Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Revlist] Re: Haversacks: Did they have them? Now Rev War food article ...

Expand Messages
  • dkeas
    Was in the research section of the library and ran across this book: The Book of the Continental Soldier by Harold L. Peterson and published in 1968. Didn¹t
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Was in the research section of the library and ran across this book: The
      Book of the Continental Soldier by Harold L. Peterson and published in 1968.
      Didn¹t have much time to look at it, but what I saw it seemed to have some
      good research backed by a good Bibliography. Anyone else ever read this
      book and if so, does it seem to be good info? Don



      From: John <ju_rees@...>
      Reply-To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:43:47 -0000
      To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [Revlist] Re: Haversacks: Did they have them? Now Rev War food
      article ...






      Hi Mike,

      Curious, I saw your post right AFTER I posted my piece on haversack
      shortages. Sad to say, we think alike ...

      For anyone interested in more on Rev War soldiers' food, mess groups, food
      distribution, my article (see outline below) on the subject will be out in
      Military Collector & Historian later this year ... not too late to subscribe
      (for information see http://military-historians.org/ ) My piece on the
      Battle of Millstone, January 1777, should be out in the March issue.

      Cheers,

      John
      www.revwar75.com/library/rees

      "'To the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet.': Soldiers' Food and
      Cooking in the War for Independence"
      Subheadings:

      "The manner of messing and living together": Continental Army Mess Groups
      "Who shall have this?": Food Distribution
      "A hard game ...": Continental Army Cooks
      "On with Kittle, to make some hasty Pudding …": How a "Continental Devil"
      Broke His Fast
      1. The Army Ration and Cooking Methods.
      2. Eating Utensils.
      3. The Morning Meal.
      4. Other Likely Breakfast Fare.

      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , "mike"
      <ottercreek@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , "John"
      <ju_rees@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Well, as frustrating as this conversation has been, some good information
      HAS come out. BUT, while British equipment returns show enough haversacks issued
      to complete all their soldiers (on campaign), American returns and other
      accounts indicate periodic shortages, so much so that it was often the norm for
      Continental troops NOT to have haversacks. Next time you go out, try carrying
      your food in your knapsack or in a camp kettle (I have, it's an interesting
      exercise).
      > >
      >
      > John,
      >
      > Thanks for posting that piece. Quite interesting. Some of those returns and
      comments are ones I have seen and prompted my impression. Following is a quote
      from Burgoyne's "State of the Expedition from Canada ..." (available from Don
      Hagist, by the way) talking about men carrying their provisions:
      >
      > "Those who are acquainted with the capricious working of the tempers of
      men, will not wonder at the difficulty of prevailing upon a common soldier in
      any exigency to husband his provisions. In a settled camp, the young soldier has
      very short fare on the fourth day after delivery: but upon a march in bad
      weather and bad roads, when the weary foot slips back at every step, and a
      general curse is provoked at the weight that causes the retardment, he must be a
      patient veteran, and of much experience in scarcity, who is not tempted to throw
      the whole contents of the haversack into the mire. He feels the present
      incumbrance grievous--Want is a day remote.--'Let the General find a supply: it
      is the King's cause and the General's interest--he will never let the soldier be
      starved.'
      > "This is common reasoning in the ranks. I state it for those who have not
      seen fatiguing service, and may have a judgment to form upon it."
      >
      > Each day's provisions, if a reasonable quantity, would amount to two to three
      pounds and a soldier often received four days at a time so, do the math--upwards
      of twelve pounds hanging off that narrow strap. If you get tired carrying a
      firelock that weighs less than that ...?
      >
      > Mike Barbieri
      > Whitcomb's Corps
      >








      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • bolton1812
      ...knapsack? Cheers, Bob Bolton Pa. Associators
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        ...knapsack?
        Cheers,
        Bob Bolton
        Pa. Associators




        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@...> wrote:
        >
        > Allow me to pose a question, regarding this item, as applies to us modern reenactors. What I carry in mine are modern wallet, car keys, 18th Cent eyeglasses, breath mints (to talk with the public), a pocket knife, some sinew, and a small Bible. Since I am reluctant to leave especially the wallet and keys behind, in my tent (not that I don't trust reencators, I don't trust the public), what shall I do with them?
        > YHS,
        > Mike Eckhart
        > Cpl., 24th Conn Militia
        > (who has a home-made, hand-sewn, leather strapped, antler buttoned, brown oilcloth, haversack)
        >
      • bolton1812
        ...notebook? Cheers, Bob Bolton Pa. Associators
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          ...notebook?
          Cheers,
          Bob Bolton
          Pa. Associators



          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Sgt42RHR@... wrote:
          >
          > Thank you for your response. Since this man was a Sjt., and since he was
          > carrying a pen in a case, I wondered if it might be a small pocket book of
          > paper for taking notes. I wonder, if that had been the article in
          > question, how would it have been described?
          >
          > Again, thanks for your reply.
          >
          > Cheers,
          > John
          >
          > John M. Johnston
          > There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry
          >
          >
          > In a message dated 3/1/2010 5:34:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,
          > gstheberge@... writes:
          >
          > a man's wallet, especially an embroidered cloth wallet (like a modern
          > wallet for carrying money and credit cards, not to be confused with a "market
          > wallet") was often referred to as a pocketbook.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Mike E
          Not to be a smart-alec, but I know there s been discussion as to which style was pc. Was there a consensus, and who offers one for sale? Mike
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Not to be a smart-alec, but I know there's been discussion as to which style was pc. Was there a consensus, and who offers one for sale?

            Mike

            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bolton1812" <ebolton123@...> wrote:
            >
            > ...knapsack?
            > Cheers,
            > Bob Bolton
            > Pa. Associators
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Allow me to pose a question, regarding this item, as applies to us modern reenactors. What I carry in mine are modern wallet, car keys, 18th Cent eyeglasses, breath mints (to talk with the public), a pocket knife, some sinew, and a small Bible. Since I am reluctant to leave especially the wallet and keys behind, in my tent (not that I don't trust reencators, I don't trust the public), what shall I do with them?
            > > YHS,
            > > Mike Eckhart
            > > Cpl., 24th Conn Militia
            > > (who has a home-made, hand-sewn, leather strapped, antler buttoned, brown oilcloth, haversack)
            > >
            >
          • Todd Post
            Mike, Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet. Cheers, Todd Post 2d Virginia Regiment
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Mike,

              Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet.

              Cheers,
              Todd Post
              2d Virginia Regiment
              www.secondvirginia.org

              "The heroism and gallantry of the second Virginia regiment I cannot help particularly mentioning; they would do honour to any country in the world. It is universally believed they behaved the best of any troops in the field."
              -- Virginia Gazette, October 17, 1777

              facebook.com/SecondVirginia
              twitter.com/SecondVirginia
              youtube.com/2dVirginiaRegiment
              flickr.com/photos/SecondVirginia

              On Mar 1, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Mike E wrote:

              > Not to be a smart-alec, but I know there's been discussion as to which style was pc. Was there a consensus, and who offers one for sale?
              >
              > Mike
            • bdodgeweaver
              ... Mike - Roy s kit for a plain haversack (no GR/Broad Arrow stamp) is $12. It s the cheap and authentic - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Todd Post <todd.post2@...> wrote:
                >
                > Mike,
                >
                > Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet.
                >
                > Cheers,
                > Todd Post
                > 2d Virginia Regiment
                > www.secondvirginia.org
                >
                >
                Mike - Roy's kit for a plain haversack (no "GR/Broad Arrow" stamp) is $12. It's the cheap and authentic - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
              • gffranks3
                Mike et al., I highly recommend Roy Najecki s haversacks. I bought the kit and enjoyed creating the finished haversack from it. Everything you need plus
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 2, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Mike et al.,

                  I highly recommend Roy Najecki's haversacks.

                  I bought the kit and enjoyed creating the finished haversack from it. Everything you need plus excellent instructions and documentation.

                  Cheers,

                  Geo. Franks, Hatter
                  http://cockedhats.com
                • Mike E
                  Should have made it a little clearer. One person suggested a knapsack for carrying the 21st century items. As I stated, I have a good haversack, in the
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 2, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Should have made it a little clearer. One person suggested a knapsack for carrying the 21st century items. As I stated, I have a good haversack, in the approximate dimensions, that I had handsewn. When did the knapsack come into vogue for the Continental soldier? I have one I put together copying the 1776 Sketchbook but I think people have issues with it.

                    Mike

                    --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdodgeweaver" <BDodgeWeaver@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Todd Post <todd.post2@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Mike,
                    > >
                    > > Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet.
                    > >
                    > > Cheers,
                    > > Todd Post
                    > > 2d Virginia Regiment
                    > > www.secondvirginia.org
                    > >
                    > >
                    > Mike - Roy's kit for a plain haversack (no "GR/Broad Arrow" stamp) is $12. It's the cheap and authentic - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
                    >
                  • bolton1812
                    Mike, As to style...depends on your impression. A single bag style is really brainless to make...kinda like a slightly oversized haversack (OMG that word)
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 2, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Mike,
                      As to style...depends on your impression. A single bag style is really brainless to make...kinda like a slightly oversized haversack (OMG that word) with straps.
                      Cheers,
                      Bob Bolton
                      Pa. Associators

                      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Not to be a smart-alec, but I know there's been discussion as to which style was pc. Was there a consensus, and who offers one for sale?
                      >
                      > Mike
                      >
                      > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bolton1812" <ebolton123@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > ...knapsack?
                      > > Cheers,
                      > > Bob Bolton
                      > > Pa. Associators
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Allow me to pose a question, regarding this item, as applies to us modern reenactors. What I carry in mine are modern wallet, car keys, 18th Cent eyeglasses, breath mints (to talk with the public), a pocket knife, some sinew, and a small Bible. Since I am reluctant to leave especially the wallet and keys behind, in my tent (not that I don't trust reencators, I don't trust the public), what shall I do with them?
                      > > > YHS,
                      > > > Mike Eckhart
                      > > > Cpl., 24th Conn Militia
                      > > > (who has a home-made, hand-sewn, leather strapped, antler buttoned, brown oilcloth, haversack)
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • bolton1812
                      Mike, I guess that would have been me. I wasn t suggesting a knapsack for 21st c. items, rather, put your 21st c. items in your knapsack. A smallish cloth
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 2, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Mike,
                        I guess that would have been me. I wasn't suggesting a knapsack "for" 21st c. items, rather, put your 21st c. items in your knapsack. A smallish cloth or leather bag tied securely and tucked into a corner of your knapsack should hold your modern needs.
                        I guess it really depends on how you use your gear. If you need your haversack for food, use the k-sack for your keys, etc., as I mentioned. If you don't eat from your haversack, then it really does'nt matter which conveyance you use(?).
                        Cheers,
                        Bob Bolton
                        Pa. Associators


                        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Should have made it a little clearer. One person suggested a knapsack for carrying the 21st century items. As I stated, I have a good haversack, in the approximate dimensions, that I had handsewn. When did the knapsack come into vogue for the Continental soldier? I have one I put together copying the 1776 Sketchbook but I think people have issues with it.
                        >
                        > Mike
                        >
                        > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdodgeweaver" <BDodgeWeaver@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Todd Post <todd.post2@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Mike,
                        > > >
                        > > > Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet.
                        > > >
                        > > > Cheers,
                        > > > Todd Post
                        > > > 2d Virginia Regiment
                        > > > www.secondvirginia.org
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > Mike - Roy's kit for a plain haversack (no "GR/Broad Arrow" stamp) is $12. It's the cheap and authentic - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
                        > >
                        >
                      • Todd Post
                        Mike, ... I don t think it s a matter of knapsacks becoming into vogue for the Continental soldier , in fact I think the point has been made in this whole
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 2, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Mike,

                          > Should have made it a little clearer. One person suggested a knapsack for carrying the 21st century items. As I stated, I have a good haversack, in the approximate dimensions, that I had handsewn. When did the knapsack come into vogue for the Continental soldier? I have one I put together copying the 1776 Sketchbook but I think people have issues with it.

                          I don't think it's a matter of knapsacks becoming "into vogue for the Continental soldier", in fact I think the point has been made in this whole discussion that Continentals were more likely to have a knapsack then they were a haversack.

                          For the 2d Virginia Regiment, they were issuing cloth to make knapsacks within two months of formation (while new companies continued to roll into Williamsburg) as mentioned in the regiment's orderly book: "...“all the Officers of the 2nd Regiment are Immediately to get themselves in Readiness about Compleating their men with all the necessarys... knapsacks...Haversacks, or any other Necessarys.”" The daybook of the Virginia Public Store documents the cloth issued for this purpose: "To 73 yards Oznabr. Dilvd Capt Taliaferro for Napsacks @ 1/6"

                          You do have to be careful with "Sketchbook '76" as like with the Book of the Continental Soldier, while it was leading edge for its time, some of the information has been debunked. For instance, one of the knapsacks in there is actually a Federal period militia knapsack, not a Revolutionary War one.

                          Cheers,
                          Todd Post
                          2d Virginia Regiment
                          www.secondvirginia.org

                          "The heroism and gallantry of the second Virginia regiment I cannot help particularly mentioning; they would do honour to any country in the world. It is universally believed they behaved the best of any troops in the field."
                          -- Virginia Gazette, October 17, 1777

                          facebook.com/SecondVirginia
                          twitter.com/SecondVirginia
                          youtube.com/2dVirginiaRegiment
                          flickr.com/photos/SecondVirginia
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.