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Re: [Remembering_The_Kanji] How do you follow "Remembering the Kana" book?

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  • steve smith
    ... Personally, I didn t find Learning the Kana to be very useful. Both Hiriagana and Katakana are much easier to learn than Kanji and you will use both a
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 2, 2009
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      inquisitiveman2002 wrote:
      I'm getting confused on how the format of this book works. I am reading the beginning of the first page and it tells me "You should now be in the middle of Lesson 1. If you are not, go at once to page 51 and start from the beginning". You go that page and then it tells you with a rectangular box to go to that page and then It keeps telling me to go to another page with another rectangular box and with two arrows one going to the right saying "go to page x" and then a left one with a number.. Can anyone clarify this? Thanks.
        

      Personally, I didn't find "Learning the Kana" to be very useful.  Both Hiriagana and Katakana are  much easier to learn than Kanji and you will use both a great deal.  And each only has something like 100 characters.

      There are a number of online resources you might find useful.  There is a really good discussion of the Japanese Writing System on Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese.  Also, remember stroke order is important.  There are several sites that offer animated kana which I found to be very useful.

      I have used the Japanese for busy people Kana book to teach a neighbor Kana and found it useful.

      Good luck.

      Steve S.
    • Joe Wright
      On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:42 PM, inquisitiveman2002 ... Actually, pages 51-52 explain the various elements you re seeing on the other pages: specifically, the
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 2, 2009
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        On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:42 PM, inquisitiveman2002
        <inquisitiveman2002@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm getting confused on how the format of this book works. I am reading the
        > beginning of the first page and it tells me "You should now be in the middle
        > of Lesson 1. If you are not, go at once to page 51 and start from the
        > beginning". You go that page and then it tells you with a rectangular box to
        > go to that page and then It keeps telling me to go to another page with
        > another rectangular box and with two arrows one going to the right saying
        > "go to page x" and then a left one with a number.. Can anyone clarify this?
        > Thanks.

        Actually, pages 51-52 explain the various elements you're seeing on
        the other pages: specifically, the {number + left arrow} is the page
        from which you have just come (i.e. the previous page) and the {right
        arrow + number} is the next page in the lessons you're following.

        However, have you read the General Introduction? As that introduction
        describes the book, 'The syllabaries are arranged in their "dictionary
        order", not in the order in which you will learn them. Following the
        instructions on each page will send you skipping forwards and
        backwards as you make your way through each lesson.'

        "Remembering the Kana" does not teach you the kana according to
        dictionary order: a-i-u-e-o, ka-ki-ku-ke-ko, etc. Instead you learn
        the kana out of order (or, if you prefer, you might call it "Heisig
        order"), grouped in different ways which may or may not aid your
        memory. In Lesson 1 you begin with pages 51 and 52, which explain
        what you'll see, then page 53 instructs you to go to page 46 and learn
        ん (n), then to page 2 to learn い (i), following the chain until you
        return to page 53 for a debriefing/review. That's Lesson 1. For
        Lesson 2 you continue at page 55, which sends you to page 40, which
        sends you to page 18, etc. After 6 of those lessons, you have learned
        the hiragana.

        As with "Remembering the Kanji", the usefulness of this method will
        depend on your own learning style. Personally, I had made several
        different attempts to learn the hiragana, and on my best attempt I
        spent at least 4-6 hours trying to memorize the first 15 hiragana in
        dictionary order by rote, using flashcards. A few days later I
        couldn't remember any of them. Then I spent about 6 hours with
        "Remembering the Kana" over a weekend, and after that was able to read
        and write both hiragana and katakana. It wasn't magic: I still needed
        continued exposure to build familiarity, but it was a far better and
        quicker start than I'd been able to achieve through rote memorization.

        Best wishes,

        Joe Wright
      • inquisitiveman2002
        ... Thanks Joe for the explanation. I was just a bit confused with the format and the alphabet through me off. It is much clearer. The reason i chose this book
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 2, 2009
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          --- In Remembering_The_Kanji@yahoogroups.com, Joe Wright <jmwright@...> wrote:
          >
          > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:42 PM, inquisitiveman2002
          > <inquisitiveman2002@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I'm getting confused on how the format of this book works. I am reading the
          > > beginning of the first page and it tells me "You should now be in the middle
          > > of Lesson 1. If you are not, go at once to page 51 and start from the
          > > beginning". You go that page and then it tells you with a rectangular box to
          > > go to that page and then It keeps telling me to go to another page with
          > > another rectangular box and with two arrows one going to the right saying
          > > "go to page x" and then a left one with a number.. Can anyone clarify this?
          > > Thanks.
          >
          > Actually, pages 51-52 explain the various elements you're seeing on
          > the other pages: specifically, the {number + left arrow} is the page
          > from which you have just come (i.e. the previous page) and the {right
          > arrow + number} is the next page in the lessons you're following.
          >
          > However, have you read the General Introduction? As that introduction
          > describes the book, 'The syllabaries are arranged in their "dictionary
          > order", not in the order in which you will learn them. Following the
          > instructions on each page will send you skipping forwards and
          > backwards as you make your way through each lesson.'
          >
          > "Remembering the Kana" does not teach you the kana according to
          > dictionary order: a-i-u-e-o, ka-ki-ku-ke-ko, etc. Instead you learn
          > the kana out of order (or, if you prefer, you might call it "Heisig
          > order"), grouped in different ways which may or may not aid your
          > memory. In Lesson 1 you begin with pages 51 and 52, which explain
          > what you'll see, then page 53 instructs you to go to page 46 and learn
          > ¤ó (n), then to page 2 to learn ¤¤ (i), following the chain until you
          > return to page 53 for a debriefing/review. That's Lesson 1. For
          > Lesson 2 you continue at page 55, which sends you to page 40, which
          > sends you to page 18, etc. After 6 of those lessons, you have learned
          > the hiragana.
          >
          > As with "Remembering the Kanji", the usefulness of this method will
          > depend on your own learning style. Personally, I had made several
          > different attempts to learn the hiragana, and on my best attempt I
          > spent at least 4-6 hours trying to memorize the first 15 hiragana in
          > dictionary order by rote, using flashcards. A few days later I
          > couldn't remember any of them. Then I spent about 6 hours with
          > "Remembering the Kana" over a weekend, and after that was able to read
          > and write both hiragana and katakana. It wasn't magic: I still needed
          > continued exposure to build familiarity, but it was a far better and
          > quicker start than I'd been able to achieve through rote memorization.
          >
          > Best wishes,
          >
          > Joe Wright
          >

          Thanks Joe for the explanation. I was just a bit confused with the format and the alphabet through me off. It is much clearer. The reason i chose this book was the rave reviews of his RTK obviously, so i thought anything written by him should be the same.
        • inquisitiveman2002
          ... Thanks Steve. I have also found other sites that teach Kana. Some are games to learn the language also. I really wanted a formal way to learn though, but i
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 2, 2009
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            --- In Remembering_The_Kanji@yahoogroups.com, steve smith <sjs@...> wrote:
            >
            > inquisitiveman2002 wrote:
            > > I'm getting confused on how the format of this book works. I am reading the beginning of the first page and it tells me "You should now be in the middle of Lesson 1. If you are not, go at once to page 51 and start from the beginning". You go that page and then it tells you with a rectangular box to go to that page and then It keeps telling me to go to another page with another rectangular box and with two arrows one going to the right saying "go to page x" and then a left one with a number.. Can anyone clarify this? Thanks.
            > >
            >
            > Personally, I didn't find "Learning the Kana" to be very useful. Both
            > Hiriagana and Katakana are much easier to learn than Kanji and you will
            > use both a great deal. And each only has something like 100 characters.
            >
            > There are a number of online resources you might find useful. There is
            > a really good discussion of the Japanese Writing System on Tae Kim's
            > Guide to Japanese <http://www.guidetojapanese.org/>. Also, remember
            > stroke order is important. There are several sites that offer animated
            > kana which I found to be very useful.
            >
            > I have used the Japanese for busy people Kana book to teach a neighbor
            > Kana and found it useful.
            >
            > Good luck.
            >
            > Steve S.
            >
            Thanks Steve. I have also found other sites that teach Kana. Some are games to learn the language also. I really wanted a formal way to learn though, but i will continue to use other sites and sources to supplement my study. The key is finding a way to remember this, so the funner it is to learn, the better chance of remembering what i learned. I also downloaded Anki, but learning how to use that should be a course in itself...lol

            Darren
          • steve smith
            ... Anki is a nice piece of software. It s like lots of other really powerful software though -- it has lots of options. Don t worry about them though
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 2, 2009
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              inquisitiveman2002 wrote:
              Thanks Steve. I have also found other sites that teach Kana. Some are games to learn the language also. I really wanted a formal way to learn though, but i will continue to use other sites and sources to supplement my study. The key is finding a way to remember this, so the funner it is to learn, the better chance of remembering what i learned. I also downloaded Anki, but learning how to use that should be a course in itself...lol
              
              Darren
                

              Anki is a nice piece of software.  It's like lots of other really powerful software though -- it has lots of options.  Don't worry about them though because initially you will only use maybe 20% of what the program will do and that part is easy to learn.  You will gradually learn more and more of the features as time goes by.  Don't let the program overwhelm you...
              \
              Steve S.
            • Michael Andy
              i used this one, unfortunately it doesn t show stroke order but it s very good for a free product. ... -- Michael Andreacchio
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 3, 2009
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                i used this one, unfortunately it doesn't show stroke order but it's
                very good for a free product.

                2009/6/3 steve smith <sjs@...>:
                >
                >
                > inquisitiveman2002 wrote:
                >
                > Thanks Steve. I have also found other sites that teach Kana. Some are games
                > to learn the language also. I really wanted a formal way to learn though,
                > but i will continue to use other sites and sources to supplement my study.
                > The key is finding a way to remember this, so the funner it is to learn, the
                > better chance of remembering what i learned. I also downloaded Anki, but
                > learning how to use that should be a course in itself...lol
                >
                > Darren
                >
                >
                > Anki is a nice piece of software.  It's like lots of other really powerful
                > software though -- it has lots of options.  Don't worry about them though
                > because initially you will only use maybe 20% of what the program will do
                > and that part is easy to learn.  You will gradually learn more and more of
                > the features as time goes by.  Don't let the program overwhelm you...
                > \
                > Steve S.
                >



                --
                Michael Andreacchio
              • Michael Andy
                http://www.dragonmedia.us/programs/kana.php sorry forgot to post the link! ... -- Michael Andreacchio
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 3, 2009
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                  http://www.dragonmedia.us/programs/kana.php

                  sorry forgot to post the link!

                  2009/6/4 Michael Andy <andy82@...>:
                  > i used this one, unfortunately it doesn't show stroke order but it's
                  > very good for a free product.
                  >
                  > 2009/6/3 steve smith <sjs@...>:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> inquisitiveman2002 wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Thanks Steve. I have also found other sites that teach Kana. Some are games
                  >> to learn the language also. I really wanted a formal way to learn though,
                  >> but i will continue to use other sites and sources to supplement my study.
                  >> The key is finding a way to remember this, so the funner it is to learn, the
                  >> better chance of remembering what i learned. I also downloaded Anki, but
                  >> learning how to use that should be a course in itself...lol
                  >>
                  >> Darren
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Anki is a nice piece of software.  It's like lots of other really powerful
                  >> software though -- it has lots of options.  Don't worry about them though
                  >> because initially you will only use maybe 20% of what the program will do
                  >> and that part is easy to learn.  You will gradually learn more and more of
                  >> the features as time goes by.  Don't let the program overwhelm you...
                  >> \
                  >> Steve S.
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Michael Andreacchio
                  >



                  --
                  Michael Andreacchio
                • oneangrymobster
                  There s a free Kana learning tool on Smart.fm. Just search for kana and it ll bring it up. Also, I found a game called knuckles that s pretty good. It works
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 5, 2009
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                    There's a free Kana learning tool on Smart.fm. Just search for "kana" and it'll bring it up.

                    Also, I found a game called knuckles that's pretty good. It works similarly to the thing on smart.fm, except it's a game that uses knuckles the hedgehog (like sonic, sort-of).. and is in an old-school video game format... and you battle creatures that "attack" you with kana. it's free. you can download it from thepiratebay or demonoid. i forget which one. :)

                    also, there's some flash cards by white rabbit press that go over the kana really well.. and they even give you JLPT Vocab to learn, they show you the stroke order and etc.. they cost between 18.00 & 25.00 depending on where you shop, but are very high quality. http://www.thejapanshop.com/product.php?productid=16743&cat=108&page=1 < here's a link to the cheapest ones i've found outside of ebay! :)

                    i used the flash cards, smart.fm and the video game to learn my kana... i also printed off some free writing sheets and practiced writing them tons of times.

                    if you would like to learn kana while also learning how to say things in japanese, i recommend the "Japanese From Zero" series by George Trombley. Book 1 teaches you the hiragana. Book 2 teaches you katakana. You get the same stuff in the book as you do with his online course.. The answer key is included in the book, it's got a nice index.. You learn various vocabulary (like colors, numbers, animals, household items, body parts, etc) and also get some dialogue.. You can see your vocabulary words in hiragana, katakana, kanji and English. They introduce you to the hiragana set by set and replace words with the kana as you progress through the lessons.. They also give you some writing practice areas. By the time you finish the first book, you will know hiragana front words and backwards. When you finish the second book, you will know katakana frontwords and backwords. On the 3rd book, they start using Kanji... By the time you finish with the first book, you will have built up a nice vocabulary, learned how to ask what things are, where they are, who someone is or what something is.. You'll also learn days of the week, months, telling time, some technical terms (computer terms).. As well as stuff like counting from zero to a million & etc.. It covers a lot of stuff & the books are relatively short! You can also join the website & be able to listen to the sound files & download their online TV shows & whatnot.

                    Hope that helps!

                    ~ Candy








                    --- In Remembering_The_Kanji@yahoogroups.com, "inquisitiveman2002" <inquisitiveman2002@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm getting confused on how the format of this book works. I am reading the beginning of the first page and it tells me "You should now be in the middle of Lesson 1. If you are not, go at once to page 51 and start from the beginning". You go that page and then it tells you with a rectangular box to go to that page and then It keeps telling me to go to another page with another rectangular box and with two arrows one going to the right saying "go to page x" and then a left one with a number.. Can anyone clarify this? Thanks.
                    >
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