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Re: Umbrella groups?

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  • stephenguenther
    There is alot of info on those sites about recreating environments and all, but what does the Umbrella Org do for the member unit? Example: in my WW2 Umbrella
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1, 2008
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      There is alot of info on those sites about recreating environments
      and all, but what does the Umbrella Org do for the member unit?
      Example: in my WW2 Umbrella Org (5th RIB RS/MPHA) members are
      covered under an insurance policy in the event of injuries sustained
      while at a re-enactment. Some WW2 events require membership in
      certain Umbrella groups in order to attend certain events, and I see
      that with 18th C. organizationa, but nothing about insurance or
      benefits other than authenticity guidleines.

      If I can get my organization to adopt guidelines for 18th C.
      impressions, would that be acceptable, or woudl I have to be a
      member or multiple organizations?

      thanks
      steve

      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "rangerlt64" <caspar@...> wrote:
      >
      > Steve,
      >
      > Probably the best way to start answering that question is to go to
      > their web sites. Here are a few.
      >
      > www.continentalline.org/
      > www.brigade.org/
      > www.britishbrigade.org/
      > www.nwta.com/main.html
      > www.bvma.org/
      > www.geocities.com/~livinghistory/home.htm
      >
      > Jim Casco
      > Whitcomb's Corps
      >
    • bdodgeweaver
      ... sustained while at a re-enactment. Some WW2 events require membership in certain Umbrella groups in order to attend certain events, and I see that with
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1, 2008
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        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "stephenguenther"
        <stephenguenther@...> wrote:
        >
        > There is alot of info on those sites about recreating environments
        > and all, but what does the Umbrella Org do for the member unit?
        > Example: in my WW2 Umbrella Org (5th RIB RS/MPHA) members are
        > covered under an insurance policy in the event of injuries
        sustained while at a re-enactment. Some WW2 events require
        membership in certain Umbrella groups in order to attend certain
        events, and I see that with 18th C. organizationa, but nothing about
        insurance or benefits other than authenticity guidleines.
        >
        > If I can get my organization to adopt guidelines for 18th C.
        > impressions, would that be acceptable . . . or woudl I have to be
        a member or multiple organizations?
        >
        > thanks
        > steve
        >
        Dear Steve - From your comment ("If I can get my organization to
        adopt guidelines . . . "), it sounds as if you are contemplating
        starting a new unit. Personally, that sounds like a mistake, given
        the number of decent units already out there, and if you want to do
        Rev War, I'd search for some units down South and see if they fit
        your expectations. Three American units that come immediately to
        mind are the 2nd SC, 2nd NC and 2nd VA (I don't understand the "two-
        thing", but there are also a 2nd PA, 2nd NJ, 2nd NY, 2nd NH, 2nd MA,
        2nd RI, 2nd Light Dragoons, and I think a 2nd CT and 2nd MD). Some
        British and Hessian units in the South include von Bose, Anspach
        Jaegers, 4th Co. Brigade of Guards, 64th Foot, 7th Foot, and "Kings
        Own Patriots" (a fine militia group in the South that usually but
        not always potrays loyalist militia).

        As to what the umbrellas provide, that depends on the umbrella.
        Neither the British Brigade, nor The Continental Line, provide
        insurance. Membership is by unit, and the individual unit must have
        its own insurance. The benefits are (1) admission to larger events
        (many, but not all, "big" events in the East Coast require
        membership in an umbrella, usually less so in the South), and (2)
        the benefit of operating with something approaching appropriate
        scale companies and battalions. Neither of these umbrellas charge
        dues, to my understanding.

        The third large umbrella is the Brigade of the American Revolution
        ("BAR"). The BAR is older (founded in the 1960s), and provides both
        an occasional newsletter (the Courier) and a scholarly journal (the
        Dispatch). There is a lengthy inspection process - "adopting
        guidelines" is not enough. Dues are $25 per person, per year (with
        some modifications for households), and units must be at least 4
        private soldiers. Insurance coverage is provided to your group for
        BAR events, but not other events you may attend. Historically, the
        BAR has had little presence in the American Southeast.

        The general, but not universal, sentiment is that you should belong
        to an umbrella, simply because it allows one to network more
        effectively, and provides an invitation to some events. It's
        perhaps instructive that there has historically been an overlap in
        membership between the BAR and other two umbrellas mentioned.

        Hope this helps - I think if you look at some unit websites and try
        out a weekend or two (most outfits can scare up some loaner gear),
        and ask questions about how they process newbies, as a reenactor you
        may find that better than re-inventing the wheel, and very
        instructive. Good Luck -

        Thad Weaver
        German Rt.
      • stephenguenther
        I dont want to start a new unit, but I dont want to pay a fee to Charlie Co. and to 5th rangers and then a fee to a revwar unit then a revwar umbrella group -
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1, 2008
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          I dont want to start a new unit, but I dont want to pay a fee to
          Charlie Co. and to 5th rangers and then a fee to a revwar unit then
          a revwar umbrella group - thats a lot of money in fees every
          year.....,

          If the MHPA expanded into other time periods, what would it take to
          get recognized by the other organizations? We currently have
          several members that do ACW and my company Cpt. was in the BAR for
          30 years (still might be, I think).

          I just dont wanna end up paying more fees than I have to pay.
          When I get situated, I will probably stick with events in the NY/PA
          area. I may expand that are later, but right now I have a 3 yr old
          with a mild disorder and another baby due in October, so I dont
          think I will be travelling much any time soon, but I would like to
          get myself ready so that when I can , I can just jump right in....

          steve


          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdodgeweaver" <BDodgeWeaver@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "stephenguenther"
          > <stephenguenther@> wrote:
          > >
          > > There is alot of info on those sites about recreating
          environments
          > > and all, but what does the Umbrella Org do for the member unit?
          > > Example: in my WW2 Umbrella Org (5th RIB RS/MPHA) members are
          > > covered under an insurance policy in the event of injuries
          > sustained while at a re-enactment. Some WW2 events require
          > membership in certain Umbrella groups in order to attend certain
          > events, and I see that with 18th C. organizationa, but nothing
          about
          > insurance or benefits other than authenticity guidleines.
          > >
          > > If I can get my organization to adopt guidelines for 18th C.
          > > impressions, would that be acceptable . . . or woudl I have to
          be
          > a member or multiple organizations?
          > >
          > > thanks
          > > steve
          > >
          > Dear Steve - From your comment ("If I can get my organization to
          > adopt guidelines . . . "), it sounds as if you are contemplating
          > starting a new unit. Personally, that sounds like a mistake,
          given
          > the number of decent units already out there, and if you want to
          do
          > Rev War, I'd search for some units down South and see if they fit
          > your expectations. Three American units that come immediately to
          > mind are the 2nd SC, 2nd NC and 2nd VA (I don't understand
          the "two-
          > thing", but there are also a 2nd PA, 2nd NJ, 2nd NY, 2nd NH, 2nd
          MA,
          > 2nd RI, 2nd Light Dragoons, and I think a 2nd CT and 2nd MD).
          Some
          > British and Hessian units in the South include von Bose, Anspach
          > Jaegers, 4th Co. Brigade of Guards, 64th Foot, 7th Foot,
          and "Kings
          > Own Patriots" (a fine militia group in the South that usually but
          > not always potrays loyalist militia).
          >
          > As to what the umbrellas provide, that depends on the umbrella.
          > Neither the British Brigade, nor The Continental Line, provide
          > insurance. Membership is by unit, and the individual unit must
          have
          > its own insurance. The benefits are (1) admission to larger
          events
          > (many, but not all, "big" events in the East Coast require
          > membership in an umbrella, usually less so in the South), and (2)
          > the benefit of operating with something approaching appropriate
          > scale companies and battalions. Neither of these umbrellas charge
          > dues, to my understanding.
          >
          > The third large umbrella is the Brigade of the American Revolution
          > ("BAR"). The BAR is older (founded in the 1960s), and provides
          both
          > an occasional newsletter (the Courier) and a scholarly journal
          (the
          > Dispatch). There is a lengthy inspection process - "adopting
          > guidelines" is not enough. Dues are $25 per person, per year
          (with
          > some modifications for households), and units must be at least 4
          > private soldiers. Insurance coverage is provided to your group
          for
          > BAR events, but not other events you may attend. Historically,
          the
          > BAR has had little presence in the American Southeast.
          >
          > The general, but not universal, sentiment is that you should
          belong
          > to an umbrella, simply because it allows one to network more
          > effectively, and provides an invitation to some events. It's
          > perhaps instructive that there has historically been an overlap in
          > membership between the BAR and other two umbrellas mentioned.
          >
          > Hope this helps - I think if you look at some unit websites and
          try
          > out a weekend or two (most outfits can scare up some loaner gear),
          > and ask questions about how they process newbies, as a reenactor
          you
          > may find that better than re-inventing the wheel, and very
          > instructive. Good Luck -
          >
          > Thad Weaver
          > German Rt.
          >
        • ww2gamergm
          Steve: In regards to the British Brigade (BB), you would belong to a member unit, and that unit might have its own membership dues (or not, depending on how
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1, 2008
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            Steve:

            In regards to the British Brigade (BB), you would belong to a member
            unit, and that unit might have its own membership dues (or not,
            depending on how they cover their insurance bill, etc.). Your unit
            would then pay a BB membership fee of $25 a year, (plus an additional
            $1 per member, if the unit has more than 25 members - members being
            soldiers). Thus the dues for the BB are covered by your unit, either
            through part of your dues that you already paid, or by paying events -
            however they choose to pay for it. There is no additional
            membership fee directly to you.

            The BB, along with its sister organization the Continental Line (CL),
            run two or three large national events a year. In addition, your
            unit would become aware and be invitied to other regional events as
            well, being a member in good standing and thus a known quantity
            (safe, authentic, and insured). Thus the basic benefits of being a
            member unit. There are other benefits, but I am of course
            generalizing.

            If you have any further questions about joining the red team, please
            feel free to contact me offline. We are, after all, from the
            government (Crown), and only here to help.

            Best Regards,

            Jim McGaughey
            HM Marines - BB unit member (and BB trustee)

            PS - My unit includes members from the area you live. Like to
            join? :-)
          • Mike Barbieri
            ... Like the BB, the CL does not charge individual dues. Unlike the BB, it doesn t charge unit dues either. Any additional monies you would end up paying would
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 2, 2008
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              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "stephenguenther"
              <stephenguenther@...> wrote:
              >
              > I dont want to start a new unit, but I dont want to pay a fee to
              > Charlie Co. and to 5th rangers and then a fee to a revwar unit then
              > a revwar umbrella group - thats a lot of money in fees every
              > year.....,

              Like the BB, the CL does not charge individual dues. Unlike the BB,
              it doesn't charge unit dues either. Any additional monies you would
              end up paying would be to the American unit(s) you joined.

              > If the MHPA expanded into other time periods, what would it take to
              > get recognized by the other organizations? We currently have
              > several members that do ACW and my company Cpt. was in the BAR for
              > 30 years (still might be, I think).

              Like that red-coated rascal from the High-Minded marines commented
              earlier, the BAR has a rather strenuous authenticity process folks
              have to go through to belong. Note that, as Jim says, one generally
              has to belong to a unit to join the BAR although they do have a
              Civilian Class Membership but, I believe, they discourage military
              impressions in that element.

              The CL also does not have individual memberships so, you would have
              to join a unit to belong to the CL. Members of CL units automatically
              belong to the CL. Units can join the CL by being sponsored for
              membership by an existing member unit. Again, there are no costs to
              the individual other than whatever the unit has for dues/fees. The CL
              does not have as strict authenticity requirements as the BAR--uses
              peer pressure to encourage folks to improve. Before becoming full
              members, CL units are observed at events with regard to safety,
              performance, and cooperation.

              Like the BB, belonging to the CL gets you info and invitations to a
              couple national events where the BB, CL, and often the BAR gather
              together in large numbers--like migrating birds. There are also a
              number of regional events generally of medium size put on by CL and
              BB units. The other big advantage is recognition as belonging to a
              unit that has met some rather high standards.

              One last plug--visit the CL website, www.continentalline.org, and you
              can view a list of member units, most of whom have their own websites.

              Mike Barbieri
              Whitcomb's Corps
              CL Northern Dept. Coordinator

              >
              > I just dont wanna end up paying more fees than I have to pay.
              > When I get situated, I will probably stick with events in the NY/PA
              > area. I may expand that are later, but right now I have a 3 yr old
              > with a mild disorder and another baby due in October, so I dont
              > think I will be travelling much any time soon, but I would like to
              > get myself ready so that when I can , I can just jump right in....
              >
              > steve
              >
              >
              > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "bdodgeweaver" <BDodgeWeaver@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "stephenguenther"
              > > <stephenguenther@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > There is alot of info on those sites about recreating
              > environments
              > > > and all, but what does the Umbrella Org do for the member
              unit?
              > > > Example: in my WW2 Umbrella Org (5th RIB RS/MPHA) members are
              > > > covered under an insurance policy in the event of injuries
              > > sustained while at a re-enactment. Some WW2 events require
              > > membership in certain Umbrella groups in order to attend certain
              > > events, and I see that with 18th C. organizationa, but nothing
              > about
              > > insurance or benefits other than authenticity guidleines.
              > > >
              > > > If I can get my organization to adopt guidelines for 18th C.
              > > > impressions, would that be acceptable . . . or woudl I have to
              > be
              > > a member or multiple organizations?
              > > >
              > > > thanks
              > > > steve
              > > >
              > > Dear Steve - From your comment ("If I can get my organization to
              > > adopt guidelines . . . "), it sounds as if you are contemplating
              > > starting a new unit. Personally, that sounds like a mistake,
              > given
              > > the number of decent units already out there, and if you want to
              > do
              > > Rev War, I'd search for some units down South and see if they fit
              > > your expectations. Three American units that come immediately to
              > > mind are the 2nd SC, 2nd NC and 2nd VA (I don't understand
              > the "two-
              > > thing", but there are also a 2nd PA, 2nd NJ, 2nd NY, 2nd NH, 2nd
              > MA,
              > > 2nd RI, 2nd Light Dragoons, and I think a 2nd CT and 2nd MD).
              > Some
              > > British and Hessian units in the South include von Bose, Anspach
              > > Jaegers, 4th Co. Brigade of Guards, 64th Foot, 7th Foot,
              > and "Kings
              > > Own Patriots" (a fine militia group in the South that usually but
              > > not always potrays loyalist militia).
              > >
              > > As to what the umbrellas provide, that depends on the umbrella.
              > > Neither the British Brigade, nor The Continental Line, provide
              > > insurance. Membership is by unit, and the individual unit must
              > have
              > > its own insurance. The benefits are (1) admission to larger
              > events
              > > (many, but not all, "big" events in the East Coast require
              > > membership in an umbrella, usually less so in the South), and (2)
              > > the benefit of operating with something approaching appropriate
              > > scale companies and battalions. Neither of these umbrellas
              charge
              > > dues, to my understanding.
              > >
              > > The third large umbrella is the Brigade of the American
              Revolution
              > > ("BAR"). The BAR is older (founded in the 1960s), and provides
              > both
              > > an occasional newsletter (the Courier) and a scholarly journal
              > (the
              > > Dispatch). There is a lengthy inspection process - "adopting
              > > guidelines" is not enough. Dues are $25 per person, per year
              > (with
              > > some modifications for households), and units must be at least 4
              > > private soldiers. Insurance coverage is provided to your group
              > for
              > > BAR events, but not other events you may attend. Historically,
              > the
              > > BAR has had little presence in the American Southeast.
              > >
              > > The general, but not universal, sentiment is that you should
              > belong
              > > to an umbrella, simply because it allows one to network more
              > > effectively, and provides an invitation to some events. It's
              > > perhaps instructive that there has historically been an overlap
              in
              > > membership between the BAR and other two umbrellas mentioned.
              > >
              > > Hope this helps - I think if you look at some unit websites and
              > try
              > > out a weekend or two (most outfits can scare up some loaner
              gear),
              > > and ask questions about how they process newbies, as a reenactor
              > you
              > > may find that better than re-inventing the wheel, and very
              > > instructive. Good Luck -
              > >
              > > Thad Weaver
              > > German Rt.
              > >
              >
            • Jay Callaham
              ... ... The BAR also has what is known as The Garrison Regiment, which is for military members who have no unit. The idea of the Garrison Reg t
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 2, 2008
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                -------------- Original message from "Mike Barbieri" <ottercreek@...>: --------------
                > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "stephenguenther"

                <snip>

                > Like that red-coated rascal from the High-Minded marines commented
                > earlier, the BAR has a rather strenuous authenticity process folks
                > have to go through to belong. Note that, as Jim says, one generally
                > has to belong to a unit to join the BAR although they do have a
                > Civilian Class Membership but, I believe, they discourage military
                > impressions in that element.

                <snip>

                The BAR also has what is known as "The Garrison Regiment," which is for military members who have no unit. The idea of the Garrison Reg't is for individuals to have some entity with which to affiliate while looking for an existing unit to join or while raising a new one. Joining an existing unit is easier.

                The strenuousness of the inspection process doesn't have to be too difficult if the applicant unit has its act together.

                Cheers!

                Jay
                Coldm Regt
                Inspector, Southern Department, BAR

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mike Barbieri
                ... for military members who have no unit. The idea of the Garrison Reg t is for individuals to have some entity with which to affiliate while looking for an
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 2, 2008
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                  --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Callaham" <callaham@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > The BAR also has what is known as "The Garrison Regiment," which is
                  for military members who have no unit. The idea of the Garrison Reg't
                  is for individuals to have some entity with which to affiliate while
                  looking for an existing unit to join or while raising a new one.


                  Oops--forgot about that.


                  > Joining an existing unit is easier.


                  But, I'm not sure it's as much fun or as satisfying as starting a
                  unit and having it succeed (I imagine it must suck if it fails).


                  > The strenuousness of the inspection process doesn't have to be too
                  difficult if the applicant unit has its act together.


                  That's a major objective of the authenticity requirement and
                  inspection--to make sure the unit has its act together, at least in
                  regard to matierial culture. Much of the rest comes with experience.
                  And don't be shy about asking other folks for help. Most BAR members
                  are more than willing to share their knowledge.

                  Mike Barbieri
                  Whitcomb's Corps
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