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Re:"Big Battles" vs "Living History"

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  • gourdidol
    Very good point, Tim. BUT - this is the REV-list, not the 18thC culture list. And, the initial post was about regular events with battles versus military
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 1, 2012
      Very good point, Tim.

      BUT - this is the REV-list, not the 18thC culture list.
      And, the initial post was about "regular" events with battles versus military living history events without battles.

      And, I can assure you that you'd be hard put to find someone more interested and aware of general 18thC culture (military or very much otherwise) than Greg Theberge is. The guy's a friggin' one-man museum of extant *civilian* artifacts for one thing...

      cheers,
      Niels
      40th / PCM


      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "barontigranes" <tigranes@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Good Day,
      >
      >
      > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Theberge <gstheberge@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Living history programs don't have to be anything about being a tinsmith, blacksmith, showing a craft, etc. - not that there's anything wrong with that.  It's usually about being a soldier, plain and simple.
      > >
      > I the interest of full disclosure, I'll say up front that I have been learning blacksmithing for over 12 years, and it is my primary occupation within my preoccupation of this hobby. It is through that perspective that my opinions have developed.
      >
      > I would respectfully disagree with your assessment. While I understand that the AWI is what most people think of when they think of the latter half of the 18th century, a very small percentage of the white adult male population of the colonies was involved in the conflict. Meanwhile it was the tinsmiths, blacksmiths, farmers, women, etc. that were doing most of the living.
      >
      > As such, to *only* portray soldiers' life at a living history program is not really correctly educating the public about what day to day life was like in the 18th century.
      >
      > >
      > > Of course, we all have our different opinion on how we should represent history. Unfortunately, some call us "snobs" (or worse) for doing research, learning, and working our tails off to do things right. 
      > >
      > >
      > > Greg
      >
      > I have respect for the amount of research and effort it takes for those who do things right. I would ask that you consider not only the amount of research and learning, but also the real skill and talent that goes into doing a period trade. There are many who could do a decent soldier impression just by shelling out the money for a good kit and a couple weekends of practice drill. A demonstrating tradesman can't get away with faking it as easily. Sure, someone can bang out S hooks or make nails all day, but that doesn't really engage the public either.
      >
      > What I'm basically encouraging is a broader focus in "living history" than only military impressions. That's what I actually took from the original question of "Big Battles" vs "Living History." That the "Big Battle" is all about military, while "Living History" includes more. And I believe the public gets more as well.
      >
      > Yours,
      >
      > Tim Button
      >
    • Casey O'leary
      All, Thanks so much for your feedback. I m looking forward to hitting the field for the first time, and meeting all the good people who help make this hobby
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 1, 2012
        All,
        Thanks so much for your feedback. I'm looking forward to hitting the field for the first time, and meeting all the good people who help make this hobby work. I do appreciate everyone staying PG with their responses and not diving into the "my way is better than your way" type of replies that seem to swarm not only this list but also facebook, blogs, etc. etc.

        I asked this question after seeing posts all over the place that read "I wouldn't be caught dead at a BIG BATTLE reenactment" or "I'm just hear to shoot my gun." I'm very happy with what I read. I was worried that I'd be opening the door open for more taunts and arguments.

        Casey

        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "barontigranes" <tigranes@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Good Day,
        >
        >
        > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Theberge <gstheberge@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Living history programs don't have to be anything about being a tinsmith, blacksmith, showing a craft, etc. - not that there's anything wrong with that.  It's usually about being a soldier, plain and simple.
        > >
        > I the interest of full disclosure, I'll say up front that I have been learning blacksmithing for over 12 years, and it is my primary occupation within my preoccupation of this hobby. It is through that perspective that my opinions have developed.
        >
        > I would respectfully disagree with your assessment. While I understand that the AWI is what most people think of when they think of the latter half of the 18th century, a very small percentage of the white adult male population of the colonies was involved in the conflict. Meanwhile it was the tinsmiths, blacksmiths, farmers, women, etc. that were doing most of the living.
        >
        > As such, to *only* portray soldiers' life at a living history program is not really correctly educating the public about what day to day life was like in the 18th century.
        >
        > >
        > > Of course, we all have our different opinion on how we should represent history. Unfortunately, some call us "snobs" (or worse) for doing research, learning, and working our tails off to do things right. 
        > >
        > >
        > > Greg
        >
        > I have respect for the amount of research and effort it takes for those who do things right. I would ask that you consider not only the amount of research and learning, but also the real skill and talent that goes into doing a period trade. There are many who could do a decent soldier impression just by shelling out the money for a good kit and a couple weekends of practice drill. A demonstrating tradesman can't get away with faking it as easily. Sure, someone can bang out S hooks or make nails all day, but that doesn't really engage the public either.
        >
        > What I'm basically encouraging is a broader focus in "living history" than only military impressions. That's what I actually took from the original question of "Big Battles" vs "Living History." That the "Big Battle" is all about military, while "Living History" includes more. And I believe the public gets more as well.
        >
        > Yours,
        >
        > Tim Button
        >
      • Gregory Theberge
        Tim, You COMPLETELY misunderstood my comment (why does everyone expect the worse?). Like I said, there is nothing wrong with doing tinsmithing, blacksmithing,
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 2, 2012
          Tim,

          You COMPLETELY misunderstood my comment (why does everyone expect the worse?). Like I said, there is nothing wrong with doing tinsmithing, blacksmithing, etc.  as part of a living history event. My comment was to say that regular soldiers can, and SHOULD, do living history as well. Of course, soldiers are the meat and potatoes that make up a camp when we gather to put on an "event" for the public. I'm not talking about the civilian things we do at other times.

          That said, after reading some other posts, "living history" involves more than just cleaning your musket and doing kit repairs. While these things are good, "living history"  relies on spending time and effort to create proper material culture with research. The sad thing is that the research is so EASILY available to everyone. (If anyone can't find it, just ask).  I'll leave it at that.

          Greg


          ________________________________
          From: barontigranes <tigranes@...>
          To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 10:52 PM
          Subject: [Revlist] Re:"Big Battles" vs "Living History"


           

          Good Day,

          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Theberge <gstheberge@...> wrote:
          >
          > Living history programs don't have to be anything about being a tinsmith, blacksmith, showing a craft, etc. - not that there's anything wrong with that.  It's usually about being a soldier, plain and simple.
          >
          I the interest of full disclosure, I'll say up front that I have been learning blacksmithing for over 12 years, and it is my primary occupation within my preoccupation of this hobby. It is through that perspective that my opinions have developed.

          I would respectfully disagree with your assessment. While I understand that the AWI is what most people think of when they think of the latter half of the 18th century, a very small percentage of the white adult male population of the colonies was involved in the conflict. Meanwhile it was the tinsmiths, blacksmiths, farmers, women, etc. that were doing most of the living.

          As such, to *only* portray soldiers' life at a living history program is not really correctly educating the public about what day to day life was like in the 18th century.

          >
          > Of course, we all have our different opinion on how we should represent history. Unfortunately, some call us "snobs" (or worse) for doing research, learning, and working our tails off to do things right. 
          >
          >
          > Greg

          I have respect for the amount of research and effort it takes for those who do things right. I would ask that you consider not only the amount of research and learning, but also the real skill and talent that goes into doing a period trade. There are many who could do a decent soldier impression just by shelling out the money for a good kit and a couple weekends of practice drill. A demonstrating tradesman can't get away with faking it as easily. Sure, someone can bang out S hooks or make nails all day, but that doesn't really engage the public either.

          What I'm basically encouraging is a broader focus in "living history" than only military impressions. That's what I actually took from the original question of "Big Battles" vs "Living History." That the "Big Battle" is all about military, while "Living History" includes more. And I believe the public gets more as well.

          Yours,

          Tim Button




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Gregory Theberge
          As Niels mentioned, I have a pretty strong interest in all aspects of 18th century material culture and have two articles and numerous slideshows on various
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 2, 2012
            As Niels mentioned, I have a pretty strong interest in all aspects of 18th century material culture and have two articles and numerous slideshows on various subjects posted online. These are all available to anyone who wants to see them. As a general rule, we have wonderful discussions on these subjects on Facebook, where we spend more time talking about the material itself and not about the philosphy of doing it right or wrong. Quite honestly, I'm tired of those types of ridiculous discussions.

            Anyway, here are links to numerous topics if you want to read them. If you focus on the first two, provisions/kitchens and proper tent construction, our hobby will improve a thousand fold. In fact, if everyone took this information to heart, it may even create world peace and repair the ozone layer.

            I have MANY more topics not posted yet, to be added when I have the time to do so.

            Greg Theberge

            Kitchens and Provisions of the British Army:  
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/65129644/To-Nourish-the-Troops

            Proper 18th Century Tent Construction:
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/78200746/The-Tent-Article

            18th Century Spectacles: 
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/58556718/Spectacles-Copy

            18th Century Footwear:
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/78373813/Footwear

            18th Century Male Hats & Caps:
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/79055008/Hats-Caps-Male

            18th Century Civilian Cooking Material Culture:
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/78325444/Culinary-Arts

            18th Century Drinking Material Culture:
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/63294720/Drinking

            18th Century Wallets, Pocketbooks, and Pockets:
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/76798554/Wallets-Pocketbooks-Pockets

            18th Century Medical and Apothecary:
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/78374715/Medical-Apothecary

            18th Century Extant Male Garments:
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/79164746/Dress-Male-Extant-Garments

            18th Century British Navy & Nautical:
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/59671077/Military-British-Navy-Marines-Nautical?secret_password=ehyq8ibdu8ns8w2tdsh

            John Wilkes and Liberty:
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/77241301/Wilkes-and-Liberty

            The Art of Paul Sandby:
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/80181944/Sandby-Paul


            ________________________________
            From: gourdidol <hamavos.niels@...>
            To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2012 11:28 PM
            Subject: [Revlist] Re:"Big Battles" vs "Living History"


             
            Very good point, Tim.

            BUT - this is the REV-list, not the 18thC culture list.
            And, the initial post was about "regular" events with battles versus military living history events without battles.

            And, I can assure you that you'd be hard put to find someone more interested and aware of general 18thC culture (military or very much otherwise) than Greg Theberge is. The guy's a friggin' one-man museum of extant *civilian* artifacts for one thing...

            cheers,
            Niels
            40th / PCM

            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "barontigranes" <tigranes@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Good Day,
            >
            >
            > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Theberge <gstheberge@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Living history programs don't have to be anything about being a tinsmith, blacksmith, showing a craft, etc. - not that there's anything wrong with that.  It's usually about being a soldier, plain and simple.
            > >
            > I the interest of full disclosure, I'll say up front that I have been learning blacksmithing for over 12 years, and it is my primary occupation within my preoccupation of this hobby. It is through that perspective that my opinions have developed.
            >
            > I would respectfully disagree with your assessment. While I understand that the AWI is what most people think of when they think of the latter half of the 18th century, a very small percentage of the white adult male population of the colonies was involved in the conflict. Meanwhile it was the tinsmiths, blacksmiths, farmers, women, etc. that were doing most of the living.
            >
            > As such, to *only* portray soldiers' life at a living history program is not really correctly educating the public about what day to day life was like in the 18th century.
            >
            > >
            > > Of course, we all have our different opinion on how we should represent history. Unfortunately, some call us "snobs" (or worse) for doing research, learning, and working our tails off to do things right. 
            > >
            > >
            > > Greg
            >
            > I have respect for the amount of research and effort it takes for those who do things right. I would ask that you consider not only the amount of research and learning, but also the real skill and talent that goes into doing a period trade. There are many who could do a decent soldier impression just by shelling out the money for a good kit and a couple weekends of practice drill. A demonstrating tradesman can't get away with faking it as easily. Sure, someone can bang out S hooks or make nails all day, but that doesn't really engage the public either.
            >
            > What I'm basically encouraging is a broader focus in "living history" than only military impressions. That's what I actually took from the original question of "Big Battles" vs "Living History." That the "Big Battle" is all about military, while "Living History" includes more. And I believe the public gets more as well.
            >
            > Yours,
            >
            > Tim Button
            >




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • ebolton123
            Doug, Militia Sailor ? Cheers, Bob Bolton Pa. Associators
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 2, 2012
              Doug,
              "Militia Sailor"?
              Cheers,
              Bob Bolton
              Pa. Associators



              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > After a powderburner battle I like to sit on a stump in front of camp and clean my musket using period methods and materials from my canteen & shooting bag, and explain to the kids that they didn't have this or that and how they made do with what they had.
              >
              > Or sometimes if we have had a "tentage malfunction", as a militia sailor I pull out my sailmaker's needles and stitch the tent. Or I may simply scrub out a cooking pot with sand, water and a rag. It doesn't take great skill or materials to make a bit of a show and deliver some good lessons.
              >
              > SherpaDoug, YMM
              >
            • barontigranes
              Greg, I apologize. I was not trying to come across like I was expecting the worst. It was only the line It s usually about being a solier, plain and
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 2, 2012
                Greg,

                I apologize. I was not trying to come across like I was expecting the worst. It was only the line "It's usually about being a solier, plain and simple." seemed very specific, and that was what I was disagreeing with. And when I said respectfully, I meant it. I have read many of your posts and I can see the level of your knowledge and can only guess at the amount of research and work you have done. I was was being unfair when I asked that "you" consider the skills and talent that go into the trades. I should have made it a more broad request to the hobby in general, not just you.

                I agree with you in the points you have made below.

                Again, sorry if I jumped to wrong conclusions.

                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Theberge <gstheberge@...> wrote:
                >
                > Tim,
                >
                > You COMPLETELY misunderstood my comment (why does everyone expect the worse?). Like I said, there is nothing wrong with doing tinsmithing, blacksmithing, etc.  as part of a living history event. My comment was to say that regular soldiers can, and SHOULD, do living history as well. Of course, soldiers are the meat and potatoes that make up a camp when we gather to put on an "event" for the public. I'm not talking about the civilian things we do at other times.
                >
                > That said, after reading some other posts, "living history" involves more than just cleaning your musket and doing kit repairs. While these things are good, "living history"  relies on spending time and effort to create proper material culture with research. The sad thing is that the research is so EASILY available to everyone. (If anyone can't find it, just ask).  I'll leave it at that.
                >
                > Greg
                >
              • barontigranes
                Niels, I would refer you to the description of the Revlist from the home page: RevList is an active community of living historians, re-enactors, research
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 2, 2012
                  Niels,

                  I would refer you to the description of the Revlist from the home page:
                  RevList is an active community of living historians, re-enactors, research historians, historical writers, genealogists, and other persons interested ***in the period of time during which the American War of Independence was fought.*** Typical topics of correspondence are military battles, life in camp, material culture of the times, weapons, the social order of colonial America, ***and just about anything else on subjects pertaining to the mid to late eighteenth century.*** (emphasis mine)
                  So this list is for more than exclusively military topics.

                  I also re-read the original post on this thread, where Casey O'Leary was asking about "doing a Living History Event rather than a "regular" Battle Reenactment." No where in his post does he use the phrase "military living history."

                  I believe my points are relevant to reenacting "material culture of the times, as well as the social order of colonial America. Just as the Revlist description sets out. I ask that they not be dismissed out of hand because they are not military.

                  Yours,

                  Tim Button

                  --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "gourdidol" <hamavos.niels@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Very good point, Tim.
                  >
                  > BUT - this is the REV-list, not the 18thC culture list.
                  > And, the initial post was about "regular" events with battles versus military living history events without battles.
                  >
                • Douglas
                  My back story is that I am a Cape Cod sailor. In my youth I sailed the north Atlantic carrying timber, grain, rum, slaves, cloth, all the usual commodities.
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 3, 2012
                    My back story is that I am a Cape Cod sailor. In my youth I sailed the north Atlantic carrying timber, grain, rum, slaves, cloth, all the usual commodities. More recently I have been serving on ships delivering bricks and timber, and maybe a little contraband to Boston. As a sailor signed onto a vessel I would be exempt from militia duty. However my ship has been impounded in Boston, so I have lost my exemption.

                    That is why I am a sailor in the Yarmouth militia.

                    SherpaDoug
                    AKA Daniel Beckett YMM

                    --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "ebolton123" <ebolton123@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Doug,
                    > "Militia Sailor"?
                    > Cheers,
                    > Bob Bolton
                    > Pa. Associators
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > After a powderburner battle I like to sit on a stump in front of camp and clean my musket using period methods and materials from my canteen & shooting bag, and explain to the kids that they didn't have this or that and how they made do with what they had.
                    > >
                    > > Or sometimes if we have had a "tentage malfunction", as a militia sailor I pull out my sailmaker's needles and stitch the tent. Or I may simply scrub out a cooking pot with sand, water and a rag. It doesn't take great skill or materials to make a bit of a show and deliver some good lessons.
                    > >
                    > > SherpaDoug, YMM
                    > >
                    >
                  • ebolton123
                    Doug, Cool character development. I have worn my sailors stuff, toned down a bit, doing Militia and got chaffed at. I tried the same kinda back story, that I
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 3, 2012
                      Doug,
                      Cool character development. I have worn my sailors stuff, toned down a bit, doing Militia and got chaffed at. I tried the same kinda back story, that I was "out of a job" while the Brits held Philadelphia, and I was landlocked.
                      I don't think a guy would not wear his day in-day out clothing he was used to onboard ship or galley, just because he was a hundred miles inland?
                      Cheers,
                      Bob Bolton
                      Pa. Associators


                      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > My back story is that I am a Cape Cod sailor. In my youth I sailed the north Atlantic carrying timber, grain, rum, slaves, cloth, all the usual commodities. More recently I have been serving on ships delivering bricks and timber, and maybe a little contraband to Boston. As a sailor signed onto a vessel I would be exempt from militia duty. However my ship has been impounded in Boston, so I have lost my exemption.
                      >
                      > That is why I am a sailor in the Yarmouth militia.
                      >
                      > SherpaDoug
                      > AKA Daniel Beckett YMM
                      >
                      > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "ebolton123" <ebolton123@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Doug,
                      > > "Militia Sailor"?
                      > > Cheers,
                      > > Bob Bolton
                      > > Pa. Associators
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > After a powderburner battle I like to sit on a stump in front of camp and clean my musket using period methods and materials from my canteen & shooting bag, and explain to the kids that they didn't have this or that and how they made do with what they had.
                      > > >
                      > > > Or sometimes if we have had a "tentage malfunction", as a militia sailor I pull out my sailmaker's needles and stitch the tent. Or I may simply scrub out a cooking pot with sand, water and a rag. It doesn't take great skill or materials to make a bit of a show and deliver some good lessons.
                      > > >
                      > > > SherpaDoug, YMM
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Gregory Theberge
                      If you only knew.... ________________________________ From: ebolton123 To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 6:09
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 3, 2012
                        If you only knew....


                        ________________________________
                        From: ebolton123 <ebolton123@...>
                        To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 6:09 PM
                        Subject: [Revlist] Re:"Big Battles" vs "Living History"


                         
                        Doug,
                        Cool character development. I have worn my sailors stuff, toned down a bit, doing Militia and got chaffed at. I tried the same kinda back story, that I was "out of a job" while the Brits held Philadelphia, and I was landlocked.
                        I don't think a guy would not wear his day in-day out clothing he was used to onboard ship or galley, just because he was a hundred miles inland?
                        Cheers,
                        Bob Bolton
                        Pa. Associators


                        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > My back story is that I am a Cape Cod sailor. In my youth I sailed the north Atlantic carrying timber, grain, rum, slaves, cloth, all the usual commodities. More recently I have been serving on ships delivering bricks and timber, and maybe a little contraband to Boston. As a sailor signed onto a vessel I would be exempt from militia duty. However my ship has been impounded in Boston, so I have lost my exemption.
                        >
                        > That is why I am a sailor in the Yarmouth militia.
                        >
                        > SherpaDoug
                        > AKA Daniel Beckett YMM
                        >
                        > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "ebolton123" <ebolton123@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Doug,
                        > > "Militia Sailor"?
                        > > Cheers,
                        > > Bob Bolton
                        > > Pa. Associators
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > After a powderburner battle I like to sit on a stump in front of camp and clean my musket using period methods and materials from my canteen & shooting bag, and explain to the kids that they didn't have this or that and how they made do with what they had.
                        > > >
                        > > > Or sometimes if we have had a "tentage malfunction", as a militia sailor I pull out my sailmaker's needles and stitch the tent. Or I may simply scrub out a cooking pot with sand, water and a rag. It doesn't take great skill or materials to make a bit of a show and deliver some good lessons.
                        > > >
                        > > > SherpaDoug, YMM
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Douglas
                        I don t know much about Philadelphia, but isn t it on a navigable river? What did the river boatmen wear? In Boston it seems the dockworkers wore similar
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 3, 2012
                          I don't know much about Philadelphia, but isn't it on a navigable river? What did the river boatmen wear? In Boston it seems the dockworkers wore similar clothing to the sailors.

                          SherpaDoug

                          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Theberge <gstheberge@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > If you only knew....
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: ebolton123 <ebolton123@...>
                          > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 6:09 PM
                          > Subject: [Revlist] Re:"Big Battles" vs "Living History"
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          > Doug,
                          > Cool character development. I have worn my sailors stuff, toned down a bit, doing Militia and got chaffed at. I tried the same kinda back story, that I was "out of a job" while the Brits held Philadelphia, and I was landlocked.
                          > I don't think a guy would not wear his day in-day out clothing he was used to onboard ship or galley, just because he was a hundred miles inland?
                          > Cheers,
                          > Bob Bolton
                          > Pa. Associators
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > My back story is that I am a Cape Cod sailor. In my youth I sailed the north Atlantic carrying timber, grain, rum, slaves, cloth, all the usual commodities. More recently I have been serving on ships delivering bricks and timber, and maybe a little contraband to Boston. As a sailor signed onto a vessel I would be exempt from militia duty. However my ship has been impounded in Boston, so I have lost my exemption.
                          > >
                          > > That is why I am a sailor in the Yarmouth militia.
                          > >
                          > > SherpaDoug
                          > > AKA Daniel Beckett YMM
                          > >
                          <SNIP>
                        • ebolton123
                          Greg, ...? Are you saying you get chaffed at too? Or are you asking if I knew if a guy would wear his ships clothing inland? Cheers, Bob Bolton Pa.
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 3, 2012
                            Greg,
                            ...? Are you saying you get chaffed at too? Or are you asking if "I knew" if a guy would wear his ships clothing inland?
                            Cheers,
                            Bob Bolton
                            Pa. Associators

                            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Theberge <gstheberge@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > If you only knew....
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: ebolton123 <ebolton123@...>
                            > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 6:09 PM
                            > Subject: [Revlist] Re:"Big Battles" vs "Living History"
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            > Doug,
                            > Cool character development. I have worn my sailors stuff, toned down a bit, doing Militia and got chaffed at. I tried the same kinda back story, that I was "out of a job" while the Brits held Philadelphia, and I was landlocked.
                            > I don't think a guy would not wear his day in-day out clothing he was used to onboard ship or galley, just because he was a hundred miles inland?
                            > Cheers,
                            > Bob Bolton
                            > Pa. Associators
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > My back story is that I am a Cape Cod sailor. In my youth I sailed the north Atlantic carrying timber, grain, rum, slaves, cloth, all the usual commodities. More recently I have been serving on ships delivering bricks and timber, and maybe a little contraband to Boston. As a sailor signed onto a vessel I would be exempt from militia duty. However my ship has been impounded in Boston, so I have lost my exemption.
                            > >
                            > > That is why I am a sailor in the Yarmouth militia.
                            > >
                            > > SherpaDoug
                            > > AKA Daniel Beckett YMM
                            > >
                            > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "ebolton123" <ebolton123@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Doug,
                            > > > "Militia Sailor"?
                            > > > Cheers,
                            > > > Bob Bolton
                            > > > Pa. Associators
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > After a powderburner battle I like to sit on a stump in front of camp and clean my musket using period methods and materials from my canteen & shooting bag, and explain to the kids that they didn't have this or that and how they made do with what they had.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Or sometimes if we have had a "tentage malfunction", as a militia sailor I pull out my sailmaker's needles and stitch the tent. Or I may simply scrub out a cooking pot with sand, water and a rag. It doesn't take great skill or materials to make a bit of a show and deliver some good lessons.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > SherpaDoug, YMM
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • ebolton123
                            Doug, The Delaware is a fairly navigable river that dumps into the Delaware bay thence into the Atlantic. There is a very long nautical tradition in the area.
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 3, 2012
                              Doug,
                              The Delaware is a fairly navigable river that dumps into the Delaware bay thence into the Atlantic. There is a very long nautical tradition in the area. The Pa. State Navy operated some decent sized ships in the area. It was one of the colonies chief ports. Philadelphia was home to a great many Fishermen, Watermen, Sailors, etc. I can only imagine that working class water-folk dressed very close to what the navy was wearing (in Continental and State definitions was hardly uniform), in styling.
                              In Billy G. Smith's book, " The Lower Sort; Philadelphia's Laboring People, 1750-1800, pages 216-217 tell of the huge amount of sea traffic the dock's saw. On page 217, there is a chart compiled from the customs house showing that in 1775 alone, 809 Ships docked in Philadelphia. Though it does not indicate types of ships, due to the narrowing of the Delaware above Philly, it would seem to indicate that a great majority of these "ships" must have been Ocean going vessels entering from the Atlantic up Delaware Bay and into the Delaware River to Philadelphia.
                              I would say that folks living and working in a like environment, would naturally adapt any special clothing or styles of clothing to distinguish themselves and to well, just fit in. But, that is purely my own idea. If you spend any time around a major port today it is sad how "industrial" it seems in comparison. The safety and OSHA requirements mean that most port workers look more like construction workers than "old salts"
                              ...man, I was born at the wrong time!
                              Cheers,
                              Bob Bolton
                              Pa. Associators


                              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I don't know much about Philadelphia, but isn't it on a navigable river? What did the river boatmen wear? In Boston it seems the dockworkers wore similar clothing to the sailors.
                              >
                              > SherpaDoug
                              >
                              > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Theberge <gstheberge@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > If you only knew....
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ________________________________
                              > > From: ebolton123 <ebolton123@>
                              > > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 6:09 PM
                              > > Subject: [Revlist] Re:"Big Battles" vs "Living History"
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >  
                              > > Doug,
                              > > Cool character development. I have worn my sailors stuff, toned down a bit, doing Militia and got chaffed at. I tried the same kinda back story, that I was "out of a job" while the Brits held Philadelphia, and I was landlocked.
                              > > I don't think a guy would not wear his day in-day out clothing he was used to onboard ship or galley, just because he was a hundred miles inland?
                              > > Cheers,
                              > > Bob Bolton
                              > > Pa. Associators
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > My back story is that I am a Cape Cod sailor. In my youth I sailed the north Atlantic carrying timber, grain, rum, slaves, cloth, all the usual commodities. More recently I have been serving on ships delivering bricks and timber, and maybe a little contraband to Boston. As a sailor signed onto a vessel I would be exempt from militia duty. However my ship has been impounded in Boston, so I have lost my exemption.
                              > > >
                              > > > That is why I am a sailor in the Yarmouth militia.
                              > > >
                              > > > SherpaDoug
                              > > > AKA Daniel Beckett YMM
                              > > >
                              > <SNIP>
                              >
                            • Gregory Theberge
                              Bob, I have seen firshand many things, and there are some things that simply dumbfound me. When you and I discuss things, I know that (even though you and I
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
                                Bob, I have seen firshand many things, and there are some things that simply dumbfound me. When you and I discuss things, I know that (even though you and I don't agree on everything) you care about historical accuracy and try to do things as best as possible (as do we, it's an attempt). That said, there is another aspect of this "hobby" that I just don't get, and will never understand, but I have to leave it at that. I know that's ambiguous, but my psychiatrist tells me to stop getting so worked up when I read things on the internet <G>. 

                                (In other words, my comment wasn't directed about your knowledge of 18th century ship's clothing <G>)

                                Greg


                                ________________________________
                                From: ebolton123 <ebolton123@...>
                                To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 1:31 AM
                                Subject: [Revlist] Re:"Big Battles" vs "Living History"


                                 
                                Greg,
                                ...? Are you saying you get chaffed at too? Or are you asking if "I knew" if a guy would wear his ships clothing inland?
                                Cheers,
                                Bob Bolton
                                Pa. Associators

                                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Theberge <gstheberge@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > If you only knew....
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: ebolton123 <ebolton123@...>
                                > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 6:09 PM
                                > Subject: [Revlist] Re:"Big Battles" vs "Living History"
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                > Doug,
                                > Cool character development. I have worn my sailors stuff, toned down a bit, doing Militia and got chaffed at. I tried the same kinda back story, that I was "out of a job" while the Brits held Philadelphia, and I was landlocked.
                                > I don't think a guy would not wear his day in-day out clothing he was used to onboard ship or galley, just because he was a hundred miles inland?
                                > Cheers,
                                > Bob Bolton
                                > Pa. Associators
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > My back story is that I am a Cape Cod sailor. In my youth I sailed the north Atlantic carrying timber, grain, rum, slaves, cloth, all the usual commodities. More recently I have been serving on ships delivering bricks and timber, and maybe a little contraband to Boston. As a sailor signed onto a vessel I would be exempt from militia duty. However my ship has been impounded in Boston, so I have lost my exemption.
                                > >
                                > > That is why I am a sailor in the Yarmouth militia.
                                > >
                                > > SherpaDoug
                                > > AKA Daniel Beckett YMM
                                > >
                                > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "ebolton123" <ebolton123@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Doug,
                                > > > "Militia Sailor"?
                                > > > Cheers,
                                > > > Bob Bolton
                                > > > Pa. Associators
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > After a powderburner battle I like to sit on a stump in front of camp and clean my musket using period methods and materials from my canteen & shooting bag, and explain to the kids that they didn't have this or that and how they made do with what they had.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Or sometimes if we have had a "tentage malfunction", as a militia sailor I pull out my sailmaker's needles and stitch the tent. Or I may simply scrub out a cooking pot with sand, water and a rag. It doesn't take great skill or materials to make a bit of a show and deliver some good lessons.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > SherpaDoug, YMM
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • ebolton123
                                Greg, (Laughing to myself)...I know we don t agree on everything, and thats fine, but I have to say (again laughing to myself) that you have a unique way of
                                Message 15 of 20 , Feb 4, 2012
                                  Greg,
                                  (Laughing to myself)...I know we don't agree on everything, and thats fine, but I have to say (again laughing to myself) that you have a unique way of saying something to someone (or maybe just me) and leaving the door wide open as to if it's good or bad? ;)
                                  Cheers,
                                  Bob Bolton
                                  Pa. Associators

                                  --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Theberge <gstheberge@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Bob, I have seen firshand many things, and there are some things that simply dumbfound me. When you and I discuss things, I know that (even though you and I don't agree on everything) you care about historical accuracy and try to do things as best as possible (as do we, it's an attempt). That said, there is another aspect of this "hobby" that I just don't get, and will never understand, but I have to leave it at that. I know that's ambiguous, but my psychiatrist tells me to stop getting so worked up when I read things on the internet <G>. 
                                  >
                                  > (In other words, my comment wasn't directed about your knowledge of 18th century ship's clothing <G>)
                                  >
                                  > Greg
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: ebolton123 <ebolton123@...>
                                  > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 1:31 AM
                                  > Subject: [Revlist] Re:"Big Battles" vs "Living History"
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > Greg,
                                  > ...? Are you saying you get chaffed at too? Or are you asking if "I knew" if a guy would wear his ships clothing inland?
                                  > Cheers,
                                  > Bob Bolton
                                  > Pa. Associators
                                  >
                                  > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Theberge <gstheberge@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > If you only knew....
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ________________________________
                                  > > From: ebolton123 <ebolton123@>
                                  > > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 6:09 PM
                                  > > Subject: [Revlist] Re:"Big Battles" vs "Living History"
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >  
                                  > > Doug,
                                  > > Cool character development. I have worn my sailors stuff, toned down a bit, doing Militia and got chaffed at. I tried the same kinda back story, that I was "out of a job" while the Brits held Philadelphia, and I was landlocked.
                                  > > I don't think a guy would not wear his day in-day out clothing he was used to onboard ship or galley, just because he was a hundred miles inland?
                                  > > Cheers,
                                  > > Bob Bolton
                                  > > Pa. Associators
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > My back story is that I am a Cape Cod sailor. In my youth I sailed the north Atlantic carrying timber, grain, rum, slaves, cloth, all the usual commodities. More recently I have been serving on ships delivering bricks and timber, and maybe a little contraband to Boston. As a sailor signed onto a vessel I would be exempt from militia duty. However my ship has been impounded in Boston, so I have lost my exemption.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > That is why I am a sailor in the Yarmouth militia.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > SherpaDoug
                                  > > > AKA Daniel Beckett YMM
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "ebolton123" <ebolton123@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Doug,
                                  > > > > "Militia Sailor"?
                                  > > > > Cheers,
                                  > > > > Bob Bolton
                                  > > > > Pa. Associators
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <sherpadoug@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > After a powderburner battle I like to sit on a stump in front of camp and clean my musket using period methods and materials from my canteen & shooting bag, and explain to the kids that they didn't have this or that and how they made do with what they had.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Or sometimes if we have had a "tentage malfunction", as a militia sailor I pull out my sailmaker's needles and stitch the tent. Or I may simply scrub out a cooking pot with sand, water and a rag. It doesn't take great skill or materials to make a bit of a show and deliver some good lessons.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > SherpaDoug, YMM
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
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