeved waistcoat. The problem I think one has is determining if the
        hunting-shirts were the external uniform, and the "short coat" was worn
        underneath in colder weather, or if the "short coat" was worn in lieu of
        the hunting-shirt, under certain circumstances.



        YOHS



        Dave Woolsey





        -----Original Message-----
        From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of britmarinecapt
        Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 11:01 PM
        To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Revlist] Maryland State Marines - anyone know anything





        The fact that Maryland had marines is fairly well known. It is also well
        known that part of their issue included a blue frock, but they were also
        issued with a "short coat." Does anyone here have documentation on what
        color the coats were?

        Jim McGaughey





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • britmarinecapt
        Yep, my questions one and all. As you know, the blue rifle frock, or hunting shirt, was issued to distinguish the marines from the other MD land forces. The
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 6, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Yep, my questions one and all. As you know, the blue rifle frock, or hunting shirt, was issued to distinguish the marines from the other MD land forces. The issues says they got a short coat, so I am assuming that is a bob-tailed coat. But when they wore one over the other, I have no idea either. Of course, whether any of this stuff was ever issued, or in the appropriate colors, is another matter. Thus why I asked. :-)

          I do know the MD navy languished for lack of... everything pretty much, including recruits.

          Jim McG

          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Woolsey, David" <David.Woolsey@...> wrote:
          >
          > Captain,
          >
          >
          >
          > Here is all that I have been able to find in the Maryland archives...
          >
          >
          >
          > "That one month's pay be advanced to each person who shall be
          > so enlisted or entered as aforesaid, and that over and above the pay
          > of the non-commissioned officers and privates of the battalion, in-
          > dependent companies, and companies of artillery and marines,
          > each of them be yearly found and allowed, at the expense of this
          >
          > province, a new hat, short coat, waistcoat, pair of breeches, and
          > hunting shirt; out of their pay there may be reasonable stoppages
          > for necessary shirts, shoes and stockings.
          >
          > That the uniform of the land forces and marines be hunting-
          > shirts; the hunting shirts of the marines to be blue, and those of
          > the land forces to be other colors. "
          >
          >
          >
          > There is no mention of "frock". I don't know if a "short coat" is a
          > regimental uniform coat with shorter "tails" or if it's some sort of
          > sleeved waistcoat. The problem I think one has is determining if the
          > hunting-shirts were the external uniform, and the "short coat" was worn
          > underneath in colder weather, or if the "short coat" was worn in lieu of
          > the hunting-shirt, under certain circumstances.
          >
          >
          >
          > YOHS
          >
          >
          >
          > Dave Woolsey
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          > Of britmarinecapt
          > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 11:01 PM
          > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Revlist] Maryland State Marines - anyone know anything
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > The fact that Maryland had marines is fairly well known. It is also well
          > known that part of their issue included a blue frock, but they were also
          > issued with a "short coat." Does anyone here have documentation on what
          > color the coats were?
          >
          > Jim McGaughey
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • BDodgeWeaver@AOL.com
          ... Dear Jim: The following citation is from Browne s Archives of Maryland, Vol. XVI, p. 288 - C. B. Friday 13th June 1777. Present as on yesterday . . .
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 6, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "britmarinecapt" <britmarinecapt@...> wrote:
            >
            > . . . As you know, the blue rifle frock, or hunting shirt, was issued to distinguish the marines from the other MD land forces . . . whether any of this stuff was ever issued, or in the appropriate colors, is another matter . . . Jim McG
            >

            Dear Jim: The following citation is from Browne's Archives of Maryland, Vol. XVI, p. 288 -

            "C. B.
            Friday 13th June 1777.
            Present as on yesterday . . . Ordered That the Western Shore Treasurer pay to Colonel Thomas Price one hundred and fourteen Pounds, ten shillings for Amt of Acct That the Commissary of Stores deliver to Captn Matthews ten Blankets, fifteen shirts, twelve pr of shoes, four Jackets, thirty three yards of Oznr for the Marines on Board the Galley Independence, also six shirts, three pr shoes, three
            Jackets, & fifteen yards of Oznabgs for the Seamen on Board
            of ditto[.]"

            It sounds liek Captain Matthews is a Naval Captain - not a Marine Captain - as he is also providing for sailors on his vessel. However, I think there is a Captain Matthews that may be from Virginia at this time, and I do not know if this is an instance of interstate cooperation.

            I found this item through a footnote in Katcher's UNIFORMS OF THE CONTINENTAL ARMY. Therefore, at least in one instance Marines on actual service are seemingly getting what sailors are getting. Katcher has a few paragraphs about Maryland Navy clothing, and there are some references to red jackets. You may be able to find more by tracking such items using the name of the Marine officer, or the types of clothing held by the "Commissary of Stores" - I have had some luck tracking information with the German Rt. by the officer's name, and the Maryland Archives seem to have a great deal of "receipt" type paperwork.

            As you note, just because the Council of Safety declared an appropriate uniform does not mean it actually got issued.

            Hope this helps - Regards - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
          • Woolsey, David
            Well Captain, there are several muster lists of men who served as Maryland Marines..., but don t know how many were needed, vs. how many they actually had.
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 7, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Well Captain, there are several muster lists of men who served as
              Maryland Marines..., but don't know how many were needed, vs. how many
              they actually had.



              YOHS



              Dave Woolsey



              -----Original Message-----
              From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of britmarinecapt
              Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 1:38 PM
              To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Revlist] Re: Maryland State Marines - anyone know anything



              I do know the MD navy languished for lack of... everything pretty much,
              including recruits.

              Jim McG






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • britmarinecapt
              Based on the availability of the MD state navy, I suspect they spent a lot of time on shore. Jim McG
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 7, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Based on the availability of the MD state navy, I suspect they spent a lot of time on shore.

                Jim McG

                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Woolsey, David" <David.Woolsey@...> wrote:
                >
                > Well Captain, there are several muster lists of men who served as
                > Maryland Marines..., but don't know how many were needed, vs. how many
                > they actually had.
                >
                >
                >
                > YOHS
                >
                >
                >
                > Dave Woolsey
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                > Of britmarinecapt
                > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2012 1:38 PM
                > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [Revlist] Re: Maryland State Marines - anyone know anything
                >
                >
                >
                > I do know the MD navy languished for lack of... everything pretty much,
                > including recruits.
                >
                > Jim McG
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • gregsandor
                http://www.awiatsea.com/sn/MD/Baltimore%20Maryland%20Navy%20Galley%20%5bWalker%5d.html Marines mentioned here.
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 8, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  http://www.awiatsea.com/sn/MD/Baltimore%20Maryland%20Navy%20Galley%20%5bWalker%5d.html

                  Marines mentioned here.



                  --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "britmarinecapt" <britmarinecapt@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The fact that Maryland had marines is fairly well known. It is also well known that part of their issue included a blue frock, but they were also issued with a "short coat." Does anyone here have documentation on what color the coats were?
                  >
                  > Jim McGaughey
                  >
                • Damian Siekonic
                  Jim, Do you have the book Marines in the Revolution by Charles Smith? There s a section on the state marines, including Maryland. Best, Damian Siekonic
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Jim,

                    Do you have the book "Marines in the Revolution" by Charles Smith? There's a section on the state marines, including Maryland.

                    Best,
                    Damian Siekonic



                    --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "gregsandor" <gregsandor@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > http://www.awiatsea.com/sn/MD/Baltimore%20Maryland%20Navy%20Galley%20%5bWalker%5d.html
                    >
                    > Marines mentioned here.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "britmarinecapt" <britmarinecapt@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > The fact that Maryland had marines is fairly well known. It is also well known that part of their issue included a blue frock, but they were also issued with a "short coat." Does anyone here have documentation on what color the coats were?
                    > >
                    > > Jim McGaughey
                    > >
                    >
                  • britmarinecapt
                    No I don t. Never heard of it. I ll look it up, thanks for the tip. Jim McG
                    Message 9 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      No I don't. Never heard of it. I'll look it up, thanks for the tip.

                      Jim McG

                      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Damian Siekonic" <damian@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Jim,
                      >
                      > Do you have the book "Marines in the Revolution" by Charles Smith? There's a section on the state marines, including Maryland.
                      >
                      > Best,
                      > Damian Siekonic
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "gregsandor" <gregsandor@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > http://www.awiatsea.com/sn/MD/Baltimore%20Maryland%20Navy%20Galley%20%5bWalker%5d.html
                      > >
                      > > Marines mentioned here.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "britmarinecapt" <britmarinecapt@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > The fact that Maryland had marines is fairly well known. It is also well known that part of their issue included a blue frock, but they were also issued with a "short coat." Does anyone here have documentation on what color the coats were?
                      > > >
                      > > > Jim McGaughey
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • johnjogden@gmail.com
                      Jim- If you can t readily find a copy @ your library I can loan you mine (it s not prohibitively expensive, but not exactly cheap, either). -- Sent from my
                      Message 10 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Jim-
                        If you can't readily find a copy @ your library I can loan you mine (it's not prohibitively expensive, but not exactly cheap, either).



                        -- Sent from my Palm Pre
                        On Dec 10, 2012 3:49 PM, britmarinecapt <britmarinecapt@...> wrote:


                         










                        No I don't. Never heard of it. I'll look it up, thanks for the tip.



                        Jim McG



                        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Damian Siekonic" <damian@...> wrote:

                        >

                        > Jim,

                        >

                        > Do you have the book "Marines in the Revolution" by Charles Smith? There's a section on the state marines, including Maryland.

                        >

                        > Best,

                        > Damian Siekonic

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "gregsandor" <gregsandor@> wrote:

                        > >

                        > >

                        > > http://www.awiatsea.com/sn/MD/Baltimore%20Maryland%20Navy%20Galley%20%5bWalker%5d.html

                        > >

                        > > Marines mentioned here.

                        > >

                        > >

                        > >

                        > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "britmarinecapt" <britmarinecapt@> wrote:

                        > > >

                        > > > The fact that Maryland had marines is fairly well known. It is also well known that part of their issue included a blue frock, but they were also issued with a "short coat." Does anyone here have documentation on what color the coats were?

                        > > >

                        > > > Jim McGaughey

                        > > >

                        > >

                        >




























                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Damian Siekonic
                        Jim, There are a number of used copies on www.abebooks.com starting around $10. Best, Damian
                        Message 11 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Jim,

                          There are a number of used copies on www.abebooks.com starting around $10.

                          Best,
                          Damian


                          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "johnjogden@..." <johnjogden@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Jim-
                          > If you can't readily find a copy @ your library I can loan you mine (it's not prohibitively expensive, but not exactly cheap, either).
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -- Sent from my Palm Pre
                          > On Dec 10, 2012 3:49 PM, britmarinecapt britmarinecapt@... wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > No I don't. Never heard of it. I'll look it up, thanks for the tip.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Jim McG
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Damian Siekonic" damian@ wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > Jim,
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > Do you have the book "Marines in the Revolution" by Charles Smith? There's a section on the state marines, including Maryland.
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > Best,
                          >
                          > > Damian Siekonic
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "gregsandor" <gregsandor@> wrote:
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > http://www.awiatsea.com/sn/MD/Baltimore%20Maryland%20Navy%20Galley%20%5bWalker%5d.html
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > Marines mentioned here.
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "britmarinecapt" <britmarinecapt@> wrote:
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > The fact that Maryland had marines is fairly well known. It is also well known that part of their issue included a blue frock, but they were also issued with a "short coat." Does anyone here have documentation on what color the coats were?
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > > > Jim McGaughey
                          >
                          > > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.