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Re: [Renfolks] Crap ,here's the article !!

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  • Stacy Dunaway
    Your link will get you to a page that you can at least use search & everyone can just search for wicca & find that article plus others that are just as inane.
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 1, 2005
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      Your link will get you to a page that you can at least use search & everyone can just search for wicca & find that article plus others that are just as inane. I'm not Wiccan but I am pagan & that is just obserd. So much for seperation of the church & state.

      Demondove <lassothemoors@...> wrote:
      Well , I couldn't get the WHOLE link to copy and paste correctly to
      be able to send it to you .. but here is the ACTUAL article.
      Anyone can contact the reporter if they wish .. his number is at the
      end of the article.

      In Lucifer,
      Demondove !
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      Experts expect court to overturn order that bars divorced pair from
      exposing son to Wicca.

      What is Wicca?

      Wicca is not a centralized religion but a belief system observed by
      about 50,000 Americans that's recognized by reference texts such as
      the Army Chaplain's Handbook.

      Wicca is related to a form of European tribal nature worship. Wiccans
      regard living things as sacred and often show a special concern for
      the environment.

      They do not worship Satan, but some do practice "magick" and
      cast "spells." Some, but not all, Wiccans worship in the nude,
      or "skyclad," as a sign of attunement with nature.

      The core ethical value of Wicca, which some have likened to the
      Golden Rule, states, "As it harm none, do what you will."

      -- Star report

      By Kevin Corcoran
      kevin.corcoran@...


      A court order prohibiting a Marion County father and his ex-wife from
      exposing their son to "non-mainstream religious beliefs" is likely to
      be reversed, legal experts said Thursday.

      However, publicity about the divorce case could help better educate
      people about Wicca, a contemporary pagan religion, said Andrew
      Koppelman, a Northwestern University law professor.

      Cale J. Bradford, chief judge of Marion Superior Court, kept the
      unusual provision in Thomas E. Jones Jr. and Tammie U. Bristol's
      divorce decree last year over their protests, court records show. The
      parents are practicing Wiccans, and their divorce decree does not
      define a mainstream religion.

      The Indiana Civil Liberties Union and Jones assert the judge's order
      tramples on the parents' constitutional right to expose their son,
      Archer, to a religion of their choice. Both say the court failed to
      explain how exposing the boy to Wicca's beliefs and practices would
      harm him.

      Debate swirled in pagan religious circles locally and nationally
      after The Indianapolis Star reported on the case Thursday. Jones, 37,
      said he posted messages on two Web sites Thursday in an attempt to
      keep pagans from sending e-mail and letters of protest to Bradford.

      "I've posted pleas for them to leave him alone," Jones said.

      Through a court spokeswoman, Bradford has said he cannot discuss the
      pending legal dispute. The Indiana Court of Appeals could rule at any
      time.

      Experts say an appellate ruling is likely to go in Jones' favor.

      "Parents have a constitutional right to direct the upbringing of
      their children. That has been settled for nearly a century," said
      Koppelman, an expert in constitutional law.

      "This case has got to be reversed, given the lack of explanation by
      the judge. It would be bad enough if he had singled out Wicca, but he
      has phrased it in such broad terms there's an argument the child
      could not be allowed to attend Jewish or Muslim services."

      Before the appeals court would consider constitutional issues of
      religious freedom, however, it's more likely to fault a decision by
      one of Bradford's commissioners to include the one-paragraph
      restriction without showing actual or potential harm to the child,
      said an Indiana family law attorney.

      "This decision should be frightening to people of any faith, because
      who decides what's mainstream?" said Donna Bays, chairwoman of the
      Family Law Section of the Indiana State Bar Association. "I have
      never seen a judge put anything like that in any order involving
      parties who were in agreement. "

      Indiana law allows the custodial parent to determine a child's
      religious practices unless a child's physical health would be
      endangered or a child's emotional health would be impaired.

      She said courts typically take the child's wishes into account when
      determining custody for those at least 14. In this case, a temporary
      guardian or special advocate could have been appointed while the
      court investigated the effects of the boy's exposure to Wicca.

      Jones brought the case to the Indiana Court of Appeals in January,
      with help from the ICLU. They requested the appeals court strike the
      one-paragraph clause.

      The parents' Wiccan beliefs came to Bradford's attention in a
      confidential report by the Domestic Relations Counseling Bureau,
      which provides recommendations to the court on child custody and
      visitation rights.

      The Indianapolis residents married in February 1995, and their
      divorce was final in February 2004. Bristol and Jones have joint
      custody, and the boy lives with the father on the Northside.

      The parents believe in nature-based deities and engage in worship
      rituals that include guided meditation. Jones said he is not trying
      to force religious beliefs on his 9-year-old son, who attends a local
      Catholic elementary school and a Unitarian church.

      "He's going to make his own path, in his own time," Jones said.

      Pagans encounter so many problems with the legal system that Dana
      Eilers, a retired attorney from Massachusetts, wrote "Pagans and the
      Law: Understand Your Rights." Eilers said Thursday she heard about
      the local case through the pagan community and couldn't believe it.

      "What it looks like is the judge has just pre-empted the parents and
      said, 'No, this is how you're going to do it.' "

      Call Star reporter Kevin Corcoran at (317) 444-2770.






      Stacy Dunaway/Lady Celtic
      Lady to Lord Tazz
      The instigator of war (Chaos vs. Naughtyham)
      Aracnia of the Clan McBuggins
      Gnature Gnomie

      __________________________________________________
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    • Demondove
      ... & everyone can just search for wicca & find that article plus others that are just as inane. I m not Wiccan but I am pagan & that is just obserd. So much
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 2, 2005
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        --- In Renfolks@yahoogroups.com, Stacy Dunaway <stacydunaway@y...>
        wrote:

        > Your link will get you to a page that you can at least use search
        & everyone can just search for wicca & find that article plus others
        that are just as inane. I'm not Wiccan but I am pagan & that is just
        obserd. So much for seperation of the church & state.
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        Well, I am not Wiccan either. I am a Luciferian , which is .. also
        Pagan.
        Unfortunately , it is (usually) a Pagan religion (of some sort) that
        gets booted , trampled , spit upon , shunned , shamed , talked
        about , wrote about , stereotyped , discriminated against , and
        blamed ... for something .. or everything ... all the time.

        Never .. has state ever been "seperate" from church.
        Each and every one of our President's have had some form
        of "religious" background , hence ; affecting HOW this country is
        run. There is no way around it. It's just like a HP or HPS of a
        Coven. They are going to run it like they have been taught.
        Not to mention , our own LAWS of these lands .. are based soley
        on "Christian morals and ethics".
        This *IS* .. a very controversial topic .. and can become a very
        heated debate. Especially amongst Pagans !!

        I will say this ..
        At least in several states .. they are taking the "Ten Commandments"
        OUT of the courthouses. And IMO , THEY SHOULD.
        Not everyone who GOES to a courthouse .. is a Christian. And if
        they are going to have the holy bible as a "guideline" , then they
        should have ALL RELIGIOUS foundations as a guideline .. and
        posted "somewhere" in the courthouses. lol.
        <<<Can we ever see THAT happening ? Probably not.>>>

        It's almost impossible to see in my own mind's eye .. church and
        state EVER being seperated.
        However , more and more people ARE exercising their rights to
        religious freedom. And it is vitally important that our government
        ABIDES by our Constitution. Which doesn't often happen.
        Meaning .. if a government official and/or any other person ... is
        in a position to right a wrong .. they are RESPONSIBLE in righting
        the wrong.
        The bad and sad thing is ...
        We have so many crooked and uncaring individuals in our
        government .. that our constitutional rights are trampled on ALL OF
        THE TIME .. and more than we would care to know !!
        So sad .. but so true.

        In Lucifer,
        Demondove !


        >
        > Demondove <lassothemoors@y...> wrote:Well , I couldn't get the
        WHOLE link to copy and paste correctly to
        > be able to send it to you .. but here is the ACTUAL article.
        > Anyone can contact the reporter if they wish .. his number is at
        the
        > end of the article.
        >
        > In Lucifer,
        > Demondove !
        >
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        >
        >
        > Experts expect court to overturn order that bars divorced pair
        from
        > exposing son to Wicca.
        >
        > What is Wicca?
        >
        > Wicca is not a centralized religion but a belief system observed
        by
        > about 50,000 Americans that's recognized by reference texts such
        as
        > the Army Chaplain's Handbook.
        >
        > Wicca is related to a form of European tribal nature worship.
        Wiccans
        > regard living things as sacred and often show a special concern
        for
        > the environment.
        >
        > They do not worship Satan, but some do practice "magick" and
        > cast "spells." Some, but not all, Wiccans worship in the nude,
        > or "skyclad," as a sign of attunement with nature.
        >
        > The core ethical value of Wicca, which some have likened to the
        > Golden Rule, states, "As it harm none, do what you will."
        >
        > -- Star report
        >
        > By Kevin Corcoran
        > kevin.corcoran@i...
        >
        >
        > A court order prohibiting a Marion County father and his ex-wife
        from
        > exposing their son to "non-mainstream religious beliefs" is likely
        to
        > be reversed, legal experts said Thursday.
        >
        > However, publicity about the divorce case could help better
        educate
        > people about Wicca, a contemporary pagan religion, said Andrew
        > Koppelman, a Northwestern University law professor.
        >
        > Cale J. Bradford, chief judge of Marion Superior Court, kept the
        > unusual provision in Thomas E. Jones Jr. and Tammie U. Bristol's
        > divorce decree last year over their protests, court records show.
        The
        > parents are practicing Wiccans, and their divorce decree does not
        > define a mainstream religion.
        >
        > The Indiana Civil Liberties Union and Jones assert the judge's
        order
        > tramples on the parents' constitutional right to expose their son,
        > Archer, to a religion of their choice. Both say the court failed
        to
        > explain how exposing the boy to Wicca's beliefs and practices
        would
        > harm him.
        >
        > Debate swirled in pagan religious circles locally and nationally
        > after The Indianapolis Star reported on the case Thursday. Jones,
        37,
        > said he posted messages on two Web sites Thursday in an attempt to
        > keep pagans from sending e-mail and letters of protest to Bradford.
        >
        > "I've posted pleas for them to leave him alone," Jones said.
        >
        > Through a court spokeswoman, Bradford has said he cannot discuss
        the
        > pending legal dispute. The Indiana Court of Appeals could rule at
        any
        > time.
        >
        > Experts say an appellate ruling is likely to go in Jones' favor.
        >
        > "Parents have a constitutional right to direct the upbringing of
        > their children. That has been settled for nearly a century," said
        > Koppelman, an expert in constitutional law.
        >
        > "This case has got to be reversed, given the lack of explanation
        by
        > the judge. It would be bad enough if he had singled out Wicca, but
        he
        > has phrased it in such broad terms there's an argument the child
        > could not be allowed to attend Jewish or Muslim services."
        >
        > Before the appeals court would consider constitutional issues of
        > religious freedom, however, it's more likely to fault a decision
        by
        > one of Bradford's commissioners to include the one-paragraph
        > restriction without showing actual or potential harm to the child,
        > said an Indiana family law attorney.
        >
        > "This decision should be frightening to people of any faith,
        because
        > who decides what's mainstream?" said Donna Bays, chairwoman of the
        > Family Law Section of the Indiana State Bar Association. "I have
        > never seen a judge put anything like that in any order involving
        > parties who were in agreement. "
        >
        > Indiana law allows the custodial parent to determine a child's
        > religious practices unless a child's physical health would be
        > endangered or a child's emotional health would be impaired.
        >
        > She said courts typically take the child's wishes into account
        when
        > determining custody for those at least 14. In this case, a
        temporary
        > guardian or special advocate could have been appointed while the
        > court investigated the effects of the boy's exposure to Wicca.
        >
        > Jones brought the case to the Indiana Court of Appeals in January,
        > with help from the ICLU. They requested the appeals court strike
        the
        > one-paragraph clause.
        >
        > The parents' Wiccan beliefs came to Bradford's attention in a
        > confidential report by the Domestic Relations Counseling Bureau,
        > which provides recommendations to the court on child custody and
        > visitation rights.
        >
        > The Indianapolis residents married in February 1995, and their
        > divorce was final in February 2004. Bristol and Jones have joint
        > custody, and the boy lives with the father on the Northside.
        >
        > The parents believe in nature-based deities and engage in worship
        > rituals that include guided meditation. Jones said he is not
        trying
        > to force religious beliefs on his 9-year-old son, who attends a
        local
        > Catholic elementary school and a Unitarian church.
        >
        > "He's going to make his own path, in his own time," Jones said.
        >
        > Pagans encounter so many problems with the legal system that Dana
        > Eilers, a retired attorney from Massachusetts, wrote "Pagans and
        the
        > Law: Understand Your Rights." Eilers said Thursday she heard about
        > the local case through the pagan community and couldn't believe it.
        >
        > "What it looks like is the judge has just pre-empted the parents
        and
        > said, 'No, this is how you're going to do it.' "
        >
        > Call Star reporter Kevin Corcoran at (317) 444-2770.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
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        >
        >
        >
        > Stacy Dunaway/Lady Celtic
        > Lady to Lord Tazz
        > The instigator of war (Chaos vs. Naughtyham)
        > Aracnia of the Clan McBuggins
        > Gnature Gnomie
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
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