Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Revlist] Re: Keys and wallet - in your pockets

Expand Messages
  • Gregory Theberge
    a man s wallet, especially an embroidered cloth wallet (like a modern wallet for carrying money and credit cards, not to be confused with a market wallet )
    Message 1 of 26 , Mar 1 3:33 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      a man's wallet, especially an embroidered cloth wallet (like a modern wallet for carrying money and credit cards, not to be confused with a "market wallet") was often referred to as a pocketbook.

      --- On Mon, 3/1/10, Sgt42RHR@... <Sgt42RHR@...> wrote:

      From: Sgt42RHR@... <Sgt42RHR@...>
      Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Keys and wallet - in your pockets
      To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 12:18 AM
















       









      IN the context of the time, " they put their hands into his Pockets & took

      from him his watch together with a Pocket Book & Black Leather Pencase & a

      Handkerchief; " does there reference to a Pocket Book refer to a small

      notebook?



      Cheers,

      John



      John M. Johnston

      There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry



      In a message dated 2/28/2010 9:42:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,

      dhagist@cox. net writes:



      Put them in your pockets.

      Funny how we can use this modern solution in an 18th Century context. Our

      predecessors also carried wallets, watches with fobs, seals and such, clasp

      knives, pocket books, coin purses, prayer books, and what have you. They

      carried them in their pockets. We can too.

      If the car keys are too bulky and jangly, that is easily solved by having

      a separate keyring with just the car key on it. Use it to lock the bulky

      wad of house and office keys in the car, and carry only the key for the car

      itself. In fact, that key can fit in the wallet.

      Here's a nice court martial that mentions what a serjeant of the 42nd

      regiment was carrying in his pockets. If he can do it, we can do it.

      _http://www.ballinda http://www. bhttp://wwhttp: //wwhttp_

      (http://www.ballinda lloch-press. com/55th/ Williams. html)

      Don N. Hagist

      _http://revolutionar http://revhtt_ (http://revolutionar yimprints. com/)



      --- In _Revlist@yahoogroup sRevl_ (mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups .com) , "Mike

      E" <meck1776@.. m> wrote:

      >

      > Allow me to pose a question, regarding this item, as applies to us

      modern reenactors. What I carry in mine are modern wallet, car keys, 18th Cent

      eyeglasses, breath mints (to talk with the public), a pocket knife, some

      sinew, and a small Bible. Since I am reluctant to leave especially the wallet

      and keys behind, in my tent (not that I don't trust reencators, I don't

      trust the public), what shall I do with them?

      > YHS,

      > Mike Eckhart

      > Cpl., 24th Conn Militia

      > (who has a home-made, hand-sewn, leather strapped, antler buttoned,

      brown oilcloth, haversack)

      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






























      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sgt42RHR@aol.com
      Thank you for your response. Since this man was a Sjt., and since he was carrying a pen in a case, I wondered if it might be a small pocket book of paper for
      Message 2 of 26 , Mar 1 5:01 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Thank you for your response. Since this man was a Sjt., and since he was
        carrying a pen in a case, I wondered if it might be a small pocket book of
        paper for taking notes. I wonder, if that had been the article in
        question, how would it have been described?

        Again, thanks for your reply.

        Cheers,
        John

        John M. Johnston
        There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry


        In a message dated 3/1/2010 5:34:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,
        gstheberge@... writes:

        a man's wallet, especially an embroidered cloth wallet (like a modern
        wallet for carrying money and credit cards, not to be confused with a "market
        wallet") was often referred to as a pocketbook.




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Gregory Theberge
        John.   to be honest, we often look for a 21st century label to put on things that may not have meant the same thing back then. I do know embroidered men s
        Message 3 of 26 , Mar 1 5:52 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          John.
           
          to be honest, we often look for a 21st century label to put on things that may not have meant the same thing back then. I do know embroidered men's 21st century "wallets" (for example, flamestitch) were known as pocketbooks, but who knows, the author may have meant something entirely different. Is it a book to put in one's pocket, or a pocket that resembled a book. I wonder how a woman's contemporary "pocketbook" got it's name now that we think of it.
           
          greg

          --- On Mon, 3/1/10, Sgt42RHR@... <Sgt42RHR@...> wrote:


          From: Sgt42RHR@... <Sgt42RHR@...>
          Subject: Re: [Revlist] Re: Keys and wallet - in your pockets
          To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 8:01 AM


           



          Thank you for your response. Since this man was a Sjt., and since he was
          carrying a pen in a case, I wondered if it might be a small pocket book of
          paper for taking notes. I wonder, if that had been the article in
          question, how would it have been described?

          Again, thanks for your reply.

          Cheers,
          John

          John M. Johnston
          There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry

          In a message dated 3/1/2010 5:34:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,
          gstheberge@yahoo. com writes:

          a man's wallet, especially an embroidered cloth wallet (like a modern
          wallet for carrying money and credit cards, not to be confused with a "market
          wallet") was often referred to as a pocketbook.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • dkeas
          Was in the research section of the library and ran across this book: The Book of the Continental Soldier by Harold L. Peterson and published in 1968. Didn¹t
          Message 4 of 26 , Mar 1 9:44 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Was in the research section of the library and ran across this book: The
            Book of the Continental Soldier by Harold L. Peterson and published in 1968.
            Didn¹t have much time to look at it, but what I saw it seemed to have some
            good research backed by a good Bibliography. Anyone else ever read this
            book and if so, does it seem to be good info? Don



            From: John <ju_rees@...>
            Reply-To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:43:47 -0000
            To: <Revlist@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [Revlist] Re: Haversacks: Did they have them? Now Rev War food
            article ...






            Hi Mike,

            Curious, I saw your post right AFTER I posted my piece on haversack
            shortages. Sad to say, we think alike ...

            For anyone interested in more on Rev War soldiers' food, mess groups, food
            distribution, my article (see outline below) on the subject will be out in
            Military Collector & Historian later this year ... not too late to subscribe
            (for information see http://military-historians.org/ ) My piece on the
            Battle of Millstone, January 1777, should be out in the March issue.

            Cheers,

            John
            www.revwar75.com/library/rees

            "'To the hungry soul every bitter thing is sweet.': Soldiers' Food and
            Cooking in the War for Independence"
            Subheadings:

            "The manner of messing and living together": Continental Army Mess Groups
            "Who shall have this?": Food Distribution
            "A hard game ...": Continental Army Cooks
            "On with Kittle, to make some hasty Pudding …": How a "Continental Devil"
            Broke His Fast
            1. The Army Ration and Cooking Methods.
            2. Eating Utensils.
            3. The Morning Meal.
            4. Other Likely Breakfast Fare.

            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , "mike"
            <ottercreek@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , "John"
            <ju_rees@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Well, as frustrating as this conversation has been, some good information
            HAS come out. BUT, while British equipment returns show enough haversacks issued
            to complete all their soldiers (on campaign), American returns and other
            accounts indicate periodic shortages, so much so that it was often the norm for
            Continental troops NOT to have haversacks. Next time you go out, try carrying
            your food in your knapsack or in a camp kettle (I have, it's an interesting
            exercise).
            > >
            >
            > John,
            >
            > Thanks for posting that piece. Quite interesting. Some of those returns and
            comments are ones I have seen and prompted my impression. Following is a quote
            from Burgoyne's "State of the Expedition from Canada ..." (available from Don
            Hagist, by the way) talking about men carrying their provisions:
            >
            > "Those who are acquainted with the capricious working of the tempers of
            men, will not wonder at the difficulty of prevailing upon a common soldier in
            any exigency to husband his provisions. In a settled camp, the young soldier has
            very short fare on the fourth day after delivery: but upon a march in bad
            weather and bad roads, when the weary foot slips back at every step, and a
            general curse is provoked at the weight that causes the retardment, he must be a
            patient veteran, and of much experience in scarcity, who is not tempted to throw
            the whole contents of the haversack into the mire. He feels the present
            incumbrance grievous--Want is a day remote.--'Let the General find a supply: it
            is the King's cause and the General's interest--he will never let the soldier be
            starved.'
            > "This is common reasoning in the ranks. I state it for those who have not
            seen fatiguing service, and may have a judgment to form upon it."
            >
            > Each day's provisions, if a reasonable quantity, would amount to two to three
            pounds and a soldier often received four days at a time so, do the math--upwards
            of twelve pounds hanging off that narrow strap. If you get tired carrying a
            firelock that weighs less than that ...?
            >
            > Mike Barbieri
            > Whitcomb's Corps
            >








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • bolton1812
            ...knapsack? Cheers, Bob Bolton Pa. Associators
            Message 5 of 26 , Mar 1 3:02 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              ...knapsack?
              Cheers,
              Bob Bolton
              Pa. Associators




              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@...> wrote:
              >
              > Allow me to pose a question, regarding this item, as applies to us modern reenactors. What I carry in mine are modern wallet, car keys, 18th Cent eyeglasses, breath mints (to talk with the public), a pocket knife, some sinew, and a small Bible. Since I am reluctant to leave especially the wallet and keys behind, in my tent (not that I don't trust reencators, I don't trust the public), what shall I do with them?
              > YHS,
              > Mike Eckhart
              > Cpl., 24th Conn Militia
              > (who has a home-made, hand-sewn, leather strapped, antler buttoned, brown oilcloth, haversack)
              >
            • bolton1812
              ...notebook? Cheers, Bob Bolton Pa. Associators
              Message 6 of 26 , Mar 1 3:09 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                ...notebook?
                Cheers,
                Bob Bolton
                Pa. Associators



                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Sgt42RHR@... wrote:
                >
                > Thank you for your response. Since this man was a Sjt., and since he was
                > carrying a pen in a case, I wondered if it might be a small pocket book of
                > paper for taking notes. I wonder, if that had been the article in
                > question, how would it have been described?
                >
                > Again, thanks for your reply.
                >
                > Cheers,
                > John
                >
                > John M. Johnston
                > There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness. Dave Barry
                >
                >
                > In a message dated 3/1/2010 5:34:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,
                > gstheberge@... writes:
                >
                > a man's wallet, especially an embroidered cloth wallet (like a modern
                > wallet for carrying money and credit cards, not to be confused with a "market
                > wallet") was often referred to as a pocketbook.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Mike E
                Not to be a smart-alec, but I know there s been discussion as to which style was pc. Was there a consensus, and who offers one for sale? Mike
                Message 7 of 26 , Mar 1 3:54 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Not to be a smart-alec, but I know there's been discussion as to which style was pc. Was there a consensus, and who offers one for sale?

                  Mike

                  --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bolton1812" <ebolton123@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > ...knapsack?
                  > Cheers,
                  > Bob Bolton
                  > Pa. Associators
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Allow me to pose a question, regarding this item, as applies to us modern reenactors. What I carry in mine are modern wallet, car keys, 18th Cent eyeglasses, breath mints (to talk with the public), a pocket knife, some sinew, and a small Bible. Since I am reluctant to leave especially the wallet and keys behind, in my tent (not that I don't trust reencators, I don't trust the public), what shall I do with them?
                  > > YHS,
                  > > Mike Eckhart
                  > > Cpl., 24th Conn Militia
                  > > (who has a home-made, hand-sewn, leather strapped, antler buttoned, brown oilcloth, haversack)
                  > >
                  >
                • Todd Post
                  Mike, Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet. Cheers, Todd Post 2d Virginia Regiment
                  Message 8 of 26 , Mar 1 8:19 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Mike,

                    Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet.

                    Cheers,
                    Todd Post
                    2d Virginia Regiment
                    www.secondvirginia.org

                    "The heroism and gallantry of the second Virginia regiment I cannot help particularly mentioning; they would do honour to any country in the world. It is universally believed they behaved the best of any troops in the field."
                    -- Virginia Gazette, October 17, 1777

                    facebook.com/SecondVirginia
                    twitter.com/SecondVirginia
                    youtube.com/2dVirginiaRegiment
                    flickr.com/photos/SecondVirginia

                    On Mar 1, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Mike E wrote:

                    > Not to be a smart-alec, but I know there's been discussion as to which style was pc. Was there a consensus, and who offers one for sale?
                    >
                    > Mike
                  • bdodgeweaver
                    ... Mike - Roy s kit for a plain haversack (no GR/Broad Arrow stamp) is $12. It s the cheap and authentic - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
                    Message 9 of 26 , Mar 1 10:12 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Todd Post <todd.post2@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Mike,
                      >
                      > Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet.
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > Todd Post
                      > 2d Virginia Regiment
                      > www.secondvirginia.org
                      >
                      >
                      Mike - Roy's kit for a plain haversack (no "GR/Broad Arrow" stamp) is $12. It's the cheap and authentic - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
                    • gffranks3
                      Mike et al., I highly recommend Roy Najecki s haversacks. I bought the kit and enjoyed creating the finished haversack from it. Everything you need plus
                      Message 10 of 26 , Mar 2 4:17 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Mike et al.,

                        I highly recommend Roy Najecki's haversacks.

                        I bought the kit and enjoyed creating the finished haversack from it. Everything you need plus excellent instructions and documentation.

                        Cheers,

                        Geo. Franks, Hatter
                        http://cockedhats.com
                      • Mike E
                        Should have made it a little clearer. One person suggested a knapsack for carrying the 21st century items. As I stated, I have a good haversack, in the
                        Message 11 of 26 , Mar 2 1:35 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Should have made it a little clearer. One person suggested a knapsack for carrying the 21st century items. As I stated, I have a good haversack, in the approximate dimensions, that I had handsewn. When did the knapsack come into vogue for the Continental soldier? I have one I put together copying the 1776 Sketchbook but I think people have issues with it.

                          Mike

                          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdodgeweaver" <BDodgeWeaver@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Todd Post <todd.post2@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Mike,
                          > >
                          > > Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet.
                          > >
                          > > Cheers,
                          > > Todd Post
                          > > 2d Virginia Regiment
                          > > www.secondvirginia.org
                          > >
                          > >
                          > Mike - Roy's kit for a plain haversack (no "GR/Broad Arrow" stamp) is $12. It's the cheap and authentic - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
                          >
                        • bolton1812
                          Mike, As to style...depends on your impression. A single bag style is really brainless to make...kinda like a slightly oversized haversack (OMG that word)
                          Message 12 of 26 , Mar 2 3:43 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Mike,
                            As to style...depends on your impression. A single bag style is really brainless to make...kinda like a slightly oversized haversack (OMG that word) with straps.
                            Cheers,
                            Bob Bolton
                            Pa. Associators

                            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Not to be a smart-alec, but I know there's been discussion as to which style was pc. Was there a consensus, and who offers one for sale?
                            >
                            > Mike
                            >
                            > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bolton1812" <ebolton123@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > ...knapsack?
                            > > Cheers,
                            > > Bob Bolton
                            > > Pa. Associators
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Allow me to pose a question, regarding this item, as applies to us modern reenactors. What I carry in mine are modern wallet, car keys, 18th Cent eyeglasses, breath mints (to talk with the public), a pocket knife, some sinew, and a small Bible. Since I am reluctant to leave especially the wallet and keys behind, in my tent (not that I don't trust reencators, I don't trust the public), what shall I do with them?
                            > > > YHS,
                            > > > Mike Eckhart
                            > > > Cpl., 24th Conn Militia
                            > > > (who has a home-made, hand-sewn, leather strapped, antler buttoned, brown oilcloth, haversack)
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • bolton1812
                            Mike, I guess that would have been me. I wasn t suggesting a knapsack for 21st c. items, rather, put your 21st c. items in your knapsack. A smallish cloth
                            Message 13 of 26 , Mar 2 3:57 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Mike,
                              I guess that would have been me. I wasn't suggesting a knapsack "for" 21st c. items, rather, put your 21st c. items in your knapsack. A smallish cloth or leather bag tied securely and tucked into a corner of your knapsack should hold your modern needs.
                              I guess it really depends on how you use your gear. If you need your haversack for food, use the k-sack for your keys, etc., as I mentioned. If you don't eat from your haversack, then it really does'nt matter which conveyance you use(?).
                              Cheers,
                              Bob Bolton
                              Pa. Associators


                              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mike E" <meck1776@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Should have made it a little clearer. One person suggested a knapsack for carrying the 21st century items. As I stated, I have a good haversack, in the approximate dimensions, that I had handsewn. When did the knapsack come into vogue for the Continental soldier? I have one I put together copying the 1776 Sketchbook but I think people have issues with it.
                              >
                              > Mike
                              >
                              > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdodgeweaver" <BDodgeWeaver@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Todd Post <todd.post2@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Mike,
                              > > >
                              > > > Roy Najecki sells a good haversack in either kit or finished form, complete with documentation packet.
                              > > >
                              > > > Cheers,
                              > > > Todd Post
                              > > > 2d Virginia Regiment
                              > > > www.secondvirginia.org
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > Mike - Roy's kit for a plain haversack (no "GR/Broad Arrow" stamp) is $12. It's the cheap and authentic - Thad Weaver, German Rt.
                              > >
                              >
                            • Todd Post
                              Mike, ... I don t think it s a matter of knapsacks becoming into vogue for the Continental soldier , in fact I think the point has been made in this whole
                              Message 14 of 26 , Mar 2 7:25 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Mike,

                                > Should have made it a little clearer. One person suggested a knapsack for carrying the 21st century items. As I stated, I have a good haversack, in the approximate dimensions, that I had handsewn. When did the knapsack come into vogue for the Continental soldier? I have one I put together copying the 1776 Sketchbook but I think people have issues with it.

                                I don't think it's a matter of knapsacks becoming "into vogue for the Continental soldier", in fact I think the point has been made in this whole discussion that Continentals were more likely to have a knapsack then they were a haversack.

                                For the 2d Virginia Regiment, they were issuing cloth to make knapsacks within two months of formation (while new companies continued to roll into Williamsburg) as mentioned in the regiment's orderly book: "...“all the Officers of the 2nd Regiment are Immediately to get themselves in Readiness about Compleating their men with all the necessarys... knapsacks...Haversacks, or any other Necessarys.”" The daybook of the Virginia Public Store documents the cloth issued for this purpose: "To 73 yards Oznabr. Dilvd Capt Taliaferro for Napsacks @ 1/6"

                                You do have to be careful with "Sketchbook '76" as like with the Book of the Continental Soldier, while it was leading edge for its time, some of the information has been debunked. For instance, one of the knapsacks in there is actually a Federal period militia knapsack, not a Revolutionary War one.

                                Cheers,
                                Todd Post
                                2d Virginia Regiment
                                www.secondvirginia.org

                                "The heroism and gallantry of the second Virginia regiment I cannot help particularly mentioning; they would do honour to any country in the world. It is universally believed they behaved the best of any troops in the field."
                                -- Virginia Gazette, October 17, 1777

                                facebook.com/SecondVirginia
                                twitter.com/SecondVirginia
                                youtube.com/2dVirginiaRegiment
                                flickr.com/photos/SecondVirginia
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.