Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Bikers at Guilford

Expand Messages
  • kg4zoa
    Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control at Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the battle,
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 15, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control at
      Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the
      battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of cannon)
      while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures, and
      took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were spectators
      trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade between the
      two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's battle,
      there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and
      O'Kelley's "Hessians."


      Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my mind, it
      presented a large safety and liability hazard.

      Thoughts?


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Fred
      Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes? Either way yes that would be a safety issue... Fred Lucas
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 16, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes?

        Either way yes that would be a safety issue...

        Fred Lucas





        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, kg4zoa <kg4zoa@...> wrote:
        >
        > Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control at
        > Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the
        > battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of cannon)
        > while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures, and
        > took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were spectators
        > trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade between the
        > two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's battle,
        > there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and
        > O'Kelley's "Hessians."
        >
        >
        > Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my mind, it
        > presented a large safety and liability hazard.
        >
        > Thoughts?
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Dan Gracia
        Yes, that s exactly what was going on. There were two trails commonly used by bike riders at the County park right before you got to the gates to the
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 16, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Yes, that's exactly what was going on. There were two trails commonly used
          by bike riders at the County park right before you got to the gates to the
          battlefield. These two trails branched off into more trails as you got into
          the woods. We used these trails to stage for the all the battle scenarios
          that took place in the woods. The wood's battles took place on, above, and
          below the trails. They of course paid absolutely no attention to use
          telling them not to come up there. If the park had blocked off at least the
          two trails leaving the main road before the gates, it would have stopped
          most of it. We haven't had the problem in previous years.

          That "brigade" of modern civilians came over the crest of the hill like they
          were intent on performing a flanking maneuver. I have no idea how they got
          to that point, but they really didn't want to leave either.

          YMHS,
          Dan


          On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 4:37 AM, Fred <lucas.fred@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes?
          >
          > Either way yes that would be a safety issue...
          >
          > Fred Lucas
          >
          >
          > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, kg4zoa <kg4zoa@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control
          > at
          > > Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the
          >
          > > battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of
          > cannon)
          > > while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures,
          > and
          > > took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were
          > spectators
          > > trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade
          > between the
          > > two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's
          > battle,
          > > there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and
          > > O'Kelley's "Hessians."
          > >
          > >
          > > Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my
          > mind, it
          > > presented a large safety and liability hazard.
          > >
          > > Thoughts?
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
          >
          >



          --
          Dan Gracia
          Virginia 7th Regiment
          Rifle company
          and
          Capt. John Warner's Company
          Green Mountain Rangers


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael Grillo
          That s what happens when you have a important historical site and the Parks decide oh lets make bike trails and jogging paths etc for the public that don t
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 16, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            That's what happens when you have a important historical site and the Parks
            decide oh lets make bike trails and jogging paths etc for the public that don't
            care squat about this nations history overrun it. It's been my observation with
            Valley Forge too. These sites the day of a anniversary battle should close
            access to these bike and jogging and dog run what have you trails It cheapens
            the memory of the significance of the site.



            ________________________________
            From: Fred <lucas.fred@...>
            To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 4:37:52 AM
            Subject: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford


            Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes?

            Either way yes that would be a safety issue...

            Fred Lucas

            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, kg4zoa <kg4zoa@...> wrote:
            >
            > Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control at
            > Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the
            > battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of cannon)
            > while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures, and
            > took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were spectators
            >
            > trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade between the
            >
            > two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's battle,

            > there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and
            > O'Kelley's "Hessians."
            >
            >
            > Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my mind, it
            >
            > presented a large safety and liability hazard.
            >
            > Thoughts?
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • James Stewart
            In today’s world, we need to consider the more a site is used, the more likely the politicians will keep the funding coming to help keep it open. Yes it is
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 16, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              In today’s world, we need to consider the more a site is used, the more likely the politicians will keep the funding coming to help keep it open. Yes it is hard to try to show history to a group of people in spandex jogging or riding bicycles but maybe they might find an interest in what we are trying to do and gain a new respect for the site.

              Thank you again...
              Yr. Most Humble, Devoted and Obedient Servant, & c., ...
              Peace,
              James
              Ye Olde 18th C Signboard Carver
              250 Years behind the Times – Carving Reflections of Our Colonial and Celtic Heritage
              Indentured to my Master for God only knows how long...
              Woods Unlimited by James Stewart
              18 Scenic Circle
              Rochester, New York 14624-1008
              585-594-9663
              <http://www.woodsunltd.com/> www.woodsunltd.com
              <mailto:james@...> james@...



              From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Grillo
              Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:09 AM
              To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford


              That's what happens when you have a important historical site and the Parks
              decide oh lets make bike trails and jogging paths etc for the public that don't
              care squat about this nations history overrun it. It's been my observation with
              Valley Forge too. These sites the day of a anniversary battle should close
              access to these bike and jogging and dog run what have you trails It cheapens
              the memory of the significance of the site.

              ________________________________
              From: Fred <lucas.fred@... <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> >
              To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 4:37:52 AM
              Subject: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford

              Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes?

              Either way yes that would be a safety issue...

              Fred Lucas

              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , kg4zoa <kg4zoa@...> wrote:
              >
              > Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control at
              > Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the
              > battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of cannon)
              > while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures, and
              > took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were spectators
              >
              > trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade between the
              >
              > two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's battle,

              > there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and
              > O'Kelley's "Hessians."
              >
              >
              > Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my mind, it
              >
              > presented a large safety and liability hazard.
              >
              > Thoughts?
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Woolsey, David
              And maybe when one of these touristas gets injured while unsafely moving through a site during a living history demonstration, the site will be closed
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 16, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                And maybe when one of these touristas gets injured while unsafely moving through a site during a living history demonstration, the site will be closed permanently?

                Actually the more a site is used without charging admission the more likely it is to be seen by politicians as a liability, a drain on the pool of taxes. Are daily joggers and bikers paying for those trails when they use them?
                Add an accident and suddenly that site costs waaaay more than the politicians like, and they will see the problem as the living history, not the joggers.

                Invariably there are plenty of bike and jogging trails in most areas that have historic sites coupled with a high enough population to justify bike and jogging trails. The trails added at such sites merely ad a small amount to the community, aggregate whole.

                The problem is the mindset of the government that expects the word "park" to always mean a bike trail, 2 tennis courts, 2 basketball courts, 2 softball fields or a pair of soccer fields, and a pair of picnic shelters..., plus ample parking and maybe a dog-park. For some reason any area without these features is viewed as incomplete. It's not a budget thing; it's ignorance (imho).

                YOHS

                Dave Woolsey

                ________________________________

                From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
                To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wed Mar 16 09:19:14 2011
                Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford




                In today’s world, we need to consider the more a site is used, the more likely the politicians will keep the funding coming to help keep it open. Yes it is hard to try to show history to a group of people in spandex jogging or riding bicycles but maybe they might find an interest in what we are trying to do and gain a new respect for the site.

                Thank you again...
                Yr. Most Humble, Devoted and Obedient Servant, & c., ...
                Peace,
                James
                Ye Olde 18th C Signboard Carver
                250 Years behind the Times – Carving Reflections of Our Colonial and Celtic Heritage
                Indentured to my Master for God only knows how long...
                Woods Unlimited by James Stewart
                18 Scenic Circle
                Rochester, New York 14624-1008
                585-594-9663
                <http://www.woodsunltd.com/> www.woodsunltd.com
                <mailto:james@... <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> > james@... <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com>



                From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Michael Grillo
                Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:09 AM
                To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford


                That's what happens when you have a important historical site and the Parks
                decide oh lets make bike trails and jogging paths etc for the public that don't
                care squat about this nations history overrun it. It's been my observation with
                Valley Forge too. These sites the day of a anniversary battle should close
                access to these bike and jogging and dog run what have you trails It cheapens
                the memory of the significance of the site.

                ________________________________
                From: Fred <lucas.fred@... <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> >
                To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 4:37:52 AM
                Subject: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford

                Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes?

                Either way yes that would be a safety issue...

                Fred Lucas

                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , kg4zoa <kg4zoa@...> wrote:
                >
                > Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control at
                > Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the
                > battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of cannon)
                > while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures, and
                > took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were spectators
                >
                > trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade between the
                >
                > two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's battle,

                > there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and
                > O'Kelley's "Hessians."
                >
                >
                > Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my mind, it
                >
                > presented a large safety and liability hazard.
                >
                > Thoughts?
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • James Stewart
                Maybe you need to put forth a set of guideline for the demonstrations (events) that make sure the Publick isn’t injured. You can’t assume they will have
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 16, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  Maybe you need to put forth a set of guideline for the demonstrations (events) that make sure the Publick isn’t injured. You can’t assume they will have the common sense to stay back.
                  An example, I saw at the 250th at Fort Ticonderoga where the rope that was put up to keep the Publick back was breached by the Publick, because there were no signs or guards keeping them out of the area. They were within 10 feet of the cannons being fired over their heads. That was probably the worst thing I have ever seen. It was luck that God brought the rain storm and they retreated to the tree line.

                  We need to make sure every precaution is taken. I put away my tray of carving tools every time I move away from my carving table so they won’t grab one to see how sharp they are.
                  YMHOS,
                  James

                  From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Woolsey, David
                  Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:50 AM
                  To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford


                  And maybe when one of these touristas gets injured while unsafely moving through a site during a living history demonstration, the site will be closed permanently?

                  Actually the more a site is used without charging admission the more likely it is to be seen by politicians as a liability, a drain on the pool of taxes. Are daily joggers and bikers paying for those trails when they use them?
                  Add an accident and suddenly that site costs waaaay more than the politicians like, and they will see the problem as the living history, not the joggers.

                  Invariably there are plenty of bike and jogging trails in most areas that have historic sites coupled with a high enough population to justify bike and jogging trails. The trails added at such sites merely ad a small amount to the community, aggregate whole.

                  The problem is the mindset of the government that expects the word "park" to always mean a bike trail, 2 tennis courts, 2 basketball courts, 2 softball fields or a pair of soccer fields, and a pair of picnic shelters..., plus ample parking and maybe a dog-park. For some reason any area without these features is viewed as incomplete. It's not a budget thing; it's ignorance (imho).

                  YOHS

                  Dave Woolsey

                  ________________________________

                  From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> >
                  To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> >
                  Sent: Wed Mar 16 09:19:14 2011
                  Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford




                  In today’s world, we need to consider the more a site is used, the more likely the politicians will keep the funding coming to help keep it open. Yes it is hard to try to show history to a group of people in spandex jogging or riding bicycles but maybe they might find an interest in what we are trying to do and gain a new respect for the site.

                  Thank you again...
                  Yr. Most Humble, Devoted and Obedient Servant, & c., ...
                  Peace,
                  James
                  Ye Olde 18th C Signboard Carver
                  250 Years behind the Times – Carving Reflections of Our Colonial and Celtic Heritage
                  Indentured to my Master for God only knows how long...
                  Woods Unlimited by James Stewart
                  18 Scenic Circle
                  Rochester, New York 14624-1008
                  585-594-9663
                  <http://www.woodsunltd.com/> www.woodsunltd.com
                  <mailto:james@... <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> > james@... <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com>



                  From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Michael Grillo
                  Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:09 AM
                  To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford


                  That's what happens when you have a important historical site and the Parks
                  decide oh lets make bike trails and jogging paths etc for the public that don't
                  care squat about this nations history overrun it. It's been my observation with
                  Valley Forge too. These sites the day of a anniversary battle should close
                  access to these bike and jogging and dog run what have you trails It cheapens
                  the memory of the significance of the site.

                  ________________________________
                  From: Fred <lucas.fred@... <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> >
                  To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 4:37:52 AM
                  Subject: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford

                  Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes?

                  Either way yes that would be a safety issue...

                  Fred Lucas

                  --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , kg4zoa <kg4zoa@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control at
                  > Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the
                  > battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of cannon)
                  > while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures, and
                  > took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were spectators
                  >
                  > trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade between the
                  >
                  > two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's battle,

                  > there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and
                  > O'Kelley's "Hessians."
                  >
                  >
                  > Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my mind, it
                  >
                  > presented a large safety and liability hazard.
                  >
                  > Thoughts?
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Alexis Dekeyser
                  Folks this bike issue has been there for many years, this is not the first time it has happened. Almost every year that I have been there the unit I was with
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 16, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Folks this bike issue has been there for many years, this is not the first time it has happened. Almost every year that I have been there the unit I was with was in the woods earlier than most. And every year I got or someone with me got to be the bad guy and tell them they need to move on. This is something I took up with Park management several years ago when I helped out with the British camp. The response I got was “well we post that the trails are close between this time and that time on such and such a day.” They need to do a better job period, but how we got the message to them without them deciding this is too big of a hassle let’s just not do this event again.



                    As far as crowd control, on Saturday on our extreme right there was a guy standing there , that to this moment I have no clue if he was staff or not. Maybe they should mark the staff so we know and we know who to call if we have a problem. Several years ago at a NPS sit we were doing a night demo, with public. We roped everything off and blocked all the paths. But the one thing we did do was that all the Park Rangers were at the Officers meeting to know exactly what was going on and what they needed to do. We also place folks that were not participating with the Rangers to help out. I did not see ONE park employee at the Officers meeting, that makes zero sense to me.



                    But the other issue was the lack of porto johns , come on two and the block building that the toilets were stopped up. They did not even clean them Sunday at all. I do not mean to be gross but that is unsatisfactory period. It would be bad if we were the only ones that used them but the public used them also. Can you say health hazard. I understand budget cutbacks . But this is just not going to fly. The little staff that I had contact with made it very clear that they could care less if we were there and the toilet situation confirms that to me along with everything else.



                    There are solutions to all of this, but someone on our side needs to take this up with the city, as the park service does not care.



                    Mr. Alexis Dekeyser
                    jager1776@...



                    From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Stewart
                    Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:26 AM
                    To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford





                    Maybe you need to put forth a set of guideline for the demonstrations (events) that make sure the Publick isn’t injured. You can’t assume they will have the common sense to stay back.
                    An example, I saw at the 250th at Fort Ticonderoga where the rope that was put up to keep the Publick back was breached by the Publick, because there were no signs or guards keeping them out of the area. They were within 10 feet of the cannons being fired over their heads. That was probably the worst thing I have ever seen. It was luck that God brought the rain storm and they retreated to the tree line.

                    We need to make sure every precaution is taken. I put away my tray of carving tools every time I move away from my carving table so they won’t grab one to see how sharp they are.
                    YMHOS,
                    James

                    From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Woolsey, David
                    Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:50 AM
                    To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford


                    And maybe when one of these touristas gets injured while unsafely moving through a site during a living history demonstration, the site will be closed permanently?

                    Actually the more a site is used without charging admission the more likely it is to be seen by politicians as a liability, a drain on the pool of taxes. Are daily joggers and bikers paying for those trails when they use them?
                    Add an accident and suddenly that site costs waaaay more than the politicians like, and they will see the problem as the living history, not the joggers.

                    Invariably there are plenty of bike and jogging trails in most areas that have historic sites coupled with a high enough population to justify bike and jogging trails. The trails added at such sites merely ad a small amount to the community, aggregate whole.

                    The problem is the mindset of the government that expects the word "park" to always mean a bike trail, 2 tennis courts, 2 basketball courts, 2 softball fields or a pair of soccer fields, and a pair of picnic shelters..., plus ample parking and maybe a dog-park. For some reason any area without these features is viewed as incomplete. It's not a budget thing; it's ignorance (imho).

                    YOHS

                    Dave Woolsey

                    ________________________________

                    From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> >
                    To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> >
                    Sent: Wed Mar 16 09:19:14 2011
                    Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford

                    In today’s world, we need to consider the more a site is used, the more likely the politicians will keep the funding coming to help keep it open. Yes it is hard to try to show history to a group of people in spandex jogging or riding bicycles but maybe they might find an interest in what we are trying to do and gain a new respect for the site.

                    Thank you again...
                    Yr. Most Humble, Devoted and Obedient Servant, & c., ...
                    Peace,
                    James
                    Ye Olde 18th C Signboard Carver
                    250 Years behind the Times – Carving Reflections of Our Colonial and Celtic Heritage
                    Indentured to my Master for God only knows how long...
                    Woods Unlimited by James Stewart
                    18 Scenic Circle
                    Rochester, New York 14624-1008
                    585-594-9663
                    <http://www.woodsunltd.com/> www.woodsunltd.com
                    <mailto:james@... <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> > james@... <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com>

                    From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Michael Grillo
                    Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:09 AM
                    To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford

                    That's what happens when you have a important historical site and the Parks
                    decide oh lets make bike trails and jogging paths etc for the public that don't
                    care squat about this nations history overrun it. It's been my observation with
                    Valley Forge too. These sites the day of a anniversary battle should close
                    access to these bike and jogging and dog run what have you trails It cheapens
                    the memory of the significance of the site.

                    ________________________________
                    From: Fred <lucas.fred@... <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> >
                    To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 4:37:52 AM
                    Subject: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford

                    Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes?

                    Either way yes that would be a safety issue...

                    Fred Lucas

                    --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , kg4zoa <kg4zoa@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control at
                    > Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the
                    > battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of cannon)
                    > while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures, and
                    > took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were spectators
                    >
                    > trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade between the
                    >
                    > two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's battle,

                    > there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and
                    > O'Kelley's "Hessians."
                    >
                    >
                    > Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my mind, it
                    >
                    > presented a large safety and liability hazard.
                    >
                    > Thoughts?
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Walter McIntyre
                    All, We need to stop the battle when that happens and tell the crowd what s happening. Maybe their booing will get them to move. Walter M. McIntyre District
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 16, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      All,

                      We need to stop the battle when that happens and tell the crowd what's happening. Maybe their booing will get them to move.

                      Walter M. McIntyre
                      District Sales Manager
                      American Republic Insurance Co.
                      (704) 985-5426
                      Primary email: wltrmcintyre@...
                      Please visit my personal website or forward it to a family member or friend that would like a quote:
                      www.americanrepublic.com/waltermcintyre

                      Member: RBN Business Referral Network

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Alexis Dekeyser
                      To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:47 AM
                      Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford



                      Folks this bike issue has been there for many years, this is not the first time it has happened. Almost every year that I have been there the unit I was with was in the woods earlier than most. And every year I got or someone with me got to be the bad guy and tell them they need to move on. This is something I took up with Park management several years ago when I helped out with the British camp. The response I got was “well we post that the trails are close between this time and that time on such and such a day.” They need to do a better job period, but how we got the message to them without them deciding this is too big of a hassle let’s just not do this event again.

                      As far as crowd control, on Saturday on our extreme right there was a guy standing there , that to this moment I have no clue if he was staff or not. Maybe they should mark the staff so we know and we know who to call if we have a problem. Several years ago at a NPS sit we were doing a night demo, with public. We roped everything off and blocked all the paths. But the one thing we did do was that all the Park Rangers were at the Officers meeting to know exactly what was going on and what they needed to do. We also place folks that were not participating with the Rangers to help out. I did not see ONE park employee at the Officers meeting, that makes zero sense to me.

                      But the other issue was the lack of porto johns , come on two and the block building that the toilets were stopped up. They did not even clean them Sunday at all. I do not mean to be gross but that is unsatisfactory period. It would be bad if we were the only ones that used them but the public used them also. Can you say health hazard. I understand budget cutbacks . But this is just not going to fly. The little staff that I had contact with made it very clear that they could care less if we were there and the toilet situation confirms that to me along with everything else.

                      There are solutions to all of this, but someone on our side needs to take this up with the city, as the park service does not care.

                      Mr. Alexis Dekeyser
                      jager1776@...

                      From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Stewart
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:26 AM
                      To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford

                      Maybe you need to put forth a set of guideline for the demonstrations (events) that make sure the Publick isn’t injured. You can’t assume they will have the common sense to stay back.
                      An example, I saw at the 250th at Fort Ticonderoga where the rope that was put up to keep the Publick back was breached by the Publick, because there were no signs or guards keeping them out of the area. They were within 10 feet of the cannons being fired over their heads. That was probably the worst thing I have ever seen. It was luck that God brought the rain storm and they retreated to the tree line.

                      We need to make sure every precaution is taken. I put away my tray of carving tools every time I move away from my carving table so they won’t grab one to see how sharp they are.
                      YMHOS,
                      James

                      From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Woolsey, David
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:50 AM
                      To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford

                      And maybe when one of these touristas gets injured while unsafely moving through a site during a living history demonstration, the site will be closed permanently?

                      Actually the more a site is used without charging admission the more likely it is to be seen by politicians as a liability, a drain on the pool of taxes. Are daily joggers and bikers paying for those trails when they use them?
                      Add an accident and suddenly that site costs waaaay more than the politicians like, and they will see the problem as the living history, not the joggers.

                      Invariably there are plenty of bike and jogging trails in most areas that have historic sites coupled with a high enough population to justify bike and jogging trails. The trails added at such sites merely ad a small amount to the community, aggregate whole.

                      The problem is the mindset of the government that expects the word "park" to always mean a bike trail, 2 tennis courts, 2 basketball courts, 2 softball fields or a pair of soccer fields, and a pair of picnic shelters..., plus ample parking and maybe a dog-park. For some reason any area without these features is viewed as incomplete. It's not a budget thing; it's ignorance (imho).

                      YOHS

                      Dave Woolsey

                      ________________________________

                      From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> >
                      To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> >
                      Sent: Wed Mar 16 09:19:14 2011
                      Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford

                      In today’s world, we need to consider the more a site is used, the more likely the politicians will keep the funding coming to help keep it open. Yes it is hard to try to show history to a group of people in spandex jogging or riding bicycles but maybe they might find an interest in what we are trying to do and gain a new respect for the site.

                      Thank you again...
                      Yr. Most Humble, Devoted and Obedient Servant, & c., ...
                      Peace,
                      James
                      Ye Olde 18th C Signboard Carver
                      250 Years behind the Times – Carving Reflections of Our Colonial and Celtic Heritage
                      Indentured to my Master for God only knows how long...
                      Woods Unlimited by James Stewart
                      18 Scenic Circle
                      Rochester, New York 14624-1008
                      585-594-9663
                      <http://www.woodsunltd.com/> www.woodsunltd.com
                      <mailto:james@... <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> > james@... <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com>

                      From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Michael Grillo
                      Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:09 AM
                      To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford

                      That's what happens when you have a important historical site and the Parks
                      decide oh lets make bike trails and jogging paths etc for the public that don't
                      care squat about this nations history overrun it. It's been my observation with
                      Valley Forge too. These sites the day of a anniversary battle should close
                      access to these bike and jogging and dog run what have you trails It cheapens
                      the memory of the significance of the site.

                      ________________________________
                      From: Fred <lucas.fred@... <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> >
                      To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 4:37:52 AM
                      Subject: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford

                      Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes?

                      Either way yes that would be a safety issue...

                      Fred Lucas

                      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , kg4zoa <kg4zoa@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control at
                      > Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the
                      > battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of cannon)
                      > while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures, and
                      > took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were spectators
                      >
                      > trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade between the
                      >
                      > two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's battle,

                      > there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and
                      > O'Kelley's "Hessians."
                      >
                      >
                      > Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my mind, it
                      >
                      > presented a large safety and liability hazard.
                      >
                      > Thoughts?
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Warren Peters
                      Look people want entertainment and they want the best seat in the house. Every reenactment that I have gone to has had a provost guard whose job is liaison
                      Message 10 of 18 , Mar 16, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Look people want entertainment and they want the best seat in the house. Every reenactment that I have gone to has had a "provost guard" whose job is liaison with the security provided by the host,crowd control,even reenacted Battlefields are dangerous places, and some small scale PR with the crowd observing ,answering quick questions and the like, if this isn't done then there can be an accident and the litigious public can sue you and your hosts and make it so that you won't be invited back.  That is the only way that I have found to control;l crowds at one of these events. 
                         
                        Always remember the needs of the many out weight the wants of the few.
                        From: Dan Gracia <twisted1in66@...>
                        To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:51 AM
                        Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford

                        Yes, that's exactly what was going on. There were two trails commonly used
                        by bike riders at the County park right before you got to the gates to the
                        battlefield.  These two trails branched off into more trails as you got into
                        the woods.  We used these trails to stage for the all the battle scenarios
                        that took place in the woods.  The wood's battles took place on, above, and
                        below the trails.  They of course paid absolutely no attention to use
                        telling them not to come up there.  If the park had blocked off at least the
                        two trails leaving the main road before the gates, it would have stopped
                        most of it. We haven't had the problem in previous years.

                        That "brigade" of modern civilians came over the crest of the hill like they
                        were intent on performing a flanking maneuver.  I have no idea how they got
                        to that point, but they really didn't want to leave either.

                        YMHS,
                            Dan


                        On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 4:37 AM, Fred <lucas.fred@...> wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes?
                        >
                        > Either way yes that would be a safety issue...
                        >
                        > Fred Lucas
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, kg4zoa <kg4zoa@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control
                        > at
                        > > Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the
                        >
                        > > battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of
                        > cannon)
                        > > while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures,
                        > and
                        > > took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were
                        > spectators
                        > > trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade
                        > between the
                        > > two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's
                        > battle,
                        > > there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and
                        > > O'Kelley's "Hessians."
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my
                        > mind, it
                        > > presented a large safety and liability hazard.
                        > >
                        > > Thoughts?
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >

                        >



                        --
                        Dan Gracia
                        Virginia 7th Regiment
                        Rifle company
                        and
                        Capt. John Warner's Company
                        Green Mountain Rangers


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        ------------------------------------

                        To subscribe to Revlist, please go to the home page at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Revlist/ and click "Join This Group!"

                        TO UNSUBSCRIBE: please send a message to Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.Yahoo! Groups Links






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • johnjogden@gmail.com
                        All,      I have been to a number of events in set in various periods where someone with a camera tries to get an action shot of a volley being
                        Message 11 of 18 , Mar 16, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          All,

                               I have been to a number of events in set in various periods where someone with a camera tries to get an action shot of a volley being fired: the problem is always that they try to stand directly in front of the formation as if we were a firing squad and the photographer was the target...



                          -- Sent from my Palm Pre
                          On Mar 16, 2011 11:37 AM, Warren Peters <redgriffin728@...> wrote:


                           










                          Look people want entertainment and they want the best seat in the house. Every reenactment that I have gone to has had a "provost guard" whose job is liaison with the security provided by the host,crowd control,even reenacted Battlefields are dangerous places, and some small scale PR with the crowd observing ,answering quick questions and the like, if this isn't done then there can be an accident and the litigious public can sue you and your hosts and make it so that you won't be invited back.  That is the only way that I have found to control;l crowds at one of these events. 

                           

                          Always remember the needs of the many out weight the wants of the few.

                          From: Dan Gracia <twisted1in66@...>

                          To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com

                          Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:51 AM

                          Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford



                          Yes, that's exactly what was going on. There were two trails commonly used

                          by bike riders at the County park right before you got to the gates to the

                          battlefield.  These two trails branched off into more trails as you got into

                          the woods.  We used these trails to stage for the all the battle scenarios

                          that took place in the woods.  The wood's battles took place on, above, and

                          below the trails.  They of course paid absolutely no attention to use

                          telling them not to come up there.  If the park had blocked off at least the

                          two trails leaving the main road before the gates, it would have stopped

                          most of it. We haven't had the problem in previous years.



                          That "brigade" of modern civilians came over the crest of the hill like they

                          were intent on performing a flanking maneuver.  I have no idea how they got

                          to that point, but they really didn't want to leave either.



                          YMHS,

                              Dan



                          On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 4:37 AM, Fred <lucas.fred@...> wrote:



                          >

                          >

                          > Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes?

                          >

                          > Either way yes that would be a safety issue...

                          >

                          > Fred Lucas

                          >

                          >

                          > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, kg4zoa <kg4zoa@...> wrote:

                          > >

                          > > Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control

                          > at

                          > > Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the

                          >

                          > > battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of

                          > cannon)

                          > > while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures,

                          > and

                          > > took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were

                          > spectators

                          > > trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade

                          > between the

                          > > two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's

                          > battle,

                          > > there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and

                          > > O'Kelley's "Hessians."

                          > >

                          > >

                          > > Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my

                          > mind, it

                          > > presented a large safety and liability hazard.

                          > >

                          > > Thoughts?

                          > >

                          > >

                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          > >

                          >



                          >



                          --

                          Dan Gracia

                          Virginia 7th Regiment

                          Rifle company

                          and

                          Capt. John Warner's Company

                          Green Mountain Rangers



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          ------------------------------------



                          To subscribe to Revlist, please go to the home page at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Revlist/ and click "Join This Group!"



                          TO UNSUBSCRIBE: please send a message to Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                          with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.Yahoo! Groups Links



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




























                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • ebolton123
                          Mike, Valley Forge is nothing but a place for the Philly lawyers to let their dogs relieve themselves. That place is a real dump (pun appropriate)now. The
                          Message 12 of 18 , Mar 16, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Mike,
                            Valley Forge is nothing but a place for the Philly lawyers to let their dogs relieve themselves. That place is a real dump (pun appropriate)now. The visitors center has squirreled away most of the artifacts they used to have on display, the "bookstore" is a plastic sword and paper hat paradise, the park is for frisbee players and dog walkers, and the huts are so deteriorated that one is affraid to lean on one of them for fear that they will collapse.
                            It's shameful!
                            Cheers,
                            Bob Bolton
                            Pa. Associators




                            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Michael Grillo <michaeljtgrillo@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > That's what happens when you have a important historical site and the Parks
                            > decide oh lets make bike trails and jogging paths etc for the public that don't
                            > care squat about this nations history overrun it. It's been my observation with
                            > Valley Forge too. These sites the day of a anniversary battle should close
                            > access to these bike and jogging and dog run what have you trails It cheapens
                            > the memory of the significance of the site.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: Fred <lucas.fred@...>
                            > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 4:37:52 AM
                            > Subject: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford
                            >
                            >
                            > Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes?
                            >
                            > Either way yes that would be a safety issue...
                            >
                            > Fred Lucas
                            >
                            > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, kg4zoa <kg4zoa@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control at
                            > > Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the
                            > > battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of cannon)
                            > > while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures, and
                            > > took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were spectators
                            > >
                            > > trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade between the
                            > >
                            > > two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's battle,
                            >
                            > > there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and
                            > > O'Kelley's "Hessians."
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my mind, it
                            > >
                            > > presented a large safety and liability hazard.
                            > >
                            > > Thoughts?
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Sherri Rapp
                            For those who are unaware, I think we need to make a clear distinction between Guilford Courthouse NMP and the City of Greensboro Parks & Rec. The battles and
                            Message 13 of 18 , Mar 17, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              For those who are unaware, I think we need to make a clear distinction between Guilford Courthouse NMP and the City of Greensboro Parks & Rec. The battles and sutlers and much of the camping took place at Country Park, which is under the control of the City of Greensboro. The lack of crowd control and adequate necessaries can be directed at them, and rightly so. The City of Greensboro staff and volunteers assisting with the event indeed ought to be easily recognizable as such at all times, both for the spectators and the participants. Guilford Courthouse NMP and the Park Rangers and Park volunteers have no control over how things are run at County Park. I just wanted to clarify that.


                              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Alexis Dekeyser" <jager1776@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Folks this bike issue has been there for many years, this is not the first time it has happened. Almost every year that I have been there the unit I was with was in the woods earlier than most. And every year I got or someone with me got to be the bad guy and tell them they need to move on. This is something I took up with Park management several years ago when I helped out with the British camp. The response I got was “well we post that the trails are close between this time and that time on such and such a day.” They need to do a better job period, but how we got the message to them without them deciding this is too big of a hassle let’s just not do this event again.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > As far as crowd control, on Saturday on our extreme right there was a guy standing there , that to this moment I have no clue if he was staff or not. Maybe they should mark the staff so we know and we know who to call if we have a problem. Several years ago at a NPS sit we were doing a night demo, with public. We roped everything off and blocked all the paths. But the one thing we did do was that all the Park Rangers were at the Officers meeting to know exactly what was going on and what they needed to do. We also place folks that were not participating with the Rangers to help out. I did not see ONE park employee at the Officers meeting, that makes zero sense to me.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > But the other issue was the lack of porto johns , come on two and the block building that the toilets were stopped up. They did not even clean them Sunday at all. I do not mean to be gross but that is unsatisfactory period. It would be bad if we were the only ones that used them but the public used them also. Can you say health hazard. I understand budget cutbacks . But this is just not going to fly. The little staff that I had contact with made it very clear that they could care less if we were there and the toilet situation confirms that to me along with everything else.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > There are solutions to all of this, but someone on our side needs to take this up with the city, as the park service does not care.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Mr. Alexis Dekeyser
                              > jager1776@...
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Stewart
                              > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:26 AM
                              > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Maybe you need to put forth a set of guideline for the demonstrations (events) that make sure the Publick isn’t injured. You can’t assume they will have the common sense to stay back.
                              > An example, I saw at the 250th at Fort Ticonderoga where the rope that was put up to keep the Publick back was breached by the Publick, because there were no signs or guards keeping them out of the area. They were within 10 feet of the cannons being fired over their heads. That was probably the worst thing I have ever seen. It was luck that God brought the rain storm and they retreated to the tree line.
                              >
                              > We need to make sure every precaution is taken. I put away my tray of carving tools every time I move away from my carving table so they won’t grab one to see how sharp they are.
                              > YMHOS,
                              > James
                              >
                              > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Woolsey, David
                              > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:50 AM
                              > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford
                              >
                              >
                              > And maybe when one of these touristas gets injured while unsafely moving through a site during a living history demonstration, the site will be closed permanently?
                              >
                              > Actually the more a site is used without charging admission the more likely it is to be seen by politicians as a liability, a drain on the pool of taxes. Are daily joggers and bikers paying for those trails when they use them?
                              > Add an accident and suddenly that site costs waaaay more than the politicians like, and they will see the problem as the living history, not the joggers.
                              >
                              > Invariably there are plenty of bike and jogging trails in most areas that have historic sites coupled with a high enough population to justify bike and jogging trails. The trails added at such sites merely ad a small amount to the community, aggregate whole.
                              >
                              > The problem is the mindset of the government that expects the word "park" to always mean a bike trail, 2 tennis courts, 2 basketball courts, 2 softball fields or a pair of soccer fields, and a pair of picnic shelters..., plus ample parking and maybe a dog-park. For some reason any area without these features is viewed as incomplete. It's not a budget thing; it's ignorance (imho).
                              >
                              > YOHS
                              >
                              > Dave Woolsey
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              >
                              > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> >
                              > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> >
                              > Sent: Wed Mar 16 09:19:14 2011
                              > Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford
                              >
                              > In today’s world, we need to consider the more a site is used, the more likely the politicians will keep the funding coming to help keep it open. Yes it is hard to try to show history to a group of people in spandex jogging or riding bicycles but maybe they might find an interest in what we are trying to do and gain a new respect for the site.
                              >
                              > Thank you again...
                              > Yr. Most Humble, Devoted and Obedient Servant, & c., ...
                              > Peace,
                              > James
                              > Ye Olde 18th C Signboard Carver
                              > 250 Years behind the Times â€" Carving Reflections of Our Colonial and Celtic Heritage
                              > Indentured to my Master for God only knows how long...
                              > Woods Unlimited by James Stewart
                              > 18 Scenic Circle
                              > Rochester, New York 14624-1008
                              > 585-594-9663
                              > <http://www.woodsunltd.com/> www.woodsunltd.com
                              > <mailto:james@... <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> > james@... <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com> <mailto:james%40woodsunltd.com>
                              >
                              > From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Michael Grillo
                              > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:09 AM
                              > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford
                              >
                              > That's what happens when you have a important historical site and the Parks
                              > decide oh lets make bike trails and jogging paths etc for the public that don't
                              > care squat about this nations history overrun it. It's been my observation with
                              > Valley Forge too. These sites the day of a anniversary battle should close
                              > access to these bike and jogging and dog run what have you trails It cheapens
                              > the memory of the significance of the site.
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Fred <lucas.fred@... <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> <mailto:lucas.fred%40gmail.com> >
                              > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Wed, March 16, 2011 4:37:52 AM
                              > Subject: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford
                              >
                              > Shades of Altamont, or are we talking folks riding mountain bikes?
                              >
                              > Either way yes that would be a safety issue...
                              >
                              > Fred Lucas
                              >
                              > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , kg4zoa <kg4zoa@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Was anyone else extremely disappointed/concerned with the crowd control at
                              > > Guilford Courthouse? There were bikers going through the woods during the
                              > > battle, and in at least two cases between the lines (and in front of cannon)
                              > > while engaged and firing! Others stopped in the middle to take pictures, and
                              > > took a lot of increasingly un-gentle persuading to move. There were spectators
                              > >
                              > > trickling into the woods all weekend, including a veritable brigade between the
                              > >
                              > > two scenarios on Sunday. Also, during the closing minutes of Sunday's battle,
                              >
                              > > there were two kids in civvies in the trees between the Whig militia and
                              > > O'Kelley's "Hessians."
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Not only did this detract substantially from the experience, but in my mind, it
                              > >
                              > > presented a large safety and liability hazard.
                              > >
                              > > Thoughts?
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Dan Gracia
                              Hi John, Absolutely having reenactor and crowd interaction prior to the start of the action is an efficient and effective people to keep the crowds in the
                              Message 14 of 18 , Mar 17, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi John,

                                Absolutely having reenactor and crowd interaction prior to the start of the
                                action is an efficient and effective people to keep the crowds in the right
                                place and interested in what's going on. It draws them into the event.
                                HOWEVER....the bikers in their bright colored spandex, garish helmets, and
                                sunglasses had nothing to do with the crowd that was there to observe the
                                reenactment and were literally hundreds of yards away from the designated
                                viewing area.

                                They didn't care that there was a reenactment taking place; that people had
                                driven hours to participate; and that hundreds of people had come to see
                                it. All the bikers did was turn up their i-Pods and stick out like a sore
                                thumb as they biked their way across and around the battleground in a big
                                loop passing through hundreds of authentically dressed and equipped
                                reenactors as they rode their bikes around the hill in clear and perfect
                                view of the crowd that was trying to observe a battle reenactment. Pretty
                                hard to get the feel of what went on in 1781 while you have brightly dressed
                                spandex-covered bikers traveling around like a PacMan game through ranks of
                                reenactors and canon.

                                Simply posting a couple of park employees at the two entrances to the trails
                                that were supposedly "closed" would have stopped the problem. But that was
                                not done. The trails were not roped off, posted as "closed", or manned by
                                park personnel. Its too bad a few inconsiderate and rude bikers can ruin it
                                for so many people over such a short period of time. Perhaps we should post
                                our own guards at the trailhead next year, presuming we return next year.

                                YMHS,
                                Dan

                                --
                                Dan Gracia
                                Virginia 7th Regiment
                                Rifle company
                                and
                                Capt. John Warner's Company
                                Green Mountain Rangers




                                On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:05 PM, johnjogden@... <johnjogden@...
                                > wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > All,
                                >
                                >      I have been to a number of events in set in various
                                > periods where someone with a camera tries to get an action shot of a volley
                                > being fired: the problem is always that they try to stand directly in front
                                > of the formation as if we were a firing squad and the photographer was the
                                > target...
                                >
                                > -- Sent from my Palm Pre
                                > On Mar 16, 2011 11:37 AM, Warren Peters <redgriffin728@...>
                                > wrote:
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                > Look people want entertainment and they want the best seat in the house.
                                > Every reenactment that I have gone to has had a "provost guard" whose job
                                > is liaison with the security provided by the host,crowd
                                > control,even reenacted Battlefields are dangerous places, and some
                                > small scale PR with the crowd observing ,answering quick questions and the
                                > like, if this isn't done then there can be an accident and the litigious
                                > public can sue you and your hosts and make it so that you won't be invited
                                > back.  That is the only way that I have found to control;l crowds at
                                > one of these events. 
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >
                                > Always remember the needs of the many out weight the wants of the few.
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • BrandtH605@aol.com
                                There is always something at Guilford Courthouse. One year the battlefield had the equivalent of a HazMat site right behind the American lines. Another year a
                                Message 15 of 18 , Mar 17, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  There is always something at Guilford Courthouse. One year the battlefield had the equivalent of a HazMat site right behind the American lines. Another year a nut was loose with some kind of weapon in the camps and the cops came while we were all on lockdown with a cop car shouting to stay where you are over a megaphone (scary for visitors AND re-enactors!) One year the camp was surrounding a lake which had a trail around it and hikers and bikers were in plain view the WHOLE weekend. At the 225th there were telephone poles everywhere and a big cherry-picker hovering over the battle taking pictures (although kudos on the redoubt). I have been going down there since the Bicentennial and the sites are always poor and some freakish thing or farby intrusion is the norm, not the exception. Sorry but that's the facts. Generally not worth the drive in my opinion


                                  Brandt





                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Dan Gracia <twisted1in66@...>
                                  To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 7:45 am
                                  Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford





                                  Hi John,

                                  Absolutely having reenactor and crowd interaction prior to the start of the
                                  action is an efficient and effective people to keep the crowds in the right
                                  place and interested in what's going on. It draws them into the event.
                                  HOWEVER....the bikers in their bright colored spandex, garish helmets, and
                                  sunglasses had nothing to do with the crowd that was there to observe the
                                  reenactment and were literally hundreds of yards away from the designated
                                  viewing area.

                                  They didn't care that there was a reenactment taking place; that people had
                                  driven hours to participate; and that hundreds of people had come to see
                                  it. All the bikers did was turn up their i-Pods and stick out like a sore
                                  thumb as they biked their way across and around the battleground in a big
                                  loop passing through hundreds of authentically dressed and equipped
                                  reenactors as they rode their bikes around the hill in clear and perfect
                                  view of the crowd that was trying to observe a battle reenactment. Pretty
                                  hard to get the feel of what went on in 1781 while you have brightly dressed
                                  spandex-covered bikers traveling around like a PacMan game through ranks of
                                  reenactors and canon.

                                  Simply posting a couple of park employees at the two entrances to the trails
                                  that were supposedly "closed" would have stopped the problem. But that was
                                  not done. The trails were not roped off, posted as "closed", or manned by
                                  park personnel. Its too bad a few inconsiderate and rude bikers can ruin it
                                  for so many people over such a short period of time. Perhaps we should post
                                  our own guards at the trailhead next year, presuming we return next year.

                                  YMHS,
                                  Dan

                                  --
                                  Dan Gracia
                                  Virginia 7th Regiment
                                  Rifle company
                                  and
                                  Capt. John Warner's Company
                                  Green Mountain Rangers

                                  On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:05 PM, johnjogden@... <johnjogden@...
                                  > wrote:

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > All,
                                  >
                                  > I have been to a number of events in set in various
                                  > periods where someone with a camera tries to get an action shot of a volley
                                  > being fired: the problem is always that they try to stand directly in front
                                  > of the formation as if we were a firing squad and the photographer was the
                                  > target...
                                  >
                                  > -- Sent from my Palm Pre
                                  > On Mar 16, 2011 11:37 AM, Warren Peters <redgriffin728@...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Look people want entertainment and they want the best seat in the house.
                                  > Every reenactment that I have gone to has had a "provost guard" whose job
                                  > is liaison with the security provided by the host,crowd
                                  > control,even reenacted Battlefields are dangerous places, and some
                                  > small scale PR with the crowd observing ,answering quick questions and the
                                  > like, if this isn't done then there can be an accident and the litigious
                                  > public can sue you and your hosts and make it so that you won't be invited
                                  > back. That is the only way that I have found to control;l crowds at
                                  > one of these events.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Always remember the needs of the many out weight the wants of the few.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • BrandtH605@aol.com
                                  PS they do have an outstanding book store there... ... From: brandth605@aol.com To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:29 am Subject: Re:
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Mar 17, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    PS they do have an outstanding book store there...





                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: brandth605@...
                                    To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 10:29 am
                                    Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford


                                    There is always something at Guilford Courthouse. One year the battlefield had the equivalent of a HazMat site right behind the American lines. Another year a nut was loose with some kind of weapon in the camps and the cops came while we were all on lockdown with a cop car shouting to stay where you are over a megaphone (scary for visitors AND re-enactors!) One year the camp was surrounding a lake which had a trail around it and hikers and bikers were in plain view the WHOLE weekend. At the 225th there were telephone poles everywhere and a big cherry-picker hovering over the battle taking pictures (although kudos on the redoubt). I have been going down there since the Bicentennial and the sites are always poor and some freakish thing or farby intrusion is the norm, not the exception. Sorry but that's the facts. Generally not worth the drive in my opinion


                                    Brandt





                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Dan Gracia <twisted1in66@...>
                                    To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thu, Mar 17, 2011 7:45 am
                                    Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Bikers at Guilford





                                    Hi John,

                                    Absolutely having reenactor and crowd interaction prior to the start of the
                                    action is an efficient and effective people to keep the crowds in the right
                                    place and interested in what's going on. It draws them into the event.
                                    HOWEVER....the bikers in their bright colored spandex, garish helmets, and
                                    sunglasses had nothing to do with the crowd that was there to observe the
                                    reenactment and were literally hundreds of yards away from the designated
                                    viewing area.

                                    They didn't care that there was a reenactment taking place; that people had
                                    driven hours to participate; and that hundreds of people had come to see
                                    it. All the bikers did was turn up their i-Pods and stick out like a sore
                                    thumb as they biked their way across and around the battleground in a big
                                    loop passing through hundreds of authentically dressed and equipped
                                    reenactors as they rode their bikes around the hill in clear and perfect
                                    view of the crowd that was trying to observe a battle reenactment. Pretty
                                    hard to get the feel of what went on in 1781 while you have brightly dressed
                                    spandex-covered bikers traveling around like a PacMan game through ranks of
                                    reenactors and canon.

                                    Simply posting a couple of park employees at the two entrances to the trails
                                    that were supposedly "closed" would have stopped the problem. But that was
                                    not done. The trails were not roped off, posted as "closed", or manned by
                                    park personnel. Its too bad a few inconsiderate and rude bikers can ruin it
                                    for so many people over such a short period of time. Perhaps we should post
                                    our own guards at the trailhead next year, presuming we return next year.

                                    YMHS,
                                    Dan

                                    --
                                    Dan Gracia
                                    Virginia 7th Regiment
                                    Rifle company
                                    and
                                    Capt. John Warner's Company
                                    Green Mountain Rangers

                                    On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:05 PM, johnjogden@... <johnjogden@...
                                    > wrote:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > All,
                                    >
                                    > I have been to a number of events in set in various
                                    > periods where someone with a camera tries to get an action shot of a volley
                                    > being fired: the problem is always that they try to stand directly in front
                                    > of the formation as if we were a firing squad and the photographer was the
                                    > target...
                                    >
                                    > -- Sent from my Palm Pre
                                    > On Mar 16, 2011 11:37 AM, Warren Peters <redgriffin728@...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Look people want entertainment and they want the best seat in the house.
                                    > Every reenactment that I have gone to has had a "provost guard" whose job
                                    > is liaison with the security provided by the host,crowd
                                    > control,even reenacted Battlefields are dangerous places, and some
                                    > small scale PR with the crowd observing ,answering quick questions and the
                                    > like, if this isn't done then there can be an accident and the litigious
                                    > public can sue you and your hosts and make it so that you won't be invited
                                    > back. That is the only way that I have found to control;l crowds at
                                    > one of these events.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Always remember the needs of the many out weight the wants of the few.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • umfspock87@cs.com
                                    Dear List, While I agree there are things at Guilford CH that could certainly be changed or improved, I want to say that as battles go, I think Guilford CH
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Mar 17, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Dear List,

                                      While I agree there are things at Guilford CH that could certainly be changed or improved, I want to say that as battles go, I think Guilford CH provides a great model for how things should be done (minus the crowd control which obviously could be improved) at many other events. I don't know what the battles this past weekend were like for the continental troops or the British troops, but the militia seemed to have a fantastic time, especially Sunday. And what made the battles that much more enjoyable for me was the realization that we were basically following the historical script (at least as best we could). I also really enjoy the fact that the event is held adjacent to the actual battlefield (which is indeed surrounded by the city of Greensboro). That means I get to do some good sightseeing around the very anniversary of the battle -- always a plus :)

                                      So I would say that I definitely think my six hour trip to Greensboro was well worth it and I will go again and again. And as this event appears to me to be one of the biggest annual events in the south, many others seem to share at least some of these sentiments. I, for one, would hate to see the event disappear.

                                      So thanks again to everyone associated with this event and I hope to see ya'll again next March.

                                      Mike Cecere 7th VA




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Dan Gracia
                                      Well Mike, as you know, Guilford Courthouse is the closest reenactment to me for the whole year, so I ll be there next year. We had great weather and I
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Mar 17, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Well Mike, as you know, Guilford Courthouse is the closest reenactment to me
                                        for the whole year, so I'll be there next year. We had great weather and I
                                        thought great battles. And man, can those horses close the distance fast
                                        when they are running at you! Guilford in 2006 was the first reenactment I
                                        participated in once I moved to Virginia (had done reenactments in and
                                        around Vermont before) and I always look forward to it. In my opinion the
                                        battles this last weekend were the best so far. I really would like to stop
                                        the bikers for the couple of hours needed, but let's not throw out the baby
                                        with the bathwater. Guilford CH is a must for me.

                                        YMHS,
                                        Dan

                                        --
                                        Dan Gracia
                                        Virginia 7th Regiment
                                        Rifle company
                                        and
                                        Capt. John Warner's Company
                                        Green Mountain Rangers




                                        On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:58 PM, <umfspock87@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Dear List,
                                        >
                                        > While I agree there are things at Guilford CH that could certainly be
                                        > changed or improved, I want to say that as battles go, I think Guilford CH
                                        > provides a great model for how things should be done (minus the crowd
                                        > control which obviously could be improved) at many other events. I don't
                                        > know what the battles this past weekend were like for the continental troops
                                        > or the British troops, but the militia seemed to have a fantastic time,
                                        > especially Sunday. And what made the battles that much more enjoyable for me
                                        > was the realization that we were basically following the historical script
                                        > (at least as best we could). I also really enjoy the fact that the event is
                                        > held adjacent to the actual battlefield (which is indeed surrounded by the
                                        > city of Greensboro). That means I get to do some good sightseeing around the
                                        > very anniversary of the battle -- always a plus :)
                                        >
                                        > So I would say that I definitely think my six hour trip to Greensboro was
                                        > well worth it and I will go again and again. And as this event appears to me
                                        > to be one of the biggest annual events in the south, many others seem to
                                        > share at least some of these sentiments. I, for one, would hate to see the
                                        > event disappear.
                                        >
                                        > So thanks again to everyone associated with this event and I hope to see
                                        > ya'll again next March.
                                        >
                                        > Mike Cecere 7th VA
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.