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Re: American Revolution Survey

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  • raynersteve
    Gentlemen; Depositions of Dr. John Warren, Daniel Scott and Frederick Ridgely, respecting the Arsenick intermixed among the Medicines left by the British at
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
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      Gentlemen;

      "Depositions of Dr. John Warren, Daniel Scott and Frederick Ridgely, respecting the Arsenick intermixed among the Medicines left by the British at Boston

      Page v5:952

      DEPOSITION OF DANIEL SCOTT.

      Watertown, April 9, 1776.

      Being ordered by the Director-General of the Continental Hospital to look over and take charge of the medicines left by the Ministerial Army in the Hospital in Boston, and being called upon by the honourable Council of this Province to give information of sundry medicines found in a room improved as a medicine-room in the house formerly improved as a Work-House in Boston, supposed to be poisoned, I do declare, on examination, that there was promiscuously scattered over the floor of said room, in a mixed manner, a quantity of medicine, of various kinds; and over a part of the most valuable was strewed a quantity of white and yellow arsenick, as I suppose about twenty pounds weight, (as I did, with the assistance of Doctor Frederick Ridgely, take up eighteen pounds.) The medicines which were unhurt by the arsenick, I suppose, may amount in value to about forty pounds, lawful money; and those which were rendered useless, I suppose, to about twenty; the latter of which I have in charge, and am determined, as soon as opportunity will allow, to bury, to prevent their being made any use of in future.

      DANIEL SCOTT.

      Colony of MASSACHUSETTS-BAY, April 9, 1776:

      Daniel Scott appeared and made solemn oath to the truth of the above Declaration by him subscribed.

      Before MOSES GILL,

      Justice of the Peace through the Colony"
      http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/cgi-bin/amarch/getdoc.pl?/var/lib/philologic/databases/amarch/.14613

      "Depositions of Dr. John Warren, Daniel Scott and Frederick Ridgely, respecting the Arsenick intermixed among the Medicines left by the British at Boston

      Page v5:952

      DEPOSITION OF FREDERICK RIDGELY.

      Watertown, April 9, 1776.

      I being ordered to assist in taking an account of the medicines left in the town of Boston by the Ministerial Troops, and now being called before the honourable Council of this Province to give information of some of them which were said to be poisoned, do declare, that, on examining the medicines in a house that had been occupied by the Ministerial Troops as an Hospital, (but formerly improved as a Work-House,) there was a considerable quantity of valuable articles promiscuously scattered over the floor; among a part of which was about twenty weight of arsenick intermixed, which rendered them useless; therefore, that part of them was omitted, which Doctor Daniel Scott said he would take the necessary care of.

      FREDERICK RIDGELY.

      Colony of MASSACHUSETTES-BAY, April 9, 1776:

      Frederick Ridgely appeared and made solemn oath to the truth of the above Declaration by him subscribed.

      Before MOSES GILL,

      Justice of the Peace through the Colony."
      http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/cgi-bin/amarch/getdoc.pl?/var/lib/philologic/databases/amarch/.14614

      "Committee on the Deposition of Dr. John Warren, who discovered Arsenick among the Medicines left by the British in Boston. [1776-04-09] [S4-V5-p1269] [Document Details][Complete Volume]

      Committee on the Deposition of Dr. John Warren, who discovered Arsenick among the Medicines left by the British in Boston

      Page v5:1269

      Deposition of Dr. John Warren, who testifies and says: That on or about the 29th day of March last past, went into the Work-House of the Town of Boston, lately improved as an Hospital by the British troops stationed in said town, and upon examining into the state of a large quantity of Medicine there by them left, (particularly in one room, supposed to have been by them used as a medicinal storeroom,) he found a great variety of medicinal articles lying upon the floor, some of which were contained and secured in papers, whilst others were scattered upon the floor loose. Amongst these medicines observed small quantities of what he supposed was white and yellow arsenick intermixed; and then received Information from Dr. Samuel Scott, that he had taken up a large quantity of said arsenick, from over and amongst the medicine, and had collected It chiefly in large lumps, and secured it in a vessel. Upon receiving this information, desired him to let him view the arsenick; with which he complied, and judge it to amount to about the quantity of twelve or fourteen pounds. Being much surprised by this extraordinary intelligence, he more minutely examined the medicine on the floor, and found them to be chiefly capital articles, and those most generally in great demand; and judging them to be rendered entirely unfit for use, he advised Dr. Scott to let them remain, and by no means meddle with them, as he thought the utmost hazard would attend the using them. They were accordingly suffered to remain, and no account was taken of them."

      Read, and Ordered, That the above Deposition be committed to Samuel Holten, Esq., with Mr. Whiting and Mr. Freeman."
      http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/cgi-bin/amarch/getdoc.pl?/var/lib/philologic/databases/amarch/.15211

      Best Regards,

      Steve Rayner

      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bcortez98_2" <bcortez98_2@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > If you like I could dig up the documentation. I just read about it (I think it was in) "Medical Men at the Siege of Boston". There's been soooooo much medical research I've been doing over the past few months, I'd have to dig through my notes....but it's there if I need to list the bibs for anyone.
      >
      > The poisoning of the medical supplies is documented in numerous places, one of which is in "Medical Men at the Siege of Boston (ISBN: 00-87169-098-5)", pp 152, which states, "...of the more valuable medicines left behind by Howe's staff were mixed with arsenic and thus useless" (with a footnote of "Deposition of John Warren, April 3, 1776, reproduced in Warren, 'John Warren', pp 74-75. See also Force, Archives, 4th ser., 5: cc 951-952".)
      >
      > Whereas the smallpox spreading is kinda spread across bits and pieces of different documents, that you have to piece together. Washington and Warren suspected it based upon the amount of infected smallpox patients in Cambridge once the British troops left the city. As there were none prior to the occupation.
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "mbrmanning2" <michael.manning@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bcortez98_2" <bcortez98_2@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I'll bet he doesn't even know . . . the British were . . . poisoning the medical supplies in the Hospitals, intentionally spreading smallpox to the retreating citizens, shall I go on? Talk about know knowing or understanding the birth of our nation, or the sacrifices our forefathers endured for that which he takes for granted.
      > > >
      > >
      > > Please pardon my skepticism but poisoning of medical supplies and intentional spreading of smallpox strikes me as contemporary propaganda along the lines of Ben Franklin's hoax about bales of scalps sent to King George. Alternatively their origins might be a flight of 19th century fantasy of the sort that turned Simon Girty into a monster damned to Hell (as in "The Devil and Daniel Webster").
      > >
      > > Is there any reliable documentation to support these claims?
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > > Mike Manning
      > >
      >
    • Ron Carnegie
      Elizabeth Fenn certainly gives a different take on this in the book Pox Americana which is specifically about the Epidemic of 1775-82. She agrees that the
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 3, 2009
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        Elizabeth Fenn certainly gives a different take on this in the book Pox
        Americana which is specifically about the Epidemic of 1775-82. She agrees
        that the disease increases following the evacuation of Boston, but argues
        that it was already more common amongst the New Englanders than the British
        soldiers. She also states that Washington knew the evacuation might
        increase the spread of the illness, not from British chicanery, but simply
        by losing control of people coming and going into an infected city. There
        is no mention in her book of any action to spread the disease, with the
        possible exception of evacuating some destitute individuals who may or may
        not have been infected, and generally obstructing Washington's attempts to
        control who came out or went into the city.



        Primary sources stating that Washington and Warren suspect
        British villainy of course doesn't prove that it was. All it proves it that
        they suspected it. Of course it doesn't disprove it either. That is one of
        the challenges of primary documentation, it is always affected by the biases
        of the people writing it, and often doesn't have the advantage of a fuller
        understanding that hindsight gives. This certainly doesn't mean it should
        be discounted, every type of documentation has its strengths and weakness,
        and for most things I prefer primary.



        I will also add, because I try to be a pretty fair historian, and I have
        no irons in this fire, I am not pleased with Fenn's footnotes. It isn't
        always clear what leads her to say what she does. She mentions Washington's
        fears but doesn't document how she knows he had them, with the possible
        exception of a quote she gives by someone else that refers to trying to
        clean the city of Small Pox. I am not certain I would consider her work to
        be definitive on this subject







        "I'm your huckleberry"

        Ron Carnegie
        r.carnegie@...

        From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        bcortez98_2
        Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:02 PM
        To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Revlist] Re: American Revolution Survey






        If you like I could dig up the documentation. I just read about it (I think
        it was in) "Medical Men at the Siege of Boston". There's been soooooo much
        medical research I've been doing over the past few months, I'd have to dig
        through my notes....but it's there if I need to list the bibs for anyone.

        The poisoning of the medical supplies is documented in numerous places, one
        of which is in "Medical Men at the Siege of Boston (ISBN: 00-87169-098-5)",
        pp 152, which states, "...of the more valuable medicines left behind by
        Howe's staff were mixed with arsenic and thus useless" (with a footnote of
        "Deposition of John Warren, April 3, 1776, reproduced in Warren, 'John
        Warren', pp 74-75. See also Force, Archives, 4th ser., 5: cc 951-952".)

        Whereas the smallpox spreading is kinda spread across bits and pieces of
        different documents, that you have to piece together. Washington and Warren
        suspected it based upon the amount of infected smallpox patients in
        Cambridge once the British troops left the city. As there were none prior to
        the occupation.

        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
        "mbrmanning2" <michael.manning@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> ,
        "bcortez98_2" <bcortez98_2@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I'll bet he doesn't even know . . . the British were . . . poisoning the
        medical supplies in the Hospitals, intentionally spreading smallpox to the
        retreating citizens, shall I go on? Talk about know knowing or understanding
        the birth of our nation, or the sacrifices our forefathers endured for that
        which he takes for granted.
        > >
        >
        > Please pardon my skepticism but poisoning of medical supplies and
        intentional spreading of smallpox strikes me as contemporary propaganda
        along the lines of Ben Franklin's hoax about bales of scalps sent to King
        George. Alternatively their origins might be a flight of 19th century
        fantasy of the sort that turned Simon Girty into a monster damned to Hell
        (as in "The Devil and Daniel Webster").
        >
        > Is there any reliable documentation to support these claims?
        >
        > Regards,
        > Mike Manning
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • mike
        ... Smallpox had begun to spread around the Boston area in 1774. It would take merely a single infected individual to reach epidemic proportions within a
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 4, 2009
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          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Carnegie" <r.carnegie@...> wrote:
          >
          > Elizabeth Fenn certainly gives a different take on this in the book Pox Americana which is specifically about the Epidemic of 1775-82. She agrees that the disease increases following the evacuation of Boston, but argues that it was already more common amongst the New Englanders than the British soldiers.


          Smallpox had begun to spread around the Boston area in 1774. It would take merely a single infected individual to reach epidemic proportions within a besieged town.


          > ... She mentions Washington's fears but doesn't document how she knows he had them,


          Dunno if this is what Fenn bases her conclusion on but, in general orders for 13 March, 1776, Washington says, "As the enemy with a malicious assiduity, have spread the infection of the smallpox through all parts of the town, ...."


          > I am not certain I would consider her work to be definitive on this subject.


          To me, the value of Fenn's book lies in her explanation of the pathology of the disease.

          Mike Barbieri
          Whitcomb's Corps
        • mike
          ... The statements here indicate that the Gits used the arsenic to render the medicines unusable rather than to poison the Americans. They simply threw the
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 4, 2009
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            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "raynersteve" <steverayner@...> wrote:
            >
            > Gentlemen;
            >
            > "Depositions of Dr. John Warren, Daniel Scott and Frederick Ridgely, respecting the Arsenick intermixed among the Medicines left by the British at Boston ...
            >


            The statements here indicate that the Gits used the arsenic to render the medicines unusable rather than to poison the Americans. They simply threw the medications on the floor and dumped the poison on top of 'em. It would seem that if they meant to poison the next occupiers that they would have mixed the arsenic in with the medications and left them neat and orderly.

            I'm curious if there are any primary documents from the Git side that point to deliberately trying to spread smallpox and/or poisoning the Americans when they took over the town. As Ron said, you might suspect a bit of prejudice in some American statements.

            Mike Barbieri
            Whitcomb's Corps
          • raynersteve
            Gentlemen; Massachusetts Third Provincial Congress and Committee of Safety: Saturday, June 3, 1775... Ordered, that Col. Palmer, Col. Davis, Mr. Glover,
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 4, 2009
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              Gentlemen;

              Massachusetts Third Provincial Congress and Committee of Safety:

              "Saturday, June 3, 1775...
              Ordered, that Col. Palmer, Col. Davis, Mr. Glover, Deacon Gould and Mr. Webster, be a committee to consider a resolve of the committee of safety, respecting a person in Brookline, who is broke out with the small pox, and that they sit forthwith." [p.293.]

              Whereas, a person is now broke out with the small pox, at Brookline, on the road between Cambridge and Roxbury, whereby the public in general, and the camps in particular, will be greatly endangered, if said person is suffered to remain in said house:

              Therefore, Resolved, That said person be immediately removed to the house of Ebenezer Smith in Little Cambridge, wherein the small pox has lately been; and that the selectmen of Brookline are hereby directed to remove said person to said house, in the most careful manner, at the expence of said town of Brookline; and the selectmen of of Cambridge are hereby directed to receive said person into said Smith's house." p. 294.

              "Tuesday, June 27, 1775...
              Ordered, That the committee appointed to provide hospitals for the army, be directed to provide another hospital, to be appropriated solely for such of the army as may be taken with the small pox, and to consider what measures can be taken to prevent the spreading of that distemper, and that Dr. Rand, and Doct. foster, be added to the committee." p. 406.

              "Friday, June 30, 1775...
              The committee appointed to consider some measures to prevent the spreading of the small pox, were directed to sit forthwith." p. 423.

              "Tuesday, July 4, 1775...
              Several privates in the Cambridge camp were last week taken down with the small pox, but we have great reason to hope, that the precautions taken on this occurrence, will, by the divine blessing, prevent the spreading of that distemper in the camp." p. 448.

              "Thursday, July 13, 1775...
              And furthermore, the said committee are hereby empowered to make such further provision for the reception, sustenance, and support of the poor of Boston and Charlestown as have, or may come out of said towns, as may appear to be necessary for their comfortable subsistence, according to the intention of Congress, taking all imaginable care to guard against the infection of small pox, by persons coming out of the town of Boston, and any other means whatever." p. 499.

              Committee of Safety.

              "June 17, 1775...
              The following was voted to be sent to Mr. John Badger, viz.:

              Sir: - As the safety of the colony demands that any person or persons suspected of having the small pox, be immediately placed in such place as may prevent its spreading in said army, and your house is thought proper for the purpose, you are directed hereby immediately to quit said house, that the person now suspected may be placed therein." p. 570.

              "June 19, 1775...
              Ordered, That Doct. Issac Foster be, and he hereby is directed, to take up and improve as hospitals, so many houses in Menotomy, as he may find necessary for the safety of the sik and wounded of the colony army, and that he employ such person or persons as may be necessary to carry such provisions and other necessaries as may be wanted for the use of the aforesaid sick and wounded; and further, that he take such precautions, respecting the small pox hospital, as may be necessary for the prevention of the spreading of that epidemical disorder in the camp or elsewhere." p. 571-72.

              "June 28, 1775...
              This committee being greatly alarmed at the danger of the small pox spreading in the American army, which, should it take place, we fear may be attended with very fatal consequences to this colony and continent: therefore, Resolved, that it be earnestly recommended to the honorable Congess, to take such speedy and effectual measures, to prevent a communication of that very dangerous and distressing disemper, from the small pox hospital, to the army, or to the inhabitants of this colony, as to them in their wisdom my seem meet." p. 582.
              "The Journals of each Provincial Congress of Massachusetts in 1774 and 1775, and of the Committee of Safety..." Dutton and Wentworth, Boston. 1838. [Google Book Search.]

              Best Regards,

              Steve Rayner

              > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bcortez98_2" <bcortez98_2@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > If you like I could dig up the documentation. I just read about it (I think it was in) "Medical Men at the Siege of Boston". There's been soooooo much medical research I've been doing over the past few months, I'd have to dig through my notes....but it's there if I need to list the bibs for anyone.
              > >
              > > The poisoning of the medical supplies is documented in numerous places, one of which is in "Medical Men at the Siege of Boston (ISBN: 00-87169-098-5)", pp 152, which states, "...of the more valuable medicines left behind by Howe's staff were mixed with arsenic and thus useless" (with a footnote of "Deposition of John Warren, April 3, 1776, reproduced in Warren, 'John Warren', pp 74-75. See also Force, Archives, 4th ser., 5: cc 951-952".)
              > >
              > > Whereas the smallpox spreading is kinda spread across bits and pieces of different documents, that you have to piece together. Washington and Warren suspected it based upon the amount of infected smallpox patients in Cambridge once the British troops left the city. As there were none prior to the occupation.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "mbrmanning2" <michael.manning@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bcortez98_2" <bcortez98_2@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > I'll bet he doesn't even know . . . the British were . . . poisoning the medical supplies in the Hospitals, intentionally spreading smallpox to the retreating citizens, shall I go on? Talk about know knowing or understanding the birth of our nation, or the sacrifices our forefathers endured for that which he takes for granted.
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > > Please pardon my skepticism but poisoning of medical supplies and intentional spreading of smallpox strikes me as contemporary propaganda along the lines of Ben Franklin's hoax about bales of scalps sent to King George. Alternatively their origins might be a flight of 19th century fantasy of the sort that turned Simon Girty into a monster damned to Hell (as in "The Devil and Daniel Webster").
              > > >
              > > > Is there any reliable documentation to support these claims?
              > > >
              > > > Regards,
              > > > Mike Manning
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Ron Carnegie
              I agree with you, and would argue that understanding that pathology makes it obvious that what happened could easily just be the natural course of the disease.
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 4, 2009
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                I agree with you, and would argue that understanding that pathology makes it
                obvious that what happened could easily just be the natural course of the
                disease.





                "I'm your huckleberry"

                Ron Carnegie
                r.carnegie@...

                From: Revlist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Revlist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                mike
                Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 6:40 AM
                To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Revlist] Re: American Revolution Survey





                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Revlist%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ron
                Carnegie" <r.carnegie@...> wrote:
                >
                > Elizabeth Fenn certainly gives a different take on this in the book Pox
                Americana which is specifically about the Epidemic of 1775-82. She agrees
                that the disease increases following the evacuation of Boston, but argues
                that it was already more common amongst the New Englanders than the British
                soldiers.

                Smallpox had begun to spread around the Boston area in 1774. It would take
                merely a single infected individual to reach epidemic proportions within a
                besieged town.

                > ... She mentions Washington's fears but doesn't document how she knows he
                had them,

                Dunno if this is what Fenn bases her conclusion on but, in general orders
                for 13 March, 1776, Washington says, "As the enemy with a malicious
                assiduity, have spread the infection of the smallpox through all parts of
                the town, ...."

                > I am not certain I would consider her work to be definitive on this
                subject.

                To me, the value of Fenn's book lies in her explanation of the pathology of
                the disease.

                Mike Barbieri
                Whitcomb's Corps





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Anthony McCabe
                To propogate the  myth that the rebellion was all down to gievences over taxes, & that all the colonists flew to arms in a sort of  .nationalist up
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 5, 2009
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                  To propogate the  myth that the rebellion was all down to gievences over taxes, & that all the colonists flew to arms in a sort of  " .nationalist up rising  "  against Great Britain, that the out come was a fore gone conclusion , that one side was so tyrannical  the other so pure & noble , in short the idealogical under pinnings of the USA must continue  to spout this nonsence in spite of the fact that American have errected a far great tyranny over their heads with a supreme court .

                  --- On Thu, 3/12/09, GobbelyG <rss2b@...> wrote:


                  From: GobbelyG <rss2b@...>
                  Subject: [Revlist] Re: American Revolution Survey
                  To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, 3 December, 2009, 22:48


                   





                  --- In Revlist@yahoogroups .com, Anthony McCabe <anthonymccabe@ ...> wrote:
                  > What non partisan ?
                  > its time to brainwash the next generation of youngsters.

                  Please elaborate.











                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • mike
                  ... If there is in each State a court of final jurisdiction, there may be as many different final determinations on the same point as there are courts. There
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 5, 2009
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                    --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Anthony McCabe <anthonymccabe@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > To propogate the  myth that the rebellion was all down to gievences over taxes, & that all the colonists flew to arms in a sort of  " .nationalist up rising  "  against Great Britain, that the out come was a fore gone conclusion , that one side was so tyrannical  the other so pure & noble , in short the idealogical under pinnings of the USA must continue  to spout this nonsence in spite of the fact that American have errected a far great tyranny over their heads with a supreme court .


                    "If there is in each State a court of final jurisdiction, there may be as many different final determinations on the same point as there are courts. There are endless diversities in the opinions of men. We often see not only different courts but the judges of the came court differing from each other. To avoid the confusion which would unavoidably result from the contradictory decisions of a number of independent judicatories, all nations have found it necessary to establish one court paramount to the rest, possessing a general superintendence, and authorized to settle and declare in the last resort a uniform rule of civil justice."

                    "Federalist Papers" No. 22--written by Alexander Hamilton.

                    Mike Barbieri
                    Whitcomb's Corps
                  • jackfortune
                    Gits- Just remind me, I can t put my hand on the reference for contemporary use of that term. JF
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 6, 2009
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                      Gits- Just remind me, I can't put my hand on the reference for contemporary use of that term.

                      JF

                      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <ottercreek@...> wrote:

                      > The statements here indicate that the Gits used the arsenic to render the medicines unusable rather than to poison the Americans.
                    • GobbelyG
                      And what exactly about a survey exploring American adults knowledge (or lack thereof) of basic historical information about the American Revolution inspired
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 6, 2009
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                        And what exactly about a survey exploring American adults' knowledge (or lack thereof) of basic historical information about the American Revolution inspired these fascinating observations?


                        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Anthony McCabe <anthonymccabe@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > To propogate the  myth that the rebellion was all down to gievences over taxes, & that all the colonists flew to arms in a sort of  " .nationalist up rising  "  against Great Britain, that the out come was a fore gone conclusion , that one side was so tyrannical  the other so pure & noble , in short the idealogical under pinnings of the USA must continue  to spout this nonsence in spite of the fact that American have errected a far great tyranny over their heads with a supreme court .
                        >
                        > --- On Thu, 3/12/09, GobbelyG <rss2b@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > From: GobbelyG <rss2b@...>
                        > Subject: [Revlist] Re: American Revolution Survey
                        > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Thursday, 3 December, 2009, 22:48
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups .com, Anthony McCabe <anthonymccabe@ ...> wrote:
                        > > What non partisan ?
                        > > its time to brainwash the next generation of youngsters.
                        >
                        > Please elaborate.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
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