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East India Company

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  • Eric Bloomquist
    Esteemed List, I wonder if anyone could suggest a good resource on the forces of the East India Company? Thank you. Eric B. King s Regt. ... Looking for last
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 27, 2008
      Esteemed List,
      I wonder if anyone could suggest a good resource on the forces of the East India Company?
      Thank you.

      Eric B.
      King's Regt.


      ---------------------------------
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • bobjinpa@comcast.net
      I passed on your request for info o a group who would know for sure -- here is an answer I got back -- When and where? The HEIC ran its own forces for about
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 28, 2008
        I passed on your request for info o a group who would know for sure -- here is an answer I got back --
        When and where? The HEIC ran its own forces for about 100 years, and they
        were distributed in three presidencies.

        If you can be more explicit with your question, I will pass it on again, and with your email address if you like.

        --
        Bob Johnson
        York PA
        There are no whole truths; all truths are half-truths. It is trying to treat them as whole truths that play the devil. Alfred North Whitehead

        -------------- Original message ----------------------
        From: Eric Bloomquist <sjteric@...>
        > Esteemed List,
        > I wonder if anyone could suggest a good resource on the forces of the East
        > India Company?
        > Thank you.
        >
        > Eric B.
        > King's Regt.
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • bvogler
        List & Eric- I suggest you look at the Osprey Men-At -Arms King George s Army 1740-1792 (2) by Stuart Reid and Paul Chappell. Check out color plate H and
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 28, 2008
          List & Eric-
          I suggest you look at the Osprey Men-At -Arms "King George's Army 1740-1792 (2)" by Stuart Reid and Paul Chappell. Check out color plate H and pp. 44-47. I know many on the List are critical of the Osprey books, but overall, IMHO, I think they are pretty decent.

          Also for some other information on the John Company's military forces, you might check __Mr. Kipling's Army: All the Queen's Men__ by Byron Farwell. It's information is more pre-WWI, but it does have several pages on ththe East India Company's forces...

          And so it goes,
          Bob V.
          "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
          And the women come out to cut up what remains,
          Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
          An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." - "The Young British Soldier" by R. Kipling


          I wonder if anyone could suggest a good resource on the forces of the East India Company?
          Thank you.

          Eric B.


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        • Christopher (Chris) Woolf
          I d be interested in any good sources too. I can only suggest Vol. IV of John Fortescue s history of the British Army for campaign info. Somewhat dated. For
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 28, 2008
            I'd be interested in any good sources too.

            I can only suggest Vol. IV of John Fortescue's history of the British
            Army for campaign info. Somewhat dated.

            For organizational details there is a couple of paragraphs in
            Featherstone's "Colonial Wars Sourcebook", but it's an expensive book
            for the small amount of into you're looking for.

            Also, for naval campaigns check out AT Mahan's classics, Major
            Operations of the Navies in the AWI and The Influence of Seapower.

            There are some accounts from the Indian point of view on-line if yuo
            google Mysore.

            BTW, I was recently intrigued to discover that the US Navy named a
            ship "Hyder Ally" late in the war (c.1782), which was the name of the
            Sultan of Mysore who gave the Brits so much trouble in southern India.
            So they must have been aware of those campaigns.

            Cheers
            Chris W
            King's Own





            --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Eric Bloomquist <sjteric@...> wrote:
            >
            > Esteemed List,
            > I wonder if anyone could suggest a good resource on the forces
            of the East India Company?
            > Thank you.
            >
            > Eric B.
            > King's Regt.
          • robertaselig
            Salut -- here are a few titles that may (or may not) be of interest. Most of them should be available at a good university library. ASYMMETRIC WARFARE: THE
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 28, 2008
              Salut --

              here are a few titles that may (or may not) be of interest. Most of
              them should be available at a good university library.

              ASYMMETRIC WARFARE: THE BRITISH EXPERIENCE IN EIGHTEENTH-CENTURY
              INDIA. Bryant, G. J.; Journal of Military History 2004 68(2): 431-469

              BRITISH LOGISTICS AND THE CONDUCT OF THE CARNATIC WARS (1746-1783).
              Bryant, G. J.; War in History 2004 11(3): 278-306

              DEUTSCHE SOLDATEN FÜR DIE EAST INDIA COMPANY: MATERIALIEN ZUM FALL
              FREDERICK. / German soldiers for the East India Company: materials on
              the Frederick case. Wilhelm, Friedrich.; Zeitschrift für
              Württembergische Landesgeschichte 2004 63: 203-236

              'SO ALARMING AN EVIL': SMUGGLING, PILFERING AND THE ENGLISH EAST
              INDIA COMPANY, 1750-1810. Bowen, H. V.; International Journal of
              Maritime History 2002 14(1): 1-31

              HOUSING EAST INDIA COMPANY TROOPS IN THE 1790S: A FORGOTTEN SURVEY.
              Thomas, James H.; Archives 2001 26(105): 123-133

              SHAH `ABBAS, THE ENGLISH EAST INDIA COMPANY AND THE CANNONEERS OF
              FARS. Mitchell, Colin Paul.; Itinerario 2000 24(2): 104-125.

              INDIGENOUS MERCENARIES IN THE SERVICE OF EUROPEAN IMPERIALISTS: THE
              CASE OF THE SEPOYS IN THE EARLY BRITISH INDIAN ARMY, 1750-1800.
              Bryant, G. J.; War in History 2000 7(1): 2-28

              The Sepoys and the Company: Tradition and Transition in Northern
              India, 1770-1830. Alavi, Seema. Oxford U. Pr. 315p.

              MILITARY DEVELOPMENTS IN INDIA, 1750-1850. Barua, Pradeep.; Journal
              of Military History 1994 58(4): 599-616

              A MILITARY ANOMALY: THE ARMY OF THE EAST INDIA COMPANY 1757-1857.
              Featherstone, Donald.; RUSI Journal : Royal United Services Institute
              for Defence Studies 1993 138(1): 48-52

              BETWEEN MARS AND MAMMON; THE EAST INDIA COMPANY AND EFFORTS TO REFORM
              ITS ARMY, 1796-1832. Peers, Douglas M.; Historical Journal 1990 33
              (2): 385-401

              THE EAST INDIA COMPANY AND MILITARY RECRUITMENT IN BRITAIN, 1763-71.
              Bowen, Huw V.; Bulletin of the Institute of Historical Research 1986
              59(139): 78-90

              COLONIAL PENETRATION AND THE INITIAL RESISTANCE: THE MUGHAL RULING
              CLASS, THE ENGLISH EAST INDIA COMPANY AND THE STRUGGLE FOR BENGAL
              1756-1800. Ray, Rajat Kanta.; Indian Historical Review 1985-1986 12(1-
              2): 1-105

              THE EAST INDIA COMPANY AND THE BRITISH ARMY: THE CRISIS AT MADRAS IN
              1783. Bryant, G. J.; Journal of the Society for Army Historical
              Research 1984 62(249): 13-27

              Lords of the East: The East Indian Company and Its Ships. Sutton,
              Jean. Conway Maritime 176p.

              MILITARY RECRUITMENT AND CAREER ADVANCEMENT IN THE EIGHTEENTH
              CENTURY: TWO CASE STUDIES. Gilbert, Arthur N.; Journal of the
              Society for Army Historical Research 1979 57(229): 34-44

              OFFICERS OF THE EAST INDIA COMPANY'S ARMY IN THE DAYS OF CLIVE AND
              HASTINGS. Bryant, Gerald.; Journal of Imperial & Commonwealth History
              1978 6(3): 203-227

              THE INDIAN ARMY - COMPANY AND RAJ. Goddard, Eric.; Asian Affairs 1976
              63(3): 263-276 14p. Historical Period: 1759-1947

              ARTILLERY UNDER THE EAST INDIA COMPANY. Gupta, A. P.; Journal of the
              United Service Institution of India 1976 106(443): 174-191

              TRUPPENEINHEITEN IM HEER DER BRITISCH-OSTINDISCHEN COMPANIE VON 1748
              BIS 1858 (SCHLUSS). / Military forces of the British East India
              Company, 1748-1858. Krausbeck, Kurt.; Zeitschrift für Heereskunde
              1976 40(263): 26-31

              RECRUITMENT AND REFORM IN THE EAST INDIA COMPANY ARMY, 1760-1880.
              Gilbert, Arthur N.; Journal of British Studies 1975 15(1): 89-111

              LAND FORCES OF THE ENGLISH EAST INDIA COMPANY IN THE SEVENTEENTH
              CENTURY. Peeler, Sue Pyatt.; Journal of Indian History: Golden
              Jubilee Volume. U. of Kerala 1973. pp. 549-564

              THE EAST INDIA COMPANY AND THE PEACE OF PARIS. Sutherland, L. S.;
              English Historical Review 1947 62(243): 179-190

              THE OLD SEPOY OFFICER (CONTINUED). Hill, S. Charles, ed.; English
              Historical Review 1913 28(111): 496-514

              THE OLD SEPOY OFFICER. Hill, S. Charles.; English Historical Review
              1913 28(110): 260-291

              If you want some titles on the aspect brought up below, let me know.

              Bob
              =========
              BTW, I was recently intrigued to discover that the US Navy named a
              ship "Hyder Ally" late in the war (c.1782), which was the name of the
              Sultan of Mysore who gave the Brits so much trouble in southern
              India. So they must have been aware of those campaigns.
            • robertaselig
              Salut -- here are a few more titles from the US Army Center For Military History bibliography: Ali, B. Sheikh. British Relations with Haidar Ali, 1760-1783.
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 28, 2008
                Salut --

                here are a few more titles from the US Army Center For Military
                History bibliography:

                Ali, B. Sheikh. British Relations with Haidar Ali, 1760-1783. Mysore:
                Rao and Raghavan, 1963.

                Bussy-Castelnau, Charles Joseph Pâtissier, marquis de. Journal de
                Bussy, commandant général des forces de terre et de mer dans l'Inde,
                13 novembre 1781-31 mars 1783. Edited by A[lfred] Martineau. Paris:
                E. Leroux, 1932.

                Dielütsch, B. von. "Die kurhannoverschen Truppen in Ostindien 1782-
                1792." Hannoversche Geschichtsblätter, No. 9-15 (1898).

                Glieg, G[eorge] R[obert]. The Life of Major-General Sir Thomas Munro,
                Bart. and K.C.B., Late Governor of Madras, with Extracts from His
                Correspondence and Private Papers. 3 vols. London: H. Colburn and
                Bentley, 1830.

                Killion, Howard Ray. "The Suffren Expedition: French Operations in
                India During the War of American Independence." Ph.D. Dissertation,
                Duke University, 1972.

                Martineau, Alfred. Bussy et l'Inde française, 1720-1785. Paris:
                Société de l'Histoire des Colonies Françaises, 1935.

                Munro, Innes. A Narrative of the Military Operations on the
                Coromandel Coast against the Combined Forces of the French, Dutch,
                and Hyder Ally Cawn from the Year 1780 to the Peace in 1784, in a
                Series of Letters .... London: T. Bensley, 1789.

                Bob

                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "robertaselig" <bobselig@...> wrote:
                >
                > Salut --
                >
                > here are a few titles that may (or may not) be of interest. Most of
                > them should be available at a good university library. .....
              • robertaselig
                Salut -- at the risk of boring you to death, here are a few more titles on the East India Company. John Roach, The 39th Regiment of Foot and the East India
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 29, 2008
                  Salut --

                  at the risk of boring you to death, here are a few more titles on the
                  East India Company.

                  John Roach, The 39th Regiment of Foot and the East India Company,
                  1754-1757. "Bull. John Rylands Libr. Bulletin of the John Rylands
                  Library" v. 41 (1958) p. 102-138

                  Johann Eduard Kilchenmann, Schweizersöldner im Dienste der Englisch-
                  Ostindischen Kompanie um die Mitte des 18. Jahrhunderts, Ein Beitrag
                  zur Geschichte der englischen Unternihmungen in Vorderindien (n. p.,
                  1911)

                  Raymond Callahan, The East India Company and army reform, 1783-1798.
                  (Cambridge, Harvard University Press, 1972)

                  Madan Paul Singh, The Indian army under the East India Company (New
                  Delhi: 1976)

                  Raj Kumar, The Military system of the East India Company (New Delhi:
                  2004)

                  Gerald James Bryant, The East India Company and its army, 1600-1778
                  (1975)

                  Allan Macpherson; John Macpherson; William Charles Macpherson,
                  Soldiering in India, 1764-1787; extracts from journals and letters
                  left by Lt. Colonel Allan Macpherson and Lt. Colonel John Macpherson
                  of the East India company's service,(Edinburgh, William Blackwood &
                  sons, ltd., 1928)

                  I don't recall who posted the question initially, but if you want
                  copies of some of these books, particularly the two published in New
                  Dehli, let me know asap. My eldest daughter will be in Dehli until 9
                  April finishing up her semester with Michigan State there and could
                  probably pick one up there easier than you could here.

                  Bob
                • Eric Bloomquist
                  Thanks Bob, In some sense... all of it. First I m interested in being able to understand the greater context, than gradually learn more about the details of
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 30, 2008
                    Thanks Bob,
                    In some sense... all of it. First I'm interested in being able to understand the greater context, than gradually learn more about the details of administration. I'm inspired by finding that an officer I know to have served in Canada in the 1770's is likely one and the same as a HEIC major-general of the 1830's... or maybe not. Better understanding the ups & downs of their forces between these dates will help to close the gap between speculation and documentation.

                    Eric B.

                    bobjinpa@... wrote: I passed on your request for info o a group who would know for sure -- here is an answer I got back --
                    When and where? The HEIC ran its own forces for about 100 years, and they
                    were distributed in three presidencies.

                    If you can be more explicit with your question, I will pass it on again, and with your email address if you like.

                    --
                    Bob Johnson
                    York PA
                    There are no whole truths; all truths are half-truths. It is trying to treat them as whole truths that play the devil. Alfred North Whitehead

                    -------------- Original message ----------------------
                    From: Eric Bloomquist <sjteric@...>
                    > Esteemed List,
                    > I wonder if anyone could suggest a good resource on the forces of the East
                    > India Company?
                    > Thank you.
                    >
                    > Eric B.
                    > King's Regt.
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    ---------------------------------
                    Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Eric Bloomquist
                    Bob, Oooo! Great! See a couple of titles that would go a long way towards forming a good picture. Thanks. Eric B. robertaselig wrote:
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 30, 2008
                      Bob,
                      Oooo! Great! See a couple of titles that would go a long way towards forming a good picture. Thanks.

                      Eric B.

                      robertaselig <bobselig@...> wrote: Salut --

                      at the risk of boring you to death, here are a few more titles on the
                      East India Company.

                      John Roach, The 39th Regiment of Foot and the East India Company,
                      1754-1757. "Bull. John Rylands Libr. Bulletin of the John Rylands
                      Library" v. 41 (1958) p. 102-138

                      Johann Eduard Kilchenmann, Schweizersöldner im Dienste der Englisch-
                      Ostindischen Kompanie um die Mitte des 18. Jahrhunderts, Ein Beitrag
                      zur Geschichte der englischen Unternihmungen in Vorderindien (n. p.,
                      1911)

                      Raymond Callahan, The East India Company and army reform, 1783-1798.
                      (Cambridge, Harvard University Press, 1972)

                      Madan Paul Singh, The Indian army under the East India Company (New
                      Delhi: 1976)

                      Raj Kumar, The Military system of the East India Company (New Delhi:
                      2004)

                      Gerald James Bryant, The East India Company and its army, 1600-1778
                      (1975)

                      Allan Macpherson; John Macpherson; William Charles Macpherson,
                      Soldiering in India, 1764-1787; extracts from journals and letters
                      left by Lt. Colonel Allan Macpherson and Lt. Colonel John Macpherson
                      of the East India company's service,(Edinburgh, William Blackwood &
                      sons, ltd., 1928)

                      I don't recall who posted the question initially, but if you want
                      copies of some of these books, particularly the two published in New
                      Dehli, let me know asap. My eldest daughter will be in Dehli until 9
                      April finishing up her semester with Michigan State there and could
                      probably pick one up there easier than you could here.

                      Bob






                      ---------------------------------
                      You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • DelRev225th@aol.com
                      I am intrigued by the idea. There are more & more students whose parents are from India. Most are excellent students and this might be a fascinating way to
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 31, 2008
                        I am intrigued by the idea. There are more & more students whose parents
                        are from India. Most are excellent students and this might be a fascinating way
                        to help them connect to American history. In fact, the first time I ever
                        heard of General Cornwallis, many moons ago, was from a medical doctor from
                        India, Narrander Singh, who loves history and was fascinated by the role
                        Cornwallis pplayed here in the States.

                        Kim W3R-USA


                        In a message dated 3/31/2008 11:07:14 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                        sjteric@... writes:




                        Bob,
                        Oooo! Great! See a couple of titles that would go a long way towards forming
                        a good picture. Thanks.

                        Eric B.

                        robertaselig <_bobselig@..._ (mailto:bobselig@...) > wrote: Salut
                        --

                        at the risk of boring you to death, here are a few more titles on the
                        East India Company.

                        John Roach, The 39th Regiment of Foot and the East India Company,
                        1754-1757. "Bull. John Rylands Libr. Bulletin of the John Rylands
                        Library" v. 41 (1958) p. 102-138

                        Johann Eduard Kilchenmann, Schweizerso&<WBR>#776;ldner im Dienste der Engl
                        Ostindischen Kompanie um die Mitte des 18. Jahrhunderts, Ein Beitrag
                        zur Geschichte der englischen Unternihmungen in Vorderindien (n. p.,
                        1911)

                        Raymond Callahan, The East India Company and army reform, 1783-1798.
                        (Cambridge, Harvard University Press, 1972)

                        Madan Paul Singh, The Indian army under the East India Company (New
                        Delhi: 1976)

                        Raj Kumar, The Military system of the East India Company (New Delhi:
                        2004)

                        Gerald James Bryant, The East India Company and its army, 1600-1778
                        (1975)

                        Allan Macpherson; John Macpherson; William Charles Macpherson,
                        Soldiering in India, 1764-1787; extracts from journals and letters
                        left by Lt. Colonel Allan Macpherson and Lt. Colonel John Macpherson
                        of the East India company's service,(Edinburgh, William Blackwood &
                        sons, ltd., 1928)

                        I don't recall who posted the question initially, but if you want
                        copies of some of these books, particularly the two published in New
                        Dehli, let me know asap. My eldest daughter will be in Dehli until 9
                        April finishing up her semester with Michigan State there and could
                        probably pick one up there easier than you could here.

                        Bob





                        ---------------------------------
                        You rock. That's why Blockbuster'You rock. That's why Blockbuster'<WBR>s
                        offering you one month

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                        **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
                        Home.
                        (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • robertaselig
                        Salut -- I ve been trying for years to get an audience for a lecture on the AWI as a World War with a particular focus on India -- but alas. No one has been
                        Message 11 of 13 , Apr 1, 2008
                          Salut --

                          I've been trying for years to get an audience for a lecture on the
                          AWI as a World War with a particular focus on India -- but alas. No
                          one has been interested yet. There would be many fascinating stories
                          to tell, e.g., who knew that there were over 2,800 Hanoverian troops
                          in India by 1782 fighting for the King of Great Britain, who also
                          happened to be the Elector of Hanover?

                          Bob
                          ============
                          --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, DelRev225th@... wrote:
                          >
                          > I am intrigued by the idea. There are more & more students whose
                          parents are from India. Most are excellent students and this might
                          be a fascinating way to help them connect to American history. In
                          fact, the first time I ever heard of General Cornwallis, many moons
                          ago, was from a medical doctor from India, Narrander Singh, who
                          loves history and was fascinated by the role Cornwallis played here
                          in the States.
                          >
                          > Kim W3R-USA
                          >
                        • John Gardner
                          Interesting thought, Bob! I ve actually done a couple presentations on this, perhaps ten years ago. I emphasized the naval side, but included a lot about
                          Message 12 of 13 , Apr 1, 2008
                            Interesting thought, Bob! I've actually done a couple presentations on this, perhaps ten years ago. I emphasized the naval side, but included a lot about Haider Ali vs. British East India Company. Some Indian historians see the AWI as the starting point of Indian nationalism.
                            Every 4th of July, the William Paca House in Annapolis, MD, holds a large naturalization ceremony as part of the celebration. I have talked with the new citizens about the Revolution as a world war and how it relates to the history of their former countries. The Indians have been both knowledgeable and interested, as have Hispanics.
                            Any suggestions as to sources? I've always liked the Dupuy's book, The American Revolution: A Global War, but it is almost impossible to find.
                            Jack Gardner

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • avalon forge
                            For anyone who is interested in the book Jack refers to, several copies can be found at http://www.abebooks.com/ The least expensive is less than $2. -- John
                            Message 13 of 13 , Apr 3, 2008
                              For anyone who is interested in the book Jack refers to, several copies
                              can be found at http://www.abebooks.com/ The least expensive is less
                              than $2.

                              --
                              John White
                              Avalon Forge
                              Baltimore
                              "All Manner of Replicas for Living History"
                              http://www.avalonforge.com





                              John Gardner wrote:
                              >
                              > Interesting thought, Bob! I've actually done a couple presentations on
                              > this, perhaps ten years ago. I emphasized the naval side, but included
                              > a lot about Haider Ali vs. British East India Company. Some Indian
                              > historians see the AWI as the starting point of Indian nationalism.
                              > Every 4th of July, the William Paca House in Annapolis, MD, holds a
                              > large naturalization ceremony as part of the celebration. I have
                              > talked with the new citizens about the Revolution as a world war and
                              > how it relates to the history of their former countries. The Indians
                              > have been both knowledgeable and interested, as have Hispanics.
                              > Any suggestions as to sources? I've always liked the Dupuy's book, The
                              > American Revolution: A Global War, but it is almost impossible to find.
                              > Jack Gardner
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
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