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RE: [Revlist] Re: Best preserved battlefield in northeast?

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  • Jack Sherry
    Visit Fort Ticonderoga. Ask if someone from the museum staff to guide you along the original French lines in the woods (visitors are not allowed/supposed to go
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 1, 2010
      Visit Fort Ticonderoga. Ask if someone from the museum staff to guide you along the original French lines in the woods (visitors are not allowed/supposed to go there on their own). It is truly amazing to see how the French lines followed the contours of the high ground making it so difficult to attack the French lines.

      Jack Sherry
      To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
      From: ottercreek@...
      Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 01:45:05 +0000
      Subject: [Revlist] Re: Best preserved battlefield in northeast?




























      If you get into the Lake Champlain valley, Crown Point is not that much different from what it was during the Revolution. While not a battle site, Mount Independence State Historic Site across from Ti was home to several thousand American and then British and German troops. The Hubbardton Battlefield State Historic Site is a truly beautiful site with views for miles to the west and south and the site of a hot rear guard action.



      Mike Barbieri

      Whitcomb's Corps



      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "notomox" <notomox@...> wrote:

      >

      > I would like to visit a battlefield in the northeast this fall. I would like to know which major/battlefield is well preserved.

      >


















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Glenn Williams
      Dear Friends and Fellow Historians,   Having worked in battlefield preservation when I was historian of the National Park Service s American Battlefield
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 2, 2010
        Dear Friends and Fellow Historians,
         
        Having worked in battlefield preservation when I was historian of the National Park Service's American Battlefield Protection Program (2001-2004), I still have a deep interest in the subject, with the Revolutionary War my personal research focus, followed closely by other eighteenth century conflicts.  I would say most of those so far suggested are good candidates. 
         
        Personally, I like Hubbardton, although small, it is fairly pristine in appearance to the day of the battle.  Saratoga is probably the best National Park Service unit fitting the criteria of the topic question: not only in the preservation, but in its interpretive programming as well. 
         
        I like Monmouth, especially what New Jersey has done with it under the leadership of Dr. Gary Wheeler Stone.  One of the assignments in my 20-year Army career was commanding all the Army and Army Reserve recruiters in Monmouth, Middlesex and Ocean Counties - including one office in Freehold - in the early 1980s.  As I recall the "battlefield park" at that time consisted mainly of athletic fields, picnic areas, and public restrooms.  There was virtually nothing on the battle's interpretation except the plaques and von Steuben monument near the visitors center.  Now, it is a well interpreted site that has preserved a key portion of the core battlefield.   
         
        My personal favorite in the category we are discussing, and which probably encompasses the largest proportion of actual battlefield that still looks as it did in 1777, is Bennington.  You have to look beyond the small segment that is within the limits of the New York State Park where the monument sits, however.  
         
        When I was with the ABPP, I had the opportunity to walk the battlefield with a member of the New York State Historic Preservation Office (I'm sorry his name escapes me at the moment), who did a study comparing 18th century maps with present day maps and the current appearance.  Despite the various parcels of land being under private ownership, it was surprising how similar the terrain remains!  If memory serves, even most modern structures sit on the footprints or foundations of 18th century structures, and paved roads, as well as dirt roads and farm lanes, generally follow the trace of roads contemporary to the battle.  The foot print of the Loyalist redoubt, I believe, is still discernible to the naked eye.  The artillery lunettes still have traces of earthwork mounds.  Open agricultural fields are still, for the most part, either under cultivation or fallow, or pasture land.  Areas labeled as morass or swamp on the eighteenth century maps
        still have soft ground or cow ponds on them.   
         
        Someone mentioned Newtown in a previous response.  Unfortunately, much of the actual battle is not only under private ownership, but much of it has been lost to development and modern intrusion.  I realize there are segments being preserved, and also negotiations with some land owners so that portions of the field with particular historical significance can be acquired for preservation by the state or local government, and for possible inclusion in a future NPS unit or affiliate site; but even with that acquisition, I do not think it will result in encompassing most of the "core" battlefield.     
         
        Best Regards,
         
        Glenn 

        --- On Wed, 9/1/10, notomox <notomox@...> wrote:
         
        I would like to visit a battlefield in the northeast this fall. I would like to know which major/battlefield is well preserved.
         
         




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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • mike
        Glenn, Might you be thinking of Phil Lord and his work on the Bennington settlement patterns ? Mike Barbieri Whitcomb s Corps
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 2, 2010
          Glenn,

          Might you be thinking of Phil Lord and his work on the Bennington settlement patterns ?

          Mike Barbieri
          Whitcomb's Corps

          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Williams <gfwilliams607@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Dear Friends and Fellow Historians,
          >  
          > Having worked in battlefield preservation when I was historian of the National Park Service's American Battlefield Protection Program (2001-2004), I still have a deep interest in the subject, with the Revolutionary War my personal research focus, followed closely by other eighteenth century conflicts.  I would say most of those so far suggested are good candidates. 
          >  
          > Personally, I like Hubbardton, although small, it is fairly pristine in appearance to the day of the battle.  Saratoga is probably the best National Park Service unit fitting the criteria of the topic question: not only in the preservation, but in its interpretive programming as well. 
          >  
          > I like Monmouth, especially what New Jersey has done with it under the leadership of Dr. Gary Wheeler Stone.  One of the assignments in my 20-year Army career was commanding all the Army and Army Reserve recruiters in Monmouth, Middlesex and Ocean Counties - including one office in Freehold - in the early 1980s.  As I recall the "battlefield park" at that time consisted mainly of athletic fields, picnic areas, and public restrooms.  There was virtually nothing on the battle's interpretation except the plaques and von Steuben monument near the visitors center.  Now, it is a well interpreted site that has preserved a key portion of the core battlefield.   
          >  
          > My personal favorite in the category we are discussing, and which probably encompasses the largest proportion of actual battlefield that still looks as it did in 1777, is Bennington.  You have to look beyond the small segment that is within the limits of the New York State Park where the monument sits, however.  
          >  
          > When I was with the ABPP, I had the opportunity to walk the battlefield with a member of the New York State Historic Preservation Office (I'm sorry his name escapes me at the moment), who did a study comparing 18th century maps with present day maps and the current appearance.  Despite the various parcels of land being under private ownership, it was surprising how similar the terrain remains!  If memory serves, even most modern structures sit on the footprints or foundations of 18th century structures, and paved roads, as well as dirt roads and farm lanes, generally follow the trace of roads contemporary to the battle.  The foot print of the Loyalist redoubt, I believe, is still discernible to the naked eye.  The artillery lunettes still have traces of earthwork mounds.  Open agricultural fields are still, for the most part, either under cultivation or fallow, or pasture land.  Areas labeled as morass or swamp on the eighteenth century maps
          > still have soft ground or cow ponds on them.   
          >  
          > Someone mentioned Newtown in a previous response.  Unfortunately, much of the actual battle is not only under private ownership, but much of it has been lost to development and modern intrusion.  I realize there are segments being preserved, and also negotiations with some land owners so that portions of the field with particular historical significance can be acquired for preservation by the state or local government, and for possible inclusion in a future NPS unit or affiliate site; but even with that acquisition, I do not think it will result in encompassing most of the "core" battlefield.     
          >  
          > Best Regards,
          >  
          > Glenn 
        • chris DIPASQUALE
          Saratoga , Crown Pt , The lines of Ti, Battle Road is woth a visit. Where in the northeast are u goin?   Chris 5th Ny ... From: notomox
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 2, 2010
            Saratoga , Crown Pt , The lines of Ti, Battle Road is woth a visit. Where in the northeast are u goin?
             
            Chris
            5th Ny

            --- On Wed, 9/1/10, notomox <notomox@...> wrote:


            From: notomox <notomox@...>
            Subject: [Revlist] Best preserved battlefield in northeast?
            To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, September 1, 2010, 7:43 PM


             



            I would like to visit a battlefield in the northeast this fall. I would like to know which major/battlefield is well preserved.











            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Glenn Williams
            PMike,   I believe you are correct  Thanks.  This was 7 or 8 years ago now..   Glenn ...   Glenn, Might you be thinking of Phil Lord and his work on the
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 2, 2010
              PMike,
               
              I believe you are correct  Thanks.  This was 7 or 8 years ago now..
               
              Glenn

              --- On Thu, 9/2/10, mike <ottercreek@...> wrote:
               
              Glenn,

              Might you be thinking of Phil Lord and his work on the Bennington settlement patterns ?

              Mike Barbieri
              Whitcomb's Corps

              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Glenn Williams <gfwilliams607@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Dear Friends and Fellow Historians,
              >  
              > Having worked in battlefield preservation when I was historian of the National Park Service's American Battlefield Protection Program (2001-2004), I still have a deep interest in the subject, with the Revolutionary War my personal research focus, followed closely by other eighteenth century conflicts.  I would say most of those so far suggested are good candidates. 
              >  
              > Personally, I like Hubbardton, although small, it is fairly pristine in appearance to the day of the battle.  Saratoga is probably the best National Park Service unit fitting the criteria of the topic question: not only in the preservation, but in its interpretive programming as well. 
              >  
              > I like Monmouth, especially what New Jersey has done with it under the leadership of Dr. Gary Wheeler Stone.  One of the assignments in my 20-year Army career was commanding all the Army and Army Reserve recruiters in Monmouth, Middlesex and Ocean Counties - including one office in Freehold - in the early 1980s.  As I recall the "battlefield park" at that time consisted mainly of athletic fields, picnic areas, and public restrooms.  There was virtually nothing on the battle's interpretation except the plaques and von Steuben monument near the visitors center.  Now, it is a well interpreted site that has preserved a key portion of the core battlefield.   
              >  
              > My personal favorite in the category we are discussing, and which probably encompasses the largest proportion of actual battlefield that still looks as it did in 1777, is Bennington.  You have to look beyond the small segment that is within the limits of the New York State Park where the monument sits, however.  
              >  
              > When I was with the ABPP, I had the opportunity to walk the battlefield with a member of the New York State Historic Preservation Office (I'm sorry his name escapes me at the moment), who did a study comparing 18th century maps with present day maps and the current appearance.  Despite the various parcels of land being under private ownership, it was surprising how similar the terrain remains!  If memory serves, even most modern structures sit on the footprints or foundations of 18th century structures, and paved roads, as well as dirt roads and farm lanes, generally follow the trace of roads contemporary to the battle.  The foot print of the Loyalist redoubt, I believe, is still discernible to the naked eye.  The artillery lunettes still have traces of earthwork mounds.  Open agricultural fields are still, for the most part, either under cultivation or fallow, or pasture land.  Areas labeled as morass or swamp on the
              eighteenth century maps
              > still have soft ground or cow ponds on them.   
              >  
              > Someone mentioned Newtown in a previous response.  Unfortunately, much of the actual battle is not only under private ownership, but much of it has been lost to development and modern intrusion.  I realize there are segments being preserved, and also negotiations with some land owners so that portions of the field with particular historical significance can be acquired for preservation by the state or local government, and for possible inclusion in a future NPS unit or affiliate site; but even with that acquisition, I do not think it will result in encompassing most of the "core" battlefield.     
              >  
              > Best Regards,
              >  
              > Glenn 















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Paul O'Shaughnessy
              The Lexington-Lincoln-Concord Battle Road deserves a vote, if not as best preserved then perhaps the best restored, saved from the edge of 20th Century
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 2, 2010
                The Lexington-Lincoln-Concord Battle Road deserves a vote, if not as best preserved then perhaps the best restored, saved from the edge of 20th Century destruction by the establishment of the National Park 50 years ago. The gradual restoration of pastureland and many original structures is slowly bringing the original landscape back into view.

                Paul O'Shaughnessy
                10th Regiment of Foot
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