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Re: Not gonna be there

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  • Selena <austinrengirl@yahoo.com>
    ... Violet! I m so sorry... what I would like to know is arresed for WHAT?? Indecent exposure??? PUUULLEEEZZZEE! We rennies wear more clothing than Britney
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 3, 2003
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      > I was threatened by the "Executive Director" with either being
      >thrown out of the faire or arrested!

      Violet! I'm so sorry... what I would like to know is arresed for
      WHAT?? Indecent exposure??? PUUULLEEEZZZEE! We rennies wear more
      clothing than Britney Spears, whom the world's prepubescent girls
      (and boys) love to look watch and emulate! What a crock! So, what
      did they do to the mundanes who wore low cut shirts/sweaters/tight
      jeans/short skirts, hmmm? Hypocrites!

      -selena
    • Breanne
      ... From: Vamptasia [mailto:vamptasia@ev1.net] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:15 PM To: Renfolks@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Renfolks] Re: Not gonna be there
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 3, 2003
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        -----Original Message-----
        From: Vamptasia [mailto:vamptasia@...]
        Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:15 PM
        To: Renfolks@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Renfolks] Re: Not gonna be there

        Man Cindy all I can say is I have yet to see a Pic of you where you show more boob than me.  And the fact that your hands where visibly burned just makes me wonder even more why they picked on you. 
         
        All I can think is you probably have a better pair then them and they where jellous *giggles*  Don't let it upset you to bad.  Just means we boycott it *evil grin* and let everyone know exactly what kind of fair it is. 
         
        I mean think about it.  I know that we bring a lot of the  character to the fairs.  Our trips to Excal is partly what makes others want to come.  You can only hire so many characters and afford to pay them for a small faire.  We accent it for the price of a free ticket or nothing at all.  Just a great place to share with our friends.
         
        So forget NTIF we don't need them.
         
        Huggles,

        Vamptasia
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      • Breanne
        Definately... if it s not a rennie friendly environment then... well, I have a rather large contact group of rennies, quite a few of whom go to NTIF, and no
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 3, 2003
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          Definately... if it's not a rennie friendly environment then... well, I have
          a rather large contact group of rennies, quite a few of whom go to NTIF, and
          no few of those are peeved at all the recent SCA stipulations at seemingly
          every fair. I'm with Vamptasia... We boycott. That's completely
          inacceptable to treat /anyone/ like that. Anywho... Just wanted to let you
          know that I empathize and WILL be spreading the word at the ::ahem::
          hospitality that you recieved.

          Silvix
        • Vamptasia
          Man Cindy all I can say is I have yet to see a Pic of you where you show more boob than me. And the fact that your hands where visibly burned just makes me
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 3, 2003
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            Man Cindy all I can say is I have yet to see a Pic of you where you show more boob than me.  And the fact that your hands where visibly burned just makes me wonder even more why they picked on you. 
             
            All I can think is you probably have a better pair then them and they where jellous *giggles*  Don't let it upset you to bad.  Just means we boycott it *evil grin* and let everyone know exactly what kind of fair it is. 
             
            I mean think about it.  I know that we bring a lot of the  character to the fairs.  Our trips to Excal is partly what makes others want to come.  You can only hire so many characters and afford to pay them for a small faire.  We accent it for the price of a free ticket or nothing at all.  Just a great place to share with our friends.
             
            So forget NTIF we don't need them.
             
            Huggles,

            Vamptasia
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          • Squeakzilla <squeak@fnord.org>
            ... Just means we boycott it ... character to the ... come. You ... faire. ... Just a great ... while i agree cindy s treatment seems to be way overboard and
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 3, 2003
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              --- In Renfolks@yahoogroups.com, "Vamptasia" <vamptasia@e...> wrote:
              Just means we boycott it
              > *evil grin* and let everyone know exactly what kind of fair it is.
              >
              > I mean think about it. I know that we bring a lot of the
              character to the
              > fairs. Our trips to Excal is partly what makes others want to
              come. You
              > can only hire so many characters and afford to pay them for a small
              faire.
              > We accent it for the price of a free ticket or nothing at all.
              Just a great
              > place to share with our friends.
              >

              while i agree cindy's treatment seems to be way overboard and
              inappropriate (and a detailed letter, with attached notes from
              witnesses should be sent to the director and board and sponsors of
              the festival), i just want to point out that ntif is not a renfaire,
              but an irish themed shopping event, that happens to hire some of the
              same bands and acts that we see at the renaissance festivals. they
              don't *need* us, as there are plenty of folks who go there and spend
              all kinds of $ because it is an irish fest, not because of a few
              people in costumes.

              squeak
            • Vamptasia
              I admit I have no idea what it is or where it is located just think they should not treat anyone that way. Rennie or not unless she was showing nipples and
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 3, 2003
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                I admit I have no idea what it is or where it is located just think they should not treat anyone that way.  Rennie or not unless she was showing nipples and bush then I could understand.  Because lets face it TV shows more cleavage and body than most of us do in garb.
                 
                Vamptasia 
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              • Selena <austinrengirl@yahoo.com>
                I agree 100% with you, it is not a renfaire, however, if they had SUCH a problem with the way folks coming in garb were dressed, then that should have been
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 3, 2003
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                  I agree 100% with you, it is not a renfaire, however, if they had
                  SUCH a problem with the way folks coming in garb were dressed, then
                  that should have been taken care of prior to entry to the festival.
                  Some people that don't work these festivals actually wear their Clan
                  tartan and other period garb, so this issue should have been
                  addressed before even going thru the gate. It's just a damn shame
                  that they have the balls to treat a paying customer that way.
                  Violet, I haven't seen your hands since the accident... couldn't this
                  rude woman SEE your hands for herself, or was she just so damned
                  blind to the obvious?

                  -s


                  Squeakzilla wrote:
                  > while i agree cindy's treatment seems to be way overboard and
                  > inappropriate...i just want to point out that ntif is not a
                  >renfaire, but an irish themed shopping event, that happens to hire
                  >some of the same bands and acts that we see at the renaissance
                  >festivals. they don't *need* us
                • Vamptasia
                  I have to admit I have not been a hard core rennie up until this year. As the time passed and the faires came and go I too noticed a big change at the larger
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 3, 2003
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                    I have to admit I have not been a hard core rennie up until this year.  As the time passed and the faires came and go I too noticed a big change at the larger Renfaires.  
                     
                    I can understand the need to be environment conscious.  Meaning if you see children around you, you should be adult and watch your language and possibly your actions because it can influence children who watch.  But lets be honest here. 
                     
                    • parents should be aware of a childs surrounding and what they see and hear.  If it offends the parents because of the children among them then they should 1 take the child away from the situation and 2 politely say something if it is language related and they have a concern but a need to stay within the area.  Most adults will be compliant enough to watch what they say and do when in the presence of children.
                    • If there are garb rules or regulations to follow than they should be posted somewhere visually otherwise it can not be legally upheld.
                     
                    We can get rowdy we can get unruly at times and we can be stupid.  But who doesn't.  As Selena pointed out if there was a problem with her attire then that should have been addressed before she was admitted in.  When she was admitted into the festival in the attire she had on then it can only be concluded that it was acceptable.  The fact that she was treated as though she broke a law of festival fashion is just stupid. 
                     
                    The SCA is really influencing garb of faire.  I noticed it myself.  But you know what I see these faires  have an SCA area designated to the local groups that is all there own.  So more than likely there taking over the faires because they are probably investing in them. 
                     
                    Just my 2 cents
                     
                    Vamptasia
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                  • angie forester
                    Very well spoken and said - unfortantely not all parents are responsible and expect that everyone else watch their kids for them and want to bitch and complain
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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                      Very well spoken and said - unfortantely not all parents are responsible and expect that everyone else watch their kids for them and want to bitch and complain when the kids hear or see something they shouldn't.... what is sad tho are these are people who complain at faire but when going to other areas that are "more child friendly" ie six flags or a water park - you see alot more and hear alot more going on than you usually do at faire.

                       Vamptasia <vamptasia@...> wrote:

                      I have to admit I have not been a hard core rennie up until this year.  As the time passed and the faires came and go I too noticed a big change at the larger Renfaires.  
                       
                      I can understand the need to be environment conscious.  Meaning if you see children around you, you should be adult and watch your language and possibly your actions because it can influence children who watch.  But lets be honest here. 
                       
                      • parents should be aware of a childs surrounding and what they see and hear.  If it offends the parents because of the children among them then they should 1 take the child away from the situation and 2 politely say something if it is language related and they have a concern but a need to stay within the area.  Most adults will be compliant enough to watch what they say and do when in the presence of children.
                      • If there are garb rules or regulations to follow than they should be posted somewhere visually otherwise it can not be legally upheld.
                       
                      We can get rowdy we can get unruly at times and we can be stupid.  But who doesn't.  As Selena pointed out if there was a problem with her attire then that should have been addressed before she was admitted in.  When she was admitted into the festival in the attire she had on then it can only be concluded that it was acceptable.  The fact that she was treated as though she broke a law of festival fashion is just stupid. 
                       
                      The SCA is really influencing garb of faire.  I noticed it myself.  But you know what I see these faires  have an SCA area designated to the local groups that is all there own.  So more than likely there taking over the faires because they are probably investing in them. 
                       
                      Just my 2 cents
                       
                      Vamptasia
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                    • Cindy Meeks
                      First and foremost, thanks guys for assuring me that I ve not woken up suddenly in some nightmare where such treatment is accepted. I have to admit that I m
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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                        First and foremost, thanks guys for assuring me that I've not woken up
                        suddenly in some nightmare where such treatment is accepted. I have to
                        admit that I'm still in shock over what happened. Usually I can just kinda
                        blow incidents off and chalk it up to someone else having a bad day and
                        taking it out on someone at random. What's that song about a "cockeyed
                        optimist"? Anyone who's met me knows that I'd much rather smile and make
                        others smile than anything else. Thanks to all of you who have written
                        both publically and privately sending support, hugs and stuff.

                        Next, I need to set a few things straight. First, Squeak is right. NTIF is
                        not a Renfaire. it is a fest celebrating Celtic heritage... specifically
                        focusing on the Irish. However, for as long as I can remember, the Rennies
                        were welcome there and considered this fest as the kick off to their faire
                        season. I have been going there for many years in garb and have friends who
                        had been going before me. I even remember the year I went in Danes and felt
                        so out of place... that I went home and dressed and came back. I was even
                        there last year when attendance was horrible because of the weather.

                        Secondly, the SCA had nothing at all to do with what happened to me. The
                        faire is put on by the SCMA. It's the "Southwest Celtic Music Association".
                        It wasn't that my garb was not period enough. It was that I was "too
                        exposed" or possibly from what I'm hearing, because I was in garb at all.
                        I'm not sure. I admit that I didn't check posted dress codes but my
                        roommate did and said that I was not wearing anything against it.

                        Third, my outrage is not because I was asked to cover up more. I am, what
                        I'd like to think, is a reasonable human being. I understand that people
                        have different ideas on what is and is not tasteful or acceptable and try
                        not to offend intentionally. Had the first woman walked up to me politely
                        and asked me to cover up more. I would have happily gone through the same
                        pain I went through very unhappily this time. I admit that the new bodice
                        and all is a bit provocative, it's part of the fun. On a reasonable side, I
                        wouldn't have had a problem if it had been handled politely. But it wasn't.
                        Each and every one of the people involved, from the Volunteer Coordinator to
                        the Executive Coordinator to the rumored Owner to the Police were all as
                        confrontational and rude as possible. Even with them being so rude... I
                        tried to comply with their requests. I was requested to put my "jacket",
                        cloak, on. I did. I was requested to cover up more... I did. I was asked
                        to cover up even more... I DID. Finding out that the only way to comply
                        with their wishes was to purchase and wear a t-shirt was confusing and
                        disheartening. Not being able to have civil conversation with these people
                        or even finish a sentance was frustrating and infuriating. My questions on
                        why my garment was so offensive compared to others being worn fell on deaf
                        ears. There was nothing reasonable about the situation.

                        Fourth, had I been taken to jail (which thank the gods I was not) it would
                        have been on criminal trespassing. I did get that much from one of the
                        officers. He admitted that I was not indecently exposed. He stated that if
                        they told me I had to leave and I did not comply, then I could and would be
                        arrested on criminal tresspassing. One point that I will make is that I was
                        threatened with being taken away long before I was actually told that I
                        needed to leave. And was threatened even more harshly with this whole two
                        minute crap while getting my money back. The scariest part is that the
                        police, once called peace keepers, seemed only to feed the fires and make
                        things worse.

                        As Squeak said, NTIF is an Irish themed shopping event. I will disagree
                        with Squeak on one point though I see where she is coming from on it. A
                        good number of patrons at NTIF are Rennies. I can't count the number of
                        friends and people I recognized from faire that I saw there. A good number
                        of their vendors are also businesses that we see at Renfaires such as Magick
                        Cauldron, Voyagers Dream, Swan's Lace, etc... After NTIF had a really bad
                        year last year due to the weather, a good number of Rennies made donations
                        at the various fund raisers held so that there could be an NTIF this year.

                        NTIF is suffering a steady decline for whatever reasons. There were not as
                        many vendors as there had been in past years. There were also not as many
                        patrons as I've seen there. I remember when I thought it was outrageous to
                        pay $8 ($12 for two days) to get into this faire with $3 more for parking.
                        Now it's $15 ($25 for two days) and $8 each day for parking. I walked into
                        the place feeling that was really steep but feeling good about the money
                        going to help keep the fest alive. I will forward my piece on what happened
                        to the powers that be... along with supporting emails from witnesses but do
                        not expect that to make any changes in what happened there but hey... I'm
                        gonna try.

                        The only true way I can make any difference is not spend my hard earned
                        money to support them. I am not calling for a boycott of the fest. That is
                        up to each person to decide for themselves. Had I heard about this... not
                        had it happen to me... considering the rank of the people involved, I would
                        make the same decision. I have heard from other people that they felt a
                        strong anti-rennie sentiment coming from the powers that be of NTIF.
                        Well... it's their choice on whether they spend their money to support the
                        fest or not. All I can say is that I will not go back. I choose to spend
                        my monies in places where customer service is not just a term.


                        Cindy Meeks aka
                        Violet MacComyn - Chieftress of the Clan
                        Proud Mother of Periwinkle MacComyn
                        Member of Chaos
                        Dread Violet - Shantywench of the Lady Inebriata
                        Queen Pandemonium's Fury
                        Counselor to the Queen
                        Wigglin' M'Crack
                        Handela Boner
                        Fury of Legions of Fire (not to be confused with Chaos' Fury)
                        M'Lady of the Memorable Mammories
                        Most Dangerous Bodice at NTIF
                      • reddogdamnit <dwjones@austin.rr.com>
                        I will play something of devil s advocate (sorry) my advice to everyone when dealing with the police, of any kind, is that you need only 5 words for your
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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                          I will play something of devil's advocate (sorry) my advice to
                          everyone when dealing with the police, of any kind, is that you need
                          only 5 words for your entire converstion with them. They are: yes no
                          thank you & sir. As in Yes sir. No sir & thank you sir. Don't say
                          anything else.Cops, by definition deal with the dirty end of the
                          stick day in and day out. On duty, most do not have a sense of humor.
                          Hell off duty a lotdon't have a sense of humor. Does it make what
                          they did right, No. But they have the badge, the cuffs and the gun.
                          Being arrested sucks, getting people out of jail sucks too.
                        • Selena <austinrengirl@yahoo.com>
                          Vi-- You have stated your case very well, m dear. I am confused, though on this issue of arrest. Okay-- so you PURCHASED a ticket, you are ALLOWED entry into
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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                            Vi--
                            You have stated your case very well, m'dear. I am confused, though on
                            this issue of arrest. Okay-- so you PURCHASED a ticket, you are
                            ALLOWED entry into the festival, I can assume (that since I know you)
                            that you were NOT belligerent & wasted & falling down drunk and since
                            you were not indecently exposed by their own admission, then WHY were
                            you threatened with criminal trespassing??? This gives me the
                            impression that they can just AT WILL kick someone (a paying
                            customer!) out and/or threaten to arrest them if they don't leave the
                            property after paying to get in, allowed entry by staff buying
                            merchandise! It almost walks the line of discrimination.... Since you
                            were willing to comply with their requests, yet were still wanting to
                            throw you out? An attorney could have a field day with that kind of
                            case.

                            -s

                            > Fourth, had I been taken to jail (which thank the gods I was not)
                            it would
                            > have been on criminal trespassing. I did get that much from one of
                            the
                            > officers. He admitted that I was not indecently exposed
                          • reddogdamnit <dwjones@austin.rr.com>
                            Almost certainly the ticket states that it is a license, which can be revoked. If it is revoked, you are asked to leave for what ever reason, the complaint
                            Message 13 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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                              Almost certainly the ticket states that it is a license, which can be
                              revoked. If it is revoked, you are asked to leave for what ever
                              reason, the complaint would be criminal trespass. I don't believe the
                              request to leave needs to even be reasonable, the only issue would be
                              one of discrimination, but don't hold me to that, I ain't a criminal
                              lawyer. It would appear that some one got a bug up their butt, it
                              isn't right but it happens. I was once asked to leave a bar after
                              arranging a toast to newly weds, and I thought I'd helped the
                              business by getting everybody to buy another round, but management
                              didn't think it was agood idea.
                            • Vamptasia
                              Sure does sound like it to me. Hey I think maybe by doing so you can get your point across descrimination and unfair treatment. Only thing that might hold
                              Message 14 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                Sure does sound like it to me.  Hey I think maybe by doing so you can get your point across descrimination and unfair treatment.  Only thing that might hold back is the fact they did refund the money only after more mental distress though. 
                                 
                                Worth a shot to show the managers/owners how you can't treat people that way *evil grin*
                                 
                                Just call one of those they don't get anything if you don't lawyers *evil grin*
                                 
                                Vamptasia
                                 
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                              • irritablemtn@netscape.net
                                Actually, she would have a hard time with discrimination since she was the only rennie asked to leave. Cheers aye, Mark ...
                                Message 15 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                  Actually, she would have a hard time with discrimination since she was the only rennie asked to leave.

                                  Cheers aye,

                                  Mark



                                  "Vamptasia" <vamptasia@...> wrote:

                                  >Sure does sound like it to me.  Hey I think maybe by doing so you can get
                                  >your point across descrimination and unfair treatment.  Only thing that
                                  >might hold back is the fact they did refund the money only after more mental
                                  >distress though.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Worth a shot to show the managers/owners how you can't treat people that way
                                  >*evil grin*
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Just call one of those they don't get anything if you don't lawyers *evil
                                  >grin*
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Vamptasia

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                                • Ron Sheehy
                                  Vaptasia, I don t know if you have looked around that much, but SCA does not have that much of a showing at the faires that I have seen. At TRF they have a
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                    Vaptasia, I don't know if you have looked around that much, but SCA does
                                    not have that much of a showing at the faires that I have seen. At TRF
                                    they have a booth area for the specific weekend participants and their
                                    shows, I have not really noticed them at Excal, and at Scarby. At
                                    Hawkwood, they vanished after the 3rd year. The SCA mostly have shows
                                    in their local area for townfolks, and their own advertised gatherings.
                                    My 2cents worth.

                                    As for watching out for underage kids: I have observed that most of us,
                                    even in an excessive drinkinging conditions at fair, usually watch out
                                    for them. (just the parent instinct in most of us.)

                                    Arie

                                    Vamptasia wrote:

                                    > The SCA is really influencing garb of faire. I noticed it myself.
                                    > But you know what I see these faires have an SCA area designated to
                                    > the local groups that is all there own. So more than likely there
                                    > taking over the faires because they are probably investing in them.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Ron Sheehy
                                    Cindy, I used to be a vendor at NTIF. They have replaced the vendor coordinator since I was there. I have also seen a change in the attitude there, that is
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                      Cindy, I used to be a vendor at NTIF. They have replaced the vendor
                                      coordinator since I was there. I have also seen a change in the
                                      attitude there, that is one of the reasons Lilith and I did not go this
                                      (or last year), besides the costs going up. You, and those who know us,
                                      know we dress and act appropriately for for the specific fairs that we
                                      attend, be it Muskogee, Norman, TRF, Scarby, etc. NTIF has been crossed
                                      off our list permantely.

                                      For those who do not know Cindy personally, Lilith and I do know that
                                      she is a person with a strong christian belief, and for this to have
                                      happened to her, I know upset her deeply.

                                      NTIF is not, nor will ever be in my future with it's current attitude,
                                      current location, and the downgrade of entertainment. One of the
                                      biggest draws for Lilith was the Irish and Celtic entertainers they were
                                      able bring in in the past. O-well, by NTIF.

                                      Arie

                                      Cindy Meeks wrote:

                                      >First and foremost, thanks guys for assuring me that I've not woken up
                                      >suddenly in some nightmare where such treatment is accepted.
                                      >
                                    • Breanne
                                      damn you and your voice of reason... lol. ;) ... From: Sir William [mailto:sirwilliam@houston.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 7:45 PM To:
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Mar 5, 2003
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                                        damn you and your voice of reason... lol. ;)

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Sir William [mailto:sirwilliam@...]
                                        Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 7:45 PM
                                        To: Renfolks@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [Renfolks] Re: Not gonna be there


                                        I hate to tell anyone this. But since it is private property, they do
                                        reserve the right to refuse service or admidance to anyone that they wish.
                                        It's crappy I know, but it is the way the judicial system opperates. Hey,
                                        let's boycott the judicial system!! LoL.
                                        I am sorry to hear that you were treated this way. There should be some
                                        human decency.

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: <austinrengirl@...>
                                        To: <Renfolks@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:13 AM
                                        Subject: [Renfolks] Re: Not gonna be there


                                        > Vi--
                                        > You have stated your case very well, m'dear. I am confused, though on
                                        > this issue of arrest. Okay-- so you PURCHASED a ticket, you are
                                        > ALLOWED entry into the festival, I can assume (that since I know you)
                                        > that you were NOT belligerent & wasted & falling down drunk and since
                                        > you were not indecently exposed by their own admission, then WHY were
                                        > you threatened with criminal trespassing??? This gives me the
                                        > impression that they can just AT WILL kick someone (a paying
                                        > customer!) out and/or threaten to arrest them if they don't leave the
                                        > property after paying to get in, allowed entry by staff buying
                                        > merchandise! It almost walks the line of discrimination.... Since you
                                        > were willing to comply with their requests, yet were still wanting to
                                        > throw you out? An attorney could have a field day with that kind of
                                        > case.
                                        >
                                        > -s
                                        >
                                        > > Fourth, had I been taken to jail (which thank the gods I was not)
                                        > it would
                                        > > have been on criminal trespassing. I did get that much from one of
                                        > the
                                        > > officers. He admitted that I was not indecently exposed
                                        >
                                        >
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                                      • Sir William
                                        I hate to tell anyone this. But since it is private property, they do reserve the right to refuse service or admidance to anyone that they wish. It s crappy I
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Mar 5, 2003
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                                          I hate to tell anyone this. But since it is private property, they do
                                          reserve the right to refuse service or admidance to anyone that they wish.
                                          It's crappy I know, but it is the way the judicial system opperates. Hey,
                                          let's boycott the judicial system!! LoL.
                                          I am sorry to hear that you were treated this way. There should be some
                                          human decency.

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: <austinrengirl@...>
                                          To: <Renfolks@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:13 AM
                                          Subject: [Renfolks] Re: Not gonna be there


                                          > Vi--
                                          > You have stated your case very well, m'dear. I am confused, though on
                                          > this issue of arrest. Okay-- so you PURCHASED a ticket, you are
                                          > ALLOWED entry into the festival, I can assume (that since I know you)
                                          > that you were NOT belligerent & wasted & falling down drunk and since
                                          > you were not indecently exposed by their own admission, then WHY were
                                          > you threatened with criminal trespassing??? This gives me the
                                          > impression that they can just AT WILL kick someone (a paying
                                          > customer!) out and/or threaten to arrest them if they don't leave the
                                          > property after paying to get in, allowed entry by staff buying
                                          > merchandise! It almost walks the line of discrimination.... Since you
                                          > were willing to comply with their requests, yet were still wanting to
                                          > throw you out? An attorney could have a field day with that kind of
                                          > case.
                                          >
                                          > -s
                                          >
                                          > > Fourth, had I been taken to jail (which thank the gods I was not)
                                          > it would
                                          > > have been on criminal trespassing. I did get that much from one of
                                          > the
                                          > > officers. He admitted that I was not indecently exposed
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > Renfolks-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • M Mueller
                                          Arie is completely correct in this. I m a card carrying member of the SCA and a Rennie and an Excalibur Faire employee. The SCA does not have any influence
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Mar 16, 2003
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                                            Arie is completely correct in this. I'm a card carrying member of
                                            the SCA and a Rennie and an Excalibur Faire employee. The SCA does
                                            not have any influence at all at any Faire, at least not in Texas.
                                            In fact, the only Faire the SCA had a presence at all - TRF -
                                            informed them at the end of this season they had one weekend to clear
                                            out their stuff, their association with the Faire was ending. The
                                            SCA had been a part of TRF since the very beginning, but the Powers
                                            That Be decided their space would be better used for rent paying,
                                            revenue generating booths. So I think it's the almighty dollar, not
                                            the SCA or any other themed group that has influence with the Faires
                                            & Festivals that are cracking down on Rennies.

                                            Just like NERO, Amtgard, Dagorhir, HFS, IFGS, or many others, the SCA
                                            is one of many groups pursuing a dream in their own way.

                                            Monette


                                            --- In Renfolks@yahoogroups.com, Ron Sheehy <arie@w...> wrote:
                                            > Vaptasia, I don't know if you have looked around that much, but SCA
                                            does
                                            > not have that much of a showing at the faires that I have seen. At
                                            TRF
                                            > they have a booth area for the specific weekend participants and
                                            their
                                            > shows, I have not really noticed them at Excal, and at Scarby. At
                                            > Hawkwood, they vanished after the 3rd year. The SCA mostly have
                                            shows
                                            > in their local area for townfolks, and their own advertised
                                            gatherings.
                                            > My 2cents worth.
                                            >
                                            > As for watching out for underage kids: I have observed that most
                                            of us,
                                            > even in an excessive drinkinging conditions at fair, usually watch
                                            out
                                            > for them. (just the parent instinct in most of us.)
                                            >
                                            > Arie
                                            >
                                            > Vamptasia wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > The SCA is really influencing garb of faire. I noticed it
                                            myself.
                                            > > But you know what I see these faires have an SCA area designated
                                            to
                                            > > the local groups that is all there own. So more than likely
                                            there
                                            > > taking over the faires because they are probably investing in
                                            them.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
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