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Re: [Revlist] Unusual Ethnic Groups of the Revolution.

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  • swzypher@aol.com
    Obama claims there were Muslim participants. So far I have not heard of any being identified. Any word there??? In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:59:56 P.M.
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 19, 2012
      Obama claims there were Muslim participants. So far I have not heard of
      any being identified. Any word there???


      In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:59:56 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
      hgreenland1666@... writes:

      " . . .There are suggestions that French troops in India displayed an
      American along with the French flag during the latter part of the Second Mysore
      War.

      The Jewish role in the American Revolution is another often overlooked
      topic, Haim Solomon for one. . . . "

      This may be a productive topic to explore.

      ~ William Myers, independant historian.




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • jaffray2000
      I can only speak per anecdote, but my father grew up in Virginia next door to some Taliaferros (they pronounced it Toliver ). They claimed to be of Norman
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
        I can only speak per anecdote, but my father grew up in Virginia next door to some Taliaferros (they pronounced it "Toliver"). They claimed to be of Norman French extraction, although I have never tracked it down to be sure.

        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <hgreenland1666@...> wrote:
        >
        >>
        > Does anyone know of people of nationalities involved in the American Revolution that might be surprising? For instance: Italians like to claim William Paca, but genealogists have rejected attributing Italian to his background; but Taliaferro is a genuine Revolutionary War hero of apparently Italian extraction- northern Italy and Venice though some say French.
        >
        > ~ William Myers, independant historian.
        >
      • Michael Grillo
        The only information I ve of Italians fighting were in 2 French Regiments. I ve found none in the Continental army. ________________________________ From:
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
          The only information I've of Italians fighting were in 2 French Regiments. I've found none in the Continental army.



          ________________________________
          From: jaffray2000 <andrewcbatten@...>
          To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:33 AM
          Subject: [Revlist] Re: Unusual Ethnic Groups of the Revolution.


           

          I can only speak per anecdote, but my father grew up in Virginia next door to some Taliaferros (they pronounced it "Toliver"). They claimed to be of Norman French extraction, although I have never tracked it down to be sure.

          --- In mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com, "William" <hgreenland1666@...> wrote:
          >
          >>
          > Does anyone know of people of nationalities involved in the American Revolution that might be surprising? For instance: Italians like to claim William Paca, but genealogists have rejected attributing Italian to his background; but Taliaferro is a genuine Revolutionary War hero of apparently Italian extraction- northern Italy and Venice though some say French.
          >
          > ~ William Myers, independant historian.
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Robert Ducote
          Cajuns served in militia units in the Spanish Army of Louisiana under Governor-General Galvez. I have SAR membership from direct lineage to Corporal Pierre
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
            Cajuns served in militia units in the Spanish Army of Louisiana under Governor-General Galvez. I have SAR membership from direct lineage to Corporal Pierre Ducote of the Pointe Coupee Militia.

            Sent from my iPad

            On Nov 20, 2012, at 8:45, Michael Grillo <michaeljtgrillo@...> wrote:

            > The only information I've of Italians fighting were in 2 French Regiments. I've found none in the Continental army.
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: jaffray2000 <andrewcbatten@...>
            > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:33 AM
            > Subject: [Revlist] Re: Unusual Ethnic Groups of the Revolution.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I can only speak per anecdote, but my father grew up in Virginia next door to some Taliaferros (they pronounced it "Toliver"). They claimed to be of Norman French extraction, although I have never tracked it down to be sure.
            >
            > --- In mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com, "William" <hgreenland1666@...> wrote:
            > >
            > >>
            > > Does anyone know of people of nationalities involved in the American Revolution that might be surprising? For instance: Italians like to claim William Paca, but genealogists have rejected attributing Italian to his background; but Taliaferro is a genuine Revolutionary War hero of apparently Italian extraction- northern Italy and Venice though some say French.
            > >
            > > ~ William Myers, independant historian.
            > >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • furious_t
            It s important to remember that the 18th century was a global age. People, goods, and ideas moved just as far around the world as they do today, if not as fast
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
              It's important to remember that the 18th century was a global age.
              People, goods, and ideas moved just as far around the world as they do
              today, if not as fast or in as great numbers. While I cannot speak to
              the direct military participation of various ethnic or religious groups
              in the Revolution there were certainly individuals living in or visiting
              the colonies from all over the world.
              East Indians were employed heavily as sailors by the East India Company
              throughout the 17th and 18th century. So many "Lascars" served aboard
              company vessels that it is partially responsible for the 1660 Navigation
              Act requirement that 3/4ths of any ships crew coming from Asia, Africa,
              or the Americas had to be English. Thousands visited England and the
              rest of the empire, and by the end of the 18th century some 10,000 had
              settled in Britain. The book Counterflows to Colonialism: Indian
              Travellers and Settlers in Britain, 1600–1857by Michael Fisher deals
              with this in detail. It's not that much of a stretch to think that at
              least some of the sailors travelling through colonial America's busy
              ports were of East Indian extraction.
              A cursory search of the Virginia Gazette runaway ads also features a few
              mentions of East Indian slave/servants:
              Virginia Gazette(Parks), Williamsburg , From April 15 to April 27, 1737.
              RAN away from Col. John Lewis's, in Gloucester County, on the 17th
              Inst. a square, strong made, [illeg.] jaw'd Mulatto Fellow, named
              George. He had on a brown Cotton jacket, and went away on a light Bay
              Horse, belonging to his Master, branded with a Heart. The Horse has a
              Black Mane and Tail. RAN away in Company with the above-mentioned, an
              East-Indian, belonging to Mr. Heylin, Merchant, in Gloucester : He is a
              well-made, small young Fellow, wore his own Hair (which he may have cut
              off in order to disguise himself:) He is supposed to have on an
              Olive-colour'd German Serge Coat, with Brass Buttons. He went away on a
              strong well-made Grey Stallion, branded with a Dott, belonging to his
              Master. They went from Col. Lewis's to Gloucester Town, where they
              robb'd a House, and took a Pair of Pistols, a Horse Whip, and 'tis
              supposed some other Things. They were seen on Monday going up King and
              Queen County. Whoever secures either of the fore-mentioned Servants,
              shall receive as a Reward, Two Pistoles ; for both of them, Four
              Pistoles, and for the Grey Stallion Two Pistoles; to be paid by John
              Lewis, and John Heylyn.

              Virginia Gazette(Rind), Williamsburg , August 4, 1768.
              Richmond county, July 14. RUN away about the 20th of May last, an
              East-India Indian, named Thomas Greenwich; he is a well made fellow,
              about 5 feet 4 inches high, wears his own hair, which is long and black,
              has a thin visage, a very sly look, and a remarkable set of fine white
              teeth. A reward of 40s. will be paid the person who delivers him to the
              subscriber, besides what the law allows. WILLIAM COLSTON.
              Virginia Gazette(Rind), Williamsburg , March 7, 1771.
              FEBRUARY 23, 1771. RUN away from the sloop Betsy, Edward Massey,
              commander, belonging to Mr. Thomas Hodge, out of Corotoman river, in
              Lancaster county, three servant man, viz, One named Samuel Tailer, an
              Englishman, about 5 feet and an half high, and about 19 years old; had,
              when he went away, two cloth coats, one of blue, the other of a claret
              colour, a claret coloured cloth jacket, check and white shirts. One
              Virginia born Negro, named Alexander Richardson, about 5 feet 10 inches
              high, about 21 years old, and much pock pitted; had on a light coloured
              fearnought lapelled jacket and breeches, and old oznabrig shirt, and one
              check ditto. The other an East Indian, upwards of 5 feet and a half
              high, about 22 years old, of a very dark complexion, and has long black
              hair; he had on an old blue jacket, a Negro cotton ditto, cotton
              breeches, and a check shirt, They are all three convicts, belonging to
              the said Thomas Hodge. They stole from the said sloop, a new broad cloth
              coat, made of superfine cloth, a striped silk jacket, and a pair of
              nankeen breeches, with a parcel of shirts and stockings; Also a nice
              foot boat, belonging to Mr. William Chilton. It is thought they will
              endeavour to get on board some vessel in order to get out of the
              country. All masters of vessels are desired to take notice of this
              advertisement. Whoever will apprehend the said servants, and deliver
              them on board the said sloop, or to Mr. Thomas Hodge, at Leeds town,
              shall be paid FIVE POUNDS reward, beside what the law allows. N. B. A
              boat was seen, the same day, going across the Bay, opposite to Gwynn's
              island, in which, most probably, were the above runaways.
              I suspect a search of other papers would yield similar results.
              As far as Muslims in early America it is important to remember that many
              of the slaves imported to the colonies came from parts of Africa that
              had populations that were majority Muslim, such as the Senegambia.
              Unfortunately most slave traders/owners did not record the particulars
              of slave religious practice, but by looking at things like the
              geographic regions that the slaves came from, material culture, and
              their naming practices it is possible to get an incomplete picture.
              Michael Gomez's article "Muslims in Early America" in the Journal of
              Southern History estimates that there were perhaps thousands of Muslim
              slaves in early America, but their religion was largely subsumed into
              the prevailing culture after several generations and as direct
              importation from Africa waned. Mount Vernon has done some research into
              the existence of Muslim slaves at Washington's estate, with some
              interesting results:
              http://www.mountvernon.org/educational-resources/encyclopedia/islam.
              Another well known group of early American Muslims were the South
              Carolina Moors, who petitioned the legislature in 1790 for an exception
              from the state's negro laws on the grounds of the Prince of Morocco's
              treaty with the United States:
              http://sciway3.net/clark/freemoors/journal.htm. Although practicing
              Muslims were certainly a small minority in early America the founding
              generation certainly had enough of an understanding of the religion to
              form a wide variety of opinions on it, as evidenced by the Library of
              Congress' summary here: http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0205/tolerance.html.
              I am in no way claiming that these groups had any direct military
              involvement in the Revolution, nor that they had a large or lasting
              influence on the development of colonial America. Clearly their numbers
              were small and their nature somewhat transitory. The fact is, however,
              that they were present, even in small numbers. I was able to find this
              information in less than a half an hour of internet searching, so I
              would be eager to see what more in depth research could reveal.
              Travis ShawQueen's Own Loyal Virginia Regt.

              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, swzypher@... wrote:
              >
              > Obama claims there were Muslim participants. So far I have not heard
              of
              > any being identified. Any word there???
              >
              >
              > In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:59:56 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
              > hgreenland1666@... writes:
              >
              > " . . .There are suggestions that French troops in India displayed an
              > American along with the French flag during the latter part of the
              Second Mysore
              > War.
              >
              > The Jewish role in the American Revolution is another often
              overlooked
              > topic, Haim Solomon for one. . . . "
              >
              > This may be a productive topic to explore.
              >
              > ~ William Myers, independant historian.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Todd Post
              I d also note that ethnicities often acclimated and lost their original identity. I doubt that the Taliferros would identify themselves as anything but
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
                I'd also note that ethnicities often acclimated and lost their original identity. I doubt that the Taliferros would identify themselves as anything but English, as they'd been in Virginia since the 17th century. Likewise, the "Jersey Dutch" may have spoken a creole Dutch language and attended the Reformed Church, but they had an influx of Poles, Walloons, and other ethnicities who were married into Dutch families and absorbed. That's how in Bergen County NJ the name Zabriskie is Jersey Dutch, though it is Silesian in origin.

                Cheers,
                Todd
              • Jack Gardner
                Francisco Miranda, a Venezuelan, fought under Galvez. After the war, he toured the U.S. and was so impressed, that he became the founder of the South American
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 21, 2012
                  Francisco Miranda, a Venezuelan, fought under Galvez. After the war, he
                  toured the U.S. and was so impressed, that he became the founder of the
                  South American independence movement. I believe the earliest foreign aid
                  ever voted by the U.S. was to Miranda's government when Caracas was hit by a
                  severe earthquake.

                  There were Haitians at Yorktown with Rochambeau and DeGrasse who became
                  involved in Haitian independence movement.


                  <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=95510/grpspId=1705137079/msgId=1
                  38066/stime=1353358701/nc1=5191955/nc2=4836042/nc3=5758223> Peter Francisco
                  was from the Portuguese Azores and Alexander Hamilton from Nevis in the
                  Leeward Islands.

                  The last battle was Cuddalore between the French fleet under Suffren and the
                  British under Sir Edward Hughes; it was the last of five major fleet
                  engagements off India and Sri Lanka, all long after Yorktown.

                  Where once the embattled farmers stood

                  And fired the shot heard around the world.

                  Jack Gardner









                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Sgt42rhr
                  South Carolina Anglican clergy Charles Woodmaspn documents amazing religious diversity in the back country some of which reveals differing countries of origin.
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 21, 2012
                    South Carolina Anglican clergy Charles Woodmaspn documents amazing religious diversity in the back country some of which reveals differing countries of origin. I imagine these folks would have been represented in the army.

                    John M. Johnston
                    “P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried; therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.

                    On Nov 21, 2012, at 6:52 PM, "Jack Gardner" <njgardner@...> wrote:

                    > Francisco Miranda, a Venezuelan, fought under Galvez. After the war, he
                    > toured the U.S. and was so impressed, that he became the founder of the
                    > South American independence movement. I believe the earliest foreign aid
                    > ever voted by the U.S. was to Miranda's government when Caracas was hit by a
                    > severe earthquake.
                    >
                    > There were Haitians at Yorktown with Rochambeau and DeGrasse who became
                    > involved in Haitian independence movement.
                    >
                    > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=95510/grpspId=1705137079/msgId=1
                    > 38066/stime=1353358701/nc1=5191955/nc2=4836042/nc3=5758223> Peter Francisco
                    > was from the Portuguese Azores and Alexander Hamilton from Nevis in the
                    > Leeward Islands.
                    >
                    > The last battle was Cuddalore between the French fleet under Suffren and the
                    > British under Sir Edward Hughes; it was the last of five major fleet
                    > engagements off India and Sri Lanka, all long after Yorktown.
                    >
                    > Where once the embattled farmers stood
                    >
                    > And fired the shot heard around the world.
                    >
                    > Jack Gardner
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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