Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Crates, Chests and Boxes... - And Markings.

Expand Messages
  • raynersteve
    Hi Lloyd & All; Thank you, good sir, for the link. Indeed it shows the marking system used by the NW Company and it appears to be related to the systems used
    Message 1 of 17 , Feb 1, 2008
      Hi Lloyd & All;

      Thank you, good sir, for the link. Indeed it shows the marking system
      used by the NW Company and it appears to be related to the systems
      used in commerce as a whole, though as you say, it is somewhat later -
      and styles of lettering, etc. did evolve.

      The East India Company was certainly famous, Lloyd and all, but one
      might wonder about it's relevance -compared to- marks actually known
      to have been used by merchants and military departments within the
      Colonies/States in the era 1775-1782 - especially when we may have
      documents showing what goods were specifically delivered to the armies
      or even the specific regiments we portray.

      The several shipping/transport documents quickly found in the GWP,
      suggest that State and other archives may have similar documents.

      Those who study the Continental Army may have actually already
      collected copies of documents listing what clothing and supplies were
      shipped to their regiment in a given year or location.

      These are the lists that show how many coats, shirts, breeches, etc.,
      or what kind and color cloth was actually sent. It is quite likely
      that the -actual- marks used on those bales, casks or chests, are
      recorded in the margin of the very same documents.

      What could be better than to use that information?

      There could be nothing better, IMHO, to freehand copy the shipping
      mark and package numbers as they appear as they appear on the
      paperwork, copying the style, in flat black oil, or even better,
      milk-based paint.

      If we are looking for models for lettering to beef up our repertoire,
      I would recommend the title pages of books of the 1750-1782 era. I
      would be careful not to go past 1782 because several new font styles
      were introduced after the war.

      Markings such as these would be the finishing touch after we have
      decided that we really do need to have this stuff and accurately
      re-created the chest, cask or bale.

      The earthenware jar in the Samuel Scott dock scene is very
      interesting. It is of a type commonly used for the shipment of olives
      and such goods from Spain and the Mediterranean. Why there is a bundle
      of fabric spilling out of it is a mystery known perhaps, only to the
      painter and the 18th century dock workers he depicts.

      Best Regards to All,

      Steve Rayner



      --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Lloyd Moler" <firelock@...> wrote:
      >
      > There is a good article on Marking Shipping Items at this site
      > http://www.northwestjournal.ca/XVII3.htm
      >
      > Though a slight bit late for our period, you can get a good idea of
      > how items being shipped looked during the time.
      >
      > I am also posting a picture in the Photo section titled "Dock
      > Scene." I think it was painted during the period and it shows items
      > on the dock in England with markings very similar to those in the
      > Northwest Journal site. There is even a bale with an East India
      > Company marking on it.
      >
      > East India Company shipped a lot more than tea. They were probably
      > the largest trading company in the Caribbean as well as the Far East
      > at the time. Notice in the painting, the blanket that appears to
      > have been shipped in the crock container. They had a brisk business
      > in sugar, and molasses for the manufacture of rum.
      >
      > Hope this helps improve your camps image. A few properly marked
      > bales and shipping crates and barrels laying about definitely
      > improves the looks of things in my minds eye.
      >
      > Lloyd Moler
      > Idaho State Lt. ALRA
      > Priest River, ID
      >
    • Eric Bloomquist
      Steve, Regardless of the age of the signs, isn t there a tempting connection to the Revwar, at least for us... I seem to recall that a Sjt.of the King s
      Message 2 of 17 , Feb 1, 2008
        Steve,
        Regardless of the age of the signs, isn't there a tempting connection to the Revwar, at least for us... I seem to recall that a Sjt.of the King's Regiment went on to be a leading partner in the NW Co.... just don't recall which one, (James Phillips? Bailey?). He had been working part-time for Edward Pollard the Commissary at Niagara and Sutler to the Regiment.

        Eric B.

        raynersteve <steverayner@...> wrote: Hi Lloyd & All;

        Thank you, good sir, for the link. Indeed it shows the marking system
        used by the NW Company and it appears to be related to the systems
        used in commerce as a whole, though as you say, it is somewhat later -
        and styles of lettering, etc. did evolve.

        The East India Company was certainly famous, Lloyd and all, but one
        might wonder about it's relevance -compared to- marks actually known
        to have been used by merchants and military departments within the
        Colonies/States in the era 1775-1782 - especially when we may have
        documents showing what goods were specifically delivered to the armies
        or even the specific regiments we portray.

        The several shipping/transport documents quickly found in the GWP,
        suggest that State and other archives may have similar documents.

        Those who study the Continental Army may have actually already
        collected copies of documents listing what clothing and supplies were
        shipped to their regiment in a given year or location.

        These are the lists that show how many coats, shirts, breeches, etc.,
        or what kind and color cloth was actually sent. It is quite likely
        that the -actual- marks used on those bales, casks or chests, are
        recorded in the margin of the very same documents.

        What could be better than to use that information?

        There could be nothing better, IMHO, to freehand copy the shipping
        mark and package numbers as they appear as they appear on the
        paperwork, copying the style, in flat black oil, or even better,
        milk-based paint.

        If we are looking for models for lettering to beef up our repertoire,
        I would recommend the title pages of books of the 1750-1782 era. I
        would be careful not to go past 1782 because several new font styles
        were introduced after the war.

        Markings such as these would be the finishing touch after we have
        decided that we really do need to have this stuff and accurately
        re-created the chest, cask or bale.

        The earthenware jar in the Samuel Scott dock scene is very
        interesting. It is of a type commonly used for the shipment of olives
        and such goods from Spain and the Mediterranean. Why there is a bundle
        of fabric spilling out of it is a mystery known perhaps, only to the
        painter and the 18th century dock workers he depicts.

        Best Regards to All,

        Steve Rayner

        --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Lloyd Moler" <firelock@...> wrote:
        >
        > There is a good article on Marking Shipping Items at this site
        > http://www.northwestjournal.ca/XVII3.htm
        >
        > Though a slight bit late for our period, you can get a good idea of
        > how items being shipped looked during the time.
        >
        > I am also posting a picture in the Photo section titled "Dock
        > Scene." I think it was painted during the period and it shows items
        > on the dock in England with markings very similar to those in the
        > Northwest Journal site. There is even a bale with an East India
        > Company marking on it.
        >
        > East India Company shipped a lot more than tea. They were probably
        > the largest trading company in the Caribbean as well as the Far East
        > at the time. Notice in the painting, the blanket that appears to
        > have been shipped in the crock container. They had a brisk business
        > in sugar, and molasses for the manufacture of rum.
        >
        > Hope this helps improve your camps image. A few properly marked
        > bales and shipping crates and barrels laying about definitely
        > improves the looks of things in my minds eye.
        >
        > Lloyd Moler
        > Idaho State Lt. ALRA
        > Priest River, ID
        >






        ---------------------------------
        Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bernard Carol Kazwick
        Thank you. Bernie
        Message 3 of 17 , Feb 2, 2008
          Thank you. Bernie
        • Sgt42RHR@aol.com
          Eric, I would tend to agree. International shipping was not limited to the military, in fact international commerce was a cornerstone of the British empire.
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 2, 2008
            Eric,
            I would tend to agree. International shipping was not limited to the
            military, in fact international commerce was a cornerstone of the British empire.
            I doubt that when the RevWar ended the system of marking commercial shipping
            containers was scrapped in favor of a new system. I am confident in fact
            that it did not and that it continued to evolve. I suspect that a symbol and a
            number or a written label during the RevWar period and one 25 years later
            probably differed primarily in the script of the lettering.

            But hey, I've been wrong before!

            Cheers,
            John
            sjteric@... writes:

            Steve,
            Regardless of the age of the signs, isn't there a tempting connection to the
            Revwar, at least for us... I seem to recall that a Sjt.of the King's
            Regiment went on to be a leading partner in the NW Co.... just don't recall which
            one, (James Phillips? Bailey?). He had been working part-time for Edward
            Pollard the Commissary at Niagara and Sutler to the Regiment.

            Eric B.




            John M. Johnston,
            "There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness." Dave Barry



            **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
            (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
            48)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • raynersteve
            Hi Eric; Indeed, one could scarcely move anything on the St. Lawrence - Great Lakes navigation without competing for space with the NWC. Protection of the Fur
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 3, 2008
              Hi Eric;

              Indeed, one could scarcely move anything on the St. Lawrence - Great
              Lakes navigation without competing for space with the NWC. Protection
              of the Fur Trade was after all, the original reason for the 8th being
              in Canada.

              A lot of the names in the page kindly provided by Mr. Moler are
              frequently mentioned in transactions with the 8th.

              We would just need to fine-tune the information on the web page by
              looking at dated shipping documents. No doubt there would be some
              goods destined specifically to Officers of the 8th. One couldn't get
              much closer to a correct period marking than that.

              Best Regards,

              Steve Rayner



              --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Eric Bloomquist <sjteric@...> wrote:
              >
              > Steve,
              > Regardless of the age of the signs, isn't there a tempting
              connection to the Revwar, at least for us... I seem to recall that a
              Sjt.of the King's Regiment went on to be a leading partner in the NW
              Co.... just don't recall which one, (James Phillips? Bailey?). He had
              been working part-time for Edward Pollard the Commissary at Niagara
              and Sutler to the Regiment.
              >
              > Eric B.
              >
              > raynersteve <steverayner@...> wrote:
              Hi Lloyd & All;
              >
              > Thank you, good sir, for the link. Indeed it shows the marking system
              > used by the NW Company and it appears to be related to the systems
              > used in commerce as a whole, though as you say, it is somewhat later -
              > and styles of lettering, etc. did evolve.
              >
              > The East India Company was certainly famous, Lloyd and all, but one
              > might wonder about it's relevance -compared to- marks actually known
              > to have been used by merchants and military departments within the
              > Colonies/States in the era 1775-1782 - especially when we may have
              > documents showing what goods were specifically delivered to the armies
              > or even the specific regiments we portray.
              >
              > The several shipping/transport documents quickly found in the GWP,
              > suggest that State and other archives may have similar documents.
              >
              > Those who study the Continental Army may have actually already
              > collected copies of documents listing what clothing and supplies were
              > shipped to their regiment in a given year or location.
              >
              > These are the lists that show how many coats, shirts, breeches, etc.,
              > or what kind and color cloth was actually sent. It is quite likely
              > that the -actual- marks used on those bales, casks or chests, are
              > recorded in the margin of the very same documents.
              >
              > What could be better than to use that information?
              >
              > There could be nothing better, IMHO, to freehand copy the shipping
              > mark and package numbers as they appear as they appear on the
              > paperwork, copying the style, in flat black oil, or even better,
              > milk-based paint.
              >
              > If we are looking for models for lettering to beef up our repertoire,
              > I would recommend the title pages of books of the 1750-1782 era. I
              > would be careful not to go past 1782 because several new font styles
              > were introduced after the war.
              >
              > Markings such as these would be the finishing touch after we have
              > decided that we really do need to have this stuff and accurately
              > re-created the chest, cask or bale.
              >
              > The earthenware jar in the Samuel Scott dock scene is very
              > interesting. It is of a type commonly used for the shipment of olives
              > and such goods from Spain and the Mediterranean. Why there is a bundle
              > of fabric spilling out of it is a mystery known perhaps, only to the
              > painter and the 18th century dock workers he depicts.
              >
              > Best Regards to All,
              >
              > Steve Rayner
              >
              > --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, "Lloyd Moler" <firelock@> wrote:
              > >
              > > There is a good article on Marking Shipping Items at this site
              > > http://www.northwestjournal.ca/XVII3.htm
              > >
              > > Though a slight bit late for our period, you can get a good idea of
              > > how items being shipped looked during the time.
              > >
              > > I am also posting a picture in the Photo section titled "Dock
              > > Scene." I think it was painted during the period and it shows items
              > > on the dock in England with markings very similar to those in the
              > > Northwest Journal site. There is even a bale with an East India
              > > Company marking on it.
              > >
              > > East India Company shipped a lot more than tea. They were probably
              > > the largest trading company in the Caribbean as well as the Far East
              > > at the time. Notice in the painting, the blanket that appears to
              > > have been shipped in the crock container. They had a brisk business
              > > in sugar, and molasses for the manufacture of rum.
              > >
              > > Hope this helps improve your camps image. A few properly marked
              > > bales and shipping crates and barrels laying about definitely
              > > improves the looks of things in my minds eye.
              > >
              > > Lloyd Moler
              > > Idaho State Lt. ALRA
              > > Priest River, ID
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
              Try it now.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • raynersteve
              Hi John & All; Just to clarify on the NWC... The basis system is as far as I can tell, valid to the AWI era. What we would want to do is to refine the focus on
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 3, 2008
                Hi John & All;

                Just to clarify on the NWC...

                The basis system is as far as I can tell, valid to the AWI era.

                What we would want to do is to refine the focus on the basis of
                merchants who were members active during the AWI. Documents specific
                to the era are lodged in various archives, which would enable us to do
                that. Once we had specific documents in hand, we would know how
                specific shipments were marked, possibly, even right down to the exact
                bale.

                Cheers!

                Steve Rayner

                --- In Revlist@yahoogroups.com, Sgt42RHR@... wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Eric,
                > I would tend to agree. International shipping was not limited to the
                > military, in fact international commerce was a cornerstone of the
                British empire.
                > I doubt that when the RevWar ended the system of marking commercial
                shipping
                > containers was scrapped in favor of a new system. I am confident
                in fact
                > that it did not and that it continued to evolve. I suspect that a
                symbol and a
                > number or a written label during the RevWar period and one 25 years
                later
                > probably differed primarily in the script of the lettering.
                >
                > But hey, I've been wrong before!
                >
                > Cheers,
                > John
                > sjteric@... writes:
                >
                > Steve,
                > Regardless of the age of the signs, isn't there a tempting
                connection to the
                > Revwar, at least for us... I seem to recall that a Sjt.of the King's
                > Regiment went on to be a leading partner in the NW Co.... just
                don't recall which
                > one, (James Phillips? Bailey?). He had been working part-time for
                Edward
                > Pollard the Commissary at Niagara and Sutler to the Regiment.
                >
                > Eric B.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > John M. Johnston,
                > "There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness." Dave Barry
                >
                >
                >
                > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL
                Music.
                >
                (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                > 48)
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.