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Re: Grenadier Officers

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  • battlehillbob
    ... painted in America, England or elsewhere, because it seems that Grenadiers continued to wear the match case in England, but they were discontinued during
    Message 1 of 13 , May 31, 2008
      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Steve Rayner <steverayner@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hi Bob;
      >
      > That sounds really interesting! Can you tell us more about it?
      >
      > It would be especially interesting to know if the portrait was
      painted in America, England or elsewhere, because it seems that
      Grenadiers continued to wear the match case in England, but they were
      discontinued during the course of the war in America. This led to
      the match case being discontinued in 1784. I can't say for sure if
      that order was supposed to apply to the Foot Guards.
      >
      > There is the portrait of Charles Watson of the 25th, with a match
      case and fully tricked out as a Grenadier Officer, in Barthorp's book.
      >
      > There is a lot of good discussion and documentation in the Revliste
      archives on the subject of match cases.
      >
      > Best Regards,
      >
      > Steve Rayner
      >
      > ________________________________
      >Hi Steve
      I do not know who this is or what Regiment. It could be the 25th as
      you mentioned. Again Eric Schnitzer would have much more info. He may
      check this list tomorrow and comment about it so stay tuned.
      Cheers
      Bob Fry
    • Luke Fryer
      I think the source our French Grenadier unit uses for our match cases it this http://www.smokingironalterations.com/, Smoking Iron Alterations. I just looked
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 1 4:58 AM
        I think the source our French Grenadier unit uses for our match cases
        it this http://www.smokingironalterations.com/, Smoking Iron
        Alterations. I just looked at there catalog but did see it. I would
        suggest in giving them a call, I don't remember them being that
        expenise.

        -Luke Fryer
      • eric_schnitzer@nps.gov
        Based solely on known period grenadier officer portraiture, and then only on those who were decked out in their complete uniforms, including the pouch and belt
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 1 6:56 AM
          Based solely on known period grenadier officer portraiture, and then only
          on those who were decked out in their complete uniforms, including the
          pouch and belt (a minority, sadly) it appears the percentage of those
          wearing match cases may have been about 50/50. Mind you, this is only via
          the few known portraiture and artist studies of such officers, and not
          necessarily what was worn in the field, on campaign, etc etc. And as has
          been stated before, some regiments had a return of zero match cases in
          their inventory (the 24th Regiment, for example), and so its rather likely
          that their officers didn't wear them either.

          Some grenadier officers portrayed with match cases from our period:

          Lt Charles Watson, 25th Regt (Steve mentioned this)
          Lt John Hutchinson (this is the one I have which Bob Fry mentioned. I have
          a detail of it here: http://www.62ndregiment.org/officer_arms.htm)

          Interestingly, the 1792 Edward Dayes prints of the three FG regiments show
          both the privates and sergeants wearing match cases.

          I am,
          Your Most Humble Servant,
          Eric Schnitzer
          Lieutenant, 62d Regiment of Foot

          "The rebel officers' behavior is admirable; their discipline is just as good
          as though they belonged to real regiments and were real soldiers."

          --Brigadier WR von Gall to The Prince of Hessen-Hanau, Cambridge, MA, 16 March 1778








          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Steve Rayner <steverayner@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi Bob;
          >
          > That sounds really interesting! Can you tell us more about it?
          >
          > It would be especially interesting to know if the portrait was
          painted in America, England or elsewhere, because it seems that
          Grenadiers continued to wear the match case in England, but they were
          discontinued during the course of the war in America. This led to
          the match case being discontinued in 1784. I can't say for sure if
          that order was supposed to apply to the Foot Guards.
          >
          > There is the portrait of Charles Watson of the 25th, with a match
          case and fully tricked out as a Grenadier Officer, in Barthorp's book.
          >
          > There is a lot of good discussion and documentation in the Revliste
          archives on the subject of match cases.
          >
          > Best Regards,
          >
          > Steve Rayner
          >
          > ________________________________
          >Hi Steve
          I do not know who this is or what Regiment. It could be the 25th as
          you mentioned. Again Eric Schnitzer would have much more info. He may
          check this list tomorrow and comment about it so stay tuned.
          Cheers
          Bob Fry









          .



          (Embedded image moved to file: pic27896.gif)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John
          Ah, isn t it amazing how there s always an exception to the rule? Perhaps we are safe in the assumption that, more often than not, officers didn t have match
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 1 7:05 AM
            Ah, isn't it amazing how there's always an exception to the rule?
            Perhaps we are safe in the assumption that, more often than not,
            officers didn't have match cases but occasionally did?

            Thanks for everyone's thoughts.

            John


            > Greetings list
            > I have a copy of a image of a grenny officer wearing a match case on
            > his pouch belt. The source is from the Eric Schnitzer collection of
            > period images. He may have more in his collection. In this image the
            > officer is wearing his gorget, pouch, holds a fuzil, wears his sword
            > and bayonet belt over the shoulder, and has his bearskin on.
            > Cheers
            > Bob Fry
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >
          • Steve Rayner
            Hi All; Here is another view of Grenadier Officers: http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhibitions/shortVisits/animals/page10.shtml
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 1 10:44 AM
              Hi All;

              Here is another view of Grenadier Officers:

              http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhibitions/shortVisits/animals/page10.shtml

              http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhibitions/shortVisits/animals/page6.shtml

              Or, Google �National Army Museum� �Regimental Dog�

              Nice portrait of a group of Officers of the 25th Regiment of Foot in the transitional 1768 era. Two Officers of Grenadiers, both dressed for duty. Neither wears a match case.

              Perhaps nother possible way to get and idea of whether or not the match case (and other accoutrements) might be worn, is to check the writings of Officers of the regiment of interest and ask ourselves, �What would they do?�

              Best Regards,

              Steve Rayner


              To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
              From: the35thregiment@...
              Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 14:05:05 +0000
              Subject: [Revlist] Re: Grenadier Officers




















              Ah, isn't it amazing how there's always an exception to the rule?

              Perhaps we are safe in the assumption that, more often than not,

              officers didn't have match cases but occasionally did?



              Thanks for everyone's thoughts.



              John



              > Greetings list

              > I have a copy of a image of a grenny officer wearing a match case on

              > his pouch belt. The source is from the Eric Schnitzer collection of

              > period images. He may have more in his collection. In this image the

              > officer is wearing his gorget, pouch, holds a fuzil, wears his sword

              > and bayonet belt over the shoulder, and has his bearskin on.

              > Cheers

              > Bob Fry

              > >

              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              > >

              >
























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            • DelRev225th@aol.com
              Fort Ticonderoga, 250th Anniversary of the Battle of Carillon June 27 - July 8 In July 1758, British General Abercromby led an army of 16,000 British and
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 1 4:38 PM
                Fort Ticonderoga,
                250th Anniversary of the Battle of Carillon
                June 27 - July 8
                In July 1758, British General Abercromby led an army of 16,000 British and Colonial troops against a small French force of 3200 entrenched at Fort Carillon. On July 8 the forces were engaged on the heights just north of the Fort after Montcalm's forces had hastily thrown up earthwork fortifications. The Battle of Carillon lasted several hours during which time Abercromby lost over 1900 men, a third of whom were members of the 42nd Regiment of Foot, also known as the Highlanders, or the "Black Watch" Regiment. Despite being outnumbered 4 to 1, the French forces prevailed. In honor of this victory, the French erected a cross on the Battle site. 2008 is going to be the 250th Anniversary of this battle, which will be commemorated by reenactors in historic clothing, troop formations and inspections, ceremonies, battle reenactments.

                Kim W3R-USA



















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              • Joseph Harshaw
                Thanks ! Joe 2SC ... http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhibitions/shortVisits/animals/page10 .shtml ...
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 1 6:08 PM
                  Thanks !

                  Joe 2SC


                  > [Original Message]
                  > From: Steve Rayner <steverayner@...>
                  > To: <revlist@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Date: 6/1/2008 1:46:18 PM
                  > Subject: RE: [Revlist] Re: Grenadier Officers
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi All;
                  >
                  > Here is another view of Grenadier Officers:
                  >
                  >
                  http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhibitions/shortVisits/animals/page10
                  .shtml
                  >
                  >
                  http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhibitions/shortVisits/animals/page6.
                  shtml
                  >
                  > Or, Google �National Army Museum� �Regimental Dog�
                  >
                  > Nice portrait of a group of Officers of the 25th Regiment of Foot in the
                  transitional 1768 era. Two Officers of Grenadiers, both dressed for duty.
                  Neither wears a match case.
                  >
                  > Perhaps nother possible way to get and idea of whether or not the match
                  case (and other accoutrements) might be worn, is to check the writings of
                  Officers of the regiment of interest and ask ourselves, �What would they
                  do?�
                  >
                  > Best Regards,
                  >
                  > Steve Rayner
                  >
                  >
                  > To: Revlist@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: the35thregiment@...
                  > Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2008 14:05:05 +0000
                  > Subject: [Revlist] Re: Grenadier Officers
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Ah, isn't it amazing how there's always an exception to the
                  rule?
                  >
                  > Perhaps we are safe in the assumption that, more often than not,
                  >
                  > officers didn't have match cases but occasionally did?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks for everyone's thoughts.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > John
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > Greetings list
                  >
                  > > I have a copy of a image of a grenny officer wearing a match case on
                  >
                  > > his pouch belt. The source is from the Eric Schnitzer collection of
                  >
                  > > period images. He may have more in his collection. In this image the
                  >
                  > > officer is wearing his gorget, pouch, holds a fuzil, wears his sword
                  >
                  > > and bayonet belt over the shoulder, and has his bearskin on.
                  >
                  > > Cheers
                  >
                  > > Bob Fry
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > > >
                  >
                  > >
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                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > Keep your kids safer online with Windows Live Family Safety.
                  >
                  http://www.windowslive.com/family_safety/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Ref
                  resh_family_safety_052008
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Visit the RevList Homepage, which includes a list of sutlers, RevList
                  member photos, FAQ, etc., at
                  >
                  > http://www.liming.org/revlist/ or add your own links at
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Revlist/
                  >
                  > To subscribe to Revlist, please go to the home page at
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Revlist/ and click "Join This List."
                  >
                  > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: please send a message to
                  > Revlist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > with "unsubscribe" in the subject line.Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
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