Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

* * * Metformin is definitely not sugar !

Expand Messages
  • ltkpn
    Ellis, Metformin is definitely not sugar! I don t know where you got that information. There s not even 6 carbon atoms in one molecule of metformin, while
    Message 1 of 9 , May 31, 2005
      Ellis, Metformin is definitely not sugar! I don't know where
      you got that information.

      There's not even 6 carbon atoms in one molecule of metformin,
      while glucose has a 6 carbon cycle.

      See, metformin's chemical formula here:

      http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/metformi.htm

      = ltkpn

      [Hello ltkpn... well... as I said... I was guessing... but I
      will tell you why this occurred to me... As I wrote, I bought a
      1985 edition of "Joslin: Diabetes Mellitus"... There is a
      chart of the "best" secretagogues for insulin release...
      I was surprised to find the word "secretagogue" used for insulin
      release, as until now I had only found it used to refer to HGH
      release... but here it is in a 1985 diabetes textbook for doctors.

      It says at the top of the chart: "Metabolism and Insulin Release
      with combinations of Glucose and Fructose" and then it has
      different combinations of Glucose and Fructose "stimulus
      combination" and then the results. The "combination" that
      worked the "best" was 8 parts glucose, 27.5 parts fructose
      which is why I decided I would even bet metformin is two parts
      glucose to seven parts fructose.

      In any case, it would be rather Machiavellic, wouldn't it, to
      give diabetics SUGAR to stimulate a release of insulin? I
      thought to myself that would be just like an unscrupulous
      person or company, to sell diabetics a little poison and claim
      it is good for them. It would definitely stimulate the release
      of insulin, so I thought to myself: why didn't I think of this
      before?

      So, ltkpn, if metformin isn't sugar then what IS metformin?
      And how and why does it cause release of insulin? Is it possible
      that once it combines with water in the intestines it forms
      sugar? Because "sugar" or glucose is definitely what stimulates
      the pancreas to release insulin.

      In any case, I am against stimulating the pancreas to release
      insulin, since I don't think that is very wise. I am trying to
      prevent my pancreas from overworking on the theory that I might
      be extending its life by keeping it still if I can inject the
      right amount of insulin at the proper time.

      It would really be extra-cruel to give diabetics "Glucophage" if
      it is or becomes a type of sugar, wouldn't it? Please set my mind
      at ease and tell me how you would describe metformin, does it even
      look like a type of sugar or carbohydrate minus water to you?

      (I can read that chemical structure in the link you give us, but I
      don't know enough about the structure of sugar or carbohydrates, or
      what becomes when you add water to metformin... I know that
      carbohydrates means: "carbon plus water..." Would "metformin
      hydrochloride plus water" give you "carbon plus water"?

      - Ellis ]



      Ellis wrote:

      > Do you know what metformin IS??? Surprise! Read my next post,
      > coming soon. Again, I am guessing, but: metformin is SUGAR!!!
      >
      > Pure, unadulterated GLUCOSE + FRUCTOSE, which is 100%
      > SUGAR in my book... I will even bet it is two parts Glucose
      > to seven parts Fructose! (I'll tell you soon how I reached
      > this conclusion, in a different post....)
    • cathy.digitalfashion
      My doctor wrote my husband a prescription for Androgel 5% but it costs $225 for a months supply, I heard it is much less expensive from compounding pharmacist,
      Message 2 of 9 , May 31, 2005
        My doctor wrote my husband a prescription for Androgel
        5% but it costs $225 for a months supply, I heard it
        is much less expensive from compounding pharmacist,
        can anyone recommend one?

        Thanks,



        Cathy Smith


        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com
      • Mike
        Metformin does NOT stimultate insulin secretion, is not a sugar, and does not turn into a sugar. It is a hydrochloride. Metformin improves glucose tolerance
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 3, 2005
          Metformin does NOT stimultate insulin secretion, is not
          a sugar, and does not turn into a sugar. It is a hydrochloride.

          Metformin improves glucose tolerance in patients with
          type 2 diabetes, lowering basal and postprandial plasma
          glucose. It works in a way different from other oral
          antihyperglycemic meds. Metformin decreases hepatic
          glucose production, decreases intestinal absorption of
          glucose, and improves insulin sensitivity by increasing
          peripheral glucose uptake and utilization.

          Unlike sulfonylureas, metformin does not produce
          hypoglycemia in either patients with type 2 diabetes or
          normal subjects and does not cause hyperinsulinemia.

          With metformin therapy, insulin secretion remains unchanged
          while fasting insulin levels and day-long plasma insulin
          response may actually decrease. I think Metformin is one
          of the better and safer drugs out there.

          Ellis wrote: In any case, it would be rather Machiavellic,
          wouldn't it, to give diabetics SUGAR to stimulate a release
          of insulin?

          Ellis, you must be aware that your statement above is the
          norm, not the exception in the pharmaceutical business.

          Pharmacy companies are extremely Machiavellian. That is,
          the pharmaceutical industry will trade harm for profits
          in a heartbeat, and have for decades with eyes wide open.

          It's all a matter of how far they can push that formula before
          there is a sufficient backlash to take a drug off the market
          or change research transparency so that people know what is
          going on (ie: Vioxx, Celebrex, etc, etc).

          Drug companies do not see you as their friend, they see you as
          a consumer, pure and simple. No different in any aspect than
          a tobacco company.

          I'm a former employee who worked in the research labs and
          clinical studies units at the Eli Lilly world headquarters
          in Indianapolis. The last thing one wants to do is be
          'Pollyannish' about drug companies. That is, if you want a
          realistic viewpoint.

          ltkpn wrote:

          Ellis, Metformin is definitely not sugar! I don't know where
          you got that information.

          There's not even 6 carbon atoms in one molecule of metformin,
          while glucose has a 6 carbon cycle.

          See, metformin's chemical formula here:

          http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/metformi.htm

          = ltkpn

          [Hello ltkpn... well... as I said... I was guessing... but I
          will tell you why this occurred to me... As I wrote, I bought a
          1985 edition of "Joslin: Diabetes Mellitus"... There is a
          chart of the "best" secretagogues for insulin release...
          I was surprised to find the word "secretagogue" used for insulin
          release, as until now I had only found it used to refer to HGH
          release... but here it is in a 1985 diabetes textbook for doctors.

          It says at the top of the chart: "Metabolism and Insulin Release
          with combinations of Glucose and Fructose" and then it has
          different combinations of Glucose and Fructose "stimulus
          combination" and then the results. The "combination" that
          worked the "best" was 8 parts glucose, 27.5 parts fructose
          which is why I decided I would even bet metformin is two parts
          glucose to seven parts fructose.

          In any case, it would be rather Machiavellic, wouldn't it, to
          give diabetics SUGAR to stimulate a release of insulin? I
          thought to myself that would be just like an unscrupulous
          person or company, to sell diabetics a little poison and claim
          it is good for them. It would definitely stimulate the release
          of insulin, so I thought to myself: why didn't I think of this
          before?

          So, ltkpn, if metformin isn't sugar then what IS metformin?
          And how and why does it cause release of insulin? Is it possible
          that once it combines with water in the intestines it forms
          sugar? Because "sugar" or glucose is definitely what stimulates
          the pancreas to release insulin.

          In any case, I am against stimulating the pancreas to release
          insulin, since I don't think that is very wise. I am trying to
          prevent my pancreas from overworking on the theory that I might
          be extending its life by keeping it still if I can inject the
          right amount of insulin at the proper time.

          It would really be extra-cruel to give diabetics "Glucophage" if
          it is or becomes a type of sugar, wouldn't it? Please set my mind
          at ease and tell me how you would describe metformin, does it even
          look like a type of sugar or carbohydrate minus water to you?

          (I can read that chemical structure in the link you give us, but I
          don't know enough about the structure of sugar or carbohydrates, or
          what becomes when you add water to metformin... I know that
          carbohydrates means: "carbon plus water..." Would "metformin
          hydrochloride plus water" give you "carbon plus water"?

          - Ellis ]



          Ellis wrote:

          > Do you know what metformin IS??? Surprise! Read my next post,
          > coming soon. Again, I am guessing, but: metformin is SUGAR!!!
          >
          > Pure, unadulterated GLUCOSE + FRUCTOSE, which is 100%
          > SUGAR in my book... I will even bet it is two parts Glucose
          > to seven parts Fructose! (I'll tell you soon how I reached
          > this conclusion, in a different post....)








          ________________________________________________________________________
          ________________________________________________________________________

          Message: 2
          Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 12:29:48 -0800
          From: Stuart Cracraft
          Subject: Meter?

          Is there a workable blood glucose monitoring meter that does not
          require blood or urine collection, keeps a record, and can handle
          both very high and very low levels?

          [Man, you want everything, don't you? You forgot to say, cheap
          too.

          Let me see... keeps a record, no problem... very high and very
          low levels, I suppose that's possible... but that does not
          require blood or urine collection... that's more difficult...

          The only way to get the reading would have to be through the skin,
          since what you want is to know how much sugar is in the blood,
          but you don't want to know it by measuring the blood... There
          might be some way to tell if there is sugar in the blood by
          measuring electrical resistance through the skin, but I can only
          imagine it would be less accurate than by testing a tiny drop of
          blood directly.

          Another problem is that the results might not be similar to what
          I and most other people are getting, which is with a Roche Accucheck
          meter or a Johnson and Johnson meter, and even these don't give the
          same results... so you would have a really hard time interpreting
          your results.

          There are some sensors, like a watch that is strapped tightly
          to the wrist, and it senses when a diabetic is hypoglycemic and
          sounds an alarm. These are a lot more expensive than a glucose
          meter, and I understand they have to be really tight so that the
          plate makes contact with the skin, and it irritates some people.

          But they just sense really low blood glucose and then they sound
          an alarm. I don"t think that they are to the point where they
          can give you an accurate reading, nor is that the intention...
          they are meant to prevent death from hypoglycemia, especially at
          night when the person is sleeping and you can"t tell that he is
          actually unconscious and going through a crisis.

          Does anybody know if there is a blood glucose monitoring meter
          that is accurate and does not require blood or urine?

          Thanks for writing... Why do you want a meter that doesn"t
          work with blood?
          - Ellis]





          ________________________________________________________________________
          ________________________________________________________________________

          Message: 3
          Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 20:11:32 -0000
          From: "gfosmo"
          Subject: Re: How to counter the 'HGH is asking for diabetes' argument?

          I was thinking the same thing, that he was in a very controlled
          environment. He thought that the theory was that it makes you more
          sensitive to insulin. He was more in it for the money at that
          time.

          I'm trying to talk him into trying HGH again and see if he gets
          the same results outside of a controlled experiment.

          [O.K... let us know what happens, if he tries it. - Ellis]


          --- In Rejuvenation@yahoogroups.com, "gfosmo" wrote:
          > My brother is diabetic and was enrolled in a clinical trial about
          > a year ago to test whether HGH would reduce insulin needs.
          > He told me they attached an automatic pump to him that would
          > inject a certain amount of HGH everytime his bloodsugar started
          > rising.
          >
          > This was the Phase One part of the trial where he had to stay at
          > the facility for two weeks so they could monitor everything
          > constantly and he got paid.
          >
          > He said it lowered his insulin usage down to almost nothing.
          >
          > Other then that he said he has never heard anything else about
          > it.
          >
          > [That´s very interesting... I don´t see that lowering insulin
          > needs is very important, I see that lowering blood glucose levels
          > is more important, and I suppose that the way to lower insulin
          > needs is to lower blood glucose... but it is interesting anyways,
          > to see that by injecting HGH his insulin usage was lowered to
          > "almost nothing".
          >
          > I wonder why that happened? It shouldn´t be related... Maybe it
          > happened in part because he was forced to stay in the facility for
          > two weeks so they could monitor everything constantly, thus he
          > didn´t eat the bad food that he otherwise might have eaten?
          >
          > Whatever, I suppose their report will be that HGH helped to bring
          > down the need for insulin, which I think might be a mistake...
          >
          > But the message of their report will be the right message: that
          > GH does not cause an increase in the need for insulin.
          >
          > As we say in Mexico, the Lord works in mysterious ways. I don´t
          > think HGH lowers the need for insulin, but if that is what they
          > will say in their report, I will agree with them.
          >
          > Thanks for sending us this. - Ellis]
          >
          >





          ________________________________________________________________________
          ________________________________________________________________________

          Message: 4
          Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:27:10 -0700 (PDT)
          From: "cathy.digitalfashion"
          Subject: Can anyone recommend a compounding Pharmacy for Testosterone Gel/cream?

          My doctor wrote my husband a prescription for Androgel
          5% but it costs $225 for a months supply, I heard it
          is much less expensive from compounding pharmacist,
          can anyone recommend one?

          Thanks,



          Cathy Smith


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail.yahoo.com





          ________________________________________________________________________
          ________________________________________________________________________


          See my personal anti-aging program which you are welcome to follow, here:

          http://www.rajeun.net/rejuvenation.html

          Please help make it easy to subscribe to Rejuvenation. Send this URL to people you would like to subscribe to this discussion:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/Rejuvenation


          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Yahoo! Groups Links




          ------------------------------------------------------------------------





          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail.yahoo.com
        • LeeSims
          Cathy- I am an 80 year old male with five years experience with Testosterone; first with sublingual lozenges then transdermal cream and now Intramuscular
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 3, 2005
            Cathy-

            I am an 80 year old male with five years experience with Testosterone;
            first with sublingual lozenges then transdermal cream and now
            Intramuscular injections (upper quadriceps region) of Testosterone
            Cypionate.

            The first two caused an astronomical increase in my DHT
            (dihydrotestosterone) to over 6000. Testosterone Cypionate does not
            have this effect.

            I inject, on a weekly basis, 80mg (0.40ml of a 200mg/ml mix) of
            Testosterone Cypionate. This brings my Free Testosterone into the
            upper half of the reference range and restores my libido to where
            it was decades ago.

            From what I have read, the half life of Testosterone Cypionate in
            the body is about one week.

            The initial cost of T Cyp through my doctor was $40 for a 10ml vial
            which is good for 25 injections. T Cyp is generic and cheap. As far
            as I know, it does not have any adverse side effects and is used by
            the Cenegenics Medical Institute in Las Vegas in their male hormone
            replacement program.

            It now costs me a $10 copay through BC/BS insurance
            for a 10ml vial. I use a 25G 5/8 inch needle syringe.

            Lee

            [Hello Lee... I suggest you should also test for estradiol, and
            if it is "high" which it might be because you are taking
            testosterone, then take Arimidex which will lower estradiol
            without any side effect. Otherwise, you are right on the button.

            Are you also taking injectible growth hormone, or any other
            hormones? Since you are 80 years old and well, I want you to
            stay well. See your doctor and ask for a blood test and get a
            Complete Blood Count, and a blood chemistry, and a PSA... also
            test for INSULIN, (do not confuse with "glucose") and Hb-A1c.

            If all is well there, then you are in great shape. If hematocrit
            and hemoglobin are low, you have to tell your doctor to please
            get them up.

            Congratulations for being well and staying well longer than
            most men your age... "When I grow up, I want to be like Lee
            Sims..."

            Thanks for writing.

            - Ellis]
          • Mike
            Ellis, below is the chemical structure of metformin. As you can see, it looks nothing like a sugar. Sugars don t contain nitrogen, and metformin only has
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 4, 2005

              Ellis, below is the chemical structure of metformin.  As you can see, it looks nothing like a sugar.  Sugars don't contain nitrogen, and metformin only has five carbons.  Glucose, the simplist sugar, has six, and they are configured in a totally different way in all three sterioisomers.

              Metformin hydrochloride is a white to off-white crystalline compound with a molecular formula of C4H11N5 • HCl and a molecular weight of 165.63. Metformin hydrochloride is freely soluble in water and is practically insoluble in acetone, ether, and chloroform. The pKa of metformin is 12.4. The pH of a 1% aqueous solution of metformin hydrochloride is 6.68.  Its structural formula is:


              Interesting research data on metformin and non-diabetics:

              Once Off the Drug Many Participants Immediately Became Diabetic

              The conclusion that the use of Metformin alone without changes in diet might prevent diabetes was undercut by a follow-up study which found that within weeks of going off the drug, a quarter of that apparent risk reduction disappeared, when a surprising number of people in the Metformin group developed diabetic blood sugar levels as soon as they came off the drug. This suggested that the drug had no effect on the underlying process leading to diabetes, but had only suppressed peoples' blood sugar levels while the underlying mechanism of damage went on unchecked. Unlike the original finding that Metformin appeared to prevent diabetes, this later finding received no play in the media and many doctors are still unaware of it.

              So the fact seems to be that taking Metformin might slow the progress of blood sugar deterioration by a very small amount, but it does not bring blood sugars down to the normal level that might truly prevent diabetes or prevent the damage done by abnormally high blood sugars.

              The reason for this is made clear by the findings of the university of Texas researchers: The big problem with Metformin is that it works best when blood sugars are high--and in people who are obese. In people of near-normal weight the UT researchers found that at normal blood sugar levels Metformin actually decreased rather than enhanced glucose uptake. This is in line with the finding that the primary way in which Metformin appears to work to lower fasting blood sugars is by limiting the production of glucose by the liver--a phenomenon more likely to occur in people whose fasting blood sugar is high--much closer to the ADA diabetes diagnostic cutoff than to normal.

              That this is true was made clear by the note in the published report on the Diabetes Prevention Program study that "The effect of Metformin was less with a lower body-mass index or a lower fasting glucose concentration than with higher values for those variables."
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.