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Unusual Ethnic Groups of the Revolution.

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  • William
    Dear List, A neglected fact of American history is that thousands of Chinese (and Mexicans) fought (and many died) for the Union in the Civil War; in the case
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 19, 2012
      Dear List,

      A neglected fact of American history is that thousands of Chinese (and Mexicans) fought (and many died) for the Union in the Civil War; in the case of the Chinese, it is often difficult to detect because they adopted English names. Chinese and Mexicans were employed as day-laborers in America during the railroad age (as were many Irish including my 2nd gt. grandfather, a Union veteran).

      Does anyone know of people of nationalities involved in the American Revolution that might be surprising? For instance: Italians like to claim William Paca, but genealogists have rejected attributing Italian to his background; but Taliaferro is a genuine Revolutionary War hero of apparently Italian extraction- northern Italy and Venice though some say French.

      Another neglected fact is the parallel of India and America. The Franco-American Alliance precipitated the Second Mysore War in India. The final battle of the American Revolution is considered to be a naval battle between French and English vessels off the coast of Cuddalore, India, in June 1783. Two American vessels of the Revolution were named for India's heroes Hyder Ali and Tippoo Saib. There are suggestions that French troops in India displayed an American along with the French flag during the latter part of the Second Mysore War.

      The Jewish role in the American Revolution is another often overlooked topic, Haim Solomon for one.

      This may be a productive topic to explore.

      ~ William Myers, independant historian.
    • swzypher@aol.com
      Obama claims there were Muslim participants. So far I have not heard of any being identified. Any word there??? In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:59:56 P.M.
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 19, 2012
        Obama claims there were Muslim participants. So far I have not heard of
        any being identified. Any word there???


        In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:59:56 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
        hgreenland1666@... writes:

        " . . .There are suggestions that French troops in India displayed an
        American along with the French flag during the latter part of the Second Mysore
        War.

        The Jewish role in the American Revolution is another often overlooked
        topic, Haim Solomon for one. . . . "

        This may be a productive topic to explore.

        ~ William Myers, independant historian.




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jaffray2000
        I can only speak per anecdote, but my father grew up in Virginia next door to some Taliaferros (they pronounced it Toliver ). They claimed to be of Norman
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
          I can only speak per anecdote, but my father grew up in Virginia next door to some Taliaferros (they pronounced it "Toliver"). They claimed to be of Norman French extraction, although I have never tracked it down to be sure.

          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <hgreenland1666@...> wrote:
          >
          >>
          > Does anyone know of people of nationalities involved in the American Revolution that might be surprising? For instance: Italians like to claim William Paca, but genealogists have rejected attributing Italian to his background; but Taliaferro is a genuine Revolutionary War hero of apparently Italian extraction- northern Italy and Venice though some say French.
          >
          > ~ William Myers, independant historian.
          >
        • Michael Grillo
          The only information I ve of Italians fighting were in 2 French Regiments. I ve found none in the Continental army. ________________________________ From:
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
            The only information I've of Italians fighting were in 2 French Regiments. I've found none in the Continental army.



            ________________________________
            From: jaffray2000 <andrewcbatten@...>
            To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:33 AM
            Subject: [Revlist] Re: Unusual Ethnic Groups of the Revolution.


             

            I can only speak per anecdote, but my father grew up in Virginia next door to some Taliaferros (they pronounced it "Toliver"). They claimed to be of Norman French extraction, although I have never tracked it down to be sure.

            --- In mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com, "William" <hgreenland1666@...> wrote:
            >
            >>
            > Does anyone know of people of nationalities involved in the American Revolution that might be surprising? For instance: Italians like to claim William Paca, but genealogists have rejected attributing Italian to his background; but Taliaferro is a genuine Revolutionary War hero of apparently Italian extraction- northern Italy and Venice though some say French.
            >
            > ~ William Myers, independant historian.
            >




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Robert Ducote
            Cajuns served in militia units in the Spanish Army of Louisiana under Governor-General Galvez. I have SAR membership from direct lineage to Corporal Pierre
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
              Cajuns served in militia units in the Spanish Army of Louisiana under Governor-General Galvez. I have SAR membership from direct lineage to Corporal Pierre Ducote of the Pointe Coupee Militia.

              Sent from my iPad

              On Nov 20, 2012, at 8:45, Michael Grillo <michaeljtgrillo@...> wrote:

              > The only information I've of Italians fighting were in 2 French Regiments. I've found none in the Continental army.
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: jaffray2000 <andrewcbatten@...>
              > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:33 AM
              > Subject: [Revlist] Re: Unusual Ethnic Groups of the Revolution.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I can only speak per anecdote, but my father grew up in Virginia next door to some Taliaferros (they pronounced it "Toliver"). They claimed to be of Norman French extraction, although I have never tracked it down to be sure.
              >
              > --- In mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com, "William" <hgreenland1666@...> wrote:
              > >
              > >>
              > > Does anyone know of people of nationalities involved in the American Revolution that might be surprising? For instance: Italians like to claim William Paca, but genealogists have rejected attributing Italian to his background; but Taliaferro is a genuine Revolutionary War hero of apparently Italian extraction- northern Italy and Venice though some say French.
              > >
              > > ~ William Myers, independant historian.
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • furious_t
              It s important to remember that the 18th century was a global age. People, goods, and ideas moved just as far around the world as they do today, if not as fast
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
                It's important to remember that the 18th century was a global age.
                People, goods, and ideas moved just as far around the world as they do
                today, if not as fast or in as great numbers. While I cannot speak to
                the direct military participation of various ethnic or religious groups
                in the Revolution there were certainly individuals living in or visiting
                the colonies from all over the world.
                East Indians were employed heavily as sailors by the East India Company
                throughout the 17th and 18th century. So many "Lascars" served aboard
                company vessels that it is partially responsible for the 1660 Navigation
                Act requirement that 3/4ths of any ships crew coming from Asia, Africa,
                or the Americas had to be English. Thousands visited England and the
                rest of the empire, and by the end of the 18th century some 10,000 had
                settled in Britain. The book Counterflows to Colonialism: Indian
                Travellers and Settlers in Britain, 1600–1857by Michael Fisher deals
                with this in detail. It's not that much of a stretch to think that at
                least some of the sailors travelling through colonial America's busy
                ports were of East Indian extraction.
                A cursory search of the Virginia Gazette runaway ads also features a few
                mentions of East Indian slave/servants:
                Virginia Gazette(Parks), Williamsburg , From April 15 to April 27, 1737.
                RAN away from Col. John Lewis's, in Gloucester County, on the 17th
                Inst. a square, strong made, [illeg.] jaw'd Mulatto Fellow, named
                George. He had on a brown Cotton jacket, and went away on a light Bay
                Horse, belonging to his Master, branded with a Heart. The Horse has a
                Black Mane and Tail. RAN away in Company with the above-mentioned, an
                East-Indian, belonging to Mr. Heylin, Merchant, in Gloucester : He is a
                well-made, small young Fellow, wore his own Hair (which he may have cut
                off in order to disguise himself:) He is supposed to have on an
                Olive-colour'd German Serge Coat, with Brass Buttons. He went away on a
                strong well-made Grey Stallion, branded with a Dott, belonging to his
                Master. They went from Col. Lewis's to Gloucester Town, where they
                robb'd a House, and took a Pair of Pistols, a Horse Whip, and 'tis
                supposed some other Things. They were seen on Monday going up King and
                Queen County. Whoever secures either of the fore-mentioned Servants,
                shall receive as a Reward, Two Pistoles ; for both of them, Four
                Pistoles, and for the Grey Stallion Two Pistoles; to be paid by John
                Lewis, and John Heylyn.

                Virginia Gazette(Rind), Williamsburg , August 4, 1768.
                Richmond county, July 14. RUN away about the 20th of May last, an
                East-India Indian, named Thomas Greenwich; he is a well made fellow,
                about 5 feet 4 inches high, wears his own hair, which is long and black,
                has a thin visage, a very sly look, and a remarkable set of fine white
                teeth. A reward of 40s. will be paid the person who delivers him to the
                subscriber, besides what the law allows. WILLIAM COLSTON.
                Virginia Gazette(Rind), Williamsburg , March 7, 1771.
                FEBRUARY 23, 1771. RUN away from the sloop Betsy, Edward Massey,
                commander, belonging to Mr. Thomas Hodge, out of Corotoman river, in
                Lancaster county, three servant man, viz, One named Samuel Tailer, an
                Englishman, about 5 feet and an half high, and about 19 years old; had,
                when he went away, two cloth coats, one of blue, the other of a claret
                colour, a claret coloured cloth jacket, check and white shirts. One
                Virginia born Negro, named Alexander Richardson, about 5 feet 10 inches
                high, about 21 years old, and much pock pitted; had on a light coloured
                fearnought lapelled jacket and breeches, and old oznabrig shirt, and one
                check ditto. The other an East Indian, upwards of 5 feet and a half
                high, about 22 years old, of a very dark complexion, and has long black
                hair; he had on an old blue jacket, a Negro cotton ditto, cotton
                breeches, and a check shirt, They are all three convicts, belonging to
                the said Thomas Hodge. They stole from the said sloop, a new broad cloth
                coat, made of superfine cloth, a striped silk jacket, and a pair of
                nankeen breeches, with a parcel of shirts and stockings; Also a nice
                foot boat, belonging to Mr. William Chilton. It is thought they will
                endeavour to get on board some vessel in order to get out of the
                country. All masters of vessels are desired to take notice of this
                advertisement. Whoever will apprehend the said servants, and deliver
                them on board the said sloop, or to Mr. Thomas Hodge, at Leeds town,
                shall be paid FIVE POUNDS reward, beside what the law allows. N. B. A
                boat was seen, the same day, going across the Bay, opposite to Gwynn's
                island, in which, most probably, were the above runaways.
                I suspect a search of other papers would yield similar results.
                As far as Muslims in early America it is important to remember that many
                of the slaves imported to the colonies came from parts of Africa that
                had populations that were majority Muslim, such as the Senegambia.
                Unfortunately most slave traders/owners did not record the particulars
                of slave religious practice, but by looking at things like the
                geographic regions that the slaves came from, material culture, and
                their naming practices it is possible to get an incomplete picture.
                Michael Gomez's article "Muslims in Early America" in the Journal of
                Southern History estimates that there were perhaps thousands of Muslim
                slaves in early America, but their religion was largely subsumed into
                the prevailing culture after several generations and as direct
                importation from Africa waned. Mount Vernon has done some research into
                the existence of Muslim slaves at Washington's estate, with some
                interesting results:
                http://www.mountvernon.org/educational-resources/encyclopedia/islam.
                Another well known group of early American Muslims were the South
                Carolina Moors, who petitioned the legislature in 1790 for an exception
                from the state's negro laws on the grounds of the Prince of Morocco's
                treaty with the United States:
                http://sciway3.net/clark/freemoors/journal.htm. Although practicing
                Muslims were certainly a small minority in early America the founding
                generation certainly had enough of an understanding of the religion to
                form a wide variety of opinions on it, as evidenced by the Library of
                Congress' summary here: http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0205/tolerance.html.
                I am in no way claiming that these groups had any direct military
                involvement in the Revolution, nor that they had a large or lasting
                influence on the development of colonial America. Clearly their numbers
                were small and their nature somewhat transitory. The fact is, however,
                that they were present, even in small numbers. I was able to find this
                information in less than a half an hour of internet searching, so I
                would be eager to see what more in depth research could reveal.
                Travis ShawQueen's Own Loyal Virginia Regt.

                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, swzypher@... wrote:
                >
                > Obama claims there were Muslim participants. So far I have not heard
                of
                > any being identified. Any word there???
                >
                >
                > In a message dated 11/19/2012 1:59:56 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
                > hgreenland1666@... writes:
                >
                > " . . .There are suggestions that French troops in India displayed an
                > American along with the French flag during the latter part of the
                Second Mysore
                > War.
                >
                > The Jewish role in the American Revolution is another often
                overlooked
                > topic, Haim Solomon for one. . . . "
                >
                > This may be a productive topic to explore.
                >
                > ~ William Myers, independant historian.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Todd Post
                I d also note that ethnicities often acclimated and lost their original identity. I doubt that the Taliferros would identify themselves as anything but
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
                  I'd also note that ethnicities often acclimated and lost their original identity. I doubt that the Taliferros would identify themselves as anything but English, as they'd been in Virginia since the 17th century. Likewise, the "Jersey Dutch" may have spoken a creole Dutch language and attended the Reformed Church, but they had an influx of Poles, Walloons, and other ethnicities who were married into Dutch families and absorbed. That's how in Bergen County NJ the name Zabriskie is Jersey Dutch, though it is Silesian in origin.

                  Cheers,
                  Todd
                • Jack Gardner
                  Francisco Miranda, a Venezuelan, fought under Galvez. After the war, he toured the U.S. and was so impressed, that he became the founder of the South American
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 21, 2012
                    Francisco Miranda, a Venezuelan, fought under Galvez. After the war, he
                    toured the U.S. and was so impressed, that he became the founder of the
                    South American independence movement. I believe the earliest foreign aid
                    ever voted by the U.S. was to Miranda's government when Caracas was hit by a
                    severe earthquake.

                    There were Haitians at Yorktown with Rochambeau and DeGrasse who became
                    involved in Haitian independence movement.


                    <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=95510/grpspId=1705137079/msgId=1
                    38066/stime=1353358701/nc1=5191955/nc2=4836042/nc3=5758223> Peter Francisco
                    was from the Portuguese Azores and Alexander Hamilton from Nevis in the
                    Leeward Islands.

                    The last battle was Cuddalore between the French fleet under Suffren and the
                    British under Sir Edward Hughes; it was the last of five major fleet
                    engagements off India and Sri Lanka, all long after Yorktown.

                    Where once the embattled farmers stood

                    And fired the shot heard around the world.

                    Jack Gardner









                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Sgt42rhr
                    South Carolina Anglican clergy Charles Woodmaspn documents amazing religious diversity in the back country some of which reveals differing countries of origin.
                    Message 9 of 9 , Nov 21, 2012
                      South Carolina Anglican clergy Charles Woodmaspn documents amazing religious diversity in the back country some of which reveals differing countries of origin. I imagine these folks would have been represented in the army.

                      John M. Johnston
                      “P.S. If you do not receive this, of course it must have been miscarried; therefore I beg you to write and let me know.” - Sir Boyle Roche, M.P.

                      On Nov 21, 2012, at 6:52 PM, "Jack Gardner" <njgardner@...> wrote:

                      > Francisco Miranda, a Venezuelan, fought under Galvez. After the war, he
                      > toured the U.S. and was so impressed, that he became the founder of the
                      > South American independence movement. I believe the earliest foreign aid
                      > ever voted by the U.S. was to Miranda's government when Caracas was hit by a
                      > severe earthquake.
                      >
                      > There were Haitians at Yorktown with Rochambeau and DeGrasse who became
                      > involved in Haitian independence movement.
                      >
                      > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=95510/grpspId=1705137079/msgId=1
                      > 38066/stime=1353358701/nc1=5191955/nc2=4836042/nc3=5758223> Peter Francisco
                      > was from the Portuguese Azores and Alexander Hamilton from Nevis in the
                      > Leeward Islands.
                      >
                      > The last battle was Cuddalore between the French fleet under Suffren and the
                      > British under Sir Edward Hughes; it was the last of five major fleet
                      > engagements off India and Sri Lanka, all long after Yorktown.
                      >
                      > Where once the embattled farmers stood
                      >
                      > And fired the shot heard around the world.
                      >
                      > Jack Gardner
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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