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Re: [Revlist] Re: Keys and wallet - in your pockets

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  • Sgt42RHR@aol.com
    Thank you for your response. Since this man was a Sjt., and since he was carrying a pen in a case, I wondered if it might be a small pocket book of paper for
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
      Thank you for your response. Since this man was a Sjt., and since he was
      carrying a pen in a case, I wondered if it might be a small pocket book of
      paper for taking notes. I wonder, if that had been the article in
      question, how would it have been described?

      Again, thanks for your reply.

      Cheers,
      John

      John M. Johnston
      There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry


      In a message dated 3/1/2010 5:34:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,
      gstheberge@... writes:

      a man's wallet, especially an embroidered cloth wallet (like a modern
      wallet for carrying money and credit cards, not to be confused with a "market
      wallet") was often referred to as a pocketbook.




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Gregory Theberge
      John.   to be honest, we often look for a 21st century label to put on things that may not have meant the same thing back then. I do know embroidered men s
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
        John.
         
        to be honest, we often look for a 21st century label to put on things that may not have meant the same thing back then. I do know embroidered men's 21st century "wallets" (for example, flamestitch) were known as pocketbooks, but who knows, the author may have meant something entirely different. Is it a book to put in one's pocket, or a pocket that resembled a book. I wonder how a woman's contemporary "pocketbook" got it's name now that we think of it.
         
        greg

        --- On Mon, 3/1/10, Sgt42RHR@... <Sgt42RHR@...> wrote:


        From: Sgt42RHR@... <Sgt42RHR@...>
        Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Keys and wallet - in your pockets
        To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 8:01 AM


         



        Thank you for your response. Since this man was a Sjt., and since he was
        carrying a pen in a case, I wondered if it might be a small pocket book of
        paper for taking notes. I wonder, if that had been the article in
        question, how would it have been described?

        Again, thanks for your reply.

        Cheers,
        John

        John M. Johnston
        There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry

        In a message dated 3/1/2010 5:34:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,
        gstheberge@yahoo. com writes:

        a man's wallet, especially an embroidered cloth wallet (like a modern
        wallet for carrying money and credit cards, not to be confused with a "market
        wallet") was often referred to as a pocketbook.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • dkeas
        Was in the research section of the library and ran across this book: The Book of the Continental Soldier by Harold L. Peterson and published in 1968. Didn¹t
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
          Was in the research section of the library and ran across this book: The
          Book of the Continental Soldier by Harold L. Peterson and published in 1968.
          Didn¹t have much time to look at it, but what I saw it seemed to have some
          good research backed by a good Bibliography. Anyone else ever read this
          book and if so, does it seem to be good info? Don



          From: John <ju_rees@...>
          Reply-To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:43:47 -0000
          To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [Revlist] Re: Haversacks: Did they have them? Now Rev War food
          article ...






          Hi Mike,

          Curious, I saw your post right AFTER I posted my piece on haversack
          shortages. Sad to say, we think alike ...

          For anyone interested in more on Rev War soldiers' food, mess groups, food
          distribution, my article (see outline below) on the subject will be out in
          Military Collector & Historian later this year ... not too late to subscribe
          (for information see http://military-historians.org/ ) My piece on the
          Battle of Millstone, January 1777, should be out in the March issue.

          Cheers,

          John
          www.revwar75.com/library/rees

          "'To the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet.': Soldiers' Food and
          Cooking in the War for Independence"
          Subheadings:

          "The manner of messing and living together": Continental Army Mess Groups
          "Who shall have this?": Food Distribution
          "A hard game ...": Continental Army Cooks
          "On with Kittle, to make some hasty Pudding …": How a "Continental Devil"
          Broke His Fast
          1. The Army Ration and Cooking Methods.
          2. Eating Utensils.
          3. The Morning Meal.
          4. Other Likely Breakfast Fare.

          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , "mike"
          <ottercreek@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , "John"
          <ju_rees@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Well, as frustrating as this conversation has been, some good information
          HAS come out. BUT, while British equipment returns show enough haversacks issued
          to complete all their soldiers (on campaign), American returns and other
          accounts indicate periodic shortages, so much so that it was often the norm for
          Continental troops NOT to have haversacks. Next time you go out, try carrying
          your food in your knapsack or in a camp kettle (I have, it's an interesting
          exercise).
          > >
          >
          > John,
          >
          > Thanks for posting that piece. Quite interesting. Some of those returns and
          comments are ones I have seen and prompted my impression. Following is a quote
          from Burgoyne's "State of the Expedition from Canada ..." (available from Don
          Hagist, by the way) talking about men carrying their provisions:
          >
          > "Those who are acquainted with the capricious working of the tempers of
          men, will not wonder at the difficulty of prevailing upon a common soldier in
          any exigency to husband his provisions. In a settled camp, the young soldier has
          very short fare on the fourth day after delivery: but upon a march in bad
          weather and bad roads, when the weary foot slips back at every step, and a
          general curse is provoked at the weight that causes the retardment, he must be a
          patient veteran, and of much experience in scarcity, who is not tempted to throw
          the whole contents of the haversack into the mire. He feels the present
          incumbrance grievous--Want is a day remote.--'Let the General find a supply: it
          is the King's cause and the General's interest--he will never let the soldier be
          starved.'
          > "This is common reasoning in the ranks. I state it for those who have not
          seen fatiguing service, and may have a judgment to form upon it."
          >
          > Each day's provisions, if a reasonable quantity, would amount to two to three
          pounds and a soldier often received four days at a time so, do the math--upwards
          of twelve pounds hanging off that narrow strap. If you get tired carrying a
          firelock that weighs less than that ...?
          >
          > Mike Barbieri
          > Whitcomb's Corps
          >








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • bolton1812
          ...knapsack? Cheers, Bob Bolton Pa. Associators
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
            ...knapsack?
            Cheers,
            Bob Bolton
            Pa. Associators




            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@...> wrote:
            >
            > Allow me to pose a question, regarding this item, as applies to us modern reenactors. What I carry in mine are modern wallet, car keys, 18th Cent eyeglasses, breath mints (to talk with the public), a pocket knife, some sinew, and a small Bible. Since I am reluctant to leave especially the wallet and keys behind, in my tent (not that I don't trust reencators, I don't trust the public), what shall I do with them?
            > YHS,
            > Mike Eckhart
            > Cpl., 24th Conn Militia
            > (who has a home-made, hand-sewn, leather strapped, antler buttoned, brown oilcloth, haversack)
            >
          • bolton1812
            ...notebook? Cheers, Bob Bolton Pa. Associators
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
              ...notebook?
              Cheers,
              Bob Bolton
              Pa. Associators



              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Sgt42RHR@... wrote:
              >
              > Thank you for your response. Since this man was a Sjt., and since he was
              > carrying a pen in a case, I wondered if it might be a small pocket book of
              > paper for taking notes. I wonder, if that had been the article in
              > question, how would it have been described?
              >
              > Again, thanks for your reply.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > John
              >
              > John M. Johnston
              > There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry
              >
              >
              > In a message dated 3/1/2010 5:34:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,
              > gstheberge@... writes:
              >
              > a man's wallet, especially an embroidered cloth wallet (like a modern
              > wallet for carrying money and credit cards, not to be confused with a "market
              > wallet") was often referred to as a pocketbook.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Mike E
              Not to be a smart-alec, but I know there s been discussion as to which style was pc. Was there a consensus, and who offers one for sale? Mike
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
                Not to be a smart-alec, but I know there's been discussion as to which style was pc. Was there a consensus, and who offers one for sale?

                Mike

                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bolton1812" <ebolton123@...> wrote:
                >
                > ...knapsack?
                > Cheers,
                > Bob Bolton
                > Pa. Associators
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Allow me to pose a question, regarding this item, as applies to us modern reenactors. What I carry in mine are modern wallet, car keys, 18th Cent eyeglasses, breath mints (to talk with the public), a pocket knife, some sinew, and a small Bible. Since I am reluctant to leave especially the wallet and keys behind, in my tent (not that I don't trust reencators, I don't trust the public), what shall I do with them?
                > > YHS,
                > > Mike Eckhart
                > > Cpl., 24th Conn Militia
                > > (who has a home-made, hand-sewn, leather strapped, antler buttoned, brown oilcloth, haversack)
                > >
                >
              • Todd Post
                Mike, Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet. Cheers, Todd Post 2d Virginia Regiment
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
                  Mike,

                  Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet.

                  Cheers,
                  Todd Post
                  2d Virginia Regiment
                  www.secondvirginia.org

                  "The heroism and gallantry of the second Virginia regiment I cannot help particularly mentioning; they would do honour to any country in the world. It is universally believed they behaved the best of any troops in the field."
                  -- Virginia Gazette, October 17, 1777

                  facebook.com/SecondVirginia
                  twitter.com/SecondVirginia
                  youtube.com/2dVirginiaRegiment
                  flickr.com/photos/SecondVirginia

                  On Mar 1, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Mike E wrote:

                  > Not to be a smart-alec, but I know there's been discussion as to which style was pc. Was there a consensus, and who offers one for sale?
                  >
                  > Mike
                • bdodgeweaver
                  ... Mike - Roy s kit for a plain haversack (no GR/Broad Arrow stamp) is $12. It s the cheap and authentic - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 1, 2010
                    --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Todd Post <todd.post2@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Mike,
                    >
                    > Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet.
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > Todd Post
                    > 2d Virginia Regiment
                    > www.secondvirginia.org
                    >
                    >
                    Mike - Roy's kit for a plain haversack (no "GR/Broad Arrow" stamp) is $12. It's the cheap and authentic - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
                  • gffranks3
                    Mike et al., I highly recommend Roy Najecki s haversacks. I bought the kit and enjoyed creating the finished haversack from it. Everything you need plus
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 2, 2010
                      Mike et al.,

                      I highly recommend Roy Najecki's haversacks.

                      I bought the kit and enjoyed creating the finished haversack from it. Everything you need plus excellent instructions and documentation.

                      Cheers,

                      Geo. Franks, Hatter
                      http://cockedhats.com
                    • Mike E
                      Should have made it a little clearer. One person suggested a knapsack for carrying the 21st century items. As I stated, I have a good haversack, in the
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 2, 2010
                        Should have made it a little clearer. One person suggested a knapsack for carrying the 21st century items. As I stated, I have a good haversack, in the approximate dimensions, that I had handsewn. When did the knapsack come into vogue for the Continental soldier? I have one I put together copying the 1776 Sketchbook but I think people have issues with it.

                        Mike

                        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdodgeweaver" <BDodgeWeaver@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Todd Post <todd.post2@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Mike,
                        > >
                        > > Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet.
                        > >
                        > > Cheers,
                        > > Todd Post
                        > > 2d Virginia Regiment
                        > > www.secondvirginia.org
                        > >
                        > >
                        > Mike - Roy's kit for a plain haversack (no "GR/Broad Arrow" stamp) is $12. It's the cheap and authentic - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
                        >
                      • bolton1812
                        Mike, As to style...depends on your impression. A single bag style is really brainless to make...kinda like a slightly oversized haversack (OMG that word)
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 2, 2010
                          Mike,
                          As to style...depends on your impression. A single bag style is really brainless to make...kinda like a slightly oversized haversack (OMG that word) with straps.
                          Cheers,
                          Bob Bolton
                          Pa. Associators

                          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Not to be a smart-alec, but I know there's been discussion as to which style was pc. Was there a consensus, and who offers one for sale?
                          >
                          > Mike
                          >
                          > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bolton1812" <ebolton123@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > ...knapsack?
                          > > Cheers,
                          > > Bob Bolton
                          > > Pa. Associators
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Allow me to pose a question, regarding this item, as applies to us modern reenactors. What I carry in mine are modern wallet, car keys, 18th Cent eyeglasses, breath mints (to talk with the public), a pocket knife, some sinew, and a small Bible. Since I am reluctant to leave especially the wallet and keys behind, in my tent (not that I don't trust reencators, I don't trust the public), what shall I do with them?
                          > > > YHS,
                          > > > Mike Eckhart
                          > > > Cpl., 24th Conn Militia
                          > > > (who has a home-made, hand-sewn, leather strapped, antler buttoned, brown oilcloth, haversack)
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • bolton1812
                          Mike, I guess that would have been me. I wasn t suggesting a knapsack for 21st c. items, rather, put your 21st c. items in your knapsack. A smallish cloth
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 2, 2010
                            Mike,
                            I guess that would have been me. I wasn't suggesting a knapsack "for" 21st c. items, rather, put your 21st c. items in your knapsack. A smallish cloth or leather bag tied securely and tucked into a corner of your knapsack should hold your modern needs.
                            I guess it really depends on how you use your gear. If you need your haversack for food, use the k-sack for your keys, etc., as I mentioned. If you don't eat from your haversack, then it really does'nt matter which conveyance you use(?).
                            Cheers,
                            Bob Bolton
                            Pa. Associators


                            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Should have made it a little clearer. One person suggested a knapsack for carrying the 21st century items. As I stated, I have a good haversack, in the approximate dimensions, that I had handsewn. When did the knapsack come into vogue for the Continental soldier? I have one I put together copying the 1776 Sketchbook but I think people have issues with it.
                            >
                            > Mike
                            >
                            > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdodgeweaver" <BDodgeWeaver@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Todd Post <todd.post2@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Mike,
                            > > >
                            > > > Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet.
                            > > >
                            > > > Cheers,
                            > > > Todd Post
                            > > > 2d Virginia Regiment
                            > > > www.secondvirginia.org
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > Mike - Roy's kit for a plain haversack (no "GR/Broad Arrow" stamp) is $12. It's the cheap and authentic - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
                            > >
                            >
                          • Todd Post
                            Mike, ... I don t think it s a matter of knapsacks becoming into vogue for the Continental soldier , in fact I think the point has been made in this whole
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 2, 2010
                              Mike,

                              > Should have made it a little clearer. One person suggested a knapsack for carrying the 21st century items. As I stated, I have a good haversack, in the approximate dimensions, that I had handsewn. When did the knapsack come into vogue for the Continental soldier? I have one I put together copying the 1776 Sketchbook but I think people have issues with it.

                              I don't think it's a matter of knapsacks becoming "into vogue for the Continental soldier", in fact I think the point has been made in this whole discussion that Continentals were more likely to have a knapsack then they were a haversack.

                              For the 2d Virginia Regiment, they were issuing cloth to make knapsacks within two months of formation (while new companies continued to roll into Williamsburg) as mentioned in the regiment's orderly book: "...“all the Officers of the 2nd Regiment are Immediately to get themselves in Readiness about Compleating their men with all the necessarys... knapsacks...Haversacks, or any other Necessarys.”" The daybook of the Virginia Public Store documents the cloth issued for this purpose: "To 73 yards Oznabr. Dilvd Capt Taliaferro for Napsacks @ 1/6"

                              You do have to be careful with "Sketchbook '76" as like with the Book of the Continental Soldier, while it was leading edge for its time, some of the information has been debunked. For instance, one of the knapsacks in there is actually a Federal period militia knapsack, not a Revolutionary War one.

                              Cheers,
                              Todd Post
                              2d Virginia Regiment
                              www.secondvirginia.org

                              "The heroism and gallantry of the second Virginia regiment I cannot help particularly mentioning; they would do honour to any country in the world. It is universally believed they behaved the best of any troops in the field."
                              -- Virginia Gazette, October 17, 1777

                              facebook.com/SecondVirginia
                              twitter.com/SecondVirginia
                              youtube.com/2dVirginiaRegiment
                              flickr.com/photos/SecondVirginia
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