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RE: [Revlist] Re: What is "Tow-Row-Dow"?

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  • Todd Kuntz
    ... Yes, it would be interesting and very helpful to find documentation this was actually implemented. I don t have that yet. ... Again, yes, we are left
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 31, 2008
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      > Good Evening Todd;
      >
      > Thank you for the very helpful details and observations.
      >
      > It would be of interest to know if the meeting in 1779, resulted in any
      > action being taken to implement the signals. We learned in study of the
      > Norfolk, for instance, that in the elapse of years between 1759 and 1768,
      > they had not actually used the system that they so strongly urged.

      Yes, it would be interesting and very helpful to find documentation
      this was actually implemented. I don't have that yet.

      >
      > The terms used in the statement in the quoted text are rather vague in
      > this respect:
      >
      > "The above signals of movement and firings, by the beat of the drum, are
      > agreeable to the result of the field officers, convened by General Knox's
      > orders, at his quarters, in 1779, to form a plan for maneuvering a
      > regiment with field pieces."
      >
      > It seemed odd that the language is not more assertive of the signals being
      > actually used. It would have been reassuring if the author had used words
      > to the effect of "adopted," or "used in the late war" or that Knox ordered
      > them to be put to use, etc. It sort of leaves us hanging there wondering
      > if the manuscript had lain dormant.

      Again, yes, we are left hanging. Hopefully someone else has an
      earlier copy of the manual (I am sure it must have been printed in multiple
      editions) which may provide some additional information or a journal or
      orderly book and will share.

      > It might be worth our while to see if we can find any suggestion in orders
      > to the Continental Artillery, or even a casual mention in a period
      > account, that might suggest that a system of signals was used during the
      > American Revolution. That would be very helpful.
      >
      > The best way I can describe my reservations (and being far from a von
      > Steuben scholar) is that after all the historical red herrings we've seen
      > regarding complex systems of drum signals for the Infantry, von Steuben's
      > regulation lists only a handful. Stevens' system seems a comparatively
      > complex plan.

      True. What I can say, however, is this is one of the least complex
      systems I have come across. IF it was used, it certainly is possible that
      vSteuben tossed it for any number of reasons and was not accepted into his
      Regulations.

      > I understand what you say about comparing sources such as Pickering's
      > comments on the British Army at Boston, to gain insights on how the
      > British were practicing the 1764 there. In the same way it is valuable to
      > examine what Pickering might have misapprehended about the 1764 from what
      > he saw in the Boston garrison. It's not so much a matter of a single time-
      > line as it is a web of connections.
      >
      > Thank you again for your helpful insights; I greatly appreciate your time
      > and effort.
      >
      > Best Regards,
      > Steve Rayner

      And I remain, your most Humble & Obt Sv't --
      Sjt. T.Kuntz
      1st Co'y, Warner's Regiment
    • Steve Rayner
      Good Morning Todd; It sounds as though we are thinking along the same lines, Todd. I’m in the George Washington Papers and Google Book Search a lot it seems
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 1, 2008
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        Good Morning Todd;

        It sounds as though we are thinking along the same lines, Todd. I�m in the George Washington Papers and Google Book Search a lot it seems recently (still looking for references to dancing and music in camp!), so if I find anything that might help with this, I�ll be sure to pass it along. Meanwhile,

        Best Regards,

        Steve Rayner

        To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
        From: kuntzt@...
        Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 00:09:11 -0400
        Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: What is "Tow-Row-Dow"?




















        > Good Evening Todd;

        >

        > Thank you for the very helpful details and observations.

        >

        > It would be of interest to know if the meeting in 1779, resulted in any

        > action being taken to implement the signals. We learned in study of the

        > Norfolk, for instance, that in the elapse of years between 1759 and 1768,

        > they had not actually used the system that they so strongly urged.



        Yes, it would be interesting and very helpful to find documentation

        this was actually implemented. I don't have that yet.



        >

        > The terms used in the statement in the quoted text are rather vague in

        > this respect:

        >

        > "The above signals of movement and firings, by the beat of the drum, are

        > agreeable to the result of the field officers, convened by General Knox's

        > orders, at his quarters, in 1779, to form a plan for maneuvering a

        > regiment with field pieces."

        >

        > It seemed odd that the language is not more assertive of the signals being

        > actually used. It would have been reassuring if the author had used words

        > to the effect of "adopted," or "used in the late war" or that Knox ordered

        > them to be put to use, etc. It sort of leaves us hanging there wondering

        > if the manuscript had lain dormant.



        Again, yes, we are left hanging. Hopefully someone else has an

        earlier copy of the manual (I am sure it must have been printed in multiple

        editions) which may provide some additional information or a journal or

        orderly book and will share.



        > It might be worth our while to see if we can find any suggestion in orders

        > to the Continental Artillery, or even a casual mention in a period

        > account, that might suggest that a system of signals was used during the

        > American Revolution. That would be very helpful.

        >

        > The best way I can describe my reservations (and being far from a von

        > Steuben scholar) is that after all the historical red herrings we've seen

        > regarding complex systems of drum signals for the Infantry, von Steuben's

        > regulation lists only a handful. Stevens' system seems a comparatively

        > complex plan.



        True. What I can say, however, is this is one of the least complex

        systems I have come across. IF it was used, it certainly is possible that

        vSteuben tossed it for any number of reasons and was not accepted into his

        Regulations.



        > I understand what you say about comparing sources such as Pickering's

        > comments on the British Army at Boston, to gain insights on how the

        > British were practicing the 1764 there. In the same way it is valuable to

        > examine what Pickering might have misapprehended about the 1764 from what

        > he saw in the Boston garrison. It's not so much a matter of a single time-

        > line as it is a web of connections.

        >

        > Thank you again for your helpful insights; I greatly appreciate your time

        > and effort.

        >

        > Best Regards,

        > Steve Rayner



        And I remain, your most Humble & Obt Sv't --

        Sjt. T.Kuntz

        1st Co'y, Warner's Regiment
























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      • Patrick O'Kelley
        Howdy, ... 100 ... intent of ... the ... On the flip side, at the recent Hook battle there was a drum and fife posted behind me. After the cannon fired, and a
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
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          Howdy,

          > Having used drum/fife signals at Ti this year, I can verify that at
          100
          > yards, drums and fifes can be heard and we clearly understood the
          intent of
          > the Commander (safely behind the French Lines)to "withdraw" back to
          the
          > sally port, when gesticulations by the commander were rather unclear.

          On the flip side, at the recent Hook battle there was a drum and fife
          posted behind me. After the cannon fired, and a musketman overcharged
          his musket, neither me, nor my covering sergeant heard the commands
          from the drum and fife that was five feet away.

          Patrick O'Kelley
          goober.com@...

          What?
          Huh?
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