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Re: IGF-1 levels not as high as Dr. Klatz says it should be

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  • darrellf45
    Deb, Spironolactone is an anti-androgen (as well as a diuretic) and I expect that you are applying it topically to the scalp, right? If not, you should.
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 21, 2002
      Deb,

      Spironolactone is an anti-androgen (as well as a diuretic) and I
      expect that you are applying it topically to the scalp, right? If
      not, you should.

      Judging from you symptons and testosterone results, you are really
      converting your available testosterone to DHT (too much 5 alpha
      reductase). The solution is finasteride (Propecia). However, you
      can't take this if you are pregnant as it interferes with the male
      genital development of the fetus. But if you are not pregnant or are
      at risk of pregnency, have your doctor prescribe it.

      Also, your low testosterone may be the reason your IGF-1 is low for
      the amount of hgh you are taking.

      Don't take Arimidex; estrogen reduction is not the problem here. You
      may make the hair problem worse.

      --- In Rejuvenation@y..., Deborah Balas <deborah_@p...> wrote:
      > Also, my testosterone level was very low ---- 6. And, my DHEA was
      24. These levels are low because I am also fighting androgenic
      alopecia and use
      > Minoxydil, Spironolactone, and Saw Palmetto. I have been told not
      to take
      > DHEA because it can increase DHT levels. This is a complex
      problem. My skin
      > is getting thin, and I have been told that DHEA is important.
      >
      > [Try Arimidex also, in conjunction with DHEA. Arimidex will lower
      estrogen,
      > and lower estrogen might be just what you need. - Ellis]
    • Allyn A. Brizel
      Deb, I thought I would make a few comments. If I understand correctly you are currently using 3 units a day 5 days a week and are unhappy with a IGF-1 level of
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 22, 2002
        Deb,

        I thought I would make a few comments. If I understand correctly you
        are currently using 3 units a day 5 days a week and are unhappy with
        a IGF-1 level of 208. I have to tell you that there is definitely a
        subset of individuals out there mostly being women whom have a very
        difficult time with getting there IGF level elevated. In the female
        group I see this mostly if they are using oral estrogen, HRT/ birth
        control pills. Apparently estrogen by the "oral" route blocks the
        conversion of growth hormone into IGF in the hepatocytes. Thus for
        all practical purposes causes a state of hyposomatotropsim. Which
        then necessitates double the dose of hgh when compared to non
        estrogen treated women to achieve similar IGF levels. It has even
        been shown that oral estrogen blunts any elevation of GH/IGF, which
        one might expect following a bout of excerise.
        Thus if you are on HRT the preferred delivery system for estrogen
        would be the transdermal route since this hasn't been shown to have
        a negative impact on the GH/IGF levels. I would also have to say the
        fact that you are using spirolactone (potent antiandrogen), which
        has resulted in your low total testosterone, can be a negative
        impact on your skin resulting in the thinning you describe (though
        the problem is most likely multi-hormone in etiology). I would
        suggest you get off the oral spirolactone and saw palmetto and use
        topical anti-androgen formulation get a compounding pharmacy to make
        you up a 10% minoxidil, 3% spirolactone topical solution. Allow your
        natural systemic testosterone level to rise back to the normal
        range. Another suggestion for the treatment of androgenic alopecia
        you might also consider the use of proscar or propecia since it is
        the DHT that produces the hair loss not the testosterone. As for
        the use of "Arimidex" this is indicated only for the treatment of
        breast cancer and wouldn't advise this in any women otherwise. As
        for your concerns with DHEA if you are taking propecia you have no
        problem otherwise use Keto –7 DHEA that doesn't break down into
        testosterone or estrogen.

        In summary:
        >Don't be so fixated on the IGF-1 level be more concerned with how
        you feel (that goes for David also)
        >If you are currently using any form of oral estrogen switch to
        transdermal
        >Get off all the systemic anti-androgen use topical agents on the
        hair directly and use propecia or proscar to prevent the androgenic
        alopecia from worsening
        >You must balance "all" your hormones not just HGH. Estradiol,
        progesterone, testosterone and DHEA in balance work in harmony
        producing synergestic effects.
        >Don't even think about using arimidex

        Warm Regards,

        Allyn A. Brizel, M.D.
        Center for Clinical Age Management
      • Deborah Balas
        ... I m taking it orally. ... I am taking saw palmetto, how does that compare to finasteride? Thanks--
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 20, 2002
          darrellf45 wrote:

          > Deb,
          >
          > Spironolactone is an anti-androgen (as well as a diuretic) and I
          > expect that you are applying it topically to the scalp, right? If
          > not, you should.

          I'm taking it orally.

          >
          >
          > Judging from you symptons and testosterone results, you are really
          > converting your available testosterone to DHT (too much 5 alpha
          > reductase). The solution is finasteride (Propecia). However, you
          > can't take this if you are pregnant as it interferes with the male
          > genital development of the fetus. But if you are not pregnant or are
          > at risk of pregnency, have your doctor prescribe it.
          >

          I am taking saw palmetto, how does that compare to finasteride?

          Thanks--
        • Deborah Balas
          Dr. Brizel: Thank you so much for all the information you posted. I apologize for this late response - I didn t receive this mail until about a month ago and
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 7, 2002
            Dr. Brizel:

            Thank you so much for all the information you posted. I apologize for this
            late response - I didn't receive this mail until about a month ago and then I
            was traveling until this week.

            Actually I am taking 2 units a day for 5 days and then skipping Saturday and
            Sunday.

            I have some questions:





            "Allyn A. Brizel" wrote:

            > Deb,
            >
            > I thought I would make a few comments. If I understand correctly you
            > are currently using 3 units a day 5 days a week and are unhappy with
            > a IGF-1 level of 208. I have to tell you that there is definitely a
            > subset of individuals out there mostly being women whom have a very
            > difficult time with getting there IGF level elevated. In the female
            > group I see this mostly if they are using oral estrogen, HRT/ birth
            > control pills. Apparently estrogen by the "oral" route blocks the
            > conversion of growth hormone into IGF in the hepatocytes.

            Could you please explain, what are hepatocytes? How does estrogen block the
            conversion of growth hormone?


            > Thus for
            > all practical purposes causes a state of hyposomatotropsim.

            What is hyposomatotropism?


            > Which then necessitates double the dose of hgh when compared to non
            > estrogen treated women to achieve similar IGF levels. It has even
            > been shown that oral estrogen blunts any elevation of GH/IGF, which
            > one might expect following a bout of excerise.
            > Thus if you are on HRT the preferred delivery system for estrogen
            > would be the transdermal route since this hasn't been shown to have
            > a negative impact on the GH/IGF levels.

            What form and dose of transdermal estrogen. Currently I take .5 mg - 2 times a
            day (total 1.0 mg a day) I am also taking progesterone - 50 mg -- 1 tablet
            a.m., 2 tablets p.m. (total 150 mg a day)

            What about the progesterone?


            > I would also have to say the
            > fact that you are using spirolactone (potent antiandrogen), which
            > has resulted in your low total testosterone, can be a negative
            > impact on your skin resulting in the thinning you describe (though
            > the problem is most likely multi-hormone in etiology). I would
            > suggest you get off the oral spirolactone and saw palmetto and use
            > topical anti-androgen formulation get a compounding pharmacy to make
            > you up a 10% minoxidil, 3% spirolactone topical solution. Allow your
            > natural systemic testosterone level to rise back to the normal
            > range. Another suggestion for the treatment of androgenic alopecia
            > you might also consider the use of proscar or propecia since it is
            > the DHT that produces the hair loss not the testosterone.

            How do any side effects from propecia differ from that of Saw Palmetto? I'm
            curious because I was prescribed propecia but never did take it. I was told
            that I could take saw palmetto as an alternative. Have any studies been done
            on Saw Palmetto that you are aware of?


            > As for
            > the use of "Arimidex" this is indicated only for the treatment of
            > breast cancer and wouldn't advise this in any women otherwise. As
            > for your concerns with DHEA if you are taking propecia you have no
            > problem otherwise use Keto ?7 DHEA that doesn't break down into
            > testosterone or estrogen.

            Could you explain how Keto--7 DHEA is different than DHEA and how it doesn't break down into testosterone or estrogen?

            Where can I get this?

            Again, many thanks for all this valuable information.

            Deborah

            >
            >
            > In summary:
            > >Don't be so fixated on the IGF-1 level be more concerned with how
            > you feel (that goes for David also)
            > >If you are currently using any form of oral estrogen switch to
            > transdermal
            > >Get off all the systemic anti-androgen use topical agents on the
            > hair directly and use propecia or proscar to prevent the androgenic
            > alopecia from worsening
            > >You must balance "all" your hormones not just HGH. Estradiol,
            > progesterone, testosterone and DHEA in balance work in harmony
            > producing synergestic effects.
            > >Don't even think about using arimidex
            >
            > Warm Regards,
            >
            > Allyn A. Brizel, M.D.
            > Center for Clinical Age Management
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