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* * * Re: HGH and blood pressure

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  • davcor2nd@stargate.net
    Linda: If you look at Ellis pages, you will find an article from Big Doc. He reported the same effect and said that taking clonidine .2mg would stop the anti
    Message 1 of 12 , May 29, 2003
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      Linda:

      If you look at Ellis' pages, you will find an article from Big Doc.
      He reported the same effect and said that taking clonidine .2mg would
      stop the anti diuretic hormone ADH from building up thus losing some
      water retention and dropping the blood pressure. This does work.

      Any thoughts/experience Ellis or group?

      Dave

      [Thanks, Dave, for pointing this out. I copy and paste the relevant
      part of that page below, Big Doc's Protocol For Taking HGH, which I
      put together as a tribute to Big Doc, from notes taken by me in the
      week that I was with him in Can Cun (about 8 months before his death
      from a heart attack) and from e-mails he wrote to me, or posts to
      Rejuvenation.

      See the whole page, which was very interesting for me to re-read:

      http://www.rajeun.net/bigdoc.html

      "Growth hormone, however, causes A.D.H. (Anti-Diuretic Hormone) to go up.
      ADH is a very potent coronary constrictor which also constricts veins.
      It is produced starting in the hypothalamus. The nerve endings of certain
      neurons in the hypothalamus reach into the posterior pituitary, and ADH
      and oxicitocin come from the posterior pituitary. ADH can go up to 20
      times normal levels with fear, or anger, and stress. This can cause
      coronary constriction within minutes, and this can cause a massive heart
      attack.

      Growth hormone makes ADH go up, and as a direct effect of this, water
      retention goes up, which causes higher blood pressure. ADH is dose
      dependent of GH, which is why you have to drop the dose if blood pressure
      goes up too high, until your circulatory system adjusts to handle it.

      This is the only bad side effect of an otherwise very good dose of growth
      hormone.

      "Clonidine" is the safest high blood pressure medicine. It causes no side
      effects, and no impotency of any kind. It is indicated if you have high
      blood pressure due to ADH." - Big Doc


      - (from notes taken by Ellis)]




      > I was also surprised by a recent blood pressure test after taking rhgh
      > for 6 months. My blood pressure has always been in the very good
      > range of 110-120/70-80. With my most recent test, it was
      > 130/88. A subsequent test after that was 125/86.
      >
      > I was very surprised by this as I had read that one of the benefits of
      > hgh therapy was lowering of blood pressure if it is too high. I
      > certainly didn't expect my blood pressure to go up. This increase is
      > directly attributable to the hgh.
      >
      > Any MD's in the group have thoughts or experience with this ?
      >
      > DJ
      >
      > --- In Rejuvenation@yahoogroups.com, "Linda H. Wish" wrote:
      >
      >> Anonymous wrote to Ellis:
      >> BP WITH rHGH is about 134/80 BUT after dropping it for 7 days it goes
      >> down to about 116/67. Returns when I restart rHGH again.
      >>
      >> [I don't know how to interpret this. Can a doctor give us an
      >> opinion, please? - Ellis]
      >>
      >> I am not a doctor, but I will note a similar result!
      >>
      >> I have typically had low blood pressure - 110-120/70-80 when
      > healthy, sometimes much lower than that (95/65, supposedly typical of
      > our lower blood volume) while having chronic fatigue syndrome
      > the last 12 years.
      >>
      >> I have been on HGH for 3 months now, two months at two units, one
      > at four per day.
      >>
      >> [That is more than usual... and very unusual for your first 3
      > months... I suggest you drop your dose to 2 units every other day, for
      > a month or two... and continue to check your blood pressure... I THINK
      > it will drop... - Ellis]
      >>
      >> I was really surprised on my physician's visit last week to find it
      > at 140/90 and later back home at 135/85 a few times. I have dropped
      > other medications (which I think I still need. . . hoping that the HGH
      > had eliminated a need for them), but I did find the increased blood
      > pressure to be surprising, and disturbing, since they just
      > came out with the new guidelines suggesting treatment of anything over
      > 120/80.
      >>
      >> Linda
      >>
      >> [Your blood pressure is not out of sight... I don't think you are
      > in any danger... I think you should continue to take rHGH if your
      > physician also thinks so, but I suggest you lower the dose for a few
      > months, to give your circulatory system a chance to build up, and in
      > the meantime it might also help to lower your blood pressure.
      > - Ellis]
      >
    • Scott Brown
      Hi: I ve been on HgH now for 10 months. Starting about 3 months ago, I noticed that I had periods of elevated heart rate, especially after eating. I decided
      Message 2 of 12 , May 30, 2003
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        Hi:

        I've been on HgH now for 10 months.� Starting about 3 months ago, I noticed that I had periods of elevated heart rate, especially after eating.� I decided to get my blood pressure tested as well.� I've always had blood pressure in the 110/60 and up to 128/75 when agitated on rare occasion.� I was shocked to find out that it was going as high as 145/88.� I decided to get a blood pressure meter and see if there would be anything I could do to lower it.� I stopped HgH for a few weeks and it went back down to 115/70.� I also increased Calcium intake since I had run out of Calcium and went without it during that period, thinking that may have had something to do with it.�

        When I got back on HgH, I reduced the dose to only 1 IU per day instead of the 1.5 IU per day that I had been on.� My blood pressure has increased but is still below 130 systolic.�

        I've also noticed that my glucose response is much worse than before HgH.� For example, the same amount of carbohydrate that used to raise my glucose to 120 before, now raises it to 160 or more.�

        [Scott, this is very difficult for me to believe... There is so much chance for an error in your interpretation, that unless you had taken very many glucose blood tests, with precise measurements, and precise times to take the test, the results can vary greatly and all you have is an "impression". For example, a simple glass of orange juice can raise your glucose to 140 or 150 or 160 (depending on the size of the glass), and if you tested yourself 20 minutes after drinking the glass of orange juice the result could be "120" which would be very different than if you tested after 30 minutes, or 40 minutes... which could be 130, 140, or anything in between, etc.

        So for you to conclude that your glucose response is much worse after taking HGH than before HGH is really impossible, unless you have kept very accurate records of what you ate, at what time, how much, and when you took your blood tests.

        I do believe what you say about your blood pressure going up, and as Dave pointed out in a post earlier today, Big Doc recommended "clonidine" for that... - Ellis]

        I'm going to go off HgH for a month when I finish the vial that I'm on to see if that pattern reverses as well. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject?

        Scott

        At 08:10 PM 5/27/2003 -0400, you wrote:

        Anonymous wrote to Ellis:
        BP WITH rHGH is about 134/80 BUT after dropping it for 7 days it
        goes down to about 116/67.� Returns when I restart rHGH again.�

        [I don't know how to interpret this.� Can a doctor give us an
        opinion, please?� - Ellis]

        I am not a doctor, but I will note a similar result!

        I have typically had low blood pressure - 110-120/70-80 when healthy,
        sometimes much lower than that (95/65, supposedly typical of our lower blood
        volume) while having chronic fatigue syndrome the last 12 years.

        I have been on HGH for 3 months now, two months at two units, one at four per
        day.

        [That is more than usual... and very unusual for your first 3 months...
        I suggest you drop your dose to 2 units every other day, for a month or
        two... and continue to check your blood pressure... I THINK it will drop...
        - Ellis]

        I was really surprised on my physician's visit last week to find it at 140/90
        and later back home at 135/85 a few times. I have dropped other medications
        (which I think I still need. . .� hoping that the HGH had eliminated a need
        for them), but I did find the increased blood pressure to be surprising, and
        disturbing, since they just came out with the new guidelines suggesting
        treatment of anything over 120/80.

        Linda

        [Your blood pressure is not out of sight... I don't think you are in any
        danger... I think you should continue to take rHGH if your physician
        also thinks so, but I suggest you lower the dose for a few months, to give
        your circulatory system a chance to build up, and in the meantime it might
        also help to lower your blood pressure.� - Ellis]



      • cking001@nycap.rr.com
        ... Ellis, Is Big Doc s book still available from his site? I don t want to paypal bucks into a black hole. Chuck [Hello Chuck... It just so happens Big Doc
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 2, 2003
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          On Thu, 29 May 2003 23:58:53 -0400 (EDT), Ellis wrote:

          >[Thanks, Dave, for pointing this out. I copy and paste the relevant
          >part of that page below, Big Doc's Protocol For Taking HGH, which I
          >put together as a tribute to Big Doc, from notes taken by me in the
          >week that I was with him in Can Cun (about 8 months before his death
          >from a heart attack) and from e-mails he wrote to me, or posts to
          >Rejuvenation.

          Ellis,
          Is Big Doc's book still available from his site?
          I don't want to paypal bucks into a black hole.

          Chuck

          [Hello Chuck... It just so happens Big Doc gave me a draft copy
          of his book, and that was about 8 months before his death... I'm
          not sure if he ever published it, and he never mentioned that he
          published it here, on Rejuvenation, so I think that you wouldn't
          get it from his site, although maybe you can try and see if
          anybody answers... now that you asked, I looked for his book and...
          it has plenty of useful information! There is an interesting
          discussion of EDTA chelation, and more about anti-diuretic hormone,
          etc... So... I intend to put up a few pages by Big Doc when I
          have the time to do it, which I hope might be soon.

          As for Pay Pal and black holes... I have a whole site which
          I pay for from my pocket, to tell people of my bad experience
          with Pay Pal and to warn you about the dark side of Pay Pal. If
          you will look up "Pay Pal, scam, problem" on a search engine
          you will find literally dozens of sites to aire and discuss
          problems many people have had with Pay Pal, so... a word to
          the wise... do it before you get burned.

          http://www.paypalscams.org/

          - Ellis]
        • John Bullis
          Chuck, Ellis, and all; Big Doc s web site is NOT an operating site and the paypal will NOT work as his account is not affiliated with the site. I designed
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 3, 2003
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            Chuck, Ellis, and all;

            Big Doc's web site is NOT an operating site and the paypal will NOT work as his account is not�affiliated�with the site. I designed the site as a favor for�Big Doc to help him�supplement his cash flow. He decided that the book, health and fitness consultation would be�a way to get a little extra cash. The�chelation�kits�were suppose to be a joint effort between Doc and his girlfriend Kate. They were going to package kits that would contain three EDTA chelation IV infusions for something like $40.00 (US). The kit would have the powder EDTA,�IV bags including needles, etc. You just needed someone that knew how to put in the IV needle and you were in business at a fraction of the cost. Unfortunately, Doc passed just before the site was suppose to be uploaded to the browsers. You can't get to Doc's site unless you know the URL as I never uploaded the site to the browser or gave it meta tags.� I left the site up and as it was in fond memory of Doc. I still have the final book with all of the illustrations. Maybe the family wouldn't mind if it was to be released in one manner or another. I don't have any of their contact information any longer. But this is the status of Big Doc's web and book. But you're right Ellis; there is a lot of good information in the 100 pages Doc committed to paper.

            Best Regards,
            John

            [Hello John. So now I know how the site is still up. I wish that someday after I kick the bucket somebody would keep my pages up as you have done for Doc's pictures... Even being ALIVE, I have trouble keeping my site up if the people who host my site can't charge my card. It is really a hassle to pay them sometimes, for example after my debit card was lost and I cancelled it. I can imagine that a few days or months after my death (someday) all my pages will disappear from the internet because they can't charge my card $9.95 No money, no honey.

            Anyways... I have put up two new pages from Doc's draft "Feeling Great at 68" The first is about EDTA Chelation, and the second is about ADH (anti-diuretic hormone) which we discussed here very recently...

            http://www.rajeun.net/edta.html

            http://www.rajeun.net/adh.html

            Thanks for writing, John. - Ellis]

            >On Thu, 29 May 2003 23:58:53 -0400 (EDT), Ellis wrote:

            >
            > >[Thanks, Dave, for pointing this out. I copy and paste the relevant
            > >part of that page below, Big Doc's Protocol For Taking HGH, which I
            > >put together as a tribute to Big Doc, from notes taken by me in the
            > >week that I was with him in Can Cun (about 8 months before his death
            > >from a heart attack) and from e-mails he wrote to me, or posts to
            > >Rejuvenation.
            >
            >Ellis,
            >Is Big Doc's book still available from his site?
            >I don't want to paypal bucks into a black hole.
            >
            > Chuck
            >
            >[Hello Chuck... It just so happens Big Doc gave me a draft copy
            >of his book, and that was about 8 months before his death... I'm
            >not sure if he ever published it, and he never mentioned that he
            >published it here, on Rejuvenation, so I think that you wouldn't
            >get it from his site, although maybe you can try and see if
            >anybody answers... now that you asked, I looked for his book and...
            >it has plenty of useful information! There is an interesting
            >discussion of EDTA chelation, and more about anti-diuretic hormone,
            >etc... So... I intend to put up a few pages by Big Doc when I
            >have the time to do it, which I hope might be soon.
            >
            >As for Pay Pal and black holes... I have a whole site which
            >I pay for from my pocket, to tell people of my bad experience
            >with Pay Pal and to warn you about the dark side of Pay Pal. If
            >you will look up "Pay Pal, scam, problem" on a search engine
            >you will find literally dozens of sites to aire and discuss
            >problems many people have had with Pay Pal, so... a word to
            >the wise... do it before you get burned.
            >
            >http://www.paypalscams.org/
            >
            >- Ellis]
            >
            >
            >
            >

          • corange
            Hello Rejuvenation Group, My question: is oral DMPS or DMSA chelation therapy cycles just as effective as EDTA chelation therapy if followed by Myers
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 5, 2003
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              Hello Rejuvenation Group,

              My question: is oral DMPS or DMSA chelation therapy
              cycles just as effective as EDTA chelation therapy if
              followed by Myers Cocktail?.


              zed

              [Hello Zed. I don't know what is a "Myer's Cocktail"...
              Can you please tell us what it is? According to
              Big Doc, and Dr. Cranton too, oral chelation is not
              as effective as intravenous... for one thing, if it
              binds to metals in the intestinal tract, it might not
              get through the intestinal walls, and get stuck there.

              But I am not an expert on chelation, and perhaps somebody
              else knows better.

              - Ellis]


              --- John Bullis wrote:

              ---------------------------------


              Chuck, Ellis, and all;

              Big Doc's web site is NOT an operating site and the
              paypal will NOT work as his account is
              not�affiliated�with the site. I designed the site as a
              favor for�Big Doc to help him�supplement his cash
              flow. He decided that the book, health and fitness
              consultation would be�a way to get a little extra
              cash. The�chelation�kits�were suppose to be a joint
              effort between Doc and his girlfriend Kate. They were
              going to package kits that would contain three EDTA
              chelation IV infusions for something like $40.00 (US).
              The kit would have the powder EDTA,�IV bags including
              needles, etc. You just needed someone that knew how to
              put in the IV needle and you were in business at a
              fraction of the cost. Unfortunately, Doc passed just
              before the site was suppose to be uploaded to the
              browsers. You can't get to Doc's site unless you know
              the URL as I never uploaded the site to the browser or
              gave it meta tags.� I left the site up and as it was
              in fond memory of Doc. I still have the final book
              with all of the illustrations. Maybe the family
              wouldn't mind if it was to be released in one manner
              or another. I don't have any of their contact
              information any longer. But this is the status of Big
              Doc's web and book. But you're right Ellis; there is a
              lot of good information in the 100 pages Doc committed
              to paper.



              Best Regards,
              John

              [Hello John. So now I know how the site is still up.
              I wish that someday after I kick the bucket somebody
              would keep my pages up as you have done for Doc's
              pictures... Even being ALIVE, I have trouble keeping
              my site up if the people who host my site can't charge
              my card. It is really a hassle to pay them sometimes,
              for example after my debit card was lost and I
              cancelled it. I can imagine that a few days or months
              after my death (someday) all my pages will disappear
              from the internet because they can't charge my card
              $9.95 No money, no honey.
              Anyways... I have put up two new pages from Doc's
              draft "Feeling Great at 68" The first is about EDTA
              Chelation, and the second is about ADH (anti-diuretic
              hormone) which we discussed here very recently...
              http://www.rajeun.net/edta.html
              http://www.rajeun.net/adh.html
              Thanks for writing, John. - Ellis]

              >On Thu, 29 May 2003 23:58:53 -0400 (EDT), Ellis
              wrote:


              >

              > >[Thanks, Dave, for pointing this out. I copy and
              paste the relevant

              > >part of that page below, Big Doc's Protocol For
              Taking HGH, which I

              > >put together as a tribute to Big Doc, from notes
              taken by me in the

              > >week that I was with him in Can Cun (about 8 months
              before his death

              > >from a heart attack) and from e-mails he wrote to
              me, or posts to

              > >Rejuvenation.

              >

              >Ellis,

              >Is Big Doc's book still available from his site?

              >I don't want to paypal bucks into a black hole.

              >

              > Chuck

              >

              >[Hello Chuck... It just so happens Big Doc gave me a
              draft copy of his book, and that was about 8 months
              before his death... I'm not sure if he ever published
              it, and he never mentioned that he published it here,
              on Rejuvenation, so I think that you wouldn't get it
              from his site, although maybe you can try and see if
              anybody answers... now that you asked, I looked for
              his book and... it has plenty of useful information!
              There is an interesting discussion of EDTA chelation,
              and more about anti-diuretic hormone, etc... So... I
              intend to put up a few pages by Big Doc when I have
              the time to do it, which I hope might be soon.

              >As for Pay Pal and black holes... I have a whole site
              which I pay for from my pocket, to tell people of my
              bad experience with Pay Pal and to warn you about the
              dark side of Pay Pal. If you will look up "Pay Pal,
              scam, problem" on a search engine you will find
              literally dozens of sites to aire and discuss
              problems many people have had with Pay Pal, so... a
              word to the wise... do it before you get burned.

              >http://www.paypalscams.org/

              >- Ellis]

              ____________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
              http://calendar.yahoo.com
            • mlenker27@aol.com
              Ellis, Any thoughts on why it is that blood pressure tends to increase with age, even though production of GH decreases? Is there some other feature of normal
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 6, 2003
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                Ellis,

                Any thoughts on why it is that blood pressure tends to increase with age, even though production of GH decreases? �
                Is there some other feature of normal aging that tends to raise blood pressure more than the decrease in GH tends to decrease it?

                [I think it has to do with the deterioration of the circulatory system, caused both by increasing plaque, and damage to the kidneys because of bad eating habits for many years, which also decreases the length of the circulatory system, particularly capillaries.

                According to Dr. Richard Bernstein, who is the Father of Glucose Meter testing for diabetics, (I am the "son" of Richard Bernstein, so maybe he is also "the Grandfather of glucose testing for non-diabetics") he was able to reverse a lot of the damage to his body by lowering and normalizing glucose levels. This is great news for all of us, because it means that we can probably REVERSE some of the damage that we have done to our KIDNEYS if we do control our glucose levels. I suspect that if we help our kidneys to repair the damage they have suffered by eating poorly for many years, by eating CORRRECTLY now, then this will result in a better circulatory system, more oxygen circulating in our blood, less loss of capillaries, and thus lower blood pressure.

                Read Dr. Bernstein's story here:

                http://www.rajeun.net/diabetes.html

                and read my interpretation of glucose levels here:

                The Glucose Theory of Aging

                http://www.rajeun.net/glucose.html

                - Ellis]


                If so, then maybe we should look for a way to restore that factor to a youthful state, just as we do with GH.

                I suspect that it might be cortisol and related substances, which rise with age, and which raise blood pressure.

                [According to articles that have appeared in Life Extension Magazine, DHEA is probably the best way to decrease levels of cortisol. - Ellis]


                Does anyone have solid information on this, or other explanations? �And if cortisol is the issue, is there any practical way to decrease levels of cortisol?
                (I think Hydergine has been claimed to do this, but I don't know if it really works.)

                Mike L

                Linda:

                If you look at Ellis' pages, you will find an article from Big Doc. �
                He reported the same effect and said that taking clonidine .2mg would
                stop the anti diuretic hormone ADH from building up thus losing some
                water retention and dropping the blood pressure. �This does work. �

                Any thoughts/experience Ellis or group?

                Dave

                [Thanks, Dave, for pointing this out. �I copy and paste the relevant
                part of that page below, Big Doc's Protocol For Taking HGH, which I
                put together as a tribute to Big Doc, from notes taken by me in the
                week that I was with him in Can Cun (about 8 months before his death
                from a heart attack) and from e-mails he wrote to me, or posts to
                Rejuvenation. �

                See the whole page, which was very interesting for me to re-read:

                http://www.rajeun.net/bigdoc.html



              • corange
                ... Hello Rejuvenation Group, Myers Cocktail Hundreds of physicians around the U.S. use this therapy, which is largely unknown and not much written about. The
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 6, 2003
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                  > [Hello Zed. I don't know what is a "Myer's
                  > Cocktail"... Can you please tell us what it is?

                  Hello Rejuvenation Group,

                  Myers Cocktail

                  Hundreds of physicians around the U.S. use this
                  therapy, which is largely unknown and not much written
                  about. The Myers Cocktail is named for the late John
                  Myers, M.D., a Maryland physician who used intravenous
                  injections of nutrients to treat his patients.

                  Currently, the nutrient cocktail has been popularized
                  by Alan Gaby, M.D., president of the American Holistic
                  Medical Association and a physician who writes a lot
                  about nutritional factors in medicine.

                  The idea of the Myers Cocktail is that many illnesses
                  and conditions are associated with digestive
                  disturbances such as bloating, maldigestion and food
                  sensitivities and that people with such conditions may
                  not absorb many of the nutrients needed to return them
                  to good health. Also, many diseases cause the body to
                  use nutrients at a faster rate, or to require higher
                  amounts for proper healing. When nutrients are
                  injected intravenously, the digestion is bypassed.

                  Furthermore, the levels in the bloodstream are
                  temporarily increased so that the nutrients are
                  "coaxed" into the cells, and frequently into the
                  mitochondria where they are active. This temporary
                  boost frequently "kick-starts" the cells, so that
                  energy is produced more efficiently in them.

                  Many chronic conditions respond to a series of Myers
                  Cocktails. In my experience, they are useful in
                  fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and chronic
                  depression, where patients feel an energy boost
                  lasting days or weeks. In the case of fibromyalgia,
                  decreased pain can be observed. In other chronic
                  conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis and ulcerative
                  colitis, there is electron microscope evidence that
                  the gut "leaks" nutrients, and the injections help get
                  necessary nutrients into the cells. Chronic asthma and
                  other lung disease, congestive heart failure, and
                  chronic allergic problems can respond with more energy
                  and less symptoms. Patients who get sick constantly
                  with infections may find an increased immune response,
                  with less susceptibility to in acute situations such
                  as viral illnesses.


                  [Please tell us more about yourself and about your
                  experience with this cocktail. Are you a doctor, and
                  have you used it on your patients, or are you speaking
                  of your own personal experience as a patient (which is
                  also valid... I myself am not a doctor.) How did you
                  learn of this cocktail? - Ellis]

                  The usual composition of the Myers Cocktail is:

                  B complex...............................1 cc

                  Vitamin C...........................1-10 cc
                  or more, usually 222 mg/cc or 500 mg/cc

                  Magnesium.............................1-4 cc
                  either 20% chloride or 50% sulfate

                  Dexpanthenol (B5)......................1-2cc

                  Calcium................................1-4cc
                  (sometimes not given in cardiac problems or in older
                  patients)

                  Frequent additions are:

                  B12......................................1 cc

                  B6......................................1 cc

                  Adrenal Cortical Extract
                  (ACE)...................................1-2 cc


                  Glyceron (an extract of licorice called glycerrhizin)
                  ............................. 1-2cc

                  Glutathione (an anti-oxidant)...........1-2 cc

                  The latter three are not FDA approved and thus cannot
                  be imported by physicians across state lines for the
                  purpose of treating patients.

                  The injections are diluted to 20 or 30 cc, more if
                  there is increased vitamin C which tends to be thicker.

                  A butterfly needle is then inserted into a vein, and
                  the injection is given very slowly, at 1-2 cc per
                  minute. Side effects are remarkably rare and almost
                  always are limited to local irritation of the vein.

                  Allergy to the preservative in the nutrients must be
                  tested for. The most common sensations are heat and
                  flushing (a magnesium effect), and the taste of
                  vitamins soon after the injection is begun.

                  The injections are usually given 1-2 times per week, and
                  beneficial effects are usually felt by the fourth shot.
                  Many patients with chronic conditions choose to continue
                  the injections every 1-4 weeks or when they feel their
                  energy slipping.

                  Why aren't more physicians using this therapy with
                  wide applications and a strong record of safety? First
                  of all, most of them haven't heard of it. There are no
                  studies of the Myers Cocktail, though Spectrum Medical
                  Arts of Arlington, MA is planning to begin a study of
                  the cocktail in fibromyalgia this fall.

                  There are studies supporting the need for injectable
                  magnesium and other nutrients in asthma, heart disease,
                  and other chronic conditions.

                  Another reason is the bias in medicine against nutritional
                  treatments of illnesses, borne of the fact that
                  pharmaceutical companies support much of the research in
                  medical therapies, and no drug company will fund a study
                  looking at the effects of simple vitamin shots.

                  Also, there is a tendency to look for single ingredient
                  therapies (for instance, vitamin C for the common
                  cold) and the cocktail works better, in the opinion of
                  its proponents, than using the nutrients individually.

                  Finally, old habits die hard in medicine, and the
                  habit of reaching for a prescription pad for every
                  illness will die harder than most. However, the need
                  to look for safe, inexpensive therapies for chronic
                  illnesses is becoming urgent under managed care
                  insurance systems and it is possible that the Myers
                  Cocktail will be re-discovered as a good example of
                  this.

                  [O.K., thanks. I am going to print it out, and give it
                  to my doctor who gives me EDTA chelation, and I will ask
                  him to put me this "cocktail". When he gives me EDTA
                  chelation he also puts in various vitamins, but I am not
                  sure what they are. (My doctor in Mexico took a course in
                  EDTA Chelation with Dr. Cranton.) It appears to be all
                  good nutrients, and I think it can only be beneficial. I
                  have read a lot on injectible vitamin C, of which there
                  is a "big dose" here. Three stars for this post, which
                  I think is very interesting and might be of interest to
                  doctors on Rejuvenation who might want to try this
                  on their patients. - Ellis]

                  --- corange <zedricatu2@...> wrote:
                  > Hello Rejuvenation Group,
                  >
                  > My question: is oral DMPS or DMSA chelation therapy
                  > cycles just as effective as EDTA chelation therapy
                  > if followed by Myers Cocktail?.
                  >
                  >
                  > zed
                  >
                  > [Hello Zed. I don't know what is a "Myer's
                  > Cocktail"... Can you please tell us what it is?

                  > According to Big Doc, and Dr. Cranton too, oral chelation
                  > is not as effective as intravenous... for one thing, if it
                  > binds to metals in the intestinal tract, it might not
                  > get through the intestinal walls, and get stuck there.
                  >
                  > But I am not an expert on chelation, and perhaps
                  > somebody else knows better.
                  >
                  > - Ellis]
                  >
                  >
                  > --- John Bullis wrote:
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  > Chuck, Ellis, and all;
                  >
                  > Big Doc's web site is NOT an operating site and the
                  > paypal will NOT work as his account is
                  > not�affiliated�with the site. I designed the site as
                  > a
                  > favor for�Big Doc to help him�supplement his cash
                  > flow. He decided that the book, health and fitness
                  > consultation would be�a way to get a little extra
                  > cash. The�chelation�kits�were suppose to be a joint
                  > effort between Doc and his girlfriend Kate. They
                  > were
                  > going to package kits that would contain three EDTA
                  > chelation IV infusions for something like $40.00
                  > (US).
                  > The kit would have the powder EDTA,�IV bags
                  > including
                  > needles, etc. You just needed someone that knew how
                  > to
                  > put in the IV needle and you were in business at a
                  > fraction of the cost. Unfortunately, Doc passed just
                  > before the site was suppose to be uploaded to the
                  > browsers. You can't get to Doc's site unless you
                  > know
                  > the URL as I never uploaded the site to the browser
                  > or
                  > gave it meta tags.� I left the site up and as it was
                  > in fond memory of Doc. I still have the final book
                  > with all of the illustrations. Maybe the family
                  > wouldn't mind if it was to be released in one manner
                  > or another. I don't have any of their contact
                  > information any longer. But this is the status of
                  > Big
                  > Doc's web and book. But you're right Ellis; there is
                  > a
                  > lot of good information in the 100 pages Doc
                  > committed
                  > to paper.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Best Regards,
                  > John
                  >
                  > [Hello John. So now I know how the site is still
                  > up.
                  > I wish that someday after I kick the bucket somebody
                  > would keep my pages up as you have done for Doc's
                  > pictures... Even being ALIVE, I have trouble keeping
                  > my site up if the people who host my site can't
                  > charge
                  > my card. It is really a hassle to pay them
                  > sometimes,
                  > for example after my debit card was lost and I
                  > cancelled it. I can imagine that a few days or
                  > months
                  > after my death (someday) all my pages will disappear
                  > from the internet because they can't charge my card
                  > $9.95 No money, no honey.
                  > Anyways... I have put up two new pages from Doc's
                  > draft "Feeling Great at 68" The first is about EDTA
                  > Chelation, and the second is about ADH
                  > (anti-diuretic
                  > hormone) which we discussed here very recently...
                  > http://www.rajeun.net/edta.html
                  > http://www.rajeun.net/adh.html
                  > Thanks for writing, John. - Ellis]
                  >
                  > >On Thu, 29 May 2003 23:58:53 -0400 (EDT), Ellis
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > >[Thanks, Dave, for pointing this out. I copy and
                  > paste the relevant
                  >
                  > > >part of that page below, Big Doc's Protocol For
                  > Taking HGH, which I
                  >
                  > > >put together as a tribute to Big Doc, from notes
                  > taken by me in the
                  >
                  > > >week that I was with him in Can Cun (about 8
                  > months
                  > before his death
                  >
                  > > >from a heart attack) and from e-mails he wrote to
                  > me, or posts to
                  >
                  > > >Rejuvenation.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >Ellis,
                  >
                  > >Is Big Doc's book still available from his site?
                  >
                  > >I don't want to paypal bucks into a black hole.
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > > Chuck
                  >
                  > >
                  >
                  > >[Hello Chuck... It just so happens Big Doc gave me
                  > a
                  > draft copy of his book, and that was about 8 months
                  > before his death... I'm not sure if he ever
                  > published
                  > it, and he never mentioned that he published it
                  > here,
                  > on Rejuvenation, so I think that you wouldn't get it
                  >
                  > from his site, although maybe you can try and see if
                  >
                  > anybody answers... now that you asked, I looked for
                  > his book and... it has plenty of useful information!
                  >
                  > There is an interesting discussion of EDTA
                  > chelation,
                  > and more about anti-diuretic hormone, etc... So... I
                  >
                  > intend to put up a few pages by Big Doc when I have
                  >
                  > the time to do it, which I hope might be soon.
                  >
                  > >As for Pay Pal and black holes... I have a whole
                  > site
                  > which I pay for from my pocket, to tell people of my
                  >
                  > bad experience with Pay Pal and to warn you about
                  > the
                  > dark side of Pay Pal. If you will look up "Pay Pal,
                  > scam, problem" on a search engine you will find
                  > literally dozens of sites to aire and discuss
                  > problems many people have had with Pay Pal, so... a
                  > word to the wise... do it before you get burned.
                  >
                  > >http://www.paypalscams.org/
                  >
                  > >- Ellis]
                  >
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                • rafael villafane
                  VPX http://www.vpxsports.com makes a product called Methoxygen , that claims to lower cortisol. I started taking it and my cortisol levels did go down -
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 7, 2003
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                    VPX http://www.vpxsports.com makes a product called 'Methoxygen', that
                    claims to lower cortisol. I started taking it and my cortisol levels
                    did go down - coincidence?

                    [Did you measure cortisol by a blood test, and what were your results?
                    Thanks - Ellis]

                    hope this helps,

                    Rafael

                    On Friday, June 6, 2003, at 01:25 AM, mlenker27@... wrote:

                    > Ellis,
                    >
                    > Any thoughts on why it is that blood pressure tends to increase with
                    > age, even though production of GH decreases? †
                    > Is there some other feature of normal aging that tends to raise blood
                    > pressure more than the decrease in GH tends to decrease it?
                    >
                    > [I think it has to do with the deterioration of the circulatory
                    > system, caused both by increasing plaque, and damage to the kidneys
                    > because of bad eating habits for many years, which also decreases the
                    > length of the circulatory system, particularly capillaries.
                    >
                    > According to Dr. Richard Bernstein, who is the Father of Glucose Meter
                    > testing for diabetics, (I am the "son" of Richard Bernstein, so maybe
                    > he is also "the Grandfather of glucose testing for non-diabetics") he
                    > was able to reverse a lot of the damage to his body by lowering and
                    > normalizing glucose levels. This is great news for all of us, because
                    > it means that we can probably REVERSE some of the damage that we have
                    > done to our KIDNEYS if we do control our glucose levels. I suspect
                    > that if we help our kidneys to repair the damage they have suffered by
                    > eating poorly for many years, by eating CORRRECTLY now, then this will
                    > result in a better circulatory system, more oxygen circulating in our
                    > blood, less loss of capillaries, and thus lower blood pressure.
                    >
                    > Read Dr. Bernstein's story here:
                    >
                    > http://www.rajeun.net/diabetes.html
                    >
                    > and read my interpretation of glucose levels here:
                    >
                    > The Glucose Theory of Aging
                    >
                    > http://www.rajeun.net/glucose.html
                    >
                    > - Ellis]
                    >
                    >
                    > If so, then maybe we should look for a way to restore that factor to a
                    > youthful state, just as we do with GH.
                    >
                    > I suspect that it might be cortisol and related substances, which rise
                    > with age, and which raise blood pressure.
                    >
                    > [According to articles that have appeared in Life Extension Magazine,
                    > DHEA is probably the best way to decrease levels of cortisol. - Ellis]
                    >
                    >
                    > Does anyone have solid information on this, or other explanations?
                    > †And if cortisol is the issue, is there any practical way to decrease
                    > levels of cortisol?
                    > (I think Hydergine has been claimed to do this, but I don't know if it
                    > really works.)
                    >
                    > Mike L
                    >
                    > Linda:
                    >
                    > If you look at Ellis' pages, you will find an article from Big Doc. †
                    > He reported the same effect and said that taking clonidine .2mg would
                    > stop the anti diuretic hormone ADH from building up thus losing some
                    > water retention and dropping the blood pressure. †This does work. †
                    >
                    > Any thoughts/experience Ellis or group?
                    >
                    > Dave
                    >
                    > [Thanks, Dave, for pointing this out. †I copy and paste the relevant
                    > part of that page below, Big Doc's Protocol For Taking HGH, which I
                    > put together as a tribute to Big Doc, from notes taken by me in the
                    > week that I was with him in Can Cun (about 8 months before his death
                    > from a heart attack) and from e-mails he wrote to me, or posts to
                    > Rejuvenation. †
                    >
                    > See the whole page, which was very interesting for me to re-read:
                    >
                    > http://www.rajeun.net/bigdoc.html
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • rafael villafane
                    yes, from 20.7 mcg/dl in january to 11.4 in march -- in may it held at 11.3 (all tests were taken this year). i continue taking the product once every day.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 9, 2003
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                      yes, from 20.7 mcg/dl in january to 11.4 in march -- in may it held at
                      11.3 (all tests were taken this year). i continue taking the product
                      once every day.

                      rafael


                      On Saturday, June 7, 2003, at 10:56 PM, rafael villafane wrote:

                      > VPX http://www.vpxsports.com makes a product called 'Methoxygen', that
                      > claims to lower cortisol. I started taking it and my cortisol levels
                      > did go down - coincidence?
                      >
                      > [Did you measure cortisol by a blood test, and what were your results?
                      > Thanks - Ellis]
                      >
                      > hope this helps,
                      >
                      > Rafael
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